| Author | Message | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 192 Registered: 9-2002 |
8^) thanks for the kind words Modman! I wish I could sit in a nice CL600 let alone drive it...I would love to see a nice benz. ::and now this thread ends:: ...maybe... | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 437 Registered: 11-2001 |
Omar, your comments are acceptable to me. You are right on the S class and E series,I don't like the interior of the S500 that much. The comparison to a 500 and 600 are close in looks except the V12 is silky smooth and not course like the 8cyl. and 600 has a better touch in leather treatments esp. my CL600 all leather wrapped including headliner, the fit and finish is superb, if you haven't seen one it's a must see and drive to appreciate and also the active suspension is awesome too. After a hard days work, it's a smooth ride home. The Cl600 is my favorite in the Benz line up and when the CL55 comes out, I want to see that also. But yes a persons preference is their best preference which fits their needs so it's all good in tha hood.. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 187 Registered: 9-2002 |
BTW we know the bmw vs mercedes is as beaten to death topic ferrari vs lambo..... so lets not go there  | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 186 Registered: 9-2002 |
I was j/k about MB sucking, and bmw being king, in fact if you look in off topic, I was looking to get a SL500 If I had alot of $ I would definately get a nice C600 or the new SL600...thats if I had alot of $ though. As far as BMWs, they are my second fav company though (after Ferrari of course) My first and still fav. sedan was and still is a 98 750iL-"Katrina" as I call her. I also have a '82 633CSi -"Jessica". (IMHO, a modern classic) As far as fit and finish, my father's friends all have S500s and the intrior quality does NOT compare to my E38 in any way. Sitched leather covers everything, the plasitc wood, thougth like MB's plasitic, doesnt look good up close, but the treatment is VERY tasteful in the car, I could not ask for better....it is better than the my last Range rover(for some reason ppl claim that it had a nice wood treatment-something I didnt see at all.) I perfer the handling of my car to the S500s as well (though I only drove the S 2x, I liked my car better -though my car has a lot more bodyroll. NO WAY can you compare the interiors of the E65 to my 7....you are right the E65 is way to much plastic, just like old E38 740s and yes, S500s (I cannot comment on 600s, never been in one, but have heard wonderful things of them) For me, I think the intrior is more comfortble in my 750 compared to the S500s I rode in as well. I have not had any issues with my car now either in 3 years save regualer maintainceon any car , and the best way of descibing my driving is that 'I see redline more often I change CD tracks' ) I guess its a price issue as well to a degree. the E38 750 depreciates very quickly over the first few years, and when I got mine (used of course) it cost slightly more than an equal mile/year/conditon 740..or a new fully loaded 3 series...on the used market its not a bad deal for what you get IMO. I love my Katrina, though many asked why I didnt get a S500 like the rest, the fact is that I really have an affinity for the car. I drove a 3 series once...it was like a little version of my car 'trimmed down' I liked it, but still, I would take my Kat over one anyday.. As for my 633, I am converting it into either a 650 (droping a M73 V12 into it) or a track car, or both, depending on how much $ I have in the summer after my other cars are all accounted for as far as maintaince and such. BTW I compare S500s because besides them the only cedes I have been in was a C somthing or another. At the end of the day this is my opinion, and one thing no one can change no matter how much they try is love for bmws and ferraris. Its just me! PS no flamin Katrina now, she is my baby. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1179 Registered: 8-2002 |
Oh crap, i have no idea what you just said... | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 247 Registered: 9-2002 |
Because the torqe converter slips | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1176 Registered: 8-2002 |
Why the hell is it called a slushbox...? | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 244 Registered: 9-2002 |
An automatic transmision | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1173 Registered: 8-2002 |
Um... what's a slush box...? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 435 Registered: 11-2001 |
Omar, you have to consider that Mercedes are more luxury orientated with slushboxes that can perform better than most manual trans. vehicles in the luxury sports category. BMW don't make a slushbox model in any way near a close enough category to compare except maybe the new 03 7 series which was nowhere near the performance of my CL and the BMW of new have too much plastic in the car which shows the cheapness of the cars they are now currently doing. I used to have an E36M3 which is has less plastic and feels more solid built than the new current model although I do like the new body style but the build quality in cheap plastic parts throughout just reminds me of what Honda did to all their new cars, at first sight it shows cheapness. Besides when you get into the high dollar range in the BMW or Mercedes, the fit and finish on the Benz is better plus there are more options in the Benz and besides I love the looks in the overall styling as far as CL and SL goes and you gotta admit they do look cool and perform quite well overall. I'm sure most would agree that Mercedes is the most desirable luxury car in the upper range over any BMW kinda like Ferrari in the Exotic car area. Very few may argue but my comments are through experience with these types of vehicles through ownership and with the business that I am in. There is no best car out there but there is most desirable and between the BMW and Mercedes as far a luxury goes I think we know which is more desirable in the upper range. Now in the lower range yes the BMW 3 series is not bad. By the ways when I said Mercedes rules it was just for fun not saying it is the king of cars as there really can never be a king of all cars since there are no cars built on this planet that has everything in it that can please everyone but it is my preference in luxury sports over any car in the world to this day. Maybe you can name one I don't know about but that would be very hard to find quite yet. I've not spent one penny on maintenance on any of my Benzes since I've owned one and you cannot beat that. My Benz dealer takes care of all the charges for parts and labor on the regular tune ups and even took care of an out of warranty issue also on my 97 E class and other than that, no problems and I drive them hard as my sports cars. What Bimmers do you have Omar? anyway hope this helps ya... take it easy | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2002 |
MERCEDES RULE Dude, cedes suck....BMW is KING! | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 434 Registered: 11-2001 |
Yes this is freakin silly, like some of the other sites that talk of trashin other makes of cars but hey it's startin to be somewhat entertaining, but to a certain degree of course. Hey, my first Ferrari was an X/19 and so was my second before my third, it sure was slow and needed to be worked on often and it sucked but I enjoyed driving it like a go cart since it literally was but that's long gone but it truly was my wannabe Ferrari since I was PO back then but hey now my dreams have come a reality, very exciting when I got my first Ferrari. Can I say this? MERCEDES RULE! He He...I'm prepared, got my asbestos suit on.... | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2002 |
With the theme of this thread seemingly spilling over into other threads, I guess it is time to call it a day. Thank you all, for the hot debate. It has been quite an experience. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 241 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tenney, I see your point. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2001 |
Agree KCCK. Apples and oranges. On the other hand, a Supra TT J/K vs. a Ferrari LOL is a more suitable comparo. Maybe through in a smiley face or two and we're talking some fine internet jousting. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 234 Registered: 10-2002 |
Racing a Supra TT J/K with a Ferrari? What is the point in the first place? | ||
| yasir saifullah (Yasir)
New member Username: Yasir Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2002 |
So has anyone ever raced a Supra TT J/K. Later, Yasir | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1013 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, Matt... i agree, i've heard more than my share of put-downs and insults and accusations and assumptions and dares and offers and comparisons and quotes and scoops and wings and stickers and spoilers and histories and heritage and on and on and on... Matt, you trouble-maker, please try and keep the controversy to a minimum... Oh, hey, did you read that magazine article about the concept Ferrari with those weird-looking scoops and wings that lapped the 'ring in 12 seconds, and it's powered by a hybrid Lamborghini-Viper engine...? It's got a tractor-racing history with an F1 heritage and has these special air intake scoop thingies that filter the air and magically reproduce it into NOS, which is then filtered into the engine where there's a special on/off switch for those times when it's being used in 1/4 miles races... The emblem on the back of this 21.8 liter 26 cylindar engined-car is a prancing bull with snake eyes... It was the cover story in the latest issue of Supra Daily, did you catch it...? | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Junior Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well I just got back to work today and see my creation has not fizzled out yet. Rob pull it whenever you are ready partner. Des I am sorry buddy but it's time we let this one go. It has been funny at times and interesting but it's time we move on. I think my next post will be... Which is better Lamborghini or Ferrari. JUST KIDDING!!!!!! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1011 Registered: 8-2002 |
No. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1347 Registered: 8-2002 |
743 posts about Lambos.....Are we done yet? | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 289 Registered: 4-2001 |
Allen, If you don't have any track experience you can leave the NOS and plug wires on, I'll leave my Ohlins Racing shocks on and you come over here to a handling track and I'll purprise you... Ciao Peter | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 230 Registered: 10-2002 |
I love this thread. As I have said earlier, it is great to hear Ferrari fans defending the marque and standing up to be counted. Is this not the hottest thread on the great "Ferrari v Lamborghini" debate at this point in time? | ||
| Peter Polasek (Peterp)
New member Username: Peterp Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2002 |
> Go ahead and make tractor comments, that would > be like me resorting to calling Ferraris Fiats. Allan, I really wasn't trying to add fuel to the fire (it doesn't need it), but with the discussion of racing history, I couldn't help mentioning the tractor roots as an attempt to add some sorely needed levity. My personal view, as stated, is that the lack of a racing history doesn't preclude the Lambo from being a great car. I haven't driven a Lambo, so I discount my own opinion about which car is better (though I prefer the Ferraris on a subjective basis). | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 226 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey Rob Is this a record thread? 707 post so far. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1004 Registered: 8-2002 |
No, but my ass is... (Oh, wait...! Wrong punch line...! Damnit...!) | ||
| jr vee (Jrv_)
New member Username: Jrv_ Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2002 |
Attention, I get way too much in my 328 so much I dont like to drive it too much, wow Allan you had a girl blow you a kiss BFD, I've had plenty of fine ones chase me, flash me from limos and generally stare at me till im blue in the face when I pull up to get a coffee or whatever, while at a gas station a guy was snapping pics of my 328 like he was the paparazzi, dont think your Lamboweenie is exclusive to that, a Viper will barely get the time of day, yes I talking to you Mikey in your UPS truck you wish you could slap me around You LAMBOWEENIE, VIPER guys are a legend in your own minds | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 224 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey DES You did it, The big 1000 post.Are your fingers sore? Mojo | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1002 Registered: 8-2002 |
i think this is the funniest thing i've ever heard, to date: "When I stand in my garage at night I can hear Henry's young italian wife wispering in his ear "A Ford will never beat Ferrrari" and taste the 72 Million dollars he spent to prove her wrong..." "It's tough to admit that you bought a car because it gave you a boner, or because all of the chicks at Hooters like it." John, i have no problem admitting that i want a car 'cause it gives me a boner, but it gives me a boner BECAUSE it's a performance car... & the chicks at Hooters would still dis me, even if i pulled up in a Diablo or Modena, so the sex factor has no play, for me (no pun intended)... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 261 Registered: 6-2002 |
Just read a great quote in a article on the Diablo Sv. "If Maranello's motors move with a delicacy worthy of Baryshnikov, then Sant' Agata's engines are Tyrell Davis, blasting a hole past those wimpy ballerinas!" | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2002 |
Now we know why Ford did it, refering to [James Quote]When I stand in my garage at night I can hear Henry's young italian wife whispering in his ear "A Ford will never beat Ferrari" and taste the 72 Million dollars he spent to prove her wrong... [End Quote] I thought is what a major and expensive move for a company like Ford to undertake ... A debate with the wife makes much more sense. I wonder what the mood of the house was like after the win BTW: John Whelan great post and the nail has firmly been hit. Pete | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2001 |
P.S. I look in Dupont every month for a Diablo VT. Should make a nice daily driver. | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2001 |
I think that the root of the problem is that you have to admit why you bought the car in the first place. Anyone that buys a performance car does so because it has a performance pedigree. A Ferrari certainly does. In order to sell performance cars,you in fact have to prove performance. In the case of Lambo, they build a car that on paper has great specifications. It is a sale of specifications. Lambo certainly makes cool cars, but that does not mean that they should win races. Hence, the opinion by Ferrari owners that Lambo is a car for posers. I'm certain that Lambo would like to advertise the fact that they have won many races. At least they tried. Every other performance car company does the " Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday." Anyone that would buy a Lotus certainly understands the importance of pedigree. It's tough to admit that you bought a car because it gave you a boner, or because all of the chicks at Hooters like it. I'm sure that the Supraforums will pick up on the fact that there is a Lambo with NOS in Az that wants to race. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 298 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dan That is a beautiful piece of history. That is the one that turned a 6:11 at Nurburgring. William should take a look at it as he's looking for a 962 and that one is very special. The P car I want is a 917. (Showing my age again) but before I go after one I'm going to finish my P4 so I can restage LeMans 1967 (in my mind) as I alternately drive that and my MK-IV into the sunrise. David You are correct. Lap speed was 135 adverage for 24 hours including pit stops for the winning MK-IV. Mine was a little slower as McLaren had to retrieve the tail which blew off on the Mulsanne. (The dent he made in the tub sill when he threw off his helmut and ran off after the tail is still there) For me it is the heritage, the history, the stories. When I stand in my garage at night I can hear Henry's young italian wife wispering in his ear "A Ford will never beat Ferrrari" and taste the 72 Million dollars he spent to prove her wrong... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 260 Registered: 6-2002 |
Im saying that from all the figures, even the ones Ferrari owners here have compiled Lambos do just as well, if not better than the Ferraris. As i said, is there a Ferrari road car in the top ten for record laps at the Nurburgring? NO. Has a Ferrari been able to accomplish anything in THE ONE LAP OF AMERICA event, which puts cars on various tracks and includes a cross country trip? NO. When automotive journalists get together for Ferrari/Lambo compros, why do the Lambos pretty much always come out on top? Go ahead and make tractor comments, that would be like me resorting to calling Ferraris Fiats. Excuse me, is that a 308 or an X/19? | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mark: I am flexible. I often rent it privately with one of my best friends from Atlanta who has a 512TR. I am certainly willing to work around your and others schedules. Usually, I rent it on a Friday. The maximum number which I would like to keep it to would be say 5 or 6 cars so that way the track is not congested, good comraderie, etc. I am open to suggestions. It usually makes for a nice long weekend as Savannah has some nice bars/restaurants. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 334 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mark, I think an offer like this deserves a thread of it�s own. When are you thinking? It�s a long drive, but it�s a fun track too. I'm down for my annual winter upgrades, but if it�s late enough, I�d be interested. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2002 |
Doesn't TORO have a new SV model out this year? | ||
| Peter Polasek (Peterp)
New member Username: Peterp Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2002 |
Real-world experience holds a lot more weight than comparisons based on magazine articles, so I find the Lambo insight from a Ferrari/Lambo owner interesting. Conclusions from any individual, even based upon real-world experience, are still just opinions. If every one of us that had the exact same seat time in the exact same cars, we would still walk away with a completely different set of opinions that we firmly believe are gospel. It's impossible to say that one is categorically better than the other. The Ferrari racing history is nice, but it only modestly influences my decision about which car to buy. I do believe that the production cars gain some benefit from the racing program, but it doesn't mean that a car can't be good if the manufacturer doesn't choose to race. For all the Lambo critics out there who absolutely MUST see a racing pedigree to be satisfied, you needn't look any further than Lamborghini's original roots as a tractor company where their early products routinely blew away Snappers and Toros alike on any acre of land you'd care to mow -- any field, any time baby! (Sorry Allan, but I know you don't care about pedigree anyway). Lets face it, the only absolute in the automotive world is that, of all the mid-engine, four-seater cars in the world, the Mondial is the best (I think). | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2002 |
By the way, if any Southeast F-Car owners would be interested in putting together a day at Roebling Road let me know. It is a fun, generally safe track and the rental fee is reasonable. I would cover the basic fee which is about $2K and that covers 2 cars and the EMS/Fire guys, Additional cars are extra but if anyone is interested I can get an updated fee schedule. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2002 |
This is really getting good!! Now I have to keep my mouth shut but Allan can spew his inflammatory pro-Lambo remarks at will! Sorry you won't take me up on my offer....could have been fun! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 663 Registered: 12-2001 |
Man, i hadn't really paid much attention to this thread, until i saw another thread just now, complaining about this one. (Thanks,Bruce). Anyway, i just have one question for allan f. and i pose it with the acknowledgement that i am actually quite fond of Lambos, particularly the older ones: you seem to be taking positions about the overall performance of your car, including its braking and handling, as well as its straight line performance, but you apparently admit that you have absolutely no experience on racing tracks, is that right? | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mark, can I come with my Europa??? You'll smoke me bad on a 2 mile track but I'd love to drive around it at full bore. I think I would be about 120 MPH at the end of the straight so I'll stay out of your way. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2002 |
Allan, I'll race your Lambo (or any Lambo or Ferrari for that matter) in my Mazda people mover, then you do not have to worry about loosing ... you can leave the NOS on though, if you are worried . You name the Sydney street and I'll be there Come on Allan take them on ... or is the 'Do not race (real races, not whimpy street races) this product' part of the ownership agreement with Lambos. Man this thread is great fun ... but I will just take the magazine numbers as the best reference ... . It is a shame that we will not be able to get you guys together, probably have a great time ... USA is just too big I guess. Pete | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 258 Registered: 6-2002 |
Pathetic? Because i wont truck my car across the country to meet some fool i dont even know? Please, keep your mouth shut. Or like i said, come on down to Arizona. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2002 |
Allan: I thought that would be your response. Pathetic. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2002 |
Roebling is a pretty fun track. I've never had much luck winning there, but it's fun. I like NHIS better because it's tighter with a couple good elevation changes, very difficult, but roebling makes #2 in my book. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 256 Registered: 6-2002 |
You also forget i read this list for its Ferrari insight and i own one. Lets not talk about clutches lasting in Ferraris. Mark, maybe you should ask Adam to take you up on that offer. He HAS some track experience and according to you guys his Viper is also worthless for cornering and stopping. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 255 Registered: 6-2002 |
Peter, I pretty much drive my cars daily. My 87 Countach, had over 70,000 on the clock, on original clutch, motor had never been out of the car. My 92 Diablo was also on its original clutch but i only owned it for a year. My 98, is also on its 1st clutch, and as of now its still perfect. Im not really worried about it since my friend has put over 40,000 on his nos injected Diablo with no problems either.Several members on the Lambolist have recorded even higher mileage on their cars. I agree on the Jalpa vs 328, debate, i prefer the 328. But please, id expect a clutch in a 180rwhp Ferrari like yours to last forever. As to trucking my car out to a race course, ive already stated that i have no track experience. Why dont you bring your car here, ill disconnect the nos, unplug a couple of spark plug wires, and ill race you in a straightline on 10 cylinders?Ok, fine 8 cylinders.lol So how about those timing belts? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 995 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mark, if he declines, will you pay for me & my Sentra...? i'll race you in anything, i don't care... | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2002 |
Allan: Care to back up your assertions with actions? I will make you an offer: I will pay to have your Lamborghini transported by enclosed transport through someone like Passport to Roebling Road in Savannah Georgia, pay to rent the track privately and you and I can go out and simply see who is faster around the 2 mile track. It is a good combination of slow turns, fast sweeping turns and fairly high top speed at the end of the front straight.(My F512M would reach near 160MPH in my amateur hands there). You should surely be able to whip my ass since my "underperforming" 512M only has 500HP as it is currently set up. I am certainly no track junkie but have excercised my 355 there a few times and a 512TR before that. This gives you an opportunity to see if your car is as great as you say and show those of us who love Ferraris that we are all wet. I await your answer. | ||
| David White (Dwhite)
Junior Member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2002 |
James, the 223 speed is for the Mulsanne(sp) straight, right?. Not a lap speed. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Junior Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 179 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mr. Glickenhaus: It's for sale: http://www.carclassic.com/html/CW49.htm Take a peek. --Dan | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 295 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Ford MK-IV is the " The Ford that beat Ferrari" It remains the only car made in America to have won the 24 hours of LeMans. Mine finished 4th overall driven by Bruce McLaren and Mark Donohue. It's sister car, which is in the Henry Ford Museam finished 1st. McLaren put my car on the pole 3:22 223MPH. Search P4, Lola T70, Duesenberg. All of my cars are or will be, street driven. I've put 20,000 street miles on my MK-IV. Des you've got to search... Best | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Junior Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des, If I had known this thread was going to end up like this I never would have even asked. There is NO WAY to win this arguement really. Everyone has there opinions and I don't think anyone is going to change there mind from reading thread. All I've gotten besides a few good stories is that Allen likes Lambos, everyone here likes Ferrari and I like both. There is nothing wrong with a debate but when it becomes arguing and name calling that crosses the line. I love this site but this thread is getting waaaaaaay too crazy for me to follow anymore. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 990 Registered: 8-2002 |
"Twisty roads are fun but not THAT fun!! LOL" Ken, i have to disagree, i'll take a twisty road in a well-oiled sports car ANYDAY over a woman... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 989 Registered: 8-2002 |
James, i'm blown away... was it your car, specifically that beat Ferrari...? That's such an awesome car to even look, let alone to have because of what it's done... Now THAT'S a piece of history... James, i know other people already asked you, and i understand there's no other car of this specific caliber and i remember you mentioned to me one other time, some of the rare cars you have, but could you enlighten us to what else is behind that Wizard Of Oz curtain of yours...? i think we could all benefit from knowing just what an astounding collection you have... | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 288 Registered: 4-2001 |
Allan, have you changed clutch yet? Prepare for a $7500 bill. And it will come sooner than you can imagine. I drive my Ferrari 8000 miles a year. 3-4 trackdays. When we come to the handling department it's a well-known fact that almost all sportscarpeople that Lambos are quite mediocre especially compared with Ferrari. Lambo survive only by power, not handling. A friend who has driven my 328 a few times tested a Lambo Jalpa. He came back laughing... Ciao Peter | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 619 Registered: 10-2001 |
Well Allen, you got me there! I suppose the Lambo gets the girls and the Lotus is for the twisty roads. Wish I had a Lambo for those lonely Saturday nights. Twisty roads are fun but not THAT fun!! LOL | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 253 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ken, I own a 2000 Lotus TT. I love it. Martin, some people are very close minded. I want to experience all cars, as all have different strengths and weaknesses. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 294 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/132929/165091.html?1041951561 | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 617 Registered: 10-2001 |
Well, Lambos and Ferrais are nice but EVERYONE knows that Lotus' are the best. We hide behind John Player cigarettes and Evil Midget designers. No Lambo can beat my Europa in AutoX, which is F1 for poor people. No one ever passes in F1 anyway, and you actually have to turn the car right and left. Turning at speed is fun; you should try it one of these days. You also have to be in the right gear at the right time in a real sports car. In a Lambo you can be in any gear and be fast. That's driving? So sell that Lambo and buy a REAL car like a 30 year old Europa! You'll have enough left over to start a Lambo site. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3568 Registered: 5-2001 |
Allan, gheez, I will refuse to read this whole thing. I personally love the look of the lambo. It is agreat car and you are right, it will stop fast as a Ferrari and will accellerate just as good as all the other Ferraris in its class. I do not quite understand all the resentment against Lambo. They are neighbors and most Lambo owners are also Ferrari owners. Ferrari has a deeper history in racing but Lambo has a great history of pushing the envelope further and further. Some of the most outragous designs like the countach have been actually manufactured where other manufacturers were stuck in their old proven designs. Somehow I am a little bias. My mechanic is a factory trained Lamborghini mechanic so I see them all the time and know a lot of owners here in So Fla. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 252 Registered: 6-2002 |
James that is awesome! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 987 Registered: 8-2002 |
James, what is that...? Do you drive it...? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 293 Registered: 10-2002 |
That's why I bought mine  The one we both have to worry about is the 1983 Porsche 956: 6:11 | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 251 Registered: 6-2002 |
Lambos=for people who like speed Ferraris=for people to hide behind F1 victories | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2001 |
Did we turn into a Lambo list? With apologies to the owners, I always felt the Contach and later Lambos were for the gold chain crowd, while Ferraris were for the enthusists. The Muria was supposed to compete with the Daytona as a world class car and is in my opinion an all time beauty, but they were very poorly designed and assembled. It was a failure for them at the time. After that, Lambo went the straight line power and bizarre body route while Ferrari contiuned to build streeable race cars. It's like comparing tangerines to clementines. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 985 Registered: 8-2002 |
This is getting ugly... What happened to the stories...? C'mon, people, stories... STORIES...! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 250 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ok, so Niki Lauda drove a formula 1 race car a long time ago. We're talking street cars. Are there any Ferraris listed in the top ten, top 15? I didnt think so. What happened when Ford met Ferrari at Lemans? Maybe we should all buy Fords for the Heritage. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 292 Registered: 10-2002 |
Alan In 1975 when the Nurburgring was 2km longer and much twistier than it is today a Ferrari turned a 6:58. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 249 Registered: 6-2002 |
For all you track time guys: Also just spoke to the Lambo Dealer, and according to them, the new Baby Lambo, has been clocked 6 seconds faster than the Murcielago around the Nurburgring. That put it in the 7.4X range. Bye bye Ferrari! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think you guys really need to get off the Lambo for straighline speed only dialogue. The Lambo will stop, and turn just as well, if not better than any direct competing Ferrari. As for Ferrari building better cars than Lambos, well again, i doubt that. Also, who here has a 5 year old Ferrari that they actually drive? How many times have you changed the belts so far? What have your maintenence costs been so far? Mine have been "0". And thats on a car i beat on and spray nos. As for opinions, regular peoples opinions, like you and i, lets see the Lambo Muira was recently voted the Most Beauitiful Car EVER by automotive designers, and the Diablo was voted by the Public as the Car of the Millenium in the Dupont Registry. Again just peoples opinions, like yours and mine. Comparing a Fiat to a Ferrari is as silly as saying a new Lambo is a Vw. The new Pagani Zonda C12S, has absolutely no history whatsoever, would i take one over ANY Ferrari? Lamborghini? You better believe i would. Also, i never jumped into this thread saying Lambos are better than Ferraris. I stated i had raced Ferraris in my Lambo and won. That sparked the Ferrari superiority commentary, and so the arguing began. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 227 Registered: 10-2002 |
I agree. This is Ferrarichat, after all. I am not happy about people trying to trash Ferraris just because some other cars may happen to go faster in a straight line. If straight-line speed is the only criteria, I do not think that the trophy would ever go to Lamborghini, either. At the end of the day, Ferrari wins races, not Lamborghini. Since the Lambos cars are specifically built for the purpose of going one-up on Ferraris, I am not even sure that we can call these extreme creatures "production cars" in the normal sense of the words. By "production cars", do we not have to take into account daily drivability and mannerism as well? I think Ernesto has defended Ferrari well. I enjoy reading his posts, no matter what. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ernesto's point is well-taken. Yes. opinions are like rectums...we all have one. The point is that this thread started off as a simple question regarding whether any Ferrari owners have raced a Lamborghini....period. However, it has deteriorated largely due to inflammatory remarks by people like Allan who happen to like Lamborghinis better than Ferraris. Again, that was NOT the question being asked. If you want to drive a Lamborghini, fine. But don't expect the Ferraristi/Tifosi who dearly love the Red Cars to enjoy listening to someone/anyone talk ad-nauseum about how our cars "underperform", or that Ferrari rests on its F1 victories to compensate for deficiencies in its street cars. I know Allan is likely one of those guys who likes to brag about NOS, straight line speed, etc. That is not what a true sports car or sports car enthusiast is interested in. Maybe thats the point. Lamborghinis are geared toward a different audience. Maybe Allan will someday actually take his car to the track....then the education in racing heritage will become evident as his Diablo is eaten alive. Ernesto, keep up the good work!! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 977 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ernesto, i've held out long enough... You seem to have a real hard on for Lamborghini, mentioning their "scoops and stickers and spoilers and wings" in almost everyone of your posts... No one here is saying that Lamborghini is better than Ferrari, some people are just saying that they think some aspects of Lamborghini are better than some aspects of Ferrari... That you think Ferrari is better than Lamborghini is merely an opinion- i happen to agree with you, but you seem to take it personal and you shouldn't... No one came to FerrariChat to preach the Lamborghini gospel, Matt Lamotte just asked a question because of Lamborghini holds a similar title to Ferrari, as far as exoticacy goes (exoticacy? there's that non-word again...) There's no question, Ferrari speaks for itself, but so does Lamborghini... Like i said, i agree with you that Ferrari is better than Lamborghini, but what does that really mean...? My opinion is according to my own personal preferences and your opinion is to your preferences... Allan's opinion is just as valid as yours or mine or Mike's, with his Viper ( )... In Allan's opinion, Lamborghini is better than Ferrari and he's right, 'cause it's his opinion... Opinions can't be wrong, they're opinions... All this magazine article comparing is a complete waste of time and proves nothing to anyone... let's just love the cars and if there's races or competitions or stories to be shared, let's share them in good health... | ||
| Matt_Lemus (Matt_lemus)
New member Username: Matt_lemus Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2003 |
Big Shot Ernesto making his entrance. Always the erection.  | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1048 Registered: 2-2001 |
Peter, you forgot to mention that is actually a VW Murcielago, since VDub own Audi, who own Lambo. The bottom line is that nobody here CARES. Ferrari will always be better than Lambo. And the fact that Lambo people have to come here to try to prove their point and Ferrari people dont go to lambolist to preach the Ferrari gospel is proof enough. They always have something to prove. Ferrari speaks for itself. Ernesto | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 287 Registered: 4-2001 |
What's this stupid Ferrari=Fiat-thing about? It's embarrasing for you. The only Ferrari Fiat have had any input in is on 348 and after that they were forbidden to have any furter input in the Ferraris. Unfortunately Audi have had a lot of input in the Lambo Mu which destroyed the genuine Lambo style. Lambos are not "good" cars but they had their own brutal style which must be respected, but good. Nope! Now Audi have made a proper car of Lambo Mu and the reason of buying one is gone since Ferrari have always made better cars and still do. The only Lambo I have ever wanted to own is the first Countach 400 just because of it's extreme character and design, not bacause it's a good car. But not before a have a 512BB, F40, F50, Daytona, Enzo, 250LM, 288 GTO, 355, 360 328 etc AND a bunch of Alfas. Ciao Peter | ||
| Peter Polasek (Peterp)
New member Username: Peterp Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
I only skimmed this thread, so maybe I�m missing something, but I think Allan is getting unduly grilled. A Lambo isn�t my first choice either � but if I had the garage, wife, and budget that allowed maintaining several exotics, I might pick one up anyway since it can get oh so dull being forced to drive only Ferraris every day. Owning several makes puts him in a pretty good position to evaluate the cars according to his personal criteria, which may not bear any resemblance to anybody else�s criteria. He indicates that Supras have trashed him, he isn�t a great driver, there are handling and brake issues, � That�s humble and objective enough for me. It is safe to assume that a Diablo equipped with NOS will be a very, very fast car and therefore he is entitled to a few bragging rights. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 432 Registered: 11-2001 |
This seems to be somewhat entertaining but it's getting late now and I have to fly out tomorrow morning to Vegas, they are having test drives on the new Benzes on a blocked off course somewhat like autocross- I'm going there for not only for test drives but for CES. You guys can go at it and battle it out while I go do my homework but mix some fun with it. Allan, you're going on strong- Ernesto, the entertainment is keeping me coming back. Also Ernesto I'm not sure why some don't think you have a 360, why does Allen think that? It doesn't sound unrealistic.You know in my beliefs with cars is that speed and heritage is the least of importance, what is important is what suits you best for your needs or desires and of course reliability. I'll be back Sunday hopefully the threads aren't too long. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 247 Registered: 6-2002 |
For me, and every single kid i knew, we dreampt of owning a Lamborghini Countach. We all loved Ferraris, but nothing could top the almighty Countach. To this day, after having owned one, i still get the same feelings inside as i did as a kid seeing one. To me, the Ultimate no-holds barred exotic. No race history, no heritage, nothing... and i dont care. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 971 Registered: 8-2002 |
PSk... if the history of a brand is important to you, then that's just as important as whatever else was important to whoever when they were kids- that's cool and totally understandable... i just think the majority of people who admire cars (especially Ferraris) aren't thinking about the racing history when they're slipping on their own drool in the show room... "In the end a car is just a piece or two of steel and alloy" If your car is only a piece or two, then you must be driving a Viper...! (sorry, Mike, for the cheap shot- it was the first one available... ) You're probably right about building your own supercar and having trouble, but i would guarantee that at least SOME people would buy it, without a history... (as long as they saw that it was put together properly, etc)... All in all, i hear what you're saying and respect your opinions and views... & yes, opinions are wonderful... | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2002 |
DES, Each to is own, but I grew up reading about motor-racing and car makers history, and thus the history of a brand is important to me. But I am cool if it is only me that thinks this way. In the end a car is just a piece or two of steel and alloy, to go from A to B ... BTW: I am sure if I went home and build the worlds most awesome and fastest car in my garage and then went to market and sell them, that I would struggle without any history. The fastest way to prove you are worthy and as fast as you state it to compete ... thus I would not expect the deposits to roll into until I had proved the car. A few top speed tests in a magazine are not proof enough to me ... but like I said that is just me. Aren't opinions wonderful. Pete | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 966 Registered: 8-2002 |
PSk: Did you know that the word 'dreamt' is the only word in the English language that ends in 'mt'...? However, there are thousands of words in the English language that end in 'nt', but none of them are 'learnt'... Seriously, as a prime example, my 13 year old cousin is into cars (my doing), primarily Ferraris... He knows absolutely nothing of Ferrari's heritage or racing history and probably doesn't give two warm, wet turds... The only names he knows in racing are Schumacher & Schumacher and that's only 'cause i used to watch it so much... He has friends that come over, too... some of them are interested in cars... Most seem more familiar with Vipers than Ferraris, yet still none of them know anything of ANY racing history or heritage of ANY of the cars they like... They're just like us, before we let threads like this become important to us: they like the damn cars 'cause they're fast or they look awesome or whatever pure, innocent reason kids like cars. If i tried to explain to him about depreciation value, he'd walk away- he doesn't give a ••••, he just likes the cars, 'cause they're cool...! Now, earlier, you mentioned that you would buy a Ferrari 'cause you get all that racing history heritage. i'm sorry, but that's the biggest line of crap i've seen in a long time... What racing history heritage comes with the Ferrari of your choice...? If you buy an Enzo, is there a membership card in the glove compartment that says you're now officially in the Ferrari racing history heritage club...? Does it come with a decoder ring...? No. If you buy one of the actual winning Ferraris from one of the actual races, then yes, you would physically own a piece of Ferrari racing history and heritage, but no more. Also, you mentioned your Alfa Romeo has a racing history; does that mean you'd take another Alfa Romeo over a Diablo if either one was offered to you, merely because Alfa has a racing history and Diablo doesn't...? Lastly, you make Lamborghini sound so bad because he never entered racing, therefore making Ferrari a much more respectable marque... Let me be honest with you; if Ferrari had a horribly embarassing racing history or NO RACING HISTORY at all, i would still like the cars, just the same. i think it's safe to say that the same goes for most others here, as well... You don't get any of that racing history/heritage in a road car... you just get the road car. (no matter how many UPC symbols you mail away, you still only get the road car- the racing history is just that- history.) | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 330 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, If the question is how many sanctioned races have I entered? Off the top of my head I would say about 110, maybe 120. If you count the ones I've worked at, probably double that. I only get to 3 or 4 a year these days though. Again, I'm sorry that you feel put off, but I said race because I meant race. It's not my fault that your car is not legal to enter type of event you're interested in. Solo II is the only event I know of that has turns that it is legal to enter and I would be happy to see you there. BTW, an Enzo or an F1 are also legal there and would be near impossible to beat because they actually go around turns well. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mike, When you were young and started to get into cars, what did you aspire to own? The answer to this for most people is a Ferrari. Now you are older and can study the performance, cost and other things, other makes come to mind, such as the Vipers, etc. But while you are being rational, many young kids are starting to dream about cars, and they are learning about the Ferrari brand. Some of their more informed mates might know what a Viper is, but almost all of them will have heard of the name Ferrari. Yes many cars are better and faster, but they are not Ferraris. Ferrari the brand has been building this image for 54 years (actually longer because Ferrari took over the Alfa Romeo torch ... ), it will be hard for other makes to interrupt that young kids dream ... as Ferrari just keep building their heritage. Thus many do not care if a 8 litre monster is faster than their little Ferrari, because they are living that dream they started before they learnt to shave . I luckily dreamt of Alfa Romeos and Ferraris, so can be satisfied with out having to boast about purchase price. BTW: You can never have the fastest car, there always is somebody else lurking around the next corner with more money to waste. Thus I would rather have the heritage, and know that Ferrari are kicking arse in a real race in F1 ... Pete | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1046 Registered: 2-2001 |
At what track did you race Allan? Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2002 |
I measure my car on how it performs on the street when IM driving it. I dont hide behind F1 victories that mean nothing unless im driving around in an actual F1 race car on the road. We all buy cars for atleast some sort of performance, Ferraris are great, but as for performance they generally fall into the lower end of the spectrum. Lets see, cruising down the road in my new 360, lets have some fun, oh look, a Porsche twin turbo, a Corvette Z06, uh oh, Dodge Viper, Lambo Diablo, Lotus TT V8, damn, better go home and watch F1 reruns. Btw, did i ever tell you of my race between my Lotus TT(no chrome wheels or stripes!) vs a 360? | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, how many track events you attended that you know it so well? How many races have you run that makes you an expert in racing. Based on what you said I CHALLENGE F ENZO to race me on the track with a full rollcage....any takers? LOL | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, get a Fiat Dino!!!! Its the ugliest car in the world, and powered by a Ferrari Dino motor! Btw, i just got off the phone with my uncle who owns the 360 i drove for a week in Miami. Funny thing, he wants more power, car seems slowwww? Whats up with that, i mean hes used to driving a Merc 500sl and a Land Rover. You think he'd be impressed with the Ferraris speed? I know, i'll call him back and tell him about all the F1 victories Ferrari has had, that should make him happy! | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1045 Registered: 2-2001 |
Again, Allan, is that how you measure you ride? How many people blow kisses at you? Or how many people's girlfriends tell them to buy Diablos? WHO CARES WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK? They are your words not mine. You measure you car based on how much ATTENTION it receives. Thats fine, Lambos are great for that - visual impact. They attract los of attention, and people blow kisses at you, etc etc etc. Am I twisting your words agian? LOL... Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 244 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, now i agree with you 100%! As i said before, racing a Viper is far more exciting than racing most Ferraris, since you dont find many F40's or F50's riding around. If an inexperienced Sv driver met with competent ACR, no doubt he'd lose. I also think you should get a 308, and a Hawaiin T-shirt and change your name to Magnum. Also, dont race civics or other rice burners as you may find yourself being embarrassed. When the hondas pull up to race, just discuss the fact that you both share numerous F1 victories, and because of this, your cars are the best and have nothing to prove. Ernesto, again, your stupidity shines through? Why do you always try to twist my words, and always make everything out to be for show, or public opinion. You must of had a bad experience. You werent the guy at the Miami gas station in the yellow 360 with his girlfriend were you? The guy whos girlfriend said he should of bought a Lambo. Or the guy driving the silver 355 spyder whos girlfriend blew me a kiss? Nah, couldnt of been you, have to have a Ferrari first.lol | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 329 Registered: 5-2002 |
Allen I can't believe you need help with preferences. Mike, Honestly, I'm happy to concede practice and congratulate Adam or anyone else on a practice well done. As far as actual races, the kind where they declare a winner (heck, they even give out trophies), I've offered every sanctioned event for road cars that I know of, but none where acceptable. As far as sanctioned vs. not, it's my safety I'm primarily interested in, but I would hate to see anyone hurt. Competition rules are there to make a safe race event for everyone concerned. They understand that people tend to push much harder when it�s a win or loose thing and they understand that streetcars were not designed or intended to survive in a competition environment. They�ve identified the primary problem areas and written the rules to address them. I just don�t believe that insisting on racing at the races is unreasonable, but that�s why they have races isn�t it? Personally I think you�re living in a fantasy world if you think you go racing but you�ve never entered a race. As for drag racing, it may have changed, but the last time I was at the drag strip, racing by the rules was bracket and/or index racing, so the winner needs neither a good ET nor a good mph, so long as it�s the same each time or the closest to a predetermined #. Nobody asked for that, nor did I decline an ET race, I wasn't asked. I think that�s because it's just not that interesting to a primarily roadrace group, it's a preference thing. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1043 Registered: 2-2001 |
Adam, dont worry. Perhaps you can start calling your car Daimler Viper and you can feel better about it. Sorry, but my title does not say FIAT anywhere on it. What does yours say? Mike, thats the problem. What do you care if people think (or know) that you are driving the best car. What do you care what people think? Or what do you care how exclusive it is? Does making more of the same car make it any better? It's still the same car. Of course the Viper is faster than a 308. So what? I still dont unserstand people's obsession of coming here and trying to convince Ferrari owners that their car is better. You came here, we didnt go to ViperChat or LamboChat with our insecurities and try to convince anybody that Ferrari is the best of the best. I'll take a 355 over a Viper any day. I'll take a 575MM over a Murcielago any day. I'll take an F40 over a Diablo GT any day. But that's me. And, like most people here, you wont be able to convince me otherwise. I have driven a Viper and a Diablo. Dont like them. I am not saying they are crap or slow, just that I like Ferrari better. Is that so hard to understand? Ernesto | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 965 Registered: 8-2002 |
Say what...? That's a Ferrari...? & you owned it when you were 14...? i'm confused... | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 84 Registered: 7-2002 |
DES, I was a proud owner of a Ferrari when I was 14 year old. This is Fiat 126 600 or sport 650CC and 26-30HP. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 964 Registered: 8-2002 |
Adam...! WTF is that...?!? | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here is the latest $0.0000001mil Ferrari...I mean Fiat that makes the f car owner proud. I forgot to add that it is 2 cyl air cooled 30HP killer LOL [img]http://maluch.elmer.net.pl/galeria/foto2duze.gif[/img] | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2002 |
Allan, You transposed your car names there - you meant to say the ACR is faster than the SV, not the other way around Hey I'm just teasing you Allan... I know the SV is faster - however they are close enough that a poser in an SV is likely to get the wood laid to him by a good driver in an ACR if he's not watching closely. Jr_Vee, If only a few people care what a car retailed for or what it's worth, but everyone knows a Ferrari (any Ferrari, even a cheap 328) is better, then would you suggest I go and buy a 308 and I can be cool too? I was checking the 308 a little bit... looks like they made 12,168 of them from 77 to 82 (5 years). They made 6,199 Viper GTS from 96 to 2001 (5 years). Do you think I would be able to find a car that's twice as common as the one I have? I had a hard time finding the Viper - would a 308 be too hard to find? The other concern is price. I have $84k set aside for the Viper SRT. I was checking some 308 sites and they say the price of a 308 varies from $19,000 (low end) to $34k (high end). So given that I could only buy three perfect 308's or four average 308's for the price of the Viper, which route would you suggest taking? Finally, do you have any ideas for what I could tell people when they ask how much I paid? Should I tell them it's appraised at $50k? If I say it enough, will I convince myself of this too? How about speed - everyone tells me they are slow - should I just go with the "I don't care, it's still a Ferrari and your POS Corvette can not compare"??? Does that suffice or should I also talk about appraised value also? Now I keep telling people the Ferrari is at the top - the best car ever made. But people talk about "lamborghinis" and "McLarens" and "Jaguars" and "Mercedes" and "Paganis" and "Maseratis" and all these other words. How can I convince them (and myself) that my car is really better? Should I just say "shut up a Ferrari is better nyah nyah nyah"??? Finally, given that the car is slow, should I just turn my nose up and be a snob if anyone (besides Civics and Accords) want to race? What do you suggest? Oh one last question.. I know you said the Ferrari is the benchmark that all cars strive to achieve... but my friend has a 1986 Corvette with 180k miles and he says its faster - that can't be true can it??? Please let me know the answers to the above so I can buy a few 308's and join the club!!!! (apologies to everyone else for having to roll up the sleeves and smack JRV around a bit). I loved the 360 I briefly owned... I'd love to get another one - it's an amazing car. The best part of it was how much improved it was over other Ferraris I have driven. It was night and day compared to my buddy's TR (although I still like the 512M better somehow). I would love to drive a 575 and see how great they have made these cars now. I can't imagine how civilized the 420 will be. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 82 Registered: 7-2002 |
JR...OK Viper is a Dodge but Ferrari is a Fiat. When I lived in Europe Fiat = US Pinto quality. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1042 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan, what do you care what the public thinks, or who votes for what, or what magazine writer prefers to what, etc etc? Are you looking for information and data to make you feel better about your car? Who cares if people are in awe when you drive up in your car? Thanks for proving my point.... Ernesto PS. I think Allan is just pissed off because his wife drives a better car than him... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 243 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jrvee, Your absolutely right, when you pull up in your 308 people are in awe!lol Haha anyways since your talking about the public now, i was just reading the article on the Diablo and the F40. In the article the F40 was definately faster, not greatly 12.2@122 vs 12.4@119 in the 1/4, but most certainly faster around the track. They made reference to the publics opinions about both cars, and by and large, the public voted for the Diablo. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 242 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ernesto, shouldnt you be waxing your Tercel? | ||
| jr vee (Jrv_)
New member Username: Jrv_ Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2002 |
Yes its lonely at the top, everyone tries to take cheap shots and make their jealous comments to make themselves feel better but deep inside they know the truth Only a few people really care or give a sh*t how much this car retailed for or what its exactly worth which is also subjective, or how fast it goes 0-60 or how many Gs or its top speed To most a Ferrari is a Ferrari the benchmark or goal of all exotic and non exotic cars strive to acheive A Ferrari will always have the panache and cache far greater in the publics view than a Dodge with big ugly stripes or Lambo with big ugly stripes So who cares, noone else here really cares(except a few easily swayed types) how much YOU think your Dodge or Lambo is better than a Ferrari, ramble on all you want | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike....I agree 100000% LOL I'll race Mark on any road track providing that I don't have to install a roll cage. I have 5 point harness and fire ext. and upgraded StopTech brakes. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1040 Registered: 2-2001 |
You have to remember, when Allan says slower, he means its slower to attract attention. Lambo owners have different performance parameters. LOL Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 241 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, A Viper ACR is definately slower than a Diablo Sv. I have proven that point myself several times. But why take my word for it when i can give you the email address to a guy who has both, a 98 SV and a 99 Viper ACR. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 962 Registered: 8-2002 |
"unless with the same driver, same day, same experience in the car, same track, same state of tune, same conditions, etc)." There you go...! That sounds good to me...! i have absolutely NO experience in ANY of the cars mentioned- i'm PERFECT for the job...! Everyone meet at some track, let me know where it is and i'll show up to test each car, one at a time... Mike, that was a perfect idea...! | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2002 |
It's a late night at the office and I've been sucking down Bud Lights for a few hours, so forgive me for being blunt I have to back Allan up a little here (even though he thinks a Viper ACR is slower than a Diablo SV - shame on you Allan!). Regarding heritage - who cares about that? Doesn't the VW Beetle have more heritage than just about any car? Or the Porsche 911? Just because the manufacturer has a lot of history, does that make the cars good? Is a ragged out 328 just as alluring and desirable as a 575 or F50, just because they are both Ferraris (if you think the answer is yes - does that mean a $25k Mercedes C230 is as good as a CLK-GTR or even a CL55, just because they are both Mercedes'??? Of course not). Does a brand make a good car crappy (a Viper is still a Dodge - to be associated with Neon's) but makes a crappy car good (328 on the level with an Enzo?) of course not. Regarding laps at the nurburgring - who cares? A bunch of us race, right? I know I do - quite a lot. We all know that so many things affect results as to make them hard to compare - unless with the same driver, same day, same experience in the car, same track, same state of tune, same conditions, etc). What's the point of the argument? Is a Murcielago faster than a 360? Of course it is. Is it quicker around a track? I'd guess yes. Is an F50 able to lay wood to a Murcielago? I'd guess yes. Is an Enzo more exclusive than a Diablo SV? Of course. Maybe I missed part of the argument? Mark, I think you need to race El Diablo. You talk about the spirit of racing. One of the biggest parts of racing is run-what-ya-brung. So what if your hard springs would not help on a drag strip... run what ya brung. Racing is not about who theoretically would win in each situation, it's about taking what you have to the venue of choice and competing. The driver matters. The car matters. The day matters. Luck matters. Reliability matters. They don't say "Michael Schumacher won the F1 race today.. but we should point out that Mika Salo had an engine failure and if he wasn't feeling sick from the flu last night and if Bob hadn't dropped the wrench when changing the tires, and if they had gotten that sponsorship from MegaCo they would have been able to afford that 3rd wind tunnel check and he might well have given Schumie a run for his money!". No, there are no excuses. I think Adam wins this race by default. As is said - if you don't show, you can't win. There is no added safety from being at an SCCA event as opposed to a track day. The only difference is that Adam wouldn't be required to have the safety stuff - but why would one care about the comeptitors safety??? Mark, I'd think you were just being honorable, but you already said you woulnd't even participate fairly in a sanctioned drag racing event - but rather "fastest MPH would win". Who cares about MPH? Drag racing is an NHRA sanctioned event. I would challenge you to a drag race at any NHRA track on a competitive day. We'll race for whatever you like - be it cash, dinner, a beer, whatever. BUT WE RACE BY THE RULES, and the WINNER IS THE GUY THAT WINS THE RACE ACCORDING TO THE RULES. How can you, on the one hand be all about rules and sanctioned events, and then on the other hand, totally avoid the rules of a race you were offered and claim that something irrelevant would win the race??? How about this - the race is at Adam's next track day. The guy that doesn't show up loses... that's how we'll define the winner. This race is sanctioned by me. And I just declared Adam the winner Some Ferraris are just as exotic and wild as Lambos... would I prefer an F50 or a Murcielago? Hmm.. I really don't know to be honest. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 240 Registered: 6-2002 |
I agree that magazine racing is not your best source for performance figures, but you can get an idea as to peoples preferences. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2002 |
And to put the icing on top, I see we're back to paper racing. I find it most amusing the way specs are list at one moment, then disallowed the next. What�s that they say �figures don�t lie, but liars sure can figure�. My guess the reason that none of us could agree on race terms is that we all know exactly what our cars do well and what we can do as drivers. We also all know what we and our cars do not do well. I say, take it for a test drive, if it makes you smile, buy it. Piss on the reviews and specs, you don�t live in a magazine. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 238 Registered: 6-2002 |
Matt, i think your dyslexic. Im actually in the process of cleaning out my closet and im actually pulling out all my Lambo/Ferrari mags.I just actually came across a Road and Track magazine where they tested a Testarossa and raved about it, only problem is you turn the page, where they test the Countach, and the headline is "Anything you can do, i can do Better" I dont recall any F50vs Diablo magazine, but i happened to be there when Car and Driver and the Shelton Ferrari guys took a Diablo and an F40 to the track. Yes the F40 was faster, but havent i conceded that already? Why no reports on the Diablo/Murcielago vs the DIRECT FERRARI COMPETITION, the 550/575? You say that Lambo makes up for bad handling with power? Than why do the smaller Ferraris lap tracks faster than their bigger and faster models? Ill tell you why, because they are small and nimble, the other cars are hindered by their sheer size. In the last test, a 575M did so poorly was beaten on a race course by an autobox SL55. Hmmm seems someone else posted some lap times where a Diablo vt, the heaviest and slowest Diablo outperformed a light and nimble 355. As for my Sv stickers, well theyre not for everyone, id probably take them off, but theyre factory so i leave them on. I like them, but then again, my Ferrari also has big chrome wheels and big yellow Ferrari shields on it. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 955 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yeah, and i was really hoping to get knee-deep into a post involving religion...! i'd still like to see the races, i just want them to be in good fun... | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 327 Registered: 5-2002 |
At least it set a new record, it didn't even need the religion posts. For a while there it looked like it might end with a new race story on each coast...but like they say, the devil is in the details. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 953 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, Mark, if you've noticed, i haven't posted in this thread nearly as much as the first one... my heart can't take the abuse these precious machines are taking, on both siDES... i weep at night, i hope you all know that...  | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 326 Registered: 5-2002 |
It just breaks my heart to think DES needs to see this. Oh the shame of it. | ||
| Neil A. Campbell (Bimmerlover)
New member Username: Bimmerlover Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2002 |
well no matter what you guys say i want a murcielago, a gt2 (the best track/road car for the money), and 360 spider this just goes to show how narrowminded and monomaniacal people can get. both companies have there pros/cons. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1038 Registered: 2-2001 |
LOL... Allan has all the magazine articles, as well as selected quotes from each one, memorized and ready to cite! Magazine racing is fun, isn't it? Again, when it comes to performance, Ferrari has Lambo beat all around - and Ferrari has the track record to back it up. Unless, of course, your idea for performance is to race in a straight line for a short distance with NOS or cruising down the strip with the doors up. But hey, they sure attract attention! Especially with those huge SV stickers splattered across the side... Ernesto | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 325 Registered: 5-2002 |
Can't we all just get a Ferrari? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2002 |
If I was in the position to spend that much money on a road car, I would buy the Ferrari. Why?, when you buy a Ferrari you are buying all that racing history/heritage ... when you buy a Lambo you are buying a (very) fast road car, that is all. Because I have a racing background and really cannot see the point of all that performance being wasted on the road ... I don't quite get Lambos, and they do not have my respect based on the fact that Mr Lambo was not prepared to go head to head and race his products. If he had then we would not have this thread, as it would have been sorted out in history. Thus no matter what they do now (although they still are not keen in going into battle on the track) the brand will always be tanished by the 'I am just a street/poser car' made to look good only. What a pity ... even my Alfa Romeo has a proud racing history to chat about in the pub. Great cars, no doubt but Mr Lambo made a mistake in not taking his products to the track ... look at what Toyota are trying to do now in F1, what a great leveller and heritage building tool REAL motor-racing is. Remember the dismal failure of Lambos engine in F1 ... they should have kept at it and built some respect, instead of leaving with their tails between their legs. Pete | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 946 Registered: 8-2002 |
article. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1321 Registered: 8-2002 |
Allan, I seem to recall a recent R&T artical on some supecars....Let's see, a f-1, a 959, a f-40 but no lambo..There was a 288 vs 959 vs contach...Lambo was 3rd. There was a p turbo vs f-40 vs diablo in 1990. Lambo 2nd behind f-40. There was a f-50 vs diablo. Lambo last. Your not dexlyxic are you? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 945 Registered: 8-2002 |
i might as well say it, it needs to be said at some point: i hate those friggin' SV stickers spread out across the whole side of the car...! Other than that, the car's pretty nice... | ||
| jr vee (Jrv_)
New member Username: Jrv_ Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2002 |
In order of importance: A Ferrari is Kim Basinger A Lambo is Pam Anderson who likes guys like Tommy Lee and can't figure out what size her boobs or lips should be A Viper is Latoya Jackson -no explanation needed | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2002 |
How much do those SV stickers weigh, anyway? | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Lambos have bigger engines, don't they? So if Ferrari were to engage in a tit-for-tat competition with Lamborghini, it will get so stupid as there will be no end to it. It will become a silly and meaningless showcase of "my whatsit is bigger than yours". And it will detract from the many other virtues, such as heritage and culture, that are unique to Ferrari only. It appears that Lamborghini is using straight-line speed and engine size as an equaliser. At the end of the day, it appears that it is the only thing that Lambos can really brag about. And I do not agree with all these insulting terms being used against Ferraris, just because Lamborghini have gone to extremes in order to go one-up on Ferrari in terms of straight-line speed. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 285 Registered: 4-2001 |
Nice thread and again PRODUCTION CARS Jan �Flash� Nilsson, Professional racing driver Chrysler Viper GTS 1.31.61 (120 km/h) Lamborghini Diablo VT 1.31.90 Ferrari F355 F1 Berlinetta 1.33.73 Porsche 911 Carrera Cup 1.35.42 BMW M Coupe 1.35.64 Maserati 3200 GT 1.36.30 Chevrolet Corvette C5 1.37.21 Jaguar XKR 1.39.72 and LAP TIMES DANISH TRACK PRODUCTION CARS Thed Bj�rk, Professional racing driver Lamborghini Diablo VT 0.56.10 Nissan Skyline 0.58.88 BMW M5 0.59.02 Maserati 3200 GT 0.00.12 BMW Z3 Coupe 2.8 0.01.60 Amateur driver (in an already sold car) Ferrari 360 Challenge 0.56.95 I have seen an 8.04 time at the ring for a stock 360 Modena. Enjoy Ciao Peter | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 237 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also, why is that in 90% of the magazine comparisons between various Lambos and Ferraris, they always pick the Lambo? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 236 Registered: 6-2002 |
Matt, You forgot Lambos are also great cars for making Ferraris look bad. Or just like it said in the last article i read on the Murcielago and the 575M, "Make the Ferrari look Passe! | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1319 Registered: 8-2002 |
That's all they are good for. | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2001 |
One thing is for sure, the Lambo is a great car to park in front of a strip club. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 235 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ernesto, I see you never did answer the question on what would happen when the Lambo pulls up next to YOU on the street. Will you pull out Your Nurburgring Lap Times? I dont know which car ran which length, but it is a inconsistancy. Maybe the Ferrari ran the longer track, maybe it didnt. I do know that if you look further into the article youll see that the Diablo is several seconds faster than both the 550 and the 360 to 200km hour. | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Junior Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 146 Registered: 2-2002 |
I thought there was a Ferrari website around here somewhere.... My links must be messed up or on NOS | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 234 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also wheres the Murcielagos 7.50 run? The Diablo Gt's 8.04 ? Also, do you think drivers get more seat time behind the wheels of Ferrari or Lambos? I never compare the performance of my SV to a stock Ferrari. Even when we where comparing my SV to an F40, it was a modded F40. My car will obliterate a Ferrari, and that would be unfair. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1037 Registered: 2-2001 |
So obviouly the Ferraris ran the shorter course? LOL... Allan is getting desperate now... And the mighty SV needs the extra 20hp to hang with a 360? Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 233 Registered: 6-2002 |
Taken directly from the LAP TIMES! Facts: Lap times for road legal street cars, some is 20,8 km and some 20,6 km, some with the old pit and some with the new one: It is a compilation of times by the Autosport test driver. The Sv used was an early model 510hp, not 530, without the larger brakes found. All the times were compiled on different days, even years appart. | ||
| Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Junior Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 184 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks for the listing, Ernesto. Very interesting numbers. 'Nuff said...the numbers speak. | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Junior Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 143 Registered: 2-2002 |
You can't argue with that Allan even the 360 kept the same time as you SV (of course that SV didn't have any help like yours) and there are 2 Fcars that beat your beloved SV | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1036 Registered: 2-2001 |
From the link I posted previously ------------------------------------------ FACTS: Laptimes for different cars Here are some times for different cars. A quite interesting list to read. The information was compiled and sent to us by David Mocnay, who got the times from the German car magazine Sport Auto. We send our thanks to David! The laps where all done by the same driver on a dry track. Car Time Comment Porsche 996 GT2 7 min 46 sec Porsche 996 Turbo 7 min 56 sec Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo 7 min 57 sec 600 HP, racing suspension Porsche 996 GT3 8 min 9 sec Ferrari 550 8 min 7 sec Lamborghini Diablo SV 8 min 9 sec Ferrari 360 Modena 8 min 9 sec Chrysler Viper GTS 8 min 10 sec Porsche 993 Turbo 8 min 12 sec 430 HP version | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1035 Registered: 2-2001 |
No, I wont race in a slow car. The 360 is not a drag car, neither is the SV. When I had my Supra I DESTROYED a Diablo. Thats all I need to know. You are the only idiot bragging about drag racing in a straight line with exotic cars and NOS, with your chome whees, big wings, and huge stickers. You sound like you belong in a souped up Civic racing Integras and Neons. Bottom line is that the 360 posts the same time as your mighty SV at the NRing at the same track under the same condition. You have TWO examples where the Lambos have performed relatively well. Want me to list the thousands of examples where a Ferrari has WON? LOL... Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 232 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kevin, In my opinion, a car with wires for door handles is a little extreme. No radio, a/c etc. Thats a race car. A Diablo GTR or SVR is also stripped of unwanted items and then weighs in at 2900pds.Its a race car, and runs in its own race series like the Ferrari Challange. Unfortunately, the best Diablo of them all, the 3100pd Gt, is not available in this country. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 231 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ernesto, your stupidity shines through again. You bring up the Nurburgring lap times again, when it has been shown that the track lengths differ. You bring up race circuits, when Lambos dont really race, but when they do, such as in Australia with Paul Stokell they do rather well. Also in Japan there are a few privateers who do well in their race prepped Diablos. Tell me, in the One Lap of America race, where cars are subjected to a wide array of race tracks and cross country driving, where are the Ferraris? In the year a 98 Diablo SV was entered, it finished 2nd, just behind a Mosler race car. Last year, a bone stock, early model Diablo finished in the top ten, behind many race prepared cars. Tell me this, when your cruising in your supposed 360, going down the highway and that Diablo pulls up next to you, with its chrome wheels and big stickers, are you going to hide behind F1 victories or are you going to put the peddle to the metal and run it? My guess is youd hide, because you know, youd get SMOKED! | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2002 |
Allan, You are partially right. F40/F50: limited edition? yes. higher price tag? yes. race car? no. I know you know cars (including NSX's) so you can't state that you believe F40/F50's are true race cars. They are streetable interpretations of F1 cars, yes, but not race cars. Hey, if Lambo wanted to build a heavier car so be it... | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1034 Registered: 2-2001 |
Faster how? maybe in top speed, but around racing circuits (where Ferrari focuses its cars), Lamborghinis get KILLED all the time by the F-Cars (and the P-Cars we well). Lambos are nice for cruising the boulevard with the chrome wheels and big SV stickers all over the place (and also for bragging online about top speed and magazines articles), but when it comes to real racing, Lambos have been pathetic. They never domninate any type of racing anywhere... Ernesto PS. A 360M posts the same lap time as a Diablo SV at the N-Ring... LOL... | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1485 Registered: 4-2002 |
i cant believe this friggin thread is still going on..allan, yes you win, the academy award..... not end this f#@$IN THREAD | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 230 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kevin, are you serious? The 550-575 is the direct competitor for the Diablo/Murcielago. F40/F50 are limited edition race cars, which at the time of intro cost significantly more than any Lambo. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 229 Registered: 6-2002 |
No kidding Ernesto. Stock for stock, Lambos are still Faster than Ferraris, other than the F40, F50, and Enzo, and even then, theyll give an F40-F50 a run for its money on anything barring a full on track race, where the Ferraris were built with clear race car intensions and the Lambo with street Gt car intensions. | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
New member Username: Challenge Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2002 |
Allan, why does everyone want to match up Lambo's flagship supercar to the 550/575 line? Wouldn't a more reasonable match-up (performance, looks, price, exclusivity, etc) be the F40 and F50? And, yes, I know the F40 is an 8-cylinder that is at least 11 years old. But that just makes the F40 that much more impressive. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1033 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan, your car is not stock. Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 228 Registered: 6-2002 |
John, You hit the nail on the head, im poor and couldnt afford to build up my Lambo! lol We've already agreed that Poopras can be made fast, as can any car. We are talking a stock for stock compro between Ferrari and Lamborghini. No F1 history, no other crap, just 1 street car versus another, directly from the factory. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
Chris; A cogent summary of what makes Ferraris unlike any other car. I agree completely. | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2001 |
I can't believe that someone actually put NOS on a Lambo! Must be trying to get a part in a new street racing movie called " The Pasta Was Furious". I had NOS in high school when I couldn't afford to build my engine right. All this bench racing is very entertaining. It reminds me of all of the Supra guys talking trash. Do any of you guys thing that you could take that 69 Camaro that used to run the Silver State Classic? Point is, there is always someone faster. Buy what you want because you like it, not because you want to be cool. If you are lame, your car won't make you cool. Lambo's are cool, but, I think that the Supra would be faster. It just comes down to HP/LBS. You can make anything fast, just depends on how much you want to spend. I think that you should get someone on the Supraforums to run that Lambo NOS vs. NOS | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 227 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also, for the gold chain and poor fit and finish department, if there is one car that fits that bill in the Ferrari line up, it is definately the F40. I guess that could be also why it is my favorite Ferrari. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 226 Registered: 6-2002 |
Chris, I totally disagree. Since i have no interest in F1, A cars racing pedigree means nothing to me. If racing pedigree meant anything in a street car, we should all also buy Honda Accords, because i mean they to have had a great racing past. Build quality on the Lambos is just as good as the Ferraris, with less maintenence required. The one thing i know, is that, in the Lambo/Ferrari compro, every competing model, whether it be Countach/Testarossa, Early Diablo/512TR, Later Diablo/550, Murcielago/575M, the Lambos always come out ahead in terms of performance, even beating out subsequent Ferrari models. Only the mega high dollar F40-F50-and Enzo pose a threat. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 940 Registered: 8-2002 |
i'm so weird... Everytime i see Chris' name, i sit at my DESk with my hands folded and i eagerly read what he has to say, like i'm some little kid at school and he's the cool teacher's aide... (yes, yes, i know, i'm calling my therapist right now...) | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 538 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ok, up until Audi bought Lambo, I never considered Lambo a Ferrari competitor, I am not talking about speed or power, I talking about my desire to have a car that earned and deserved my respect. Ferrari's have a pedigree that is untarnished, derived directly from racing, a true blue blood, just like Porsche. Lambo's have never competed successfully in any sanctioned racing program for any length of time. Lambo has had more owners than Elizabeth Taylor has had husbands, it is hard to tell exactly what a Lambo is, that said, I think that has changed. The new Murcie is the first Lambo that is not built like a kit car ( this is not a critism, Lambo just has never had the resources Ferrari has enjoyed), the Murcie has Audi standing behind it and it is an incredible car. The new baby Lambo is a very serious contender to the 360. I think in the future that Lambo and Ferrari will be very similar and will appeal to much the same buyer as Audi trys to distant itself from the "gold chain" image Lambo has suffered from in the past. No matter how fast they are or how much power they have, they are just not revered with the same respect Ferrari's have EARNED. Audi will do wonderful things with Lambo, and I suspect you will start to see these cars raced competively and they will finally earn the respect as a true performance car, not a continuation of an Italian tractor. Hey just my opinion.............. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2002 |
This thread is going on. And so too is my question. We all know that Ferrari can build very fast cars if they had wanted to, so much so that they can keep winning F1 races with landslide victories. Notwithstanding their clear ability, however, Ferrari has refrained from condescending into a blow-for-blow, "brute force" competition directly with Lamborghini. Why? Is there not a very good reason to all this? Is the answer not already in the question? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 321 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, Practice lets you have a lot fun and see the track. If you want to see the podium, you have to win a race. Racing has nothing to do with being careful so you can drive the car home, it's about crossing the finish line first. It�s one thing to run a few good laps out in practice, it�s completely another thing to do it on demand under the pressure of competition. The reason I that insisted on one car timed event is that bumping is a perfectly good strategy in multi-car races and I don�t want my car bumped. That�s why I don�t roadrace it. The other reason is that my car is illegal in most classes so I don�t think we can get on the track head to head anyway. So again, if you want to race at a real race event, I�ll be there. If you find a venue for real racing other than what I�ve already offered, I�m certainly willing to consider it, but that means classes, rules, and podiums though. It has to be a race... or it isn't racing. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 224 Registered: 6-2002 |
Car looks awesome! Lambos just make my heart pound in ways a Ferrari never will. Why dont you take out the second set of cats? Get the k+n filters. Youll notice a nice difference immediately. I cant believe the clutch in your 348 seems the same as on your Diablo, in my cars it is an absolute night and day difference. Same goes for steering effort. Also the shifter in the Diablo can be manipulated with 2 fingers while the Ferrari is very reluctant. I can shift both quickly, but the Lambos is much more precise. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 80 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, accidents happen all the time. The only difference between the event that you want to do is that the roll cage is required which I'm not willing to rip up my new car for. I do like track events but non of them need for me to make those changes. It depends in which group you drive. if you are in the fast one then there is no need for passing signals so it is just like a race w/o a pit crew to help you out. This makes you drive slower if you know that you'll have to drive this car back home. if you change you mind let me know. Here is one crash: http://www.microworks.net/dave/viper.html | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 430 Registered: 11-2001 |
Allan, to answer those questions- the shifting on the Diablo was easier but I can shift just as fast once moving and steering is just a tad easier to move but when it comes to making radius turns, it sucks-as far as the clutch goes it seems the same- the transmisson is not close ratio. I took out the 2nd set of cats and have a tubi muffler in it but still timid on the sound so I then removed the muffler also and damn it really sound like a muscle car and a Ferrari put together and that made a very noticeable power difference, I had put the muffler and cats on the scale and measured 75lbs removed. I bought the diablo for 2 reasons- 1 it was the last year for the roadster so the value will hold better. 2 I love open air driving and I didn't buy the car for racing but for enjoyment for cruising on sunny days, poser is the person trying to impress someone of something he or she is not or don't have which don't fit my description, I do things for me and don't consider myself social in the public eyes but try to do things for myself - for my beliefs - I could care less of what others think- why should I? I just keep myself clear and work hard at what I do for a living and by that belief I will always get what I want. I always have and always will, but one thing you will need to know is live within your means, I have learned that from the past, but that is another story.. I attached a pic of my flatbed pickup, I used to haul lumber in it along with some masonry and works great with the top off for more room!  | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 319 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, It looks like a lot of fun, but I have seen some very bad things happen at unsanctioned car events including a death, a guard rail through the forehead (he did live), arrests leading to jail time, the list just goes on. I just don�t go to any unsanctioned events for any reason. Now I'm sorry you feel put off, but I�m offering you a race, you�re offering to compare practice times. You can�t win practice, you have to enter the race, that�s how it works. They call it a forfeit when you don�t come. And really that was both the point and the challenge. I said nothing about my car being faster than yours or anyone else�s. What I did say is that races are not run on paper and magazine specs don�t win them. You can�t hope to win a race you don�t enter. The cars you see racing on TV are not the cars you can buy at the dealer and buying tiger Wood�s golf clubs doesn�t make you a good golfer. I�m 100% sure there are many things that your car does better than mine, but I think there may be a few it doesn�t. I know for a fact you would kick my butt in top speed. I�m also pretty sure that for what you do with it, you�re really happy with it, they�re great cars. Personally, for what I do with it, I prefer my ferrari. Now I�ll teach you about racing. Back in my younger and much much stupider days, I was in a bar and cars came up, I start shooting off my mouth about how fast my corvette was. The guy next to me said you want to put $100 on it right now? I laid the money on the bar and I said �lets go, name the place�. He matched the money, pointed to a white house and said, first to the drive way wins. The house was maybe � mile away across a field with a creek running across it. By road it, was at least 5 miles to get down to the bridge and up the road to the driveway, he had a 4x4. I shook his hand and went back in. There is no such thing as the �fastest� car, just the one that makes you the happiest. I learned an important lesson about racing that day at the bar, you need to know the rules before you enter. Strategy is a big part of racing. At the autocross, my car runs E Modified, which is a race car class, I�m the only one I�ve ever seen actually drive any M class car to an event. God bless you if you can been me at an autocross in a viper. It requires very stiff springs to handle the fast direction changes. Drag springs are soft with a lot of preload so I�m about as far from a good drag set up as I could be. A basically stock viper should be much better, and I would guess you would whoop me on ET. MPH is just a power to weight function, you were kind enough to supply the dyno #s to plug in and you�re weight in on the web, that�s why the offer was MPH not ET. My race wheels have soft compound slicks on them and I have tire warmers. So on a road course, I could go out and run maybe 2 absolutely blistering laps, but I�d have to come in after that or fry the tires, not to mention my brakes. It�s got to be a 1 lap race, that�s solo I. I�ve never driven the car on a �real� track, but I used to road race motorcycles, a lot, and have run many of the east coast tracks and know them quite well. I�ve never raced at the Glen though. Racing is all about advantage, when there aren�t rules, it�s about unfair advantage. There is no best car | ||
| mrdigital (Mrdigital)
New member Username: Mrdigital Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2002 |
200 mph. sweet http://www.forbes.com/2002/12/09/cz_jc_1209featside.html?partner=carpoint | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2002 |
Allan, [Quote]PSK, wasnt it Paul Stokell who was the driver for the Lamborghini in Australia? From what i understand he was very succesfull. [End Quote] Yes Paul is a very good driver and he had quite a few wins ... actually do not know who won the series, but it will be the last time the Lambo is raced ... as Holden (GM) has cheated and created a 7 litre Monaro which has been allowed to have all sorts of race-only modifications (like wishbone front suspension, whereas the road car has macpherson struts) and will kill the series. Lambo have already pulled out as they had to restrict revs ... but the Holden (Australian made and bred) has been allowed to do what it likes ... oh how marketing can make or break motorsport. Oh well it was interesting while it lasted. The F360 (when driven by a real driver) and Paul in the Lambo had some interesting battles ... Ferrari being more nimble, and the Lambo more powerful. Porsches mixed it with them to. Pete | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 299 Registered: 2-2001 |
In addition to solo stuff and school, Viper Days also offers a wheel-to-wheel race (for which a cage and other proper safety items are required). | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 78 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, I don't have a competition license second I'm not installing a roll cage. I don't understand why you need scca event to find out which car is faster? At Viper Days you go with a group that has the same skills as you. Do you think that all of the Vipers will slow you down? I see that you are trying to find a way to not to race me. Soon I'll find out that you want me to enroll in Le Mans race to find out which car is faster. So what do you want to test? A driver or a car? Here is a short video of me and my friends having fun at Watkins Glen. The event was not timed but I had a hot Lap Timer. http://forum.rallyfreak.com/zerothread?id=586 | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mark, You're right - setting up a car for drag racing is a different game than setting it up for the street or for the road course, but I'm sure Adam wouldn't have that setup either. I just think it would be a ton of fun to watch a Ferrari and a Diablo go at it on a drag strip. Around here, you never see Porsches or Ferraris or Lambos at the strip - certainly not driving anyway. If your MPH would be higher than Allan's, then I'd give you the advantage on winning - and Allan would be playing catch up down the track P.S. Can you tell me some more info on your car? I guess it's not close to stock if you feel you can outgun Allan's SV on MPH - and as a guy who loves powerful cars, I'd love to know more. Looks like a twin screw supercharger. Is it a custom job? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, I checked the pages on viper days, they specifically say it is a driving school. You're right, they do time it, but that is really so they can grid the cars to minimize passing. It is not a race event and I think it would be inappropriate go there to race. I�m sorry, but I will only race at sanctioned race events and I can�t negotiate on that. I�ve already seen enough people get hurt do things where they shouldn�t be doing them to last me a life time. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 317 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike B, I know to drag race well requires a lot of skill, which btw I don't have. It also requires some pretty specific set-ups in the suspension to get the car hooked to get a decent 60' time, which are in direct conflict with the set-up for cornering. So to get a got ET, at a minimum I'd need to change springs, maybe backing out the adjusters on the shock would be enough, but I doubt it. It's just not what my car is set up for and I'd be willing to concede drag ET. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 222 Registered: 6-2002 |
PSK, wasnt it Paul Stokell who was the driver for the Lamborghini in Australia? From what i understand he was very succesfull. Paul, maybe you've watched too many Magnum PI episodes and theyve clouded your vision!lol | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2002 |
Misunderstood, with: [Quote]I thought that most race cars were prepared as identically as possible due to class rules, and that victory went to the best DRIVER with the most SKILL.[End quote] I mean is race series where different cars race against each other, not one make series, such as at Le Mans. In Australia we used to have a Lambo Diablo race against Porshes and Ferrari 360s in a PROPER race series with rules and all, and it was a quick and competent car. On tracks with long straights it did well, but on tight and twisty tracks the Porshes and Ferraris where quicker (especially over the whole race distance, where the extra weight took its toll on the Lambos brakes). The Vipers did well, on long straights too ... Thus victory in most race series goes to the best prepared and race-ready car and driver combination. Even if you compare lap times when your not racing, it still not a good comparison ... both drivers need to be racing seriously ... so again this post is bullsh!t. Pete | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 988 Registered: 12-2001 |
Is it just me or does a diablo look like a flatbed truck. No offense Modified348 but it just looks like that to me. Maybe its just the angle. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 221 Registered: 6-2002 |
Modified348ts, Your Roadster looks great! So does your 348. Let me ask you a few questions. In comparing the controls of your Lambo and 348 which seems easier to you? Im speaking in terms of clutch,shifter,and steering effort? My Lambo is far easier to drive in that respect. After driving my 348 for about 2 weeks, i got in the Lambo, pressed the clutch and thought it was gone. Also, one thing i hate about the 348 is its warm up time, takes forever for everything to loosen up, not so in the Lambo. Also, have you driven an Sv Diablo? There is a big difference between it and a Roadster. Firstly an Sv is several hundred pounds lighter and only rear wheel drive, making it much more tossable. It uses the same 530hp motor as your Roadster but also adds a ram air intake that at speeds makes quite a difference. Lastly, do you have exhaust on your Roadster? If not, i highly recommend it. You can keep 2 of the 4 cats, or delete them all with the latter giving a HUGE increase in power and in the interm you lose approximately 100pds of unneeded weight. Also add a set of K+N filters, youll be able to hear and feel a difference in throttle response immediately. With those mods your car will also run cooler and performance is night and day. I love the Roadster and have considered getting one, i think that with the top off, a sport exhaust system it would make quite a ride even though Roadsters were made more for posing rather than speed. Also, what gear set do you have? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 428 Registered: 11-2001 |
Common fellas, I'm a Lambo owner too. Ernesto- I know how to use the edit button! I'll try to make anyone who read this realizes my experiences with the Lambo. Yes the car has the looks like no other and 2 I must be getting to old in thought- it gets too much attention I don't want, not that the car gets harmed but I like to have my personal time too. Not too great as a toss around car (handling) like a modern day 2dr Ferrari which is lighter and nimble. Now that I have owned it for almost a year I can see why some may think Lambo owners are posers, yes I have to admit the car really stands out (look at this ride ) but in reality I purchased one so I can experience what this car is all about and what it would do for me and believe me I already knew it wasn't the fastest or best handling car when I decided to buy it but for the experience. I wouldn't buy one again but probably keep the car for the history of it's famed looks. In all reality I wouldn't even think of owning a Mcllaren before an Enzo, at least it is easier to get into and Enzo instead of crawling over to the middle of the seat. We have to live in reality, do most of you all purchase an exotic to race most of the time? I know the answer is no. Did you buy your first Ferrari because of it's power and speed? I didn't, it was the looks, it is a Ferrari! call it what you want- looks is important too and I put it first on the list. Hey if it looks good for the most part it will come with good handling and power, don't most high end cars come like that? most of them do! As far as supercars go, when I saw the Saleen up close and sat in one, the construction looked very poor and fragile, especially the doors- the car must perform well I'm sure although I have not driven one It's skyrocketing price tag is not worth the purchase as the Enzo is close to the price and you know the is no arguement over which would you rather prefer. If money is not a concern, the Enzo wins in my books in the supercar category in all areas- power, braking, and most of all easier to get into for weekly driving. Lambo is a high production car compared to and F50- Enzo- Mcllaren or some other ones I missed but for the dollar the Lambo straight out factory stock was the best value in looks, power,looks, looks ah you know what I mean so I hope this helps out for some of those who never had the experience of owning a Lambo or Ferrari. My advice-- spend more time making money get your own ride and experience it for real and not cyberworld, hey, that is the only way you would know your own real judgement, that's what I did... Oh I must add- you can't find a better slushbox straight factory fresh that can beat the SL55, it puts some exotics in embarrassment. I love Mercedes too by the way- sleeper mobile that is very comfortable to drive everyday. My Ml55 slushvan opens up many eyes when they see how much pull this heavy mini SUV has as far as stock, I'm thinking of pumping this puppy up with some even more secret sleeper power just for fun to see how much more pull I can get from it. I raced off the line against one of my customers JDM motor Civic and the torque of the ML pulled away from a 1/8 mile distance just for curiosity in a private parking lot behind our shop which was limited on space, hey it's better than on the street. Oh, I must add he lost his right leg in a car accident for speeding through traffic against someone. I'm keeping it real, I buy a car for the street weather luxury or exotic and keep it for the street. I wanna race, I buy a car I can afford to wreck and build it strickly for the track and have fun and absolutely no worries if I wreck it, unlike taking and F50 out to a track and total it, put that into your thoughts, unless you are Bill F***** Gates or some Multi millionaire who has nothing better to spend money on. Damn, I'm done for now.... | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 216 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mike B whats your best ET? My friend drags a 68 chev. 11.30s, not bad for a 3800lb sled. How about 60ft. times? Mojo | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 219 Registered: 6-2002 |
I for one prefer mph, rather than ET, as ET shows more driver skill rather than the cars power. Im not interested in finding out who is a better driver, but which car is faster. | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
New member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hmmm... same concept different thread on the whole "professional racing" thing... Well, I'll make the same comment. Just do a little research on the Corvette C5R/Viper GTS contraversy, the Saleen contraversy, etc. to see how there can be plenty of "BS" in the pros too. You get in to the politics of which team is more well financed, which team has more political influence, which track favors what design, etc. etc. As long as there are people who care who wins, there will be BS and argument. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mark, I just gotta criticize this one point... high MPH wins? What's up with that? That's like racing 10 laps on a road course and saying "whoever brakes latest into turn 3 wins!". Drag racing already has it's own set of rules. The winner is decided based on reaction time and ET. That's what drag racing is all about. MPH is the factor that is rarely affected by how good (or bad) the driver is. To say "high MPH wins" is to say "let's decide the outcome based on the one factor that the driver has no control of". What you're suggesting is a horsepower contest. If that's the game being suggested, better to go to any dynojet and determine the winner that way. Mark, I am not trying to come down on you - but I drag race a LOT and I love the sport. I've beaten much faster cars because I was able to get the car down the track faster. If I race Allan, and his car is actually faster - that don't mean squat if he can't launch it. That's the beauty of drag racing... it's about who can get from here to there in the quickest period of time after the signal is given. It's a perfect representation of who would win a stoplight drag. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, there is Viper days event in Pocono this April. It is timed event and does not require a roll bar. I have the harness. What do you think? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 560 Registered: 5-2002 |
I thought that most race cars were prepared as identically as possible due to class rules, and that victory went to the best DRIVER with the most SKILL. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2002 |
This thread is a waste of time ... A race is never fair unless it is a real championship race, otherwise bullsh!t is involved ... like unsanctioned modifications like NOS, etc. That is why they invented homologation ... and REAL cars race against other cars ... street cars just don't matter, because they are cheating and it is just plain imature. I could make my people mover van blow a Lambo away if I was stupid enough to pour enough money and technology at it ... but why to win a traffic light Grand Prix ... no thanks! Thus who cares ... I will only be interested if they are REALLY racing ... then the bullsh!t stops and victory goes to the best RACE car. Pete | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 316 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, it looks like solo I requires a roll bar, harness, and a driving suit. I think I'd be willing to add those. Real racing at high speed http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo1/index.html Schedule, I see VIR in june http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo1/div_sch.html | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 315 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, By sanctioned, I mean an actual race event run by the SCCA, and not just a track day event. Safety is the reason I make this distinction. Normally, timing is not actually allowed at track day events (although most people do it). The day is really just a chance to let you drive your car fast in a controlled environment. At a race, the point is to be first, which means driving the b*lls off it. In competition, the chance mishaps is many times higher and there is much less chance of recovering. To deal with the added risk, the sanctioning body requires the car to be equipped such that the drive is likely to survive in the event of an accident. That means a roll cage, 5 or 6 point hardness, proper seat, arm straps usually. 70 or 80 mph is about the fastest they like to let you go in competition through corners without a cage. At the drag strip where the car is going straight, they let you go faster, but again, as speed picks up, I think it�s 10 seconds/150mph, you need a cage and a license. I don�t believe either or our cars are properly prepared to go out on a road course and actually race with any reasonable level of safety and I won�t be a part of it. Nor will I be a part of an actual race on a public road, killing ourselves would be bad enough, killing someone who has nothing to do with it, well that would be much much worse. That said, I�ve been to solo IIs that run over 1 min/lap, but if you�d like to name a stand in for you or your car, that would be fine. The car�s got to be registered for the street though, I think that�s fair. Although if your cars not there I don�t know what we�ll learn. I�d be willing to show at a drag event, high mph wins. I will concede that your car has a high top speed than mine. That�s the best I can do though. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 844 Registered: 8-2002 |
Anyone remember Sprockets, from SNL, with Deiter (Mike Myers)...? "Do you want to touch my monkey...?" | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 499 Registered: 8-2001 |
Des, you're scaring me. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 841 Registered: 8-2002 |
Paul, that turns me on. Can i rub salad dressing all over you while you're wearing it...? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 987 Registered: 12-2001 |
I stopped wearing panties, now I just wear a thong. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1023 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan, maybe Lamborghini owners arent smart enough to figure out how to use the EDIT button? LOL... Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 217 Registered: 6-2002 |
Now Paul, dont get your panties in a bunch! Nice 308 by the way. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 983 Registered: 12-2001 |
You are right allan that just because its a ferrari site it doesnt mean we win. Im sure your SV could beat my 308. Paul Newman. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 216 Registered: 6-2002 |
Matt, maybe Ferrari owners arent smart enough to figure out sarcasm? I do agree on the Lambolist though. Most people there own old Lambos, Espadas, Jaramas etc. Most are posers, etc. A few are pretty cool and really drive their cars, but most dont.Its pretty much a very boring site. I also am one who comes here to talk about Ferraris, and i own one to. I post on numerous other boards and have on many occasions defended the Ferrari mark, especially on the Nsx board, where they feel Nsx's are superior to Ferraris. They also were none to happy with me, even though i own an Nsx. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 215 Registered: 6-2002 |
Matt, maybe Ferrari owners arent smart enough to figure out sarcasm? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3527 Registered: 5-2001 |
Gheez, is that a religious thing?  | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1022 Registered: 2-2001 |
Pat, the lambolist is at www.lamborghinilist.com You can maybe argue the need to clear people to POST on the threads, but to READ them? Ridiculous... Ernesto | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2002 |
I don't come here to talk about Viper's but when wrong statments are made by people that never drove one I jump in. I'm here to learn about f cars. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2195 Registered: 9-2001 |
hey maybe we can make our own fast and furious movie where's vin diesel? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1257 Registered: 8-2002 |
Allan, That is his real name. I guess Lambo owners arn't that smart either. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 214 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ernesto, the lap times were gathered by different drivers and some years appart. Even if one driver was used, what if he had more experience behind the wheel of one versus the other? Tom, i think you hit the nail on the head. I never claimed that all Lambos are faster than all Ferraris. Paul Newman, I dont give a •••• what you think. This was a Ferrari and Lambo thread, just because this is a Ferrari forum means that Lambos lose? I dont think so, and while your at it, get a real name!lol | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Junior Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2002 |
Whats the address of the lambo list? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3118 Registered: 12-2000 |
What do I think about this thread? Not much, to tell you the truth except that we broke the single thread record. Actually considering the topic and personalities the flames haven't been too crazy. I think the "vs" threads on this board lure in the rookie users and those with a direct personal interest (they own one of the cars compared). I think some of the experienced users find the holes and weaknesses and then attack. I've been involved with these several times and I just haven't been in the mood to get involved this time. To be honest, I've only read maybe about 10% of all the posts. There are too many variables... - arbitrary valuations vs. facts - modifications - same comparison criteria - driver skill I love Ferrari, I like some other cars, but I LOVE Ferrari. I'm not in some dream world about them being the fastest cars on the street or the best value under some criteria. I never ever feel the need to visit the Vette, Viper, or Lambo boards to talk Ferraris. I'm not sure why so many others come here to talk other than Ferraris. It's my OPINION that this one sided phenomenon is very telling.  | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2193 Registered: 9-2001 |
thanks | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2002 |
TomD, I've not been on the lambo list all that long, but when I was going through past messages, there were indeed a few posts about people bickering over whether a TR is "better" than a Countach, and that sort of thing. It probably doesn't happen so much, since the lambo list is hard to get to (it's not easy to participate in like this site is). Also, it's a much smaller group of people, and it's very easy to "boot" someone, so I tend to think that such arguments don't happen that often on the lambo list. AND, we all know that all Lambo owners are just posers and incapable of defending their car's performance since posing doesn't give them an idea of what their machine can do (just kiddin Allan). Ernesto, I was just teasing you about the troll comment. I'm surprised you weren't let back in. Did you get a reason why? I'm a member and I'll ask the list administrator if you like why you would not be allowed on. As far as I can tell, it's not a Lambo OWNER list exclusively, but rather for anyone interested in these machines. Maybe they know you are a former Supra guy and that was the nail in your coffin? heh.. just teasing. Regarding the races being discussed - Viper days is a GREAT venue for wringing one's car out. There is a lot to be said for not street racing - I think most of us have quite a bit to lose being arrested for something like that. However, drag strips are everywhere, and just about every road course track will have a list on their website of clubs who have the track rented and when, and most clubs (in my experience) are happy to have people along to help defray the cost to them. I think anyone would be NUTS not to welcome an F40 and a Diablo SV to the mix. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 282 Registered: 10-2002 |
The only time my car raced a Lambo was in 1967. The Lambo didn't finish.  | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Junior Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 128 Registered: 10-2002 |
WHAT HAVE I STARTED!!!!!!! I am still trying to decide if I like this thread or what is now the continuation. I have definitly got my answer so if any of you guys want to branch it out from here feel free. I am trying to think of my next topic I might start but I figure I'll wait to see if this ever dies. I'd love to hear Rob's opinion on this thread. I am not sure if he'll throw me a calendar or ban me for starting all this drama. Thanks for all the stories | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1453 Registered: 4-2002 |
ERNIE AMD MATT YOU DONT NEED ME YET, ILL SAVE IT FOR ED GAULT, WOP MOBILE, OR RICHARD VISSEY... BRUCE | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1021 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mike, I used to be a lurker on the lambolist b/c I enjoy reading about and staying informed on many types of cars. Since they changed their format I have not had access. How do you decide who is a troll before you even know anything about the person who is applying? I think its ridiculous. I think closed-off forums are just afraid to hear other points of view. BTW, when manufacturers and magazines bring cars to test at the N-Ring, they usually go all out to the limit. Lap times at the Ring are bragging rights. According to the site I linked, all laps were done by the same driver on a dry track for Sport Auto Magazine. Same track, same length, same conditions, same driver. Ernesto | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2191 Registered: 9-2001 |
Mike So on the lambo site there are Ferrari owners who claim there car is faster than a lambo etc. And when I say Ferrari owners I mean they just own ferraris not a lambo too. Again, just curious since I don't frequent the other sites | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2002 |
Matt and I'm sure that the 550 was all stock LOL | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2002 |
A few comments: 1) Regarding the "levels", a car that is an aftermarket tuner edition of a factory car can raise the car's level a LITTLE BIT, but certainly never more than one level. A Callaway C12 is still a Corvette. A Saleen Mustang is still a Mustang. A Saleen S7 is a Saleen, not a Mustang, and gets evaluated on it's own (and placed in Level 2). 2) Some people have started talking about how their cars relate based on speed. Remember, speed is only one aspect of a car's level. The fastest Mustang is still a Mustang. A Supra is still a Supra, and although it could be faster than a Diablo, it ain't no Diablo (calm down Allan, we all know a Diablo is light years ahead of a Supra in the grand scheme of things) 3) Quoting times from various tracks is USUALLY meaningless, unless two cars had the same driver, same track, same day, same level of experience. Have any of you guys driven the Nurburgring? It's not the kind of track you would be tossing a $275k Murcielago around trying to find the very limits of the car. At least I wouldn't. Most of the times I see quoted on the 'ring seem a bit off anyway... 4) Regarding whether this is the only site where others come - no, it certainly isn't. I'm a member of probably 20 different automotive sites and they all have this sort of "discussion" Ernesto - the lambo list is moderated, it's not that there is an exclusive process whereby one can gain access. I think they just try to keep the trolls out . They let me in - and I'm not a lambo owner and never have been, although I WOULD LOVE to own a Murci and have been looking at used Diablos - but I'm sure not an owner of a Lambo anymore than of a Ferrari. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1017 Registered: 2-2001 |
I've been waiting for you to chime in Bruce. Its about time! Ernesto | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1252 Registered: 8-2002 |
Fire away Brother. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1450 Registered: 4-2002 |
YOU GUYS NEED ME FOR THIS "ALAN SITUATION" OR WANT ME TO SIT BACK AND OBSERVE??? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1016 Registered: 2-2001 |
Tom, I believe the phenomenon you speak of is limited to FerrariChat. I guess that is why the forum at lamboghinilist is CLOSED off to outsiders, and you must APPLY to even READ the posts. I applied, and of course got rejected. They are the smart ones, probably less crap going on there... just lots of talk about where to find bigger wings, scoops and stickers for their cars. Ernesto | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1250 Registered: 8-2002 |
Allan, Get a tape measure already. Stop sniffing the NOS and drop it. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1015 Registered: 2-2001 |
Calm down Allan... Five posts in a 12 minute span... LOL... breath in, breath out... breath in, breath out... I bought my Supra (white) new at Kendall Toyota and Lance at Toyoto worked on it while I was there. Since I moved to PR local mechanics have done most of the work. I dont know Imrod... I moved from Miami in early 95. I knew Rodney who had a black Supra and a black turbo GS300. I certainly hope that at least one match will result from this 500+ post thread. I wish I still lived in the Continental USA... Hopefully I will again soon. Ernesto | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2189 Registered: 9-2001 |
just curious and I not trying to stir things up but on other car sites do F-car owners go on there and say their F-car will beat this or that or is it just something that happens on ferrari sites as people try to measure up to the premier name? BTW I like both F-cars and lambos and I am sure some LAmbos will beat ferraris and some ferraris will beat lambos | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 981 Registered: 12-2001 |
Who gives a s.h.i.t about you lambo allan? I dont. I dont care how fast it is, whether you use NOS, how big your weenie is, I just dont care. You think your SV is the best, I think ferraris are the best. You will never win your argument on a ferrari site about your lambo being better. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 213 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also the Nurburgring is very hard on the brakes, and a Vipers stock brakes arent its best feature.Power is not as important as total balance on the Nurburgring. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 212 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also the Nurburgring is very hard on the brakes, and a Vipers stock brakes arent its best feature. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 211 Registered: 6-2002 |
Adam, Euro Vipers have less power than the U.S. models dont they? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 210 Registered: 6-2002 |
It says right before the auto times section, some laps were with the track being 20.8Km, some being 20.6km.Some were with the old pit, some with the new. Also the Sv tested was an early model, not the 530hp model i own, also with better brakes.Also note, the Lambos reached a higher rate of speed. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 209 Registered: 6-2002 |
See Ernesto, you need to listen before you speak. I know there are Supras out there that would beat me, i know of many Porsches out there also. I had one of them, it would school your Supra all day. Since your from Miami, you should know Imron, who back in the day had the fastest Supra in the land, i schooled him several times.He is the guy who organised all the Import drag racing events. WHo built your Supra? What color was it? As for my Diablo being fast, it is, and as i said, it would take a hell of a supra to beat me, especially from a first gear roll, and if it was on street tires, i would be so far ahead of it by the time it caught traction there would be no catching me, especially if im on the spray. Dont forget also, my car is lighter than a Supra. As for those lap times, they are inconclusive, if you read on, their is a slight variance in track lengths, and it is unknown as to which was run. You also forgot the Murcielago's 7.50 run, which destroys the 575M. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1249 Registered: 8-2002 |
550's lead the race in the American LeMans. The Vipers were all mid pack. | ||
| Manu (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 603 Registered: 2-2002 |
You need finesse on the 'ring... and the Viper, although awesome, is all about brute force... I disagree with you Adam: There is no way the Viper could be faster than the 550. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2002 |
I don't buy those times. This is BS. 550 no way faster than a Viper. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 211 Registered: 9-2002 |
I noticed a S2000 beat a corvette, It must have been a C4. I always thought a 360 would have faster track times than a 550, but that link shows the 550 as faster. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1012 Registered: 2-2001 |
Here are some lap times for several cars at the Nürburgring. Interesting results indeed. F550 beats Diablo SV, 360M on par with Diablo SV, and a Diablo GT is only 1 sec faster than a 575MM. http://home.swipnet.se/~w-32546/nbring/laptimes%20for%20different%20cars.htm Enjoy. Ernesto I also found this link, which is very interesting. There is a Diablo GT, 911T and various Ferraris... no lap times that I could find though. http://www.nsxfiles.com/viken_event.htm | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1011 Registered: 2-2001 |
Allan is too funny. He thinks his car is fast. LOL! Dont ever race any seriously tuned Supras or 911Ts, because your huge ego trip will take a huge fall. Where I'm from, you dont even think about challenging top dogs on the street with anything less than 800rwhp. A Diablo SV may be fast enough around your little circle of friends, but certainly not be any real challange to REAL fast street cars like Supras, RUFs, and Ling Vettes. I can give you the telephone number of the individual who purchased my Supra (which is now in Florida) if you want to try to challenge a FAST car. Ernesto There is a video of a Zonda KILLING a Murcielago on a track... it wasnt even funny. An F50 would also KILL the Lambo on most any track, with the top off. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 840 Registered: 8-2002 |
i'd just like to point out that the word "spanking" has been mentioned quite a few times in this thread (and the first one)... Does anyone here have a fetish they'd care to admit to...? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 208 Registered: 6-2002 |
Zonda is most certainly faster than a Murcielago. A Saleen in the #1 spot? nah. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, I don't understand...what do you mean by sanction? Why any roadracing is not good? Bring you car to ViperDays at Watkins Glen this spring. They have timing and also I have hot lap timer. Like I said before I don't do any racing if the lap time is under one min. You say that your car is faster so let's find out. I never said that I'm better driver and this is what you want to test me on. I can bring a guy with TT Miata that will spank you in AutoX. Does it mean that his car is faster? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 836 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike, i think performance-wise, the Zonda would be in #1... Magazine report said it's better than the Murcielago (but again, we have that whole marginal error thingie with magazines...) ...& as far as Sentras are concerned, i'll meet you at the track with mine, you be there in your Viper and we can do this...! (Be ready to have your ass handed to you... ) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1894 Registered: 6-2001 |
NOthing is in the mclaren F1/911 GT1/CLK GTR terriroty. there isnt much else in the 1 mill range. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 595 Registered: 10-2001 |
A Saleen is level 1. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2002 |
DES, You are crazy - a Sentra is level 2, not level 1! Allan, Yes, a Diablo GT would go in with the Murci's and F50's, no question. As for the Pagani Zonda - hmm.. good question. I guess that would be a level 2 car, just because it's not as exclusive as the F1 or CLK-GTR. As for the Enzo, yes, it would be level 1 but only briefly, after which time it will fall to level 2. We need a brain-iac to derive the formula for all this so that we can accurately classify all these vehicles! I mean, we already have some people who think their car is much higher than it really is (ouch, shot to JRV!) but with an indisputable formula taking into account production numbers, horsepower, track times (not just the 'ring - but others too), race wins (not marque wins, vehicle wins), sticker price, vehicle age, current value, and all the other variables. Then we can all assign ourselves numbers to know where we fall in line. The rules should be that you automatically lose any argument to a superior ranked person, unless you have the support of 2/3rd majority of those ranked below you. So anyone got a McLaren F1 and a CLK-GTR and wants to take the #1 spot? I got dibs on #74! | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adam, Sanctioned race events only. No sanction, no race. I can't negotiate on that point. I would consider a solo I event, but I need to check the rules, I think they require a roll bar and harness at a minimum. I might be ok adding that, but if they require a full cage, I'm not willing to do that. | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2002 |
How about Pagani Zonda? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 205 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, are you crazy! My car is much better than a Mclaren F1! lol I agree on most of what you said actually. I agree that an F40 outranks my Diablo, but id place a Diablo Gt with it in the rankings.And you forgot the Pagani Zonda C12S, and Ferrari Enzo, for me those are in Mclaren F1 catagory. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 833 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike, you never included Sentras in Level 1... If you're gonna make a list like that, at least make it complete, damnit... | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2002 |
Guys, Aren't we arguing about the automotive food chain here? I think we can all agree with the following regarding the food chain: Level 1 - The McLaren F1 is pretty much in the #1 spot, however you slice it (anyone here have one? wish I did!). Other cars can EQUAL the F1, such as the Mercedes CLK-GTR or F50-LM, but nothing can TOP the F1. This goes without saying. Next to #1 and slightly down from it are the level 2 F40's and F50's and Enzo's... right up there with the EB110's and Murcielagos. There is an intermediate level 3, which holds Diablos, 550's, 575's, GT2's and the like. Level 4 would have to hold the 360's and baby lambo and CL55 and SL55 and the like. Moving on down to 5 we have the 911 turbos, and other cars in the low 100k range. 355's go here. TR's can go here or in level 4! You will note that from the rules below, the 355 will become a level 6 once the prices average in the 80k range - but it's got a few years left. Level 6 contains Vipers, NSX's and 911C4's, etc. I'd put 348's here too since they were eclipsed by the 355 in horsepower. Older GenI Vipers are hard pressed to stay in this level. Most likely they are really Level 7. Level 7 would be Corvettes, Supras, RX7's and Boxsters. Level 8 are the cheap performance cars like Camaros, Mustangs, Firebirds, as well as the semi-sports cars like the new 350Z, S2000 ,etc. Older cars that no longer retain their past glory such as C4 Corvettes go here too. Level 9 is the dregs. Cars that have really lost it and aren't even considered performance cars anymore go here. Cars like 1985 RX7's or the really old Supras occupy this rung. A full and perfect restoration can get a car to move up from a level 9 to an 8 or maybe even a 7, but no higher. Now I think we can agree on some rules of these levels. First of all, MSRP has nothing to do with anything... only the value of the vehicle TODAY. The value of a vehicle is market value, "appraised value" means nothing. Perceived additional value from mods means nothing either. Second, age plays a factor - the older the car, the lower it is. Horsepower plays a part too - with higher HP raising the car in stature (but ONLY factory horsepower, HP from modifications don't count). Handling plays a part, but not as much as horsepower does. The number of a vehicle produced matters also - the number per year a little, but moreso the total number made. Variations on a model count as a new model, if they are different enough (i.e. a 328 is different enough from a 308, but a 355 targa is not different enough from a 355 spyder) - in general, if the model name or number is different, it's usually unique. Maybe someone can come up with a mathematical formula for all this? Now, usually arguments happen between neighboring levels. We can see Allan arguing with the next guy up, and the nex guy down. We don't see Allan arguing with the guys in level 8, because he's enough above that there is no question of that. The further apart in level, the more vocal the lower level person will be. A Camaro guy may feel secure that his car is really "better" than a Corvette, but he's gonna have to flame pretty hard to convince himself he can hang with a Level 6 guy! I think we can all see clearly that... -Unless Allan has a McLaren F1, the guy with the F40 outranks him. -Allan outranks Ernesto with his 360. -The Testarossa, because it's such a COOL car, usually goes in Level 4, unless it's an old ragged on version, in which case it becomes level 5. -JRV's 328 would go between level 7 and 8 -My camaro race car doesn't even register on the list -Trucks, sedans (unless sport sedans), and anything non-performance does not register on the list at all. (note: the following is intended to be humorous... if it pi$$es you off, seek counseling... if you wish to debate where your car falls, please don't bother since this whole post is a joke and not worthy of real discussion). | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 203 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oh wow, Ernesto, The Great Pretender is back! Your right about the Nos, if it runs out, i may lose. But i did run into a single turbo supra recently, and we did have little go at it, from about 40 to maybe 120, and you know what? I didnt need the nos. Des, dont get your hopes up as to a race, he's in Kansas, im in Arizona. Also, i love how you people constantly think that a Diablo cant turn or brake. Are you really that closed minded? I stated i dont have the skills of a track driver, the car most certainly does. For instance take a look at the figures published in Road and Track, where a Vt 6.0, one of the heaviest Diablos available, out accelerates, out brakes, out slaloms, pulls more lateral G's than your almighty F50. I know that magazine figures are not the ultimate test, but theyre still good for comparison. Take a look at some of the recent track times posted by the Murcielago also, and compare them to the Ferrari 575M, where the 575M loses to an autobox Sl55. 99.9% of you will never see a race track, if you have a run in with another car, it will be on the street. Watch out! And by the way, as to me wanting an F40 and getting into a pissing match with Chris, if i wanted an F40 that badly i could have one easily, and their is no pissing match between us. Both are great cars. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
New member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2002 |
>Mike B: > >Your comments about the Vipers are what one >would expect from someone who makes their >living selling to Viper owners. The tone you >used however tells us a lot about you. You >sound like you need an anger management class >or some antipsychotic drugs. I suggest you take >a little time to read what you post, before you >post it. You may be a good guy, but from your >posts you come across as a total jerk. Arthur Chambers, I make a living selling to Viper owners? I think you have me confused with someone else. My company makes electronics products for vehicles, and we do have some Viper customers, but we also have Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, etc, etc customers. We're by NO means a Viper shop or anything close to it. As a matter of fact, most of our business is overseas. Either you've confused me with someone else, or your dirt-digging exercise didn't work too well. I never said anything about what I do for a living - if there's a question, why not just ask? I also find it ironic that in your post criticizing me for my comments to another, you pull out the flame thrower and suggest I need anger management and drugs. Funny, because I've never once called anyone a name, unlike JRV over there. It's amusing watching him get all riled up, but it's also telling that you immediately jump on his side. He thinks I'm envious of Ferraris (or maybe HIS Ferrari?) and insults my car, calling it a UPS truck and he has a whole bunch of vehicles more valuable than it, and claims I can't afford to pay for it whereas he paid cash, etc. Isn't that a lot more telling? The guy immediately launches nukes at the first hint of someone not groveling over his car. Note to JRV - I'm not the only one who doesn't get all excited over a 1980's 3-series. Not everyone loves those cars - and I'm one of 'em. Sorry if that stings the ego??? Art, The bottom line is that he's pissed because I don't like 308's or 328's. They are not valuable cars, in my experience. They are cheap and therefore aren't hard to afford. That says NOTHING about the car itself. The 308 I rode in was a pretty cool car - restored to mint condition I can see why people like them. But anyone who doesn't respond to JRV's boasting by agreeing that any Ferrari is the best car in the world is a jerk? That's how you feel? And you're saying I'm the one with issues??? JRV is the one slamming the Viper and incessantly talking about how much better his car is. I think he's the one with issues. As I said, the Viper will never be a Ferrari.. and an old 308 (or whatever) will never be in the same league as an F40 (or 360). Both of those statements are facts. As for Vipers - they are very potent on a track. My friends F40 would eat me alive... but I can take his son in their TR. Never raced my buddy in the TR with me in the Viper. 1/4 mile I think I can take any Ferrari stock vs. stock - even an F50, just because I think I can outdrive 'em! | ||
| eli (ali) Latif (Ninja_eli)
New member Username: Ninja_eli Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2002 |
So what it amounts to is : My car is the fastest and will beat everyone, but only in a straightline. Also it is the best. Not quite so if it cannot take the corners, not to most DRIVERS, they prefer to feel g force sensations, oh and also because not all roads are straight. Personally I think the gauntlet has been thrown down by Chris (thank God for people like you mate!!), and the Diablo should run its chance in the twisties, as well as trying the straights, then you get a fuller picture. My monies would be on the F40.... | ||
| Adam (Eldiablo_viper)
Junior Member Username: Eldiablo_viper Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, I have been to the Glen 2 times and it is 5 hr drive for me so it is not so much home LOL. But how about VIR? I have never been there. I did Mid-Ohio, Poconos and Limerock. What tracks have you been to? How about a quick street race just for fun before the tracks open?. If you win I'll buy you a dinner and set you up with 1000HP Supra or 500HP Vette or 700HP Viper. Oh...I don't race on parking lots...I take my X5 there LOL. I find it boring plus a little Civic can easy beat me there so it is not a test of a car. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1239 Registered: 8-2002 |
The irony is that Allan wants a F-40 and he is in a pissing contest with Chris. I'd like to see Allan's nitros diablo make that right turn after the 1/4 straight. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2002 |
It seems the "best" car is a product of what you intend to do with it. Nothing more. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1006 Registered: 2-2001 |
LOL... Allan was critisizing my use of race gas on my ex-Supra and he uses NOS on his Diablo? I suppose there is NOS at every corner gas station to fill up? Wow thats great for everyday horsepower. What do you do when you run out of NOS in the middle of a race? Chris, just race him for a five-mile stretch. When that little NOS bottle runs out he'll be toast. That's pretty funny that a Diablo nees the juice to run fast... Ernesto PS. My money is on the F40 for any type of race that includes multiple runs and/or decent distances. Maybe we should start a FerrariChat Pool... | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 160 Registered: 9-2002 |
all i have to say is tell me when it is and where....I will make it a point to get there...and you MUST BRING AT LEAST 3 DIGI CAMS...one in each car, one outside at start, one mid way along, one near end...one outside one...hehe please do soo...I could get my roomate to edit it and make a killer movie! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 815 Registered: 8-2002 |
Wow... i'm all starry-eyed... the titans of Ferrari Chat might duke it out, head to head, mano-a-mano, Diablo & F40... Please, fellas, try to set this up in advance, if you do it, so we can all come and see it... (on a weekend, if at all possible)... i feel a brick forming in my bowels, just THINKING about it...! | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 536 Registered: 3-2002 |
Allan, my F40 is 2,940 lbs. HP at the rear wheel is a 482. I suspect without nitrious it would at least be entertaining to see these 2 cars run side by side. With nitrous I suspect you are well over 600 at the rear wheel, maybe alot more than that. Have fun! | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 535 Registered: 3-2002 |
I guess I should have read the 470+ posts before! Nitrous on a Lambo.......... oh well............... | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 534 Registered: 3-2002 |
Did somebody say Nitrous? mmmmmmmmmm cheater fuel. Are you sure Allan is not John Force? Sure sounds like a funny car to me! (no wonder this guy only wants to go straight!, too fast to turn!) | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Junior Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 202 Registered: 6-2002 |
150-200shot, depends on the jets i use. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 333 Registered: 3-2002 |
Allan, how big of a shot is your Nitrous? | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 533 Registered: 3-2002 |
Allan, I have stayed out of this but.... I have a 12 year old Ferrari, high mileage 10,685 miles) that tends to smoke when you accelerate it that I would put a few dollars up to see what it would do against your Lambo. Chris Posted on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 1:15 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Allan to Chris: Are you trying to challange me in your 12 year old F40? Bring it on!!!!! F40, nice car, driven a few, against my Sv, not a chance Posted on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 1:22 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris to Allan; Allan, its not exactly stock.......... ....but we have to turn, straight line is for John Force. left, right, ten laps, you name the track. You can have any driver you want to drive your car, I have a friend named Grant that will drive mine. just an old Dino (as Frank would say)........... Posted on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 1:32 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Allan to Chris; No, i drive me own car, we go straight ahead. Dont worry, mines not exactly stock either. I have no doubt an F40 is a better and faster track car. Lambo is far heavier, brakes will go out much quicker, etc. Dont think im knocking your car, F40 is my favorite Ferrari. I have great memories of going 160 down the back straight at Moroso in Palm Beach in one. Awesome. ------------------------------------------------- Chris to Allan; Allan, I really do not know that much about SV's, I have only been in one Diablo, and it was pretty wild. What is your car making for horsepower at the rear wheel (have you dynoed it?) What do you expect you would do on top end? I know these things are brutual fast. I suspect you are right about being a pig on the track,brakes are your biggest enemy, just like a F40. My F40 was disappointing until we put brakes and new suspension underneath it. We added about 100bhp to get it to be a little quicker......... but I am about to put drop gears in to make it even quicker, at the expense of top end, it will go from 203 to about 175, but it should get there very fast! | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 332 Registered: 3-2002 |
I just figured we can continue the thread in this section, this will help the Neanderthals with low bandwith. So let's here about this F40 vs. Lambo!!!! |