| Author | Message | ||
| Kurt Kjelgaard (Kurtk328)
|
About the partsbook Saudi Arabia bypass pipe: I ordered one (for my ´86 US 328) and realised when I saw it, that it has no provision for the oxygen sensor. Instead I got a Tubi pipe - price is about the same, approx. 2500 FFR equals about 350 USD. brgds Kurt | ||
| Jhann2 (Jhann2)
|
Want a replacement for the cat on your 308/328 car? Go to the Ferrari parts book, exhaust section and order the pipe used for Saudi Arabia that goes in the same place where the cat is located for US cars. Inexpensive, easy to install/remove and available from your friendly Ferrari discount store. example: T. Rutland's. | ||
| Bret M |
Thanks. I'm looking around for deals and if I come across one I'll probably go for it. In the mean time I plan on putting in Nick's cheater pipes in my stock exhaust. I'll see how that works, I think I'll like it and probably just stick with that. It's got potential. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
|
Bret, the cheapest exhaust system is the one from Stebro for about USD 1,250. I have one for my Mondial but haven't had the chance to test it out yet, but the product itselves makes a very good impression. They deliver it with sound reduction pipes, you can put in or take out depending which noise level you like. I also looked back in history through my old magazines and it seams to me that Borla has come down in pricing rather than up. I only was able to go back 2/3 years but at that time the Borla exhaust was priced at 2,995.- so I am wondering a bit. David, are you sure that it is a Borla and not a Stebro or something else? Also, I like WalMart and if they have the product I like (Mobil 1 sync) then I buy it there. Be careful with cheap oil, I would only recommend it to people who like to make their mechanics happy but it sure is not the way to go if you want to save money. | ||
| Paul Sloan
|
Bret, I don't think Nicks post was directed at you I belive it was directed at the post that thought Nicks price was "excessive". That comment was harsh and truly incorrect and I can understand Nicks reaction. There is a site you should keep an eye for a used Borla besides e-bay, try www.longdeal.com/ferrariparts and if I see one in the market letter I will let you know. But I highly recommend Nicks SS test pipes, I did that mod first and then did the Borla when I bought a used one. Also ask Nick to let you know if he comes across a used one. | ||
| David Prall |
Don't worry Bret; I think the chastising was aimed at me - not you. I've bought and sold Ferrari parts for about 10 years now, and I have concluded 2 things: Prices vary depending on the seller as well as the buyer; and, many buyers seem not to be overly concerned about price. It appears that most of the owners posting here do care about the costs for operating and maintaining their cars. So, I would simply share with all of them that shopping around can definitely pay off. I am certainly critical of $2500 for a 308 Borla system -- I am not, however, criticizing Nick's character or business practices -- for all I know, he could be paying $2499 and selling them for a measly dollar profit. My point merely is that there are sources that can sell the systems for less. A quart of oil at my local Ferrari dealer costs $5.95, but I prefer to go to Wal-Mart and pay 89 cents (the cars don't seem to mind that I'm such a tightwad). | ||
| Bret M |
Sorry it comes out to $2450 not $2500 like I said earlier. And anyway it would be over 2500 if you include shipping. I mean come on, no one is here to condemn you or anything I'm just bringing up the fact that I'm not ready to spend that much money on an exhaust for my 308. I am considering switching to cheater pipes instead of cats, but my exhaust functions perfectly so it's not like I have to switch any of it. If I come across a good slightly used one I might consider it. I've heard of quite a few people either getting used ones from you or other people, this is the approach that I will take if I go to another exhaust. No one here is implying that you are trying to screw anyone, that is why everyone, including myself, bring up the fact that you're a good place to go to. The fact that I say that you quote this as price is meant to suggest that this is just about the best price around, leading into the fact that I don't want to spend that much and I may go the route of just the pipes. | ||
| Nick Scianna
|
Hi.All you guys out there oh ,and that one GAL!. who have dealt with me,and who know me,the last thing I care is about how much I can SUCK OUT OF YOUR WALLETS AT ONE TIME,THAT'S NOT WHAT I AM ABOUT.I am going to cut and past the complete e mail on that quote on the BORLA so you can decide for yourselves. HERE IS THE CUT AND PASTE Hi.The k&N is 59.00 it should be next day.I am located in Washington state,The machine shop is in Ferndale,the service dept/auto shop is in Blaine.A fully polished Borla would be 2,194 dollars,stock cats are fine,if you want more power use are test pipes,they are 249.00.Stock headers are fine also.The Borla is a lower tone and slightly louder.But it does make your car run allot more efficient and with the test pipes you will generate a big noticeable difference in horsepower.Thanks, Nick Scianna. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Scianna, Nick #754" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:48 PM Subject: 85 GTSqv > Hey Nick, > > I have a '85 308GTSqv and I am looking to switch to a K&N airfilter. The > part number is 33-2518, how long would it take you to get it (or do you have > it in stock)? Also, where are you located? My other question is how much > does a Borla exhaust cost for my car? Could I put the stock cats on it (I am > thinking of getting the cheater pipes but I am worried that it would be too > loud)? Do you use the stock headers when the exhaust is switched? > > Thanks, > Bret JUST FOR THE RECORD! ALSO IN THE DEALER AGREEMENT WITH BORLA IF THEY FIND OUT THAT YOU ARE DISCOUNTING THIER PRODUCT MORE THAN 5% THEY WILL STOP DEALING WITH YOU!THE BORLA TO ME IS A BIG DEAL AS I FEEL IT IS THE FINEST EXHAUST OUT THERE AND WE USE IT AS PART OF OUR DEVELOPEMENT PACKAGE FOR OUR ENGINES.I AM ALWAYS THERE FOR MY CLIENTS I WILL BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO HELP A FELLOW FERRARI OWNER!current borla prices are as follows off of current pricelist.$2194.49 for 308 carb,fuel inj and 4 valve. 1984 Mondial/328 USA $2089.49 if you wish to confirm call 1 805 986 8940 ask for Dennis Barton,he is a sales rep,very together guy.ALL OF THESE NEW SYSTEMS ARE FULLY POLISHED NOW.For all of my clients out there,you know who you all are,thanks for the support.Caio.Nick.. | ||
| scianna
|
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| Christiank (Christiank)
|
David: I think the best would be if you would contact Borla or anybody else for pricing on that specific exhaust system in question BEFORE calling anybody excessive in pricing. That would help. Thanks | ||
| David Prall |
I paid $800 US for a new, twin muffler, non-cat (includes bypass pipes) system for my '81 308. This was in late '97 -- Borla. | ||
| Paul Sloan |
Nicks in the USA (Washington State)and the price he gave you includes his custom made SS cat bypass pipes ($250 for the pair) so his borla price is very reasonable. Go to www.italiancarparts.com and see that an off brand muffler is $1900. Borla for $2250 or off brand for $1900 this is not a tough decision + Nick is always there to answer your questions and help. PS. His bypass pipes are a work of art and what a difference. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
|
FYI when I checked the prices on the system that I got with my car (a 4 muffler no cat system) for the TR it was priced at approx $3800.00 USD | ||
| David Prall |
Yeah, call Borla (877)462-6752. I don't know if they still sell directly, but I bought my last system directly through them. I also don't know what the current prices are, but they're a lot less than $2500 -- I think 'Nick' is in Canada, so I wonder if his price is $CD or $US?? $2500 US would be excessive... | ||
| Bret M |
I talked to Nick and he said that for the Borla with the cheater pipes it would be like $2500. I don't think I really want to spend this much on an exhaust, I don't really need it. Nick seems to be the one of the best places around though so I kind of want to use him, but I can't see myself spending that much. Is there anywhere around that has slightly used ones or lower prices? Where would the best place to look be? Would the cheater pipes alone make a big difference? Maybe I should just do that. | ||
| Paul Sloan |
I own 1983 308QV and all had 2 cats, If you have a little red warning light on each side of the steering wheel (cyl.1-4 & cyl.5-8) these are the cat overheat warning lights,one for each cat. Please read my earlier posts about the Borla and test pipes supplied by Nick. | ||
| David Prall |
Fred: Yeah, definitely do a dry fit before you buy -- the same system will not fit both those applications (Carbed / QV) -- you may be looking at extensive ($$) mods or a 'no go'. Negotiate your purchase price accordingly. | ||
| ANGELO ALBANESE (Lbanez)
|
Fred, if the muffler came off a carbed car it will not fit your 83QV , check and make sure, the QV has only one cat, the system you are talking about has 2 cats, different hookup.....check it out first......Ang | ||
| Fred Thomas |
Thanks for eveyones input. I talked to my mechanic and he said he would sell me the exhaust system for $500. It has about 1000 miles on it. The guy that had it before said it didn't work well with his carbed 308. My mechanic says it will work fine on my fuel injected car. I told him I would take it. Any feedback on way it my not have worked so well on the carbed car? | ||
| Paul Sloan
|
I agree with Wang, speak with Nick. ( www.nicksforzaferrari.com ) I use his SS cat test pipes ($249) along with a Borla and it all just bolted in with no modifications needed. You will need earplugs for the first 30 seconds of a cold start, After that it's just Ferrari music and performance. Hint:do not use cheap stainless Hardware due to high temps and try to re-use springs that factory installed rather than lockwashers. (this was good advice I received from Nick). | ||
| Wang |
I have found Nick Scianna to be very forthcoming and helpful. i recommend that he be contacted for advice. He deals with Borla and can make up an exhaust for you too. Cheers | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Yes, borla has a website, very simple: http://www.borla.com They didn't have too many listings under Ferrari (I think my GT4 was absent from the list). But it seems from other people posting here about Borla, that they are incredibly willing to work with the customer to make a system for their car. Bret, the only reason why I moved the motor was to remove the MANIFOLD, I'll be pulling the motor out, so I need all the room I can get to smoothly hoist the engine out. Any cats installed on other systems would be in plain view underneath the car, so access would be excellent (this is what is seen in the parts catalogue). You shouldn't have a problem removing them to install this system with cheater pipes. A note on sound level: if I plan to spend any more than two hours straight in the car, I need earplugs. Thats the level that I experience with my car (probably around 85-95 dB). | ||
| ANGELO ALBANESE (Lbanez)
|
Paul, the only differance between the cat back and the euro borla, the cat back has one muffler ,both cats dump into, the euro has two mufflers,and bolt directly to your headers,no rocket science to install,they do bolt up very nice, they both sound sweet, not that loud,but they will hear you for 3 blocks in 2nd gear at 6000 rpm, they will be looking for 8 crotch rockets racing side by each , only to see your Ferrari ,at normal speeds ,it sounds throaty.....check them out on the internet,they have full listings.......Ang | ||
| Paul 84-308QV
|
Bret, you are taking the words right out of my mouth. I have an 84 308QV and I am wondering all of the same questions... specifically about it being too loud. I wish someone had an audio clip of before and after from the same microphone distance. My car is a Euro and has no cats. I also have a friendly inspection station. I would want to find an exhaust system that could bolt directly to my pipes. I encourage someone out there to take a shot at answering Bret's questions. Thanks | ||
| Bret M |
I have a 85 308GTSqv. You guys have my thoroughly convinced that it is worth it to make the switch to Borla. My friend has Borla on his Vette and he loves it so I would think their Ferrari exhausts would be sweet. My only questions are: How much do they cost? Where is the best place to get them? How hard are they to install (what does it entail, would I have to move the engine like in the GT4)? Do you replace the headers too? Do they make kits with straight pipes instead of having cats (my inspection place is "friendly" - it's my uncle)? In all honesty, I think my cats right now are pretty close to straight pipes, I don't get the impression that there is much left in them. Would it be so loud that it is too loud to drive around normally, like through town, with straight pipes instead of cats? Thanks, Bret | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi Fred, I had an Ansa on my mondial 8 , it rotted, I replaced is with a Borla, Euro type with no cats,I tossed my radio out ,the music was so sweet from the pipes,then emission testing came to were I live, I had to sell the Borla and bought a Stebro, with the test pipes , then I had to make up new cats for the test,I was very dissapointed with the Stebro, the sound is like a Ford Tempo, I had to make my own tips,the exhaust diameters were way too small,it sounded like crap!!!, the welds on this system are a sight for sore eyes,thank God no one sees it, there are joints that have two elbows cut then welded back together because they don't have the mandrels to make the proper bend, the system fit not bad, but I am going to put another Borla cat back on....., If anyone sees my radio on the street,can you return it to me ,I have to put it back in untill I get my Borla,....just my input | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
If anyone is curious to see, here's the entire exhaust system from my GT4, which I removed last weekend. The muffler is Borla. The Sinistra manifold was a snap to remove, but Destra was a pain! I had to actually lift the motor slightly and push it forward in the engine bay, to make enough room to slip it past the frame tube. the little exhaust-gas analyzer tubes were destroyed in the process, but I had no choice, the nuts were rusted-on solid.  | ||
| paul sloan |
Fred, Performance has increased significantly and the sound is what a Ferrari should sound like. Remember I removed cats too. | ||
| Fred Thomas |
Paul, I have an 83Qv also. When you say improvement is beyond belief,do you mean performance, sound or both? Rattling the neighbors windows sounds kind of cool. Fred | ||
| Paul Sloan
|
I bought a slightly used Borla from Nick at Nicks Forza along with his cat test/replacement pipes and installed them on my 83 QV and the improvement is beyond belief. Beware this set up will rattle the neighbors windows. Tubi's are way overpriced. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Another problem with stainless welding is the backside of the weld must be shielded with the inert gas to prevent oxidation (ie: purging. The muffler canister is filled with a steady flow of shieling gas-argon). If not, the welds are as good as s---. The heat does have an effect too on the temper of the metal and if cooled improperly will cause cracking. Although TIG welding stainless is very easy compared to aluminum and even mild steel, the metal just flows beautifuly in the weld puddle. I enjoy it, too bad I don't get to do enough of it at work. | ||
| David Prall |
Yes -- and that's a major problem area. The box material is so thin (around 20 mil) that the weld areas are tremendously over hardened, which can lead to fatigue cracking. Also, visual examination of welds shows a lot of voids. The internals are a bit fragile as well with only minimal structural support. I'm not saying that Tubi is a bad product -- I just don't feel that there is $2-3K worth of materials and workmanship in their systems. Another huge concern is their after-sales support. The US only has distributors and getting info and service from them is like pulling your own teeth. I made some structural modifications to my 308 for track use, and after "exhausting" all the commercial possibilities, was resigned to making a custom system until I called up Borla. Their staff was tremendously helpful. One of their Engineers actually sent me mechanical drawings for all their 308 system variations. And, after I selected the best approximation, they made custom mods per my request at no extra charge. I run Borla systems on all my vehicles, and have never had a complaint. | ||
| CraigFL
|
David... You mentioned that Tubi has poor quality. What have you seen/heard about this? I know from what I have read that Tubi is very light -- meaning thin SS. | ||
| David Prall |
Fred: The sound is great -- though much deeper at low RPM than stock. One detail regarding the US cars, especially the injected models, is the "clapping" of the Borla (or any free-flow system) at idle. The ignition retarding on these cars can result in an audible clap which can be annoying. This problem can be eliminated by adding resonated tips. Despite my earlier remarks, ANSA actually makes a good after market tip. Using ANSA tips also preserves the original look of the stock system without having to suffer from stock performance. | ||
| Fred Thomas |
Thanks for all the input guys. My mechanic has a borla exhaust that he took off a 308 that the owner is selling. It only has 1000 miles on it. He thinks the owner will sell it to my for a good price. David hows the sound? | ||
| CraigFL
|
Has anyone dealt with a company called Timevalve? http://www.timevalve.com/ | ||
| David Prall |
Borla is absolutely the way to go. I've looked extensively at all 3 (Borla, Tubi, and Stebro). Tubi is outrageously over priced, and ironically, has the poorest buid quality of all three. Stebro's sound is "odd" and the packing material (inside the muffler) is an inferior grade of steel wool -- bad corrosion resistance. Borla has the best construction (good enough to be backed by a lifetime warranty). The trouble with Borla is fitting. Rarely will one fit out of the box. This is minor, and adjustments can be made by DIYers or a muffler shop for very little cost. Incidentally, this problem can happen with all three manufacturers. The problem is not in the exhaust systems, but rather the cars themselves. I've worked on many earlier (pre 86) Ferraris, and all of them have variations in the geometry of the secondary structures (this stuff was all hand built then). If you take even a stock exhaust off of one 308, odds are it won't quite fit up on another -- even same year, model, etc. By the way, almost anything is better than the ANSA garbage that came stock! | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Yes, the original ANSA exhausts rot out, Stainless is forever. Stebro, Tubi, Borla are all good, just depends on your budget. Stebro are Canadian so you may get a good deal because of the exchange. Look in past issues of Forza for Stebro ads, they listed prices for all models (V-8's, V-12's, etc...). My GT4 has a Borla installed by the previous owner, I love the sound from it! | ||
| wang |
Call Stebro PSD Ltd. 1-888-878-3276. email [email protected] They do mail order too. | ||
| Erik Mortensen
|
Pls inform the best place to buy a stebro exhaust for a 1978 308 gtb | ||
| Paul |
I may be going to Italy in the Spring and touring the Ferrari factor. I have an 84 308QV and I have also considered replacing my stock system with Tubi. Does anyone know if I can buy a Tubi system while in Italy, pay a lot less and ship it or hand carry it back to the states? | ||
| wang |
My Ferrari mechanic told me that although Borla makes good exhaust systems, the ones for Ferraris are not satisfactory and there have been complaints. Try Stebro systems, I hear they are quite good and cheaper than Tubi or Borla. Like Bret I am keeping mine stock. Cheers | ||
| Bret M |
There is a brand new Tubi for a 308 qv (I noticed it because I have an 85 GTS) that is going for like 1700 (at least that is what it was at when I looked this afternoon) on ebay right now. Borla is supposed to be basically just as good but less expensive. The Tubi has a better note though (as if the stock one isn't good enough). I was thinking of changing the exhaust but then I just figured it wasn't worth it. The best performance increase would be taking out the cat (I know my inspection guy so that isn't a problem) but I haven't even done that yet. For now I'm just leaving mine alone. Like you, I can't see myself spending $2300 for a Tubi exhaust. I would probably go Borla if I was to change. My friend has Borlas on his Vette and they're sweet. If price wasn't an object though I would go Tubi because they are a hair better and the whole Italian parts on Italian car thing. | ||
| Fred Thomas |
Does anyone have any input on borla exhausts for a 308 qv.I am looking into putting one on. I know tubi is supposed to be really good but they are so expensive. Any feedback on the borla would be appreciated thanks. |