| Author | Message | ||
| Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member Username: Tifosi1 Post Number: 453 Registered: 2-2002 |
I look at it this way. I paid $28,500 for my car. 1980 308 GTSI with 16,000 miles new paint. I had to do my own 30K. Last year Cavalino had it priced at $33,000. It just won a platiunm award at the french Qarter concorso. Do you really thinkg I could get $33,000 for my slow 2 vave. I don't know. but one day it will be worth that and allot more. I have the Originial window sticker. $53,265.00 in 1980 My 2 cents kelly | ||
| JP Lavigne (Jpl)
Junior Member Username: Jpl Post Number: 54 Registered: 12-2001 |
I beleive the Ferrari Market Letter is a good general view of the market, so lets take a look. 308GTB's for sale Qty 4 All of the 308 family....Qty 21 355's for sale.....Qty 80+ 360's for sale....Qty 65+ There are deffinately more newer cars for sale than older cars, and let's keep in mind that a 78 308GTB sold new in the US for around 25K, it is now worth about 25-35K, not a bad depreciation. The 355's sold for 125-150K and now sell for 75-120K, again not bad but not as good as a good 308 GTB with all records etc. Over time there will be fewer really good 308's than there are 355's or 360's and we all know that when there are more buyers than sellers, the price will go up. How much...depends on how many people want them in the future. Just my 2cents For now.... I will keep mine and enjoy it. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 596 Registered: 3-2001 |
I think the very nice cars will command higher dollars. How many near mint 308 examples do you see? They are not common at all, especially all original 308s, including paint, interior etc. Most of the cars I have seen forsale recently haven't been very nice and are being priced fairly high for what you get. I do think the best of the best 308s will be worth more and more. Like Tom said they are the most recognizable Ferraris to most people. They also IMHO are overall great cars. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 882 Registered: 5-2002 |
When the cars were runnign up in the 80's the carbed cars were king. More than all other 308's. I hope they are going up I'll sell my 78GTB and move up. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 379 Registered: 10-2001 |
I would guess that the pressure of better cars over time is the main problem. 10 years from now $35k might buy you a 0-60 3.9 sec, sleek looking, full retractable hard-top roof, that goes 100k miles without a tune up clutch or water pump replacement, electronicly adjustable suspension, great air conditioning. Its already happening.. kids getting out of high-school now, looking at a used 2003 Nissan 350Z in a year of two... are going to be hard to please. 308 will be harder and harder to justify. But it will balance with fewer and fewer nice cars. Price should be stable. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2002 |
Reminds me of what happens in a S-L-O-W real estate market(replace 'house' with 'Ferrari'): * much emotional attachment to one's home. * seller's have a bad case of 'gotta git more out of it that i put in it', but tend to ignore reality of where the market is at...a variation is "market trends don't apply to MY house". * takes AT LEAST two years of a flat/dead/down market to get people on the bubble(read, 'broke') to loosen up strings on purse and go for lower/realistic price. ALL real estate has a price at which it will sell; therefore, if sumpin' ain't selling, it's cuz the price is too damn high. Amazingly simple, but sometimes harder than hell to figure out, WHEN IT APPLIES TO MY HOUSE... oh, btw, in regards to 308's being $45-50k cars in 10 years, so what? In 10 years, that'll be about 25-30k in today's $$(we ain't gonna be in a zero interest rate/low inflation environment forever), plus, even tho they ain't makin' 308s anymore, there are going to be fewer and fewer people who can/are interested in working on a carb car with points(TWO sets), parts made of unobtanium, performance that'll be beat by any high school punk in a 5 yr old Mustang, etc., etc., etc. Hard lesson to learn(i'm still working on it), but "the past doesn't equal the future" | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 587 Registered: 5-2002 |
David, I think the entire collector car world needs a big heaping dose of "GET REAL"!!! Pick up any of those collector car auto trader magazines and they think every musclecar ever made is worth $30,000 and up. Of course every Ferrari is rare, and worth $50,000 and up. These guys must think the elevator always goes up and never comes down. Apparently all those guys live in Fantasia where unemployment, stagnant economy, and tough times don't exist and money flows like water from an unending fountain! Exactly who are the people paying gigantic prices for the glut of collector cars on the market? Or are these sellers eating bologna sandwiches in the back of their showroom? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 346 Registered: 5-2002 |
Add at least 10% if you buy at a dealer. They need to eat too. | ||
| David S (Djs308)
Junior Member Username: Djs308 Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2002 |
I may be no expert on the 308 market but my unscientific observations in NY show that there are VERY FEW 308 QV's that show up for sale in "mint" condition. Those that do, usually are listed between $35k and $42k. I have watched a small handful listed on dealer websites that have gone unsold for MONTHS probably due to the exorbitant asking prices. Most are NOT concours quality so the prices usually cannot be justified, IMO. I can definitely play the waiting game so, whenever these folks decide to get real and drop their prices, I may just have to go out and get me one!! | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 617 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mark, I'm definitely not treating mine like a garage queen, mine gets driven frequently. However, it is nice to follow the prices and see them trending up a little. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ok...maybe they didn't produce as many as I thought. According the Forza 355 Buyers Guide, 11273 355's were built. That is still a sizeable number and it's probably a larger quantity than the number of 308s around these days, including the real ratty ones. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 344 Registered: 5-2002 |
I bought mine in 2000, that year was good for stock and the prices of toys seemed to be high. They droped with the stocks, but seem to be back to about where they were. As far as 40/50 in 8/10 years, low 40s for QVs, probably not 50s . There is very low inflation rate, so almost nothing is going up very fast. I've seem some graph of various collectable car prices, they tend to bottom at about 15-20 years then follow inflation up. There was a spike in the 80s as investors thought cars were the way to go. When the bottom dropped out and the prices fell, you could draw a straight line though the 10 year before and the years after, as if it never happend. The slope was the inflation rate. Collecting anything isn't a very good investment, if you do good you won't loose anything, but you probably won't make anything either once you inflation correct the dollars. I say take your car and go out and enjoy it! | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 377 Registered: 10-2001 |
How many 355's did they make? 1995-1999 I always thought the 308 was by far the highest production ferrari? 1977-1985 | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 154 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think so Greg. These cars are the cars that everybody thinks of when the name "Ferrari" is mentioned(thanks to Magnum P.I.) They will start to go up as supply goes down. More and more are becoming basket cases and that will make the nice ones worth that much more because they will be much harder to locate. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 613 Registered: 10-2001 |
I know this will probably draw a lot of comments, but with the quantity of well taken care of 308's becoming harder to find, is it unrealistic to see the 308's beginning to edge back into the 40's/50's in the 8-10 year timeframe? | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 152 Registered: 9-2002 |
To be perfectly honest,I don't think there are that many 308's left out there that don't require a lot of work to make presentable. Most of the fellows that have owned 355's seemed to have taken better care of the cars and because of the fact that they are newer and much more expensive. Does anybody have any idea how many 308's are still registered,and driving around? I think it would be very interesting to find out how many are really left. You never know they might even be more rare than a 355! Maybe this could be why they seem to be slowly climbing in price, because there's less and less of the ones that are worth keeping or restoring. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Junior Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 151 Registered: 12-2002 |
You guys, I was looking at that 328 that Arlie posted a link to. How much would it cost to fix up that car to make it turn key ready and available to drive almost daily? 5 or 6k or so? Even still, thats on the low end of 308 value. Now THAT might have been a good deal I missed out on. Would you guys suggest against buying a car like the one Arlie posted? How much would it affect the owner down hte line in terms of reliability, maintainence and resale? | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 611 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mark, I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe there are as many if not more 355's built than 308's. And...considering the number of years the 308 has been around, there has been a longer period of time for them to diminish...be wrecked, rusted out, etc. 308's that are in great shape are becoming harder and harder to find, especially those that are bone stock. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 586 Registered: 5-2002 |
I did some E-Bay browsing and linking. Here's a site and a "cheap" 328 that supposedly sold for $17,000 with flood damage. http://www.autosourcenow.com/pics/photo_page.html Sure looks good from the photos. If it went for $17,000, that's the best looking project Ferrari that I've seen in a long time. But why would some company sell such a nice car for $17,000 when they probably could have gotten much more for the car on E-Bay? Even with flood damage, that car looks like it would have brought over $20,000 on E-Bay. Do you think that $17,000 sale was real? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 376 Registered: 10-2001 |
I just went to DuPont and found something interesting. They have 134 355's for sale but only 14 308's. I would have expected to see the opposite since so many 308 were made. Seems you get waves of used cars. The 355 are the right age for a lot to be trading in the market right now. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1017 Registered: 12-2001 |
Nobody seems to mention location of car having an effect on price. Where I live in Canada, 308's arent at every corner and we tend to get more than someone in say, florida. This applies to TR's and BB's as well from what Ive seen. Even the dollar difference doesnt bring the purchase prices up to ours in the cases Ive seen. It would allow me to ask a little more for mine and hold out for the buyer. Its alot easier than the buyer having to go south and may pay more for the convinence. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 343 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chris, you missed the 2v i's, maybe 20-26 - the lower performance seems to keep the price down. The injection is nice for turn the key and go if you can live with going a little slower. | ||
| Chris Scott (Jcscott)
New member Username: Jcscott Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2002 |
Horsefly, this is quite common in a buyer's market. In a seller's market, the price goes up and bam, it's gone. In a buyer's market, the seller quite often has difficulty in coming to terms with his depreciating car( the current Testa Rossa market is a great example) and you have to be a patient buyer. Ebay is not a good way to buy a car but can be a decent way to locate a car. As far as links to recent sales, here are few. Mecum aution november 1-2: 79gts with 37K miles sold for 18,600.00 and another 79 gts with 19K no sold at 26K. At Mccormick Nov. 23-24 a 77gtb with 29K sold for 27,000. An 81 gtbi with 15K sold for 26,400 at RM in August. I would not say you should buy at auction but a private car with records. This does give you an indication of the market at large. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
New member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2002 |
Great post, Chris. I believe that the price ranges you suggest for 308s are pretty much right on for final sale price, maybe $1k to $2k short for the very, very good examples above the (25%-75% range). Asking prices are less statistically significant, of course, than final sale prices. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 585 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chris said: "With the glut of cheap 308's on the market", etc. Can somebody, anybody, please post a link or show me where all these "cheap" 308s are for sale that everybody often refers to? Call me crazy, but I check E-Bay and Traderonline quite often, and the asking prices make me believe the sellers are smoking crack! If their asking prices were so realistic, how come they continue to advertise the same cars for month after month with no buyers? If the prices were realistic, the car would be sold after the first posting. | ||
| Chris Scott (Jcscott)
New member Username: Jcscott Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2002 |
The low price of new cars and the horrible used car market do not effect classic cars much. I think carb cars are still in the 22K-28K range from a buyers point of view(rare fiberglass still going much higher if you can find one but I do not see the value). Qv's are a little higher, say 28-34. 328's at say 35-45 and the 89 still can hold 50K+ for a premium car. I am excluding "condition 1" cars. The thing about Dupont and other similar publications is the asking price is always so high. The really hot cars now are 65-72/73, especially american muscle cars. The market has moved away from the 1960-65 group dominated by british cars into this class and the market always seems to move with age groups. The 308's are about 5 years away from a real appreciation trend for the earliest cars. It gets a little complicated though when you have a car with such a long production history. The 911's face the same issue and interestingly it is the 66-73 S cars that are now rising fast in price. 1975-1985 is now the lowest valued age of cars in the market. Think of any car in this bracket(except 288GTO) holding a high price. Given the current value of early 308's relative to the rest of the car market, they are one of the real bargains today. With the glut of cheap 308's on the market, their are some real worn out cars but those with records and attention should have a good future. I am going to enjoy my 77 in the meantime and see where it goes! | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Junior Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2002 |
I came VERY close to buying a 308 GTS in late 99. There were ALL over the place, and I could have had a cherry 82 GTSi with 20k miles for $22k. There were quite a few GTSi's for under $25k. Now when I get the itch and look around, I never see them for under 25k, and a lot of them are edging around the 30k mark. Go figure. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 584 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sorry, but I don't think that even an almighty Ferrari will defy the laws of supply and demand, the highs and lows of economic upheavals, etc. The collector car market rode the wave during the 1980s, and then crashed when the bottom fell out. Ferrari included. Wasn't there a guy on this board that said he was offered $400,000 for his Daytona and passed? Now what is it worth, $150,000 or $200,000 at the most? Sounds like the name Ferrari is not impervious to economic slumps. It's just a car. Rarer than most, but in the end, just a product subject to the rigors of the real world. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2002 |
Shush ... if you are trying to drum up the prices then shut up, give others like me a chance  | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1016 Registered: 12-2001 |
I was serious Matt. I seem to be hearing more people looking for a GTB over an S. Well Arlie, when I wanted to buy my 308, a corvette with 0% interest didnt mean squat. A vette isnt a ferrari. Yes I know a corvette is better than any ferrari built but thats not what I wanted. If the day ever comes that you actually seriously consider buying a ferrari, something else wont do. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 583 Registered: 5-2002 |
You're dreaming. A friend of a friend works at a local sports car/semi exotic car dealership. They sell the later model, higher dollar stuff, (Corvette, Cadillac, etc. but no Ferrari). Word is that they are selling their late model, low mileage used cars at barely above their acquisition cost. The reason? All the big auto makers are offering ZERO percent financing on NEW cars. Therefore, a potential car buyer can buy a NEW car for less money per month that a low mileage, LIKE new car. AND get a full warranty with it! Their used car business is very slow. I can't see any 308 prices soaring in this slow economy; especially when you can buy a new Corvette for essentially the same money. Of course, as I have said in other postings, who says the economy is bad? Zero interest car loans and 6 percent interest on home loans sounds pretty good to me! It's like the old saying: A recession is when the OTHER guy loses his job. A depression is when YOU lose YOUR job!!! It all just depends upon which side of the fence you are on. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1382 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have noticed that as well. Paul, no joke, the carbs are going for more. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1014 Registered: 12-2001 |
They are climbing, especially the carbed GTB's hehehe. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 151 Registered: 9-2002 |
Looking through the DuPont registry and I've noticed that 308's are are being listed in the high 20k to 35k area. Is this a good sign for us 308 owners? I've heard talk that 70's area cars are big time in fashion in the southern U.S. such as 70's Corvettes. Maybe this is why the prices are climbing or am I dreaming again? |