| Author | Message | ||
| Drew Kelley (Drew)
New member Username: Drew Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2003 |
With 135,000kilometres on the current clutch in my '67 330 GTC, maybe I should keep it and forego the 355/360 F1? | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 175 Registered: 3-2001 |
Lou, I had no sign of slippage, and my F1 transmission was ultra smooth, then last month the car dropped into neutral (only on two occasions) whilst I was driving at regular road speed.... | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2001 |
10000 360 Spider F1 miles including 4 track events in 12 months and while I don't know about clutch wear there is no sign of slippage and it seems to be working fine even at low stop and go speeds and red lights. No other car problems major or minor except new pads and P Zeros. So far I am perfectly satisfied. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1109 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jason, that is truly amazing to hear. Like you, I find it incredible to believe! I believe you (it's not like I'm doubting you). My clutch? Well, its a combination of the last dealer checkup and driving "feel." I know its not very scientific... Let me knock on wood - since I just crossed the 8k miles barrier.... Ernesto | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 376 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ernesto, your right, I misread. Sorry.  | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 174 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ernesto, Don't know what to say to you.....That statement wasn't from a dealer, it was straight from the horses' mouth (no pun intended), I've spoken with 3 people at Ferrari North America this week.....I, like you was appauled and somewhat disbelieving that 5k-8k was considered a 'normal life' for the clutch. I'm aware that some owners are well other 10,000 miles, again don't know what to say other than according to FNA anything over 8k is a bonus!!!! I'd be happy to give you their names (offline) if you'd like to hear them tell it to you. How are you determining that you have no clutch wear??? Is it via the % clutch wear printout from the computer? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1108 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mitchel... Ummm... Jason and JD were talking about 360's... Fairly clear in their posts. Ernesto | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 372 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ernesto, two different cars. We are talking about the F355. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1107 Registered: 2-2001 |
The clutch in my 360M F1 is as strong as ever at 8,000 miles. There are many F1's around here at over 10,000 with original clutch and showing no signs of wear. I just cant believe that "normal" life on the clutch is 5-8k miles. Ernesto | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 173 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jeff, Interesting questions......Regarding the clutch life, that's a difficult question to answer because the responses given by Ferrari to me have too be seen in the light of a company that didn't want to contribute towards the cost of my repair, which meant that I received well rehearsed official lines that whilst plausible were very company centric.....reading between the lines, I suspect the 5k-8k relates to pre 2002 cars.... The way the clutch is held has been upgraded from a three bolt to a six bolt configuration and apparently this combined with the pressure plate interaction give a better clutch life.....I have had these mods made (no choice as they don't make the clutch with a three hole configuration anymore)I had uneven clutch wear, which throws the clutch positioning sensor off, and drops the car into neutral (which is always fun, when you're driving the car fast!!!) I'm never going to get an honest answer, but I suspect the reason for my poor clutch life was a result of having the PIS cranked up so high. I must say that it made the car drive very smoothly, but I don't think it was good for the clutch.....I did this because of the constant clutch overheat alarm, not because of jerky gear changes, or power spurts at parking speeds..... Would I buy another F1 transmission.....I'm sure that Ferrari will get it right, but they need early adopters to buy the cars and provide real world feedback....You can see this by how improved the ECU in the 2002 360's are......What I object to is getting shafted for being an early purchaser of the car. It is absolutely crystal clear that the initial ECU's had issues with the PIS settings, clutch overheat strategies etc. I think they should have contributed to my repair, and If I get my car back and have issues with the overheat alarm again, we are most definately going to brawl because, it was a fault that I reported at least 4 times during the warranty period. | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 116 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jason Is the estimate of 5 to 8k clutch life for pre 2002 models or for all model years? Is it possible to put an updated ECU into your car? It might be cheaper than buying a new clutch every 5k. When I come to a stop, I usually shift into neutral from 3rd gear and coast to a stop. I rarely shift or let the computer shift down into 2nd or 1st. The F1 is so much fun that I am probably shifting up/down too much. I probably wouldn't shift this much in a standard 6spd. Lastly, given your experience with the F1, would you buy another Ferrari with the F1 system? | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 172 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jeff, Your info about PIS settings are pretty much spot only.....I have spent the best part of this week learning more than I ever wanted to know about the 360 F1 transmission. Basically Ferrari were trying to explain to me why I shouldn't be too upset that my clutch needs replacing after 5500 miles (at a cost of $4500!!!!) apparently the clutch on the 360 F1 typically lasts between 5000 to 8000 miles (anything above 8000 is a bonus!!). Anyone else think that mileage is PATHETIC? (and I always put the car in neutral at traffic lights, on hills etc... guess that was just pissing in the wind) The updated ECU has different shifting strategies, and allows the PIS to be set even if the car is warm. The older ECU has to be set cold (I know my dealer put the building A/C on tonight to try and get the car as cold as possible). Given how tricky this thing is to set up, it's not really surprising that no two 360's drive the same. I'm not sure if 4.8 is the ideal setting, but the mechanic told me he was psyched if he cold set an original ECU at 5.2....Mine was set at 5.8, which is incredibly high, but was the only way to get rid of the clutch overheat alarm that plagued the earlier 360's.... I am told that has also been addressed with the new ECU.....The alarm is tripped not by a temperature sensor, but by a mathematical formula which predicts clutch overheat. The new ECU has a different formula which gives you a bit more time before the alarm goes mental at you Finally, for anyone still reading this post....percentage clutch wear figures from the ECU are not accurate and are meant to be used as an 'indicator'....anything above 70%, get your checkbook out, cos you're going to be buying a new clutch very soon. Bottom line...The new ECU is much better than the old one, the clutch life is pathetic, and I am one truly pissed off Ferrari owner..... | ||
| David Burch (Merlyn)
New member Username: Merlyn Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2002 |
Regarding lifting when shifting, I found that it is smoothest to just lift slightly on up shifts, down shifts are no problem as you foot is probably off the gas and on the brakes anyway. The problem with the F1 on track use is that it is very difficult to really brake hard, especially if going downhill, or turning into the apex, as the transmission just shifts when the revs allow it to and this, sometimes, will cause rear wheel lockup. If you have a manual shifter, you can modulate the brakes at that moment. The other problem is that it doesn�t appear to be buffered so that if you pull the paddle three times it will only shift once if the revs are too high. I expect the racing software has a more advanced logic. The reason it shines on back road driving is because you are not driving at the limit, at least I�m not. All in all, I think it is wonderful, but I will probably get a manual with the coming replacement for the 575 I have on order. I�m in �wait and see� mode right now. | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 114 Registered: 2-2001 |
John One reason no two cars are alike is due to the PIS (Point of Initial Slippage)settings. From 1999-2001 the PIS settings can/have a tendency to get out of adjustment. Starting with the 2002 model, Ferrari changed the computer modual so it would keep the PIS setting in the proper range. I believe the correct setting is 4.8 Anything different than 4.8 can cause the F1 to be jerky or clutch slippage. Gian I NEVER take my foot off the gas pedal when I shift, up or down. | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 209 Registered: 11-2001 |
Omar, The 360 F1 is not installable in a 355. The 360 is a more complex drive-by-wire system. | ||
| john (Johnwto)
New member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2002 |
could people's experiences be so different? it almost seems like no two f1 transmission are the same. | ||
| David Burch (Merlyn)
New member Username: Merlyn Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have a 99 F1, and I find that it�s not at all harsh or jerky except for the first shift into 2nd on a cold day. After I put about 14,000 miles on it I realized that you do not have to select neutral before going into reverse. You must be at a complete stop though. Contrary to others I found it to be less than perfect on the track, but for backroad driving it is as good as it gets. I have driven the 360 f1, and was not impressed, way to jerky. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 188 Registered: 9-2002 |
can you upgade the sotware on a 97-99 355 with newer material to make the system better? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 336 Registered: 10-2002 |
No leave your foot where it is. | ||
| gian maria traversone (Giamma)
New member Username: Giamma Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2002 |
I tried a 360 f1, for a test drive and in the 15 minutes thatthe test drive took I could not make a single smooth shift. The seller was telling me that I had to take the food slitly off the gas during the shift, and by doing that the shift be very slow and unsmooth. So I am not still clear what is the real way to shift. Do you take the foot off the gas or NOT, during the shift??? | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Junior Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 113 Registered: 6-2002 |
Fletch, I had a 98F1 and really liked it. Gian, sport mode will let you bounce off the rev limiter when accelerating. It will not automatically upshift. However, if you are slowing down, sport mode will automatically select a lower gear to keep the car from stalling. | ||
| gian maria traversone (Giamma)
New member Username: Giamma Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2002 |
What about thr Sport mode, does it changes the feeling of the shiftings? Does the gearbox shifts by itself if you go to red line without shifting? If so, what happens if you go 30 miles per houer in 6 gear, does it automaticly shifts down, or it stals as a conventional mechanic gearbox? | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 113 Registered: 2-2001 |
Fletch I drove a 99 355 F1 on numerous occasions and found the F1 to be like John said, "jerky and shift with a thud or thump". It was not pleasing. So I ordered my 2001 360 with the standard 6spd. When I ordered my 2002 Spider I went back to the F1. The F1 is much improved over the 99 I drove. There is no jerkiness or thump when I shift. I drive the car in heavy traffic and have no problems. The car is "silky" smooth. My next car will have the F1 again. I can't comment on reliability on the 355 F1 but my dealer told me if it ever needed work, it's going to be REAL EXPENSIVE. On the other hand everything is expensive on a Ferrari | ||
| Parker (Fletch)
New member Username: Fletch Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2002 |
I did find some discussion on the subject, but not a lot of input from owners and/or people with personal experience. Thanks for your input. | ||
| john (Johnwto)
New member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2002 |
i'm surprised you haven't found an answer in the archives. this has been discussed about 6 billion times. i had a 98 355F1. it is such a wonderful transmission but i really didn't like it. around the city or in stop and go traffic the car IS jerky. it's not a car you want to be starting and stopping from. sometimes the clutch would engage with a thump or thud. at 1500 miles the clutch and clutch plate assembly needed to be replaced. of course ferrari would not do this under warranty and it cost be $5,000. once you are moving or on the track i found the f1 to be flawless except on the rare occassion when the shift would go to neutral instead of a gear. this usually happened on my 1-2 upshift under full acceleration. putting the car into reverse is a slow process so once again driving the car in a congested city is pain. ie/ 3-point turn, parallel parking etc. when i bought my 360 it was traditional 6 speed all the way and i LOVE it. i might consider an f1 again but i truly love using the clutch and shifting in a traditional manner. i think the 360 has the best manual transmission i have ever driven. the end result is, get what you want. don't worry too much about whether getting an f1 is going to cause you problems. like any car you're likely to get some sort of problem arise anyway. | ||
| Parker (Fletch)
New member Username: Fletch Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2002 |
Before we start, I did do a search for this topic and didn't find the answers I was looking for. If this has been duplicated somewhere and I didn't see it, I apologize in advance. I have had the pleasure of driving a 99 355 and a 00 360, both with the F1 system. I found that they were both a pleasure to drive, not jerky and easy to use. The 360 is currently out of my realistic price range and I personally prefer the looks of a 355 Berlinetta. My question to all of you 355 F1 owners is how do you feel the F1 system fairs in terms of driveability (sp?) and reliability? Do you find the F1 system to be jerky when you start or shift gears? Was I just lucky in my experience with the 355 F1 that I drove? Have you had to replace the clutch more often than say other 355's of a similar year with the traditional transmission? The 98 and 99 355's are the first production cars to get the F1 system and I just want to know what people with personal experience think of them. I would prefer to buy the latest and greatest system (2003 360), but that is just not realistic. I really like the F1 system, so the 355 became my only real option. Thanks for the help. |