| Author |
Message |
Ansgar Schürmeyer (Taunus)
Junior Member
Username: Taunus
Post Number: 96
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 3:24 am: | |
Bad news. Giovanni Agnelli died yesterday. Perhaps to much bad news about FIAT. |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 396
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 2:06 am: | |
Mitch,
If you want to see antiquted labor laws, look no further than Germany. German labor costs are among the highest in Europe and workers have the shortest work-week at 35 hours per week, with almost 2 months per year off for vacations and holidays. Social benefits are 50% higher in Germany than in the U.S.
In Norway someone can have doctor "claim" the patient has chronic headaches and this person can then enjoy unemplyment benefits for nearly 5 years at 85% of his previous salary. This type of stuff is nuts.
Allowing labor unions to sit on the board of directors is also nuts. Another practice of having one labor union negotiate wages for the entire industry is also hurting Germany. Imagine if the GM negotiated a 9% wage increase and then automatically Chrysler, Ford, Honda (US), Toyota and the rest also get 9% increase.
Because it's so damn hard to fire anyone in Europe, most companies overinvest in automation equipment rather than hire people because they enjoy no fexibility to cut staff in a downturn. I can guarantee you that the US will come out of this slow down faster and stronger then Europe will.
Just my 2 cents worth from living in Germany for 10 years.
Regards,
Jon
|
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 823
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 1:24 am: | |
As Rodney mentioned, the corporate structure of Fiat is such that the GM interest is apart from Ferrari.
Fiat is a holding company. Many different companies are owned, two of which are Fiat Automotive, and Ferrari. GM's contractual interest is with Fiat Automotive.
It's like you own 5 cars. Your neighbor talks you into some sort of weird optional purchase agreement for one of them. That car pukes it's engine, and now you may go to the poor house trying to fix it. You try to lean on your neighbor. What matters in this situation is that there currently is no obligations regarding your other 4 cars. That's the GM-Fiat connection. The GM contract is with one of Fiat's children. Not with the one named Ferrari.
Not that all of this couldn't change, but that would entail a total renegotiation of the various agreements. |
PSk (Psk)
New member
Username: Psk
Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 5:54 pm: | |
Interesting ...
quote:as customers chose cars like Ford Motor Co.'s Focus over Fiat's year-old Stilo compact.
The Ford Focus has received sh!t reviews in Australia and you hardly ever see one on the road, so what is going on here?. I have read a review on the Stilo and it sounded like a good car, is the Italian reliability (er, lack of) finally causing the makers some deserved grief?.
Alfa Romeo 147s/156s are selling really well over here so it appears that Alfa are doing all right ... just don't get it.
I can see that there are too many marques fighting for the same buyer, ie. Fiat, Lancia (do they still make these?), Alfa Romeo all make very similar cars ... thus making 3 flavours of the same recipe maybe expensive and confusing buyers?
Pete |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 305
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 4:45 pm: | |
Are you refering to the antiquated laws where a person with nothing more than motivation (and hunger) can become an apprentice, learn a valuable skill, and become a productive member of society?
Or are you refering to the antiquated law where before a company goes bankrupt, they have to put monies asside to care for their (soon to be) previous employes? |
Rodney Haas (Icars)
Junior Member
Username: Icars
Post Number: 127
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 10:27 am: | |
Again GM/FIAT Motor Group has not interest in Ferrari currently. FIAT SPA owns the interest. FERRARI/MASERATI was never part of the deal with GM.
The one thing that might change this is Ferrari purchasing ALFA. If this happens I assume GM would get some part of FERRARI. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 320
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 8:46 am: | |
"When the hell will the Europeans's change their antiquated labor laws?"
never, sad but true
Look at e.g. Germany's economy. Down like the rest of us, but struggling more so with all their social nets. Taxes of 60%+ for companies etc, but they go ahead and rule for a socialist chancellor. They boldly march in the wrong direction. And that's the 'leading' nation of Europe, at least from an economic perspective.
|
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 391
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 20, 2003 - 3:59 pm: | |
Read below the story below my post. What a bunch of idiots. Instead of focusing on making better products at cheaper costs and reorganizing the company FIAT's management is only interested in making sure their butt's are employed and resisting a hostile takeover.
What the hell will a spin off do except eliminate any takeover's. The takeover candidates want the insurance business and the aero business and would likely chop FIAT's auto division in half and fire half the auto workers as well as dropping out of many markets.
This sucks. And for those of you who keep worrying about a GM engined Ferrari. Forget it, GM doesn't want FIAT's auto business anymore than anyone else does. In fact GM will likely invoke a clause in their contract that states and "material reoganziation" of the company voids the 80% buyout clause.
I own investments in GM stock for my shareholders and have spoken to management and the last thing they want is FIAT burdening their already poor balance sheet which has a huge unfunded pension liability for the next few years.
There are rumors floating around GM's legal department that in the end it would be cheaper to fight the buy out clause in court and hold things up while FIAT goes under or has to do a major restructering (some at GM say this is already happening and that court action will not be needed).
When the hell will the Europeans's change their antiquated labor laws?
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
1995 F355 Challenge #23
Fiat Says It's Considering Spinning Off Car Unit (Update4)
By Anthony DiPaola
Turin, Italy, Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Fiat SpA said it may spin off its car unit and raise capital to develop new models as part of a plan to return Italy's biggest manufacturer to profit.
The auto unit had an operating loss of less than 200 million euros ($213 million) in the fourth quarter, Fiat said, missing a break-even target it made in December. The company has cut 8,100 jobs and slashed production to turn around its car business.
Fiat had its first full-year loss in a decade in 2001 and is set to report a loss of as much as 1 billion euros for last year, analysts have said. Separating the auto division may help the Agnelli family protect profitable units and keep control of the company they founded more than a century ago.
``They're just prolonging the agony,'' said Massimo Nibbi, who helps manage 250 million euros at Meliorbanca SpA and doesn't own Fiat shares. ``They need to get back into the car market. They need to become competitive again.''
Fiat shares fell 50 cents, or 5.5 percent, to 8.55 euros. The stock has risen 10 percent this year, though lost 48 percent in the last 12 months, bringing the company's market value to 4.6 billion euros.
``We are studying various initiatives to recapitalize our core businesses, starting with Fiat Auto,'' Chairman and Co-Chief Executive Paolo Fresco said. ``There are plans for a potential spinoff to provide our businesses with added resources.''
Fresco made the remarks during a meeting with Fiat's top managers in Turin yesterday and today, and Fiat incorporated them in the statement to the Italian Exchange.
Spinoff
Spinning off the car unit would shied Fiat's profitable businesses, such as insurer Toro Assicurazioni SpA and airplane- engine maker Fiat Avio, from the auto division's losses and may thwart a bid by financier Roberto Colaninno to take management control of the company.
Colaninno, who engineered the 30 billion-euro takeover of Telecom Italia SpA in 1999, has offered Fiat fresh financing in return for a management role. He's said he favors strengthening an alliance with General Motors Corp. to jointly buy parts and build engines. He plans to invest 2.5 billion euros in the company and raise 5 billion euros through asset sales.
Fiat's board will make a decision on Colaninno's proposal after examining it, Fresco said. The board is not scheduled to meet until the end of February and may call an earlier meeting.
GM Reaction
General Motors spokeswoman Toni Simonetti declined to comment on the Fiat announcement. The world's biggest carmaker owns 20 percent of Fiat's auto unit and can be forced to buy the remaining 80 percent starting next year.
``We have plans to continue with the activities we have with Fiat for the long term,'' Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner told reporters at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit earlier this month.
Fiat Auto had an operating loss of 1.3 billion euros last year, higher than its forecast of 1.16 billion euros. Sales of Alfa Romeo, Fiat and Lancia cars dropped every month but one in Italy as customers chose cars like Ford Motor Co.'s Focus over Fiat's year-old Stilo compact.
Job cuts and asset sales allowed Fiat to reduce its debt three months ahead of a schedule it had agreed with creditors. Fiat told the banks it would cut net debt to below 3 billion euros by the end of March. Fiat had earlier said its debt was near the 3 billion-euro target.
|
|