| Author | Message | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
New member Username: Labcars Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2003 |
On a day in day out basis, the 360 is hard to beat. Makes it fun to go grocery shopping!! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 684 Registered: 12-2001 |
And, which of the 3 ferraris, Les, do you enjoy driving the most, not with respect to any particular "mission," as you put it (distance, canyon carving), but for the sheer pleasure of you and the machine, and all that is associated with the experience of driving? | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
New member Username: Labcars Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2003 |
Fayyaz, sorry I don't have pic's to post yet. I'll try to get that together soon, though (I'm not the most technologically proficient guy you'll ever meet). | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
New member Username: Labcars Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2003 |
Great question! There is NOTHING like the '94 Turbo S flatnose for grins. The kick in the back is awesome form the last of the big single turbos. It is the only one that I will NEVER sell. | ||
| Fayyaz Vellani (Fvellani)
New member Username: Fvellani Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2002 |
Labcars, do you have any pictures of your cars...Id love to see a 550 in yellow  | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 497 Registered: 10-2001 |
Labcars , you have an amazing collection ! May i ask you which one from your 3 Turbo 911 do you prefer ? I love the 964 Turbo , i think they are one of the most sensual 911 ever..How do they compare to the 993/996 gen ? Not in performance but in sensation ? Regards . | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
New member Username: Labcars Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm really interested in all these comments. I own an '01 550 (fly yellow, gray/carbon fibre interior, sport seats), a '03 360 spider 6 speed (had an F1 spider and hated it), and a '65 275gts. I agree that the 550 is the best GT car made today and love the sound of the 12 in front and the ability to make the car dance in any gear. The 360 is infinitely more tossable, has a totally different growl and makes you think nasty thoughts. The 275 makes you think of a different time, but still amazes me in what you can do with 260hp and 14" wheels! As for pricing, the 550 has definitely lost some market value, while 360 spider prices tend to be still +/- $60k over list. I don't think you can compare prices, as these are incredibly different animals. Which one you get into depends entirely on the intended mission. Long distance - hands down the 550. Canyon carving - no doubt the 360. Neither can do what the other does. I think one should buy the best example of the one which best satifies one's needs, regardless of their relative pricing. No matter what anyone says, these should all be viewed as depreciating assets, albeit some slower than others. Just MHO. | ||
| Frank Richard Noodleman (R_noodle)
New member Username: R_noodle Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2002 |
Dear Ghostrider, Give me your email on this thread or send it to me at [email protected] and I will send you the info and pictures. | ||
| Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
New member Username: Threefivefive Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2002 |
Frank, Although I am seriously considering a 355 (see other posts) I have not completely ruled out a 550. It would have to be an awesome car, though, because I'm getting a good deal on the 355. Your car seems nice (and I'm partial to the color), so I just wanted to see some pics if you have them. Can you send them to me when you get a chance. Any history/details/problems/service history would also be appreciated. Regards. | ||
| Frank Richard Noodleman (R_noodle)
New member Username: R_noodle Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have a one owner 1999 Euro 550 Maranello with 13,750 miles for sale. It is California Azzurro Blue with Crema interior. It has cd, Tubi, 3M Chip Protector on the front clip and the fender wells have been sprayed with protectant. All recalls have been done. I am in the San Jose, California area. Any interest? The car is near perfect cosmetically and mechanically flawless. My own bias after driving the 550 and 360 is that the 550 feels more solid and stable. I don't like the paddle shifter on the 360, either. It's a hell of a lot of car for the money! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3693 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave, don't forget the 550 is an old design and engineering whereas the 360 Spider is 2000 and newer. You are talking 5 years of engineering difference. Actually the difference between a world championship won and not! I am very impressed with the 550. I guess it all depends on what you want to do. The 550 is heavier than the 360 thus even with more torque and HP not much faster. My taste just the built and int workmanship is superior to the 360. I would not go for the barchetta though but for the coupe. Better lines. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 457 Registered: 8-2001 |
"The 550 is a mean machine in the skin of a sheep." I think both the 550 and the 360 would fit that description, but I do not understand how the 550 would fit that description better. Everybody I have talked to has said that the 360 is the more tossable car by a wide margin. All the comments have been that the 360 is far better for twisties. The 12 should win for flat out acceltration (sp). Lets go to the Ferrari NA Web Site. Max torque for the 550 Barchetta is listed as 420 @ 5,000. Max torque for the 360 Spider is listed as 275 @ 4,750. So it would seem that the Barchetta would do far better. However, 0 to 60 for the Barchetta is listed as 4.72 seconds while 0 to 60 for the 360 Spider is listed as 4.6 seconds. It would seem in this case that the true lion in sheeps clothing is the the 360 Spider. The engineering to get these numbers must have been unbelievable. Plus I have been told that the top for the Barchetta is for emergency use only and has a speed limitation of something like 45 mph (do not remember the exact number). Top end of both is listed at over 180 mph. For the 550 Maranello, torque is still 420 and the torque for the 360 Modena remains at 275. However, 0 to 60 for the Maranello is listed at 4.3 seconds while the 360 Modena is listed as 4.5 seconds. Going from a 12 to an 8 with the same manufacturer I would have expected more than .2 seconds difference. This is where I would have expected the greatest difference. The Maranello has a top of 199 while the top of the Modena is over 180. I think that the Maranello is one of the great cars of our times. However, from these numbers it would seem that the lion in sheeps clothing is the 360. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 657 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>The 550 is a mean machine in the skin of a sheep. << Agreed, short of an F40, totally different game though, the 550 is the most immpressive Ferrari ever built imo. Maybe not the most Exotic Ferrari, but definately one of the most immpressive street machines they've ever produced. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3690 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW the Dino I do not fully agree with Frank. Dino Ferrari was credited (unjustly as most say) with the development of the V6 in the 50s. Hence Ferrari gave his V6 Road Car that was the base for a race car the name DINO. 206 and 246 Dino resulted here. Since the Bertone 308GT4 that car took also the name DINO mainly becuase Ferrari did not want their name associated with non V-12 Road Cars. He later buckeled and called the Dino 308GT$ the then Ferrari 308GT4. Please anybody correct me if I am wrong. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3689 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, look at my webnsite for more info: www.4Ferrari.com the car is red over tan Rick, why, I think Frank made a good point here. If you drive both cars the 550 wins hands down. Not just for the V12 value but for everything that the car has. It is just a superior car. Also the reason why the price is $ 50K higher than a 360. The 360 is a nice street cruiser. The 550 is a mean machine in the skin of a sheep. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 456 Registered: 8-2001 |
The comments on the F1 make sense, so I will change my opinion in that area. Have a great day, Dave | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 270 Registered: 9-2002 |
Dave, though your premise is IMO correct, so is the previous. The F1 trany allowed more people to buy the cars bescause know they did not have to know how to drive a manual....and didnt feel like learning. Thus, the sales increased as people who knew nothing of driving before know could 'drive like Schaumacher'..I also suspect this is why many reports have quick burning clutches..they prob really didnt know what they were doing to well on top of the software problems. my thoughts. | ||
| Ming Cheng (Onlinesys)
Junior Member Username: Onlinesys Post Number: 156 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dave -- Yes, most people admired and interested in the Ferrari but for some trandy people and for those who could afford a brand new F-car, a F1 gearbox would definitely act as a catalyst at least in the SEA and Europe markets. I could also see a big increase in orders for the latest 996 Turbo after the Tiptronic gearbox being installed. As per the BMW. I don't think it is in the same category or a direct competitor. Just my $0.02. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 455 Registered: 8-2001 |
I come from the poor side of the tracks, and only became interested in Ferraris about a year and a half ago. I first became interested in TRs so they are traditional Ferraris to me. Of course traditional Ferrari means something totally different to Frank. Someone, maybe Frank, once wrote that the front 12s were the conservative, traditional Ferraris while the 8s were where Ferrari tried new things. People have said that the 8s were fun, exciting, sexy while the 12s were traditional, conservative. Where has the market gone in the last 10 years and where is it likely to go in the future? Toward fun, exciting, sexy or toward conservative, traditional? This affects demand and hence value. I would think most people get interested in Ferraris, then the F1 transmission. Not the other way around. Has the F1 transmission on the BMW brought new buyers to BMW? Or were they interested in BMW and then became interested in the F1? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 682 Registered: 12-2001 |
There are, actually, any number of older convertible 12's, leaving aside "cut" cars that are priced around or below the oversticker price for a 360 spider in the US: 330 gts 250 cabrio series 2 275 gts One response may be that these cars don't have the modern levels of performance associated with the 360, but i'll bet on the thrills per mph scale, they would actually rank higher.(Yeah, parts availability would be a factor,though, compared to the new car). | ||
| Ming Cheng (Onlinesys)
Junior Member Username: Onlinesys Post Number: 155 Registered: 5-2002 |
Guys --- One important reason why the "dust" is still there for the 360 is the F1 gearbox that attracted a lot of newbies(new groups) who had never considered a Ferrari before. A simple "Supply and Demand" issue! Personally I reckon the price of 550 should be higher than 360 in the long term. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1333 Registered: 1-2001 |
I like the way you think Mark! -- a modern 275 GTB with a big streetable injected motor -- sign me up... (Can you call a 550 Barchetta a "ragtop" or is it leaning a bit towards the "roadster" side of things?) | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 753 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank gets his rocks off by being a ball-buster. | ||
| Al LaPeter (Lapeter)
New member Username: Lapeter Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2002 |
I may be in the minority, but it seems the "hot" 360's are the spiders. Is it possible that a lot of people just like a ragtop. My last two Porsche's and last Ferrari were ragtops. Before that was a 308 GTS. I would love a V12 ragtop, but I can't afford a 550 Barchatta. That just leaves me a 360. IMHO | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 681 Registered: 12-2001 |
There is another consideration, and that is, for alot of people who want a ferrari, the historical trappings of the 550(nouveau Daytona) are less important than having a small, lithe little chuckable sports car. I'll bet there are any number of people who, when faced with the choice between a new 360 coupe, and a slightly used but pristine 550, for the same dollars, might just choose the 360. Has little to do with whether one is intrinsically better than the other... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 695 Registered: 11-2001 |
there's no logical reason to assume that 360 prices won't start a healthy decline once the replacement model comes out. the same thing happened with the 355. i'll bet frank didn't quite mean his "uninformed" comment as nastily as some have implied. my theory on all this has to do with the new, entry price for the vehicle and how that striates the buying market. 550 prices have been pushed down harder in part because nobody is buying $190K used cars; nor $175K used cars. once you get down into the $150K and below range, you start to open up an entirely new group of buyers - not dissimilar from those buying new 360s. that set of folks is large enough to support over-MSRP 360s and the like right now and, IMO, keep the 550 prices buoyed for a bit (we'll see). but buyers of $225K and up new cars is a rarified strata, which means the production volumes are a lot less, which means that, long-term, the 550 prices are quite likely to remain higher than 360 prices, once the 360 dust settles, probably when the replacement model is released. my two pennies. i'm not an economist, i just play one on tv. doody. | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jeff I don't disagree with Frank that the 360 prices will eventually fall below the 550. This should be a "no brainer". The 360 MSRP is $70K less than a 550. On the other hand it may not happen. How does one explain the resale prices of the 246 (a real DINO). The 246 commands higher prices than some V12's. Of course it's only been 30 years and according to Frank's definitions, the car is still "new" and the "dust" hasn't settled yet I do disagree with Frank that the "bulk" of 360 buyers are uniformed. Not after 5 years of production. I believe Ferrari buyers are a smart bunch and are not buying 360's because it is the "in" thing to do. | ||
| Jeff (Jeff_m)
Junior Member Username: Jeff_m Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think Frank makes a valid point and considering the inflated market for the 360 still and the over sticker prices on the spider the dust has yet to settle.People still cannot go and buy that car without a wait and until the market fills all the orders, the prices will stay where they are.Eventually, everyone that wants one will have it and I would think the 360 and the 550 will flip on which one will comand more$$. | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 117 Registered: 2-2001 |
Frank, I'm not trying to start a disagreement. I really appreciate your positve views on the V12s. The last thing I would never do is try to out talk a lawyer. BUT, if this had been a college deabte your side would have lost. Your own words do not support your reasoning "...first came out..." "...After the dust settled.." "...Once the 360 newness wanes..." I don't know what your definition of these words are but the 360 has been in production for 5 years now. The 360 is no longer " first coming out or "new". The "dust" has settled a looooong time ago. And yet, the "uniformed" keep buying the car. Gee, Frank. Is it possible that people keep buying the 360 because it is the car they prefer and not that they are "uniformed?". | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2001 |
Have heard that the F40 was the final car built/intro'd on Enzo's watch. The bare bones, drive it to the track formula (250 SWB throwback) was the cornerstone of his brief. That the car was a mid-engined eight seems to fly a bit in the face of the whole "real Ferrari's are front engined V-12's" edict, which I've also heard attached to Enzo. Agree his death was likely unplanned. As far as 360/550 values. My guess (coin-toss?) would be that the 360 may eventually drop below the 550. If for no other reason than production numbers. Though like Dino/Daytona, prices may not be in separate zip codes. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1681 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tenney, I don't think that Enzo planned on dying after the F40 came out. And, the TR was already in production when he died so why wouldn't it be his "swan song" ? as far as the market is concerned, i don't believe it has caught up with the 550/575 yet. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 302 Registered: 2-2001 |
As opposed to the 308, would likely pair the 246 with the Daytona as a reference point value-wise, DF. Further, wouldn't be too surprised if, as time passes, more people consider less what Enzo would've thought proper than what best suits their needs Ferrari-wise. Personally, if I'm shopping for Enzo, what he'd like would carry more weight. He should be happy with his wheels. On the other hand, if the car's primarily to be driven by me, the criteria may change a bit. A 360 is a more focused car than the 550, and the best performing Dino since the F40 (lore/myth be true, kinda conflicting that Enzo would've chosen a mid-engine 8 as a "proper" swan song). The 550 is a fine GT and may be the best all-around car Ferrari has built to date. Different cars for different purposes. The market speaks. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1678 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rick, IMHO that is what happens when the uninformed make up the bulk of who's buying Ferraris. If you will recall, when the 308 first came out it was outselling the Daytona in numbers and price by a large margin. After the dust settled and everyone figured out that the 308 was a V8 dino and the Daytona was a proper V12 Ferrari, Daytona prices passed the 308 and have remained there since. Once the newness of the 360 wanes, and it will, the market will discover that the 550 is a front engined V12 while the 360 is a mere V8 dino and the prices of the two will flipflop. Especially since the 550 numbers are so much lower than the mass produced 360. | ||
| RICK ROMERO (Tr90)
Junior Member Username: Tr90 Post Number: 152 Registered: 4-2001 |
Martin: Why have the prices of the 550 dropped so much? isn't it because of the 360's? | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks for the tips. Martin, what color is the one you have for sale? | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 692 Registered: 11-2001 |
http://www.carbuyer.com/ 30 listed http://www.cars.com/ 7 listed http://www.autotrader.com/ 7 listed http://www.ferrariusa.com/ 15 listed good luck! i just completed my 550 search a bit over a month ago - happy to help however i can. doody. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3687 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yep I have one. I actually had onother lady wanting to sell hers as well. When she heard the prices of the 550s she fainted on the phone. Good choice Mark. Better a 550 than a 360 same year same miles. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 444 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bill Hart's 550b is on the market. | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 263 Registered: 4-2002 |
I know of a 360 for sale. e-mail me if need more info. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2002 |
Just wondered if anyone has a Maranello for sale. I am contemplating buying one. Thanks! |