| Author | Message | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 142 Registered: 8-2002 |
i can't recall being told "ferrari" was sending the tub. i remember asking why the car wasn't sent to houston (as it is far closer than scottsdale). i was told that the owner had a severe disagreement with ferrari of houston. no further details were provided as to what caused the disagreement, it could have been that foh refused to repair the car. i wish i had photos of the car but i used up all my film taking pics of the cars at harley cluxtons before we went over to the dealership (including pics of sn 0844- the p4 that at the time was still in its can-am body). unfortunatley, those pics never really turned out, it was a disposible camera of poor quality. | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
Junior Member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2002 |
I wonder whether a new tub was actually sent and installed on the car. I'm curious why (if what I was told was true) Ferrari SPA would not fix the car, but then would supply a new tub to a third party dealer who figured they could fix something SPA could not. As a trial lawyer I can tell you that the "fixer" of the car is exposed to serious liability if someone is hurt in that car. I'm curious if anyone else has information on the exact nature of the repair. | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 140 Registered: 8-2002 |
ferrari market letter stated about six or so months ago, when doing a serial number by serial number listing of each car, that the car had been successfully rebuilt and sold. when i saw it, it was completely disassembled and you could clearly see the cracked tub. according to the indiviual showing us around (we were sent over by harley cluxton, so they answered all of our questions and took good care of us) we were told that a new tub was being sent over from italy to replace the cracked tub. | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
Junior Member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kevin and William: Yes, New Orleans has some hot cars. This year our New Orleans group brought some neat cars to the Cavillino Classic. We brought sn 0808, the 1962 LeMans winning 330 TR/LM, sn 2819, the Ferrari Breadvan, a 288GTO, an F40, and the black F50 (with over 40k miles on the odometer), all from our local club. The black F50 car was previously owned by Jim Spiro who used it as his daily driver for years.(and I mean it was his everyday car!) The F50 is owned by another New Orleans club member. As for the crashed F50 discussed by William. Yes that story is largely correct. The car was origninally red. Jim purchased it new. It was crashed very hard into a concreate post near the SuperDome in New Orleans. (Jim was a passanger). Jim almost died in the accident, and spent some very scary months in the hospital. The car was a total wreck. The tub was mangled. The factory would not fix the car. I believe we saw the car at the Classic painted silver. It was apparently "fixed." I cannot imagine how, or how well. I hope the new owner is aware. Jim also owned F50 GT 1 s/n 003, which was featured in FORZA several years ago. New Orleans was also home to one of the original Cobra Daytona Coupes which Jim previously drove around the streets of New Orleans before selling it at auction in Monterey (I believe it fetched 4.4 million) New Orleans is a crazy place. Its not uncommon to see these cars making a daily commute to work. And you better stay clear of the streets on the weekends when the New Olreans Ferrari club goes for a drive. Its not uncommon to see the 330 TR, the Breadvan, an f50, f40, 288, and a gaggle of 360s, and 355s blasting through the bayou. There is an article in this months FORZA about our annual event. | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 82 Registered: 9-2002 |
Is New Orleans the friggin' F50 capital of the US or what? geez, every time I read a post it's about all the hot F-cars in New Orleans. Gotta get down there sometime... And, yes, I'm jealous. | ||
| izel k. (Ferrarist)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarist Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2001 |
Anthony i had a couple of these pictures and i was just thinking to scan and post them. It's so sad to see these beauties wrecked. | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 139 Registered: 8-2002 |
ferrari, like all other maunfacturers, must submit, i believe, two cars to be crash tested in order to gain dot clearance. there have been more than several pics of these crash tested cars in cavallino over the years. with respect to the exact number of f50's made, the official number is 349 with 3 gt's. several parts are kept at the factory as well. in 1998, i saw a f50 at cavallino classics (now ferrari of scottsdale) that had been severely damaged in an accident. the accident took place in new orleans and the f50 hit a telephone pole head on. the car was destroyed all the way down to the carbon fibre tub which was cracked. the car was rebuilt and later resold. i am sure it is possible that other f50's exist, but why would ferrari risk losing creditability with its customers. i am sure more than just a handful of cars were used for crash tests in area other than the us. the 349 number is the number of customer cars that were officially released. the whole idea of 1 crash test car as a mule is silly. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 692 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have never seen such a horrible picture. I never considered what they do with the test cars........ Just look at that poor little testarossa on the bottom right..... | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 369 Registered: 10-2002 |
OUTCH! That hurts to just look at. Nice find, Anthony. I think I see a 550 and a 350, so this picture can't be that old, so I guess they are indeed crash testing these cars. So are these the mules mentioned below and included in the original numbers or are these extras not in the count? My guess would be they're part of the count, but I'm no expert. | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Junior Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 117 Registered: 11-2002 |
DES, DON'T LOOK AT THIS! This is obviously a fairly old picture but I believe these had been used for crash tests:  | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 363 Registered: 10-2002 |
"the first car is the test mule and then most of the time it is destroyed afterwards" that made me wonder about the crash tests etc: Isn't there a law/standard in the US or other countries demanding from car manufacturers to show, that their cars survive collisions etc? If so, is Ferrari actually wasting a real car on this or just a dummy or are they exempt? | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
Junior Member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2002 |
According to this article, by making an extra 50 Enzos Ferrari will make an extra 24.4 Million Euros! http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/2002/october/extra_enzos.asp | ||
| izel k. (Ferrarist)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarist Post Number: 103 Registered: 3-2001 |
I don't know the case about Enzo but maybe it' same. 400 produced and 399 sold? | ||
| izel k. (Ferrarist)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarist Post Number: 102 Registered: 3-2001 |
As i know 350 F50s produced and 349 were sold. The other one remains in Ferrari S.p.A. to show in La Galleria Ferrari | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 755 Registered: 6-2001 |
With regards to the 550 production numbers. The number 444 is supposedly an unlucky number in Japan. Hence why they made and sold 448 of them! That is quite an influence huh? The number 349. I have heard rumors from a good source that said Enzo found that 350 people wanted the F50, so he only made 349 of them to "keep them desireable". That was just one of his peculiarities. I think that is just plain cool. Kenny, you are right man!! | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 237 Registered: 3-2002 |
the reason is, they actually do make 350, etc. but only sell 349 is the first car is the test mule and then most of the time it is destroyed afterwards. I asked a buddy of mine that works at Ferrari and this was the explanation for the odd number. | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 137 Registered: 8-2002 |
luca had said that there was a world market for 350 f50's, which is why there were only 349 built, so supply would not surpass demand. you can argue the logic all you want, but that is the theory. hence the same can be said for the enzo, although they bumped it to 399. the production number for the 550 barchetta was set at 444 but changed to 448 due to the asian market and some significance with the use of the digit 4 three times. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2117 Registered: 6-2001 |
Luca was right. If there were 350 F50's made they wouldnt be rare at all. hell, i see them so often, that if i saw one more i wouldnt consider them rare anymore. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 454 Registered: 1-2002 |
doody- the MO at ferrari is to '..make one less than you think you're going to sell..'; hence, 349 f50's, 399 enzo's, etc. i think, numerically, there is no significance (i.e. the # itself, i do not believe, has any inherant or preordained significance), just another marketing tool to retain mystique surrounding the quasi-cenntenial flagships. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 147 Registered: 6-2002 |
Because Italians are just so nutty you gotta love 'em! ;) Best! Ben. (no, seriously, it's the "marketing says there's a market for some 350 cars at this price" "Ok, we'll build 349 to keep them rare! <stands>") | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 360 Registered: 10-2002 |
Not sure I'm right on this, but I think it has to do with the overall capacity of the factory. They have limited themselves for market reasons (supply/demand and marketing/cachet) to I believe about 3,000 cars per year. The production lines and the workforce hired is setup to produce that number. So in essence that restricts the numbers of cars produced for a certain model. Of course that wouldn't define 349 exactly, but probably sets the target in that range given that they still have (and want to) produce the 'cash cows' like 360s, Maranellos etc. The 288 GTO (as mentioned) was of course a whole different ball game, that was about getting the homologation for Group B, which unfortunately collapsed before the car could enter. | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2002 |
Tim/David - Get "Fast Cars" on DVD. It has an interview w/ the F-boss. He highlights Ferrari's direction as a company with the F50. I bought it about 4 years ago from Amazon for about $7.00. Good F50 footage (and sound) at Fiorano. Kevin | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2002 |
It's all about about emotion. Like Tim said Luca said there was a global market study that said worldwide demand was 350 F50's. So they made 349 becase "a Ferrari should be rare." It also starts conversations like this one... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2116 Registered: 6-2001 |
someones gotta put that victory by design show on kazaa so i can download it. | ||
| David J. Smith (Darkhorse512)
Junior Member Username: Darkhorse512 Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Ferrari Victory by Design show on the Speed channel said something about this. I always thought it had something to do with the homolagation rules for making the 333sp race legal in ALMS (because they share the same engine block). Kind of strange since the 333sp hit the track about a year before any F50s made it to dealers. It was the same thing for the 288GTO. But the Groupe B racing thing fell through after the recquired minimum 200 road cars had already been developed and manufactured. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 689 Registered: 7-2002 |
are you all saying they could sell 1000 enzos at $600K each or they could sell 1000 at $275K. The latter comes out to more money for Ferrari, but then the car is less exclusive etc. Also, what is the delivery time for 399 enzos? Do they all hit the market within 6 months of each other? If they made 1000 of them there would for sure be a wait of 2 years or so...correct? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2460 Registered: 9-2001 |
yes, do to demand Monty was convinced to build 50 more enzo's but no more. I am sure there are reasons we will never know but I am wondering whether they feel this is the number where they can be still be sure to keep the speculators out - that said we already see them advertising | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 113 Registered: 9-2001 |
yeah, tim you have it right -- they thought the size of the world market for f50s was 350 cars. they originally were going to use that same number for the enzo as well, but obviously they hired someone to do the research there halfway through... ;) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2114 Registered: 6-2001 |
There research showed that there was a market for 350 cars. they could have sold alot more, i dont know who they hire to do their research, but they should be fired. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 688 Registered: 7-2002 |
Not sure how they came up with 349 rather than say 599, but read something about Enzo saying you should always build 1 less than you can sell. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1617 Registered: 8-2002 |
Doody, this is not the first i've heard of this, either... i've always wondered if there was a significance behind the number, as well... Maybe someone (L. Wayne Ausbrooks) will be able to tell us... | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 538 Registered: 8-2001 |
I remember they were going to produce 350 F50s, then the head of Ferrari decided on 349 to make it just a little more rare.. I know their are going to be 399 Enzos... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 708 Registered: 11-2001 |
i just saw a post where someone said 349 F50s were built. i remember that originally the enzo was supposed to be limited to 349 units. is there some significance to this 349 number? are there other f-models limited to 349 units production? or is it just a random coincidence? doody. |