| Author | Message | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 401 Registered: 5-2002 |
Tim, you say loud like it�s a bad thing  The guy that bought has not been on fchat, although I did direct him here. Bret, I move the oil filter under the coolant tank � it was right in the way. To make the water pump housing, I hacksawed of the thermostat housing and moved it over using an aluminum elbow schedule 40 90 degree pipe elbow form McMaster-Carr. I used a couple more smaller elbows and some straight pipe to make the feeds to the coolant rails, then welded the bajesus out of it. The coolant rails got a couple more elbow, straight pipe and more weld to point then at the new waterpump fittings. Yes, I had to go with bolts to install the intake. Tim F, Unless the quantity is high enough to justify casting the intake and all the welded stuff mentioned above the price wouldn�t change much. It�s a lot of work. The way to make it cheaper is to mount the compressor were the FI stuff is now over/behind the rear valve cover. That would eliminate the custom intake and cooling parts. But the belt would want to run through a frame member, so something would need to be done to solve that. A gear box would be the neatest, but 2 belts and an idler staft would work too I think. Going that way would knock about 1000 off the price. If there are 6 or so orders, maybe another 500 could come off. I just don�t know how to do a good job without buying good parts, and that cost money. It�s like my grandfather used to say, when you try to get something good for nothing, that exactly what you get, something good for nothing. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2390 Registered: 6-2001 |
that had no trouble selling. did anyone here get it? IT sounds awesome, almost like a chain saw mixed with an F1 engine. the supercharger is LOUD. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3155 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mark a few things I wonder when I look at your engine (which I do more and more often now as I'm beginning to think about down the road since the current project's planning is done): Did you have to do anything with the oil filter getting in the way of the air intake or did it clear alright? How'd you make up the water pump housing? With the intake manifold did you change to bolts instead of studs to hold it to the heads? Just random questions. Thanks. | ||
| Timothy Fulmer (Tf308)
New member Username: Tf308 Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2002 |
I cant stop thinking about this supercharger post. It seems that it makes more sense to me than a turbo because... 1) the 308 has alot of heat already in the engine bay. Adding a turbo and keeping the air charge cool seems like a nightmare. If the engine was mounted like an F40 or GTO then it would be OK and could also mount intercoolers. 2)Mark..your set up seems to be the perfect balance. With the stock FI gone..you can get the intake charge away from the rear header alowing a cooler charge to be delivered..a big plus. Can you re route the oil cooler and have fresh air pumped straight in? 3)You looks like you can bolt it in with out removing the motor. Mark how much would your kit, with the custom intake port cost if you had multiple orders? Could you look into it. Everyone loves the 308, it justs needs to go a little faster. You could be our leader. | ||
| Randall Booth (Randall)
Junior Member Username: Randall Post Number: 103 Registered: 1-2003 |
", but Beer, Pizza, & someone who'll talk cars while we're trading off work on thy & my cars..." now if I could just find a mechanic in Hawaii that would work at those rates... | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Junior Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 147 Registered: 4-2002 |
Verell, >>>...but Beer, Pizza, & someone who'll talk cars while we're trading off work on thy & my cars...<<< Sounds like a plan! Maybe i will get REAL GERMAN BIER into the States :-) Enjoy The Music, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 398 Registered: 5-2002 |
Really, the compressor could be mounted over/behind the rear valve cover, then it wouldn't need a custom intake. It would need a jackshaft or gear box to get the belt around the shock support. It wouldn't be as pretty IMO, that's why I didn't do it, but it would save a lot of labor. The intake would need to be reworked to add EFI, but that in much less work than making a new one and none of the cooling parts would need to be modified. The could probably be done for about $5000 roots type, maybe $6000 screw type. Just a thought. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 561 Registered: 5-2001 |
re: "work for high-end audio equipment or ultra-rare vinyl..." Well, probably not, but Beer, Pizza, & someone who'll talk cars while we're trading off work on thy & my cars... ;^) | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Junior Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 146 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mark, Many thanks for your reply and positive comments of the engine bay. Jeff Edison (also an Fchat member) deserves the engine bay compliment as he conducted the work. Will wait as another $8k investment into her is a bit more than desired at this moment. Busy with other bits right now. Of course this could change by the summer/fall :-) Thanks again. ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 397 Registered: 5-2002 |
Steve, The high compression euro model is real more of a slightly higher compression model. You can definitely add boost, just not quite as much as a US spec QV can. 5 psi with a roots type or 10 psi with a screw type should be fine. Go with 10/15 respectively if you add an intercooler. Your engine is almost to pretty to mess with though I have had a lot of emails asking if there will ever be more. I guess there could be. But there not cheap, it's a lot of work to build. A roots type (like the one I just sold) at 5 psi should add 75-100 hp and cost about $7000. A screw type compressor could make 10-15 psi boost and would add about 150 and cost about $8500. The 2 I doing now use a screw type compressor and an intercooler, would run about $10K -12K and can make up to 25 psi boost and add about 300 hp. A little much for a stock engine I think. You could run it about 15 psi to add 200-250 hp, but no way I would go over that...plan on changing the clutch. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 462 Registered: 10-2002 |
With this blower gone (sadly), what *REALISTIC* options are there out to raise the HP on a 308QV today? There has been talk about NOS and turbos in the past, but I haven't seen a single kit so far that is avail for sale (not counting Bob Norwood and his team, but that's financially out of the question). | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Junior Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 143 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mark, This has been very interesting and have been keeping a CLOSE eye on it all. As i have the high compression Euro model, it makes me really go hmm... Comments? Maybe go for it if i can con, er, um, convince Verell to help me this spring :-) Wonder if Verell will work for high-end audio equipment or ultra-rare vinyl :-) Enjoy The Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 396 Registered: 5-2002 |
A supercharger doesn't add as much heat under the hood because you don't run any extra exhaust pipe. The intake temp rise is about the same, depending on what type turbo/supercharge and how much boost you're comparing. Again how much boost you can safely add depends on what type supercharger you use and if you intercool or not. 5 psi with a roots blower would be fine on any 308/328. The USQV has lower compression than the others and will stand a little more, I�ve been running 10, but I think that is the absolute limit. Add an intercooler and 10 psi would be plenty safe. With a screw type compressor, 10 psi would be fine without and intercooler, 15 psi with a cooler. You could probably go a little higher, these number are safe. For reference, 5 psi is about a 35% hp increase, 15 psi with a cooler is about 100% more. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 520 Registered: 5-2001 |
Does a supercharger run cooler then a turbo? How much boost could you safely add to a 308 without changing the factory engine components? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 395 Registered: 5-2002 |
I got an offer I couldn't refuse. As for turbo vs supercharger, it's really a question of what you do with the car. On the street, most people spend 99% of the time in the bottom 2/3 of the rpm range, but a turbo only makes boost in the top 1/2 of the rpm band. That means you end up constantly moving though the unstable part of the power curve, where the torque goes shooting up within a little 500 rpm band and tears the wheels loose mid-corner, not good. Turbos are great at the track where you are always in the top 1/2, usually in the top 1/3, you will just never see the problem. For the track, I would pick a turbo, hands down. Out on the street, I'll take a superchager. The boost covers the entire rpm band so the torque curve stays flat and predictable. The boost is instant, no lag at all. It acts exactly like a naturally aspirated engine, only a bigger one. As for HP gains, they are about the same either way. The blower I just sold added 100 rwHP, so about 125 crank and the engine exceeded the stock torque of 187 ft-lbs @5500rmp at only 2000rpm, so it pulled harder just off idle than a stock car at any rpm, the peak was 300 ft-lbs at 5500. The new supercharger I'm switching to will add about 300 hp, so 500-600 crank HP Superchargers tend to cost about double what turbos cost and are harder to install(IMO). If you go twin turbo with all the bells and whistles, you might spend as much and work as hard making the parts to install them. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 338 Registered: 9-2002 |
Thats what I am hoping for | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 480 Registered: 8-2001 |
Why would one want a supercharger over a twin turbo? I would take a twin turbo ANY day, over a supercharger. It is my understanding that a supercharger can give 30-40HP more, but twin turbos can give 100-150HP more. It seems a no brainer. The supercharger must be MUCH less expensive. From what I have seen the prices are NOT that much different. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 337 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mark, relist or private sale? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 394 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think forged pistons, o-ring the cylinders, solid copper head gaskets will do it. I may drop the compression a touch, I haven�t decided about that yet, but at the stock 8.6 it�s already pretty low. | ||
| Paul Hill (348paul)
Junior Member Username: 348paul Post Number: 54 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mark, Thanks for the info - much appreciated. What modifications will you have to do to run that amount of boost? Paul | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 393 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul, The one I'm selling uses an eaton MP90, which is a roots unit. When I first built it, I was thinking 5 psi, I've since bump it up a couple times end at 10 pisi. At 10+ psi, a screw type is the best way to go. At 6-, a roots fine. In between it could go either way. The new set up I'm working on will use a screw type compressor, inter-cooler and run about 20-25 psi. I had to make everything, so I was really only ever looked at parts. For a Z, I would think there are kits or will be soon. It's a lot easier to buy a kit if there is one. The new Z has quite a bit of compression, so an intercooler will be required for anything over a couple psi of boost I would think. The most important thing is to be sure the blow/compressor is the right size, it should be spinning near it�s redline when the engine is at redline. That will give you the flattest torque curve. Of the roots units, I like eatons the best, the screw types, 5-15 psi, an autorotor is nice, http://www.opconab.com/autorotor/ 10-25psi I like the lysholm (owned by eaton) http://www.rotor.se/lysholm/ I hope that helps a little, Mark | ||
| Paul Hill (348paul)
Junior Member Username: 348paul Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mark, Love the supercharger set-up of yours � Have seen your profile before and always admired the conversion. � Is it a roots or a screw? I am considering supercharging my �Z� � do you have any personal suggestions regarding blowers etc. or any good web sites to trundle through masses of information!! Thanks Paul | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 392 Registered: 5-2002 |
This is a shameless plug to point you to my auction on ebay. I have had quite a few inquiries about the supercharger in the past, so I though some of you my be interested to know it is for sale. There are pics on the auction and in my profile. I�m building a bigger one that is nearing completion and my wife who doesn�t think I need one, is very unhappy about me having 2, so it�s got to go. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33741&item=2403795546&rd=1 |