| Author |
Message |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 955
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 1:59 pm: | |
Only cars selling are ones the owner has capitulated on and is ready to get out and get what cash he can. All the asking prices are a joke. There is not enough buyers out there for all the Fcars no on the market. Great time to be a collector. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 430
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 7:37 pm: | |
Matt,
I agree. Any transmission that shifts automatically is an automatic tranny, regardless of its internal organs.
Everyone,
All high end used cars are in the dumps. Great time to buy!
Dave |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member
Username: Squidracing
Post Number: 406
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 2:47 pm: | |
Billy Bob....I know of a guy who bought a 360 Challenge and had the drivers side cam start to 'walk' out. Ferrari would not take responsibility for it. It was a new car. I don't really know of too many other problems, but it seems that they are not as bullet proof as the 355's.
As far as the F1 gearbox goes (and everyone who knows me here, has heard this too many times), I think it takes away too much control from the driver. A driver with an F1 box does not need NEARLY as much ability to drive it as fast as a standard box. The 'art' of seamlessly meshing gears on big downshifts (yes, even in turns) makes you one with the car. Doing this with an automatic (F1) box (yes, I still call them automatics) adds nothing to my driving pleasure.
I try to extract 10/10ths from my racecar. Playing with a video game for a box removes that much skill that I need to be a good driver. I'd rather 'work' to drive fast and well. It's all about the personal passion of precision.
If I made my living (got paid) by saving the .000x seconds per lap via a F1 box, then I would use one. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1794
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 2:26 pm: | |
I suspect if the economy continues to worsen that we will see a lot more Ferraris on the market this Spring and Summer. And that Economics 101 supply and demand thing will dictate how much buyers will pay. |
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 3841
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 2:03 pm: | |
look for "reserve not yet met"
360 COupe about $ 140,000
355 COupe less than $ 100,000 (I have two)
360 Spider about $ 200,000
355 Spider less than $ 110,000
360 Challenge as low as $ 110,000 (I have one)
355 Challenge as low as $ 80,000 (I have one)
The 360 for less....no way! |
John (Modenaf1fan)
Junior Member
Username: Modenaf1fan
Post Number: 117
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:41 pm: | |
ive seen on ebay and other sites. late model 355 priced for more than 360. |
john (Johnwto)
Junior Member
Username: Johnwto
Post Number: 53
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:53 pm: | |
where are 355 selling for more than 360's???
i haven't seen that anywhere |
ken rentiers (Rentiers)
New member
Username: Rentiers
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 9:05 pm: | |
"per the comments on 355 selling for more than 360; i.e. coupe v. coupe; 355c v. 360. Is it possible for a backlash to develop, in the afterglow, of a cars debute that artifically depresses the selling price? "
Guys - they are just cars. All the recent models have been produced in high enough numbers that depreciation WILL occur.
Now - if you look at the old series, some hold value better than others; ie a 275 GTB/4 Longnose will be worth much more than a comparable Daytona 365 GTB/4 despite the Daytona originally costing more.
Simlarly the 355 is perceived as a really 'sweet' car, and may ultimately be worth more than the 360. We are now seeing 328 values close to or surpassing 348s. And the 456 GT, mechanically the near twin of the 550 and in many eyes aesthetically superior, is now selling UNDER $100K for the astute buyer. Imho the current super Ferrari bargain.
No magic - they are just cars. Unless you have a 166 or Enzo's personal ride they are not an investment. Invest in yourself - buy what you lust for and drive the living hell out of it.
(with regular maintenance of course)
-ken- |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 206
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 8:21 pm: | |
Matt,
Can you tell us about the 360C problems? Also, I also do not like the F1 gearbox. Kinda cool at first but then just an expensive thing to breakdown for a few tenths. What are your reasons? |
Bart McMurry (Mcmurb)
New member
Username: Mcmurb
Post Number: 31
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 8:08 pm: | |
Twice each weekday, i drive past the local f car dealership on way to work. Last year, they had half the space, and it was largely empty (filled with couches, big screen tvs, shirts). Now, they have doubled the showroom space and you can barely walk in there. In addition, each morning, they empty the garage of used cars for sale and put them in the outside lot up front.
if fcars are moving, the dealer wouldn't have the stock they currently have. Our experience in CenFL may not be typical, but all i can contribute to thread. |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 515
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 5:19 pm: | |
I'm probably stating the obvious (or complete nonsense), but per the comments on 355 selling for more than 360; i.e. coupe v. coupe; 355c v. 360. Is it possible for a backlash to develop, in the afterglow, of a cars debute that artifically depresses the selling price?
That is, since the 360 is the newest model, and it is pegged to depreciate at a higher, initial, rate than the platued 355; hence will experience a mild depression in actual dollars paid via a second hand sale?
I realize that '99 360's are, or should be, selling for more than '99 355b's, but are they getting what they should be? |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member
Username: Squidracing
Post Number: 401
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 5:03 pm: | |
I know this sounds funny, but I wouldn't be suprised if 360 challenge cars start to sell for less than excellent condition 355 challenge cars. The 360 challenge cars have been an absolute nightmare as far as reliability is concerned. And when things go bad with the 360C, they really go bad. All things equal, I don't think I would trade my 355C for a 360C. And besides....those here who know me...know I wouldn't want the video game gearbox. |
John (Modenaf1fan)
Junior Member
Username: Modenaf1fan
Post Number: 109
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 4:37 pm: | |
why are some 355's sellin for more than 360's, that i dont understand. |
Al LaPeter (Lapeter)
New member
Username: Lapeter
Post Number: 48
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 4:35 pm: | |
It also seems that 355 spider prices are dropping. Any feedback would be appriciated. Thanks. |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 891
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:03 pm: | |
I haven't checked the link or read the article yet, but I just wanted to comment on Jim's neighbor and the GT2.
Jim, he waited way too long. As I've stated before, I was working at a Porsche dealer last year and we sold a GT2 for $50K over sticker. It's all about timing when it comes to these cars. It's not that the market is tanking (though it might be), it's that the cars are no longer the latest and greatest and have become readily available. You have to be among the first to take delivery if you want to buy and flip at a profit. Anybody on the list for a Ford GT right now? I guarantee that the first to take delivery at MSRP will be able to flip for a profit, regardless of the current economic slump. |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 760
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:35 am: | |
That guy at Cauley must be smoking his lunch. These cars ain't moving, as James, Bill, and Bill have correctly pointed out. 360 Spiders are still moving, but no longer at $100K premiums in the aftermarket. I think the one in today's NYT is a Euro car; US cars are still going for 200--which is over sticker--but supply has more than caught up with demand. Used 550s are languishing, and keep depreciating. |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 741
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 9:51 am: | |
It also seems like alot of dealers and brokers will continue to advertise these cars at a relatively high price, rather than attempt to move them at more realistic prices. Rick Black continues to advertise at silly prices; the guy in Greenwich, who has been breaking Ferrari's balls even before the economy cratered, was always a little cheaper, and still, his cars don't seem to be moving. Most of the cars at Miller, WWoC, Algar, etc. also seem to be sitting. Dunno if WW sold that no miles Dino (it wasn't advertised this week), but all of the local dealers seem to continue offering 360 spyders above 225 and they are sitting.I would rather hold onto my barchetta, for now, given the dour market. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 685
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 9:22 am: | |
I don't believe it either. That's why I posted it. I haven't seem prices as low as yours, but close. Cauley Ferrari has always asked ridiculously high prices for their used cars, and they don't seem to move often.
|
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 574
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 9:02 am: | |
IMHO these are the articles that prove the end is at hand. I remember the same one's appearing at the end ot the 80ies. Todays NYT. 360 Spyder 175, Coupe 145, Barchetta 290. The people quoted in that article are whistling past the graveyard. My neighbor has a new P GT2 he can't sell at MSRP. He ordered it to flip, now that it's arrived he's underwater. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 684
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 8:45 am: | |
Here's a link to an article in the Detroit News about the current sales climate:
http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0302/16/b02-85832.htm |