| Author | Message | ||
| Matt S (F40only)
New member Username: F40only Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2003 |
Just try to imagine the high-speed passing capabilites of that car. It would just be unbelievable. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 125 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mike, why wouldn't you be able to drive the 456 every day? It's quite a civil machine I'm told and my short stint behind the wheel indicates the same. | ||
| Alex Papas (Alexpapas)
New member Username: Alexpapas Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2003 |
I just took delivery of my S55 (493 HP) and as wonderful as it is to have a supremely capable very fast sedan, it simply does not "feel" anything as close to sublime as my 575M (which has only a few more horses,) does. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 735 Registered: 3-2002 |
we may think the cl65 is over the top etc, but deep down wouldn't we all like to see the 456 replacement come out with close to that hp and even better stats? i sure would. so i its not a bad thing that we're having a horsepower war; competition improves the breed. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3197 Registered: 2-2001 |
LOL. Eventually the HP numbers will plateau and then decline so I say enjoy it while it lasts. I'm all about 600hp Mercedes because as has been said, maybe Ferrari will realize that their tiny naturally aspirated engines can't haul around the increasingly large cars they produce. Hopefully they will start focusing on smaller and lighter like they used to. One thing I do wonder is how many of these monsters will wind up around polls and trees. Kind of reminds me of the old hot rods, big go with no brakes... Even the biggest brakes aren't gonna stop a 4500lb whale on a dime. As far as supercharging, it's an infinitely better choice than natural aspiration for a street car/daily driver. Not only does it make infinitely greater power lower in the rpms but it also creates exponentially less engine wear as that is a function of rpm. Not the most passionate way to achieve HP, but in a cold gray sort of way it is the most efficient choice. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2002 |
Brett, 0-60 times are usually quite misleading. When you're below 5 seconds, it's really hard to get lower because traction becomes the main issue. Also remember that these are BIG and heavy cars! As for the Ferrari comparisons - I don't get it. It's not meant to be a Ferrari, and saying "it will never be a Ferrari" is like saying a Ferrari will never have the utility of an SUV - duh! I can't imagine driving a 575M every day, or even a 456 for that matter. On the other hand, you could drive a CL65 every day and put 10k miles a year on it with no problem. And you would be driving one of the most luxurious cars on the planet short of a Bentley. And it would be faster than just about any other car - sports cars included! That's where the allure is. If I was stinking rich, and could afford anything I wanted... this would absolutely be my daily driver. | ||
| Brett Summerer (2tall)
New member Username: 2tall Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2002 |
Well, somebody's fibbing at MBenz. Their website says the CL55 AMG and CL600 both go 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, even though the CL600 has 70 more ft-lbs. Futhermore, I have a hard time believing that another 120hp and 237 ft-lbs only give it a gain of .1 sec, unless you need new tires every time you push the accelerator. On a side note, at least now MB makes something repectable. Up until the SL55 AMG, I never looked twice at any car in their model line. On another side note, I'm disturbed that they don't leave the top one or two engines to the SL only; it's no good having your top performer not be your sports car *cough* BMW next year *cough* | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2003 |
Modman, that is the whole idea. I have two Mercedes myself, and I love them. However, they are not cars that engender "passion", rather they provide sublime enjoyment. The issue is a sort of irresponsible pursuit of "king of the hill" horsepower numbers by the German manufacturers. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2002 |
no car fanatic can dispute that hp is good and more hp is better. however my point is that i dont understand why the germans need to rely so much on forced aspiration. i much perfer either high reving engines or large displacement if torque is priority. turbo/supercharging is a cop out imho. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 514 Registered: 3-2002 |
I know, I just saying that a car w/ 600 horsepower isn't exactly to be faster than certain 400 horsepower cars... The Fcar does it's job fine... But to get back on subject, the only reason I think why the Benz needs so much power and torque is to pull all of that weight... that and bragging rights... | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 513 Registered: 3-2002 |
Double post | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 332 Registered: 9-2002 |
Racer: different purposes... --Dan | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 511 Registered: 3-2002 |
A 400 HP , 276 lb.ft Ferrari would wipe the floor with a 612 HP, 737 lb-ft Teutonic Stallion on the track... so it does it's job. ;) | ||
| noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member Username: Noel Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2003 |
Vernon, at the risk of sounding like an annoying nerd, I used to live in a town named "Vernon Hills". | ||
| Vernon Hill (Vwh3rd)
Junior Member Username: Vwh3rd Post Number: 63 Registered: 1-2003 |
Having owned two CL 500 Mercedes and now having an SL 55, I for one think the car is great. I am sure that I will have one. The CL is a fantastic car and one with a million HP's is even better!!! | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 446 Registered: 11-2001 |
Nonsense to even hear about this or that car cannot compare to a Ferrari or don't sound like a Ferrari- duh to those without a thought. Nor can you compare a pickup truck either and that is why there is a category of such vehicles. A Mercedes was not built to be a loud uncomfortable sports car but built to be one of the best luxury cars made and on top of that some can outperform a lot of sports cars comfortably and that is a class apart from others. Ever owned a CL600 or SL55? once you have you'll understand what smooth power is about and that's something you won't find from a lot of auto manufacturers. And as far as horsepower, I'm OK for that as I am used to the power the current ones have, hey, it's too much power to those who can't handle it and it's those it was not meant for. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2024 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ferraris, Lambos, & some other sports cars are Artworks, SUVs arent never will be art | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2003 |
Neal, The Turbo is actually a touch slower around Thunderhill (and probably most other tracks) than either the Modena or the Maranello. 550 actually a second and change quicker around this ~2min track than the 996T See, e.g., Road & Track test. You're right on point as to Big Brother; how long before they decide to limit hp, as did Japan?? Also, cars like the CL, or even my beloved E55, are not sports cars, nor do they engender the passion of a Ferrari. I don't tell my wife, hey, let's go blow the cobwebs out in the Mercedes; the only cars that do that for me are Ferraris. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2002 |
these german cars are fun to think about but may cause trouble for usa enthusiasts in future. i dont think it will take too long for the anti suv crowd to add these crazy 500+ hp monsters to their list. ferraris et al are considered so rare and exotic that they probably fly under the crusader's radar but mb, audi, bmw are every day sites. i fear the day epa or some agency says 250 hp is all cars should be allowed to have esp if fuel crisis, iraq, etc also dont like the german use of forced induction on these cars. id take 475 high rev naturally aspirated hp over this 600 hp supercharged beast even if torque would be no where near the mb. thats also why a 360 will be superior to me than a porsche turbo even if the pcar can turn faster lap times. | ||
| Guillaume (Vancooper)
New member Username: Vancooper Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2002 |
I don't care how much HP M-B ever has in their cars, it just will never have the sound and mystique of a Ferrari...I'll take a 400hp Modena over a 600hp CL65 anyday! | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2003 |
I've heard (from a pretty good source) that the new Modena is going to combine lighter weight with 460-480hp from the 4.2 motor. Perhaps a GT2 competitor? My E55 is driven quite hard when I'm alone; my distant past includes a stint in Labatt's Formula Atlantic and the F-5000 based Can Am. I also ran up against an SL55 with the 550 on I-95 in Connecticut. Pretty respectable, but the 550 is definitely faster. Not as much as one would hope, however!! | ||
| Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
Junior Member Username: Jcaspar1 Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2002 |
I see a lot of the E55's, E430's and AMG's around here and every time I hope to see what kind of power they have it is driven by some old woman or even older man. Most of them rarely see over 65 mph let alone a track! PS Lets move this to OFF TOPIC | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2018 Registered: 2-2001 |
Wait till Pagani gets some of those engines  Then everybody's gonna have something to worry about LOL | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 171 Registered: 6-2002 |
cool. I for one think it's awesome. Something to kick Ferrari in the arse and make lighter, more powerful cars. (mainly LIGHTER. Imagine how the 360 would perform if it could weigh 1900lbs?) Wasn't the cl600 already faster than a 575 from 50-70? And no, the cl isn't a track car, but have you seen the SL55 pace cars? How about track times? Yeah, they're close to 550 times. (and I know, the merc has a bloody automatic, so it's no true alternative, but it's one HELL of a respectable machine!) Best! Ben | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2457 Registered: 6-2001 |
I dont see why anyone would expect to see this car on a track. The fact that the speedometer is huge and right in the middle of the instrument cluster, and the tach is the small guage off to the left should tell you that this isnt a "sports car" in the sense that a ferrari is. The current S600/CL600 engine already has 493hp and 590 lbft. i guess thjey just want more. It seems as if there is a horsepower war between the 3 germans. Audi is releasing its 450hp RS6 and BMW is rumored to be making a 500hp V10 M5. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2003 |
You know, Long Island is a funny place. I've noticed more than a few S500s and E430s "rebadged" as AMG cars!! Strange place where an $80,000 car isn't enough "Status" for these idiots. Our 550 is a stunningly quick, fast car, significantly quicker than our current E55. Come June, however, we're expecting our new E55, and I'm sort of wondering how the two will compare? I will have to shift the 550 pretty damn quickly to keep ahead of the E55, which will require only a stamp on the pedal to run high 12s. Hmmmm. Of course, there won't be any way the E55 can match the visceral feel of the 550, particularly with center tunnel and aft silencers removed. I'm not sure that Ferrari are "behind the horsepower curve", just that the Germans are engaged in a "take no prisoners" race, and offering cars that the general public has no business driving! We can hope that the upcoming 420M Modena (??) will remedy the situation, as well as whatever V-12 Berlinetta replaces our beloved Maranello!! | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 318 Registered: 9-2002 |
Fair enough points, Sunny. I do wonder what they'll do in congested cities. LA and NYC come to mind... --Dan | ||
| ken rentiers (Rentiers)
Junior Member Username: Rentiers Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2003 |
The car of choice for rappers and hip-hop artists. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Junior Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 61 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dan, Its a breathtaking car, to be sure. And that it does seat 4, comfortably unless you compare it to the E55 or the S600 route, the newer coupes have always looked very nice and well proportioned. Its not the HP that puts a smile on my lips for a daily driver, but the torque that makes you go "Oh my god!" As coupes go, its a huge bulldog prowling the streets, compact (relatively) and one of AMG's finest moderns so far. Debadging it gives slightly less obvious appearance before your trounced anyway. A great daily driver. For me, if I were able to afford this car period, I'd have my license revoked, injure myself or someone else, or make a costly mistake. I'm bad enough in my plain XJ6 and my XJ12's the way I fling them around twice as hard as any AMG prowling the streets, which are honestly mostly for show here in Los Angeles. So to me personally, its a waste if it isn't fit for the track with that powerplant and suspension. Sunny | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 316 Registered: 9-2002 |
Sunny, This car does *not* belong on a track. While it might be a bit excessive, the whole reason I'm on the SL55 bandwagon is because as a daily driver, it's absolutely perfect. Crushing freeway power, and yet hardtop and convertible. The CL65 offers 4 seater comfort (and it really is, as opposite to an XJS V12 to give you some reference), and coupe styling for those who like it. Just imagine the 70-120 on this thing. Talk about passing power! Besides, debadging it makes it that much cooler! --Dan | ||
| TAKO (Tako)
Junior Member Username: Tako Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2002 |
SL65 will be the next, hehehehe | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Junior Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 60 Registered: 2-2003 |
Its the halo car.. or in this case, halo coupe. For those who want an MB with the biggest engine, with all the luxury goodies, and a badge so they can pose around town. Lets face it, they will sell all of them. But how many will end up on the open highways or the track where they truly belong. Just a new car in the exclusive stoplight warrior market, in my opinion. I'm sure its a great car. For all the horsepower, gadgetry, badging, and exclusivity it brings to the MB coupe line, its definitely NOT a Ferrari and it never will be. | ||
| John Lee (Gjockey)
New member Username: Gjockey Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2002 |
Sorry, realized in hindsight that this was kind of off topic for the board. But thought it might be appropriate since public perception is that Ferrari is behind the curve now in the HP wars (ie. Lambo Gallardo). | ||
| John Lee (Gjockey)
New member Username: Gjockey Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2002 |
http://www.mbnz.org/news/news.asp?id=203 Honestly, I don't know what to say. I don't find these power numbers particularly impressive via turbo/supercharging since I've previously owned a Dodge Viper and tuners have been able to make those numbers rather reliably for a couple years now... so if they can do it, AMG certainly can too. My question is.. why? Is this Mercedes way of creating more cachet? IMO, more than half the people that buy +100K cars do it mainly for image. Whether it's a Bentley or an F50. Since there is an order to these things... ie. Ferrari then Porsche then Mercedes/BMW then blah blah. Is this a backdoor attempt to force themselves higher up on a snob pecking order? I don't understand what value that much power in the CL65 has beyond letting the owner say at the his next cocktail party... "Hey is that 400 HP , 276 lb.ft Ferrari yours? It sure is cute. Want a ride in my 612 HP, 737 lb-ft Teutonic Stallion?" LOL. Chime in, I'm still scratching my head at this one. --- John CL 65 AMG: 1000 Newton metres of torque already available at 2000 rpm Mercedes-AMG is the creator of yet another automotive masterpiece which celebrates its world premiere in Geneva. The new CL 65 AMG continues the success-ful twelve-cylinder tradition of Mercedes-AMG with an up-to-date V12 power unit which exhibits stunning performance characteristics. Thanks to twin turbocharging this engine develops 450 kW/612 hp and makes a remarkable 1000 Newton metres of torque available from 2000 rpm. This makes the CL 65 AMG the most powerful AMG model to date. Thanks to this muscular AMG 12-cylinder powerpack the Coup� matches the performance of thoroughbred sports cars: from standstill the CL 65 AMG accelerates to 100 km/h in only 4.5 seconds (provisional figure). Its maximum speed is electronically limited to 250 km/h. The new AMG engine is based on the 12-cylinder unit of the Mercedes-Benz S-Class. In addition to an increase in displacement from 5513 to 5980 cubic centimetres, numerous other modifications are responsible for the output and torque increase in the new CL 65 AMG. For example the AMG engineers have increased ther cylinder bore from 82 to 82.6 millimetres, lengthened the stroke of the crankshaft by six millimetres to 93 millimetres and increased the charge pressure of the turbochargers to a maximum of 1.5 bar. In addition they have used forged pistons, main and big-end bearings made from extremely high temperature and pressure-resistant materials and enlarged the apertures in the injection nozzles to achieve a higher fuel flow. Power is transferred by a five-speed automatic transmission with the SPEEDSHIFT function and steering-wheel gearshift. The exceptional torque of the V12 is always safely under control, thanks to modifications to various transmission components, the rear axle differential, the drive shafts and the wheel carriers. Like all models in the CL-Class the new CL 65 AMG is fitted as standard with the Active Body Control (ABC) suspension system, whose spring struts have been configured for greater stiffness in the high-performance Coup�. |