| Author | Message | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ha Jim, That is amazing ... such talented people working on your cars. Love the story about the temperature gauge ... you can have too many monitoring things I guess  . From what I have read I did not think one of the Rodrequies brothers would have been the type to look at gauges and worry about the engine surviving. Looks like I have the wrong mental image of them ... not just fast but simpathetic too. Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 667 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pete Yes and Alberto is the mechanic Mr Ferrari sent to the US with Mr Chinetti. Coco told me that his father felt Alberto was (and is) the greatest Ferrari mechanic there ever was. I think the following story sums up Alberto best. At one of the major races Pedro Rodrequies pulled into the pits and complained that the car was overheating. Alberto put a screw driver through the water temp gauge and said: "Now its not." Rodrequies got back in the car and finished the race. Best Jim | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jim, Is the Bob Wallace you mention the same Bob Wallace (a New Zealander) that used to work at Lamborgini and did most of the development work for the early stuff, like Muira, etc ... one of the legends of the industry. Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 666 Registered: 10-2002 |
Arlie That's Sal Barone of WWOC, my friend and the person who's in overall charge of the restoration. He restored my MK-IV and is doing the machanical restoration of my Duesenberg. The person with the file is John Hajduk Jr. of MetalKraft who's fitting the body. The motor and suspention were done by Bob Wallace and my friend of 30 years Alberto Pedretti. If for some reason you want to see what I look like theres a pic of me in my Maser in the other Italian:Swapping a Testa for a 3200 Maser thread. Best Jim | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 827 Registered: 5-2002 |
How come James looks so,...confused in that photo? Is his left hand reaching for a wallet that is becoming increasingly empty as the car heads toward completion? NOW we know the car is REAL! | ||
| J Michael Jordan (Fonce_r_cheval)
New member Username: Fonce_r_cheval Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2002 |
In the case of Ferraris, Beauty seems to be more than skin deep. "A Joy Forever." Amazing, about the saving of the weight of two rivets; but just what we would expect of Ferrari. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 196 Registered: 11-2002 |
It is just beautiful in all its little details. In cases like this the restoration and discovery process could end up being better than the driving experience ... er, probably not. BUT I think being involved with the restoration and then owning and driving WOULD be soooooooo much better than just buying an already restored car. The chassis is so well triangulated, and light looking ... Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 658 Registered: 10-2002 |
The engine is out and off to be run in on the dyno. The chassis is ready for painting. We're getting there. Note one amazing detail. The last photo shows the LeMans tabs for the oil cap. These tabs were to allow track officials to seal the oil fill as fluids were not allowed to be added until the car had gone a specified distance. None of the remaining P4's have these tabs and all drawings show them turned in line with the cap handle. Using a very strong magnifier on period photos we were able to see that in order to save the weight of 2 rivets they attached the tabs on the existing rivet line. The weight of 2 rivets! The people who built this car were something else...        | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 805 Registered: 1-2002 |
My friend, Brian Redman, was multiple champion in F5000, beating even Mario Andretti twice for world championships! And he says that they are still his absolute favorite race cars. I was at a Targa 66 event he had recently at Moroso Raceway in Florida. One of the other attendees had a Lola F5000 car, and he couldn't seem to pry Brian out of it! And yeah, they sound just like Can-Am cars 'cause they had essentially the same engines & exhausts! A wonderful sound!! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 637 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pete Those F5000's are very fast and cool. Donohue has a good chapter on driving them in "The Unfair Advantage." Best Jim | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jim,
Yes the XJ13 is beautiful, and oh so Jaguar! If you have X-rayed them then the suspension wishbones should be fine. I totally agree that over restoring is a terrible crime, especially with race cars that look so much better with that raced (but perfectly maintained) look about them. You and your team are doing great justice to a very interesting piece of racing history. Oh how I would love to stumble across something like that to restore ... I am hoping that I will be able to find a Formula 5000 single seater to restore and historic race. That should be fun, with the alloy monocoque (spelling ?) and production based 5 litre v8. These cars are big in Aussie and NZ, and look like F1 cars but sound like Can AMs Pete ps: Co-driver offer still stands | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 632 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tim Sat. Maybe on Sunday as well sometimes they want me there on both days, I'll let you know. The P4 will be at WWOC's Spring Day at the end of May as that's where the final assembly will be done. Best Jim | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2480 Registered: 6-2001 |
I just checked the dates of the greenwhich concours. I'm still going to be at school because up here we are on trimesters and i'm not sure on the dates of any particular post season regattas that i may be going to. Your duesenberg would be in saturday's show, correct? Are you bringing the P4 to the FCA concours at west point? | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jim: No, amazingly enough, Mr. Chinetti, Mr. Fritz and Coco never seemed to mind a 13yr old sitting in even the 3 seater Pininfarina 365! When I was young, I didn't know who the guy in the strappy t-shirt was, but he'd come up and in a kindly manner, he'd say "Please doan shift-ah dah cars!" I guess I was sitting in them doing the "Mickey Rooney" thing! When I found out who he was, I was pretty awestruck. (Remember, I was 13!) Really a place of lost old world courtesy; my Dad only had a 365 GT 2+2, but whenever we were there, Coco stood us to lunch. Good luck with the P4. Hope to meet you one day; I aspire to owning and running a late-'70s 312 GP car when I'm financially able. thanks for corresponding. brad | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 626 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brad Chinetti's was a Cathedral for me as well. He never seemed to mind me sitting in his cars and always answered any question I came up with. Pete You're right. The cost of scratch building anything is very high. I've seen the car you're talking about and it is very nicely done. I also agree with you about the XJ13. I've seen the real one and it is very special; another amazing resurrection. Your point about the wishbones is interesting. We x rayed everything and renewed bearings etc. The suspention in the photos is completely restored and that the point I was making about over restoration. When something is properly restored it should still look period correct not jewel like. Arlie That one would take a bit of work! You have to be very carefull of the engineering on kit cars as some like the Marauder replicas that you mentioned IMHO are not safe. There are however several GT40 replicas that are done very well: ERA,CAV,RF,GTD. Tim This year I hope to be at Greenwich with my Duesenberg but in 04 I hope to be there with my P4. Make sure you stop and say hello. JRV Thanks. In it's original form I think all coils were used to fire the 24 plugs. You used one set of plugs to start it and after it was warm you switched to a new set. If you blinked they fouled. Alberto and Bob Wallace who rebuilt the motor put those parts in a nice box for storage and hid the electronic system that Wallace uses on the 512LMBB's. Hopefully I'll be able to start it without 3 men, 2 boys, a dog, and a fire extinguisher. On the second pic from the top you can see the oval openings that duct from the high pressure area in front of the ducktail spoiler back through tubes along the underside of the tail and cool those 4 coils 2 of which we'll use and 2 which will be vestigal spares. Best Jim | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jim: Thanks for the reply. I remember the photos of Dean Martin Jr.'s P3 sitting at a stop light on La Cienega!! Didn't know that became Pappalardo's car. As you probably remember, Chinetti's showroom and garage was a cornucopia of automotive unobtainium. I used to daydream in the 512M, and had my high school yearbook picture taken in Ickx's 312B #4. Looking forward to seeing your magnificent car someday. brad | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2002 |
Arlie, You would have to restore a kit car to get that thing looking any good ... is it worth it?, up to the individual I guess. In England you can purchase P4 kits that are far, far better, even look like one . I saw an article in the 'Classic and Sportscar' mag about one that some guy built using a Lambo 3.5 v12 and it looked much, much better than that fibro phony ... but it also cost him alot of money. I would build one of those myself, but I would rather have a real Ferrari ... and definitely could not take an engine out of a real Ferrari and put it in a kit car myself, sac religious to steal an engine from a real car for a kit  Pete ps: Now a Jaguar XJ13 replica would not upset me too much as there are plenty of dead v12 coupes ... and that motor is close to the real thing. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 794 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jim and others, I saw this kit-car on E-Bay, and even though being a kit, it is a phony, but I thought it sure looks like it would have potential. Anyone who likes the P4 styling would have to appreciate it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2405046234&category=6212 The seller didn't say who made it, but from the rear engine compartment shot, there looks to be some sort of ID tag on the right hand side. I think Marauder Kit Cars made some Lola T-70 replicas and some others; maybe this is one of those. It looks to have a custom made frame. And where did they get that windshield? I don't think that came from a Volkswagen!!! Check it out. If it was down the road from me, I would be looking and bidding! | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 2380 Registered: 8-2002 |
MORE!!!! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2475 Registered: 6-2001 |
you should bring this thing to the greenwich concours so i can see it. I saw your GT40 there last year. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 496 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jim: The car is absolutely stunning, even in it's present shape. When done, Webster will have to add some new words to his dictionary, to describe this car. It is truly one of the "great" Ferrari shapes. Thanks for showing us pictures of the re-birth of this car. Please keep them coming. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1001 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ohhh Yeaaa Mr. G, it is looking fantastic. What a lot of work! That engine looks beautiful, love the spare coils..remembering back, we never worried about the points packing up, but always wanted spare coils for a super fast switch if needed. Beautiful, beautiful project. Regards, JRV | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 625 Registered: 10-2002 |
Henryk Those are called clecos they're sort of like pop pins. They are removable rivets that hold everything in place and are finally replaced with zinc cromated alum.rivets and glue. Best Jim | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 495 Registered: 8-2001 |
I feel like I'm witnessing a resurrection.... Pardon my ignorance, but, what are all those "pins" sticking out of the rear deck lid? (second photo) Are they to hold inner panels together for welding? Are the holes then TIG welded shut? Thanks. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2002 |
Efwun Paul's car was fixed and is now owned by Lawrence Stroll. It was recently at Cavalino. It is a 412P and was owned by Dean Martin Jr. before Paul. The car you sat in was probably the one that was turned into a CanAm car by Mr. Chinetti and then recently restored as a P3 coupe (Using Piper Parts) and sold by Christies to the UK. Best Jim | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 622 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des, Jay, Pete, Tim I bought this car from David Piper in 2000. I began my restoration then. The engine is an original P4 engine. Serial # 0003. It has the correct 3 valve heads, 24 plugs, and the Lucas Mechanical injection which is unique to the P4. The 412P's had webbers. Only the factory P4's had the mechanical injection. The transmition is original P4 Serial#593A N7 made by Ferrari unlike the box in the P3's which was a ZF. I believe that parts of the chassis, are the remains of 0846. 0846 began as a P3 and was converted by Ferrari to the first factory P4. This chassis shows signs of being converted. This car, or parts of it was raced continueosly from 1966 to 2000 and driven by Parkes, Bondurant, Vaccarella, Bandini, Surtees, P. Rodriquez, Ginther,Amon,Scarfiotti, Amon, and Piper. How much of 0846 remains? I think a fair amount, others disagree. All of the other parts are original P4. The alloy coupe body is NOS aquired along with the rest of the parts that make up this car from Enzo Ferrari by David Piper when The Ferrari factory dropped out of sportscar racing at the end of 67. Piper with Enzo's help continued racing this P4 and others that he built up from the parts he had aquired. Ferrari SPA recast the uprights for me last fall in alum and Campanello recast two sets of wheels for me in alum as well. These parts were made from the original molds. All Prototype cars that raced in 67 were required to have passenger seats as well as windshield wipers,turn signals, horn, headlights, (bright and dim) and be fully road worthy. It has all of that equiptment as well as the required luggage boxes and tools. The only way to get every detail correct is to build it up and then tear it down for painting, and then to begin final assembly. It is about 1 month away from painting. This may sound a little simplistic but how much of the original car remains? Who knows, no one ever will. Race cars were worked on and changed everyday. With a race car "Exactly how it came from the factory" has much less meaning. What I'm trying to do is restore it the way it was originally built and in some cases use people who were there when this car was built and raced. More than that I can not do. As Bob said:" It's for myself and my friends, my stories I tell." I can tell you this, when you see this car in person you will get very quiet... Des the air comes in through the scoop in the door behind the #. Best Jim | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1121 Registered: 10-2001 |
James, looks fantastic! How much of the car is original and how much has been reproduced? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2002 |
Awesome Jim, Thanks for the update. Have you made new suspension wishbones? I would be concerned myself about cracks and internal rust ... but I am sure you have thought about that, etc. Gee, I must admitt I could not resist keeping the #3 myself ... but I guess you are used to the serious history deal by now, which would make me in total awe, I mean Big John pedalled this car!!!, sat in that seat, etc. These photos are the trial build up, aren't they?, as you mentioned before that it was going to be completely assembled and then stripped again for painting and then final assembly. Time consuming process but I guess the only way to get it dead right. Does it actually have a passenger seat?. I believe the rules then (and now?) required that there was space for 2 people, but naturally nobody ever was intended to sit in the other seat. I'm just hoping there is a passenger seat, so I can promote myself for a navigator role at some stage , I'll let you choose which event ... and I'll start practising my pace note reading tonight! Just amazing to see all those little details that differentiate a home built special and a manufacturers effort. Pete | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2472 Registered: 6-2001 |
James, how long has the car been undergoing this restoration? I still can't believe you drive this thing on the street. i dont know if i would trust all the morons on the roads these days. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2395 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ok... assuming i actually understood what you just said, let me ask you another question: How is any air getting to the underside of the tail (which i assume is the back of the car)...? Is it the air that's going under the car that's getting to that part of the tail...? If my questions are too basic or way off base, feel free to ignore me-- i just have absolutely no clue about any of this stuff... i mean geez, i didn't even learn how to check my oil until i was 22... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 621 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des The pic you refer to is the nose ducting which cools the front brakes, and brings fresh air into the cockpit to defrost the windshield. The last pic (from the bottom) shows the air boxes on the underside of the tail which duct cool air from the outside. These airboxes mate with the box around the fuel injection trumpets (intakes) which are not mounted in this pic, (the box is)and which is attached to the engine. The screen keeps debris out of the engine and will be covered with a fabric air filter material. Best Jim | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2390 Registered: 8-2002 |
"Note how the air boxes with internal protective screens mate to the injectors." Is that in the 3rd-to-last picture...? i'm assuming the air boxes are there to cool the injectors and the screens to protect them...? Pardon my ignorance, this is all so new to me... | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2003 |
Absolutely favorite Ferrari of all time, since I sat in the one on Chinetti's stand at the New York show when I was a kid. Good luck with it! | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2003 |
James, was this Paul Pappalardo's car? Many years ago, he had what I thought was one of only 3 or 4 in existence, and I think he wrecked it pretty comprehensively. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dave I don't want to sound too metaphysical but when you stand in the same room with this car it throws off quite an aura... | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 794 Registered: 1-2002 |
James, the P4 is my favorite all-time car--of any type--ever. I even like it better in person than the GT40. I fell in love with the P4 when Alain deCadenet drove a yellow P3/P4 on "Ferrari: Victory By Design" on Speedvision, and I fell in lust when I saw what I believe was the same car at Cavallino 2002. Thank you so much for posting these progress reports & photos. A very moving experience for all of us who value true craftsmanship!! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 619 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des P4 doors are fiberglass and those are the original ones with the paint and # from the last time my car was driven by John Surtees (#3). I'm going to paint entire car red without #'s. Note how the air boxes with internal protective screens mate to the injectors. Best Jim | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 453 Registered: 5-2002 |
I love to see a master piece in the works.. Please keep the pics coming as time goes on... Thanks | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Junior Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 151 Registered: 1-2002 |
I see that Sal is really paying attention Rijk | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2386 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well, most of the pictures are beyond my comprehension of what everything is, but the few of the body are nice-- How come the door looks completed- paint, etc.- but the rest of the body is untouched...? Just curious-- the # 3- is that your personal choice for a number or is that the car's original race #...? Very nice, though, thanks for keeping us "posted"... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 618 Registered: 10-2002 |
Moving right along...             |