| Author | Message | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 553 Registered: 1-2002 |
Guys, guys- -------------------------------------------------- horse�fly also horse fly ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h�rsfl) n. A fly of various species, of the family Tabanid[ae], noted for buzzing about animals, and tormenting them by sucking their blood; -- called also horsefly, and gadfly. They are among the largest of two-winged or dipterous insects. -------------------------------------------------- Enough said about Arlie. | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2002 |
Wayne, don't let anything stand in the way of your passion. We are so concerned about being rational human beings that we sometimes don't step back and enjoy the finer things in life. Life is too short not to have fun. Plus we could be crazier; what if we all restored old war birds? That is serious money! | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1050 Registered: 8-2002 |
Philip, welcome to F-chat. Don't be disappointed, Arlie just likes to stir things up every once in a while. Personally, I'm glad he does and I'm always amazed at how many people get all heated up over whatever Arlie's tossed on the fire. This time though, I think it was aimed more-or-less at me so I responded. It's nothing to be disappointed about, it's simply us doing what we do. | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
New member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2003 |
One of you said it best........there is a little bit of magic in every Ferrari.....the sound, the mystic, the allure, the beauty of the curves and the heads that they turn........all Ferraris are a thing of beauty, whether they cost 2M or 20,000.00.......the beauty of a Ferrari should never be argued....I'm disappointed by reading this thread. | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2002 |
I fell in love with Ferraris when I was in high school after reading the Road & Track issue with the Lusso classic road test. At that time the car was valued around $7500. and I was sure that I would never be able to afford one but I have never given up my interest in these cars and now almost 35 years later my passion is as strong as ever, probably more so. If it is in your blood it will never leave. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 185 Registered: 9-2001 |
Arlie, If it has to be explained to you, you will never understand. I will forever read Cavallino, buy Ferrari books and study the history of my favorite Maranello masterpieces. I will own a Ferrari, but the ones I want to own are not the same ones I study, in most cases. The 125s is one of my very favorite designs and the start of the Ferrari cars, but none remain. I study this car because it is the beginning. I also love the 250 LM, I will probably never own one, but I still love the history and beauty of the car. I will own a 308 or 328 and I will own a 330 GT 2+2, for these cars I study the ownership, Maintanence, and pit falls. I do not study maintanence on a 121LM or 625TF, but I do care about the history. Actually if I had the money to buy a 250LM (my very favorite classic Ferrari) I probably would not buy one. I could have such a wonderful collection of other cars for the price, but I still love to stare at pictures and read about victories and defeats. I am an artist and love to draw Ferraris especially the ones I will never own. 412P s/n 0850 (a car I will never own, but appreciate the shape and history.)  | ||
| ken rentiers (Rentiers)
Junior Member Username: Rentiers Post Number: 81 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dennis said"One question -- how many people go to university every year to get an advanced degree in art appreciation, but will never own a Monet? How many people spend a lot of time studying and learning about (and are huge enthusiasts in) combat jets?" Arlie - you did pick up the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue , right? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 642 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des ROFLMAO! Hobbies IMHO are fine and wonderful things to have. I think we can all learn from Mr Ferrari. He didn't collect ANY of the cars that bore his name. His daily driver was a FIAT. He didn't need to. He carried his memories and his collection in his heart. Being lucky enough to afford one of these cars dosen't make you able to carry it around in your heart. To do that you have to study for a long, long, time. Where does it begin? Look at the old racecar photo thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/207980.html?1046271531 Look at the little girl who is reaching out towards the 512S. Note how her mother's trying to stop her from touching the car. That girl is going to touch that car. She's gonna start to understand what Enzo's "Life Of Terrible Joys" is about... | ||
| Brad-Mo (007)
New member Username: 007 Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2003 |
For many of us this is all about "bloodlines". The true ferrari fan will want to know the lineage that can be traced back from thier "affordable" ferrari to the collector or museum cars. A ferrari is not unlike a race horse. While you may not ever afford the triple crown winner, you may one day own an animal that can be directly traced back to it. So wether Ferrari or horse, It is part of the enjoyment to know something of where the lineage comes from. | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
Junior Member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 157 Registered: 11-2001 |
Because when I win the lottery (and I will win), I will know what the hell I'm talking about when I go on my spending spree... Besides...priced a ocean going fishing boat lately?? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2431 Registered: 8-2002 |
 | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1040 Registered: 8-2002 |
"To me, they're pieces of art... To Wayne, they're pieces of history... To James, they're pieces all over his garage, but he's putting them together, as we speak..." Lol, DES! I hope Jim is reading this. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2426 Registered: 8-2002 |
i concur. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 506 Registered: 8-2001 |
DES: I would agree. In one of his responses, he states that he "would love to debate further". How can one debate with anyone so one-sided? It is obviously pointless to "debate" with him. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2423 Registered: 8-2002 |
Henryk, i'm starting to think that arguing is his hobby... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2422 Registered: 8-2002 |
"Forever chasing an unobtainable automotive brass ring would put a frown on my face." Arlie, i don't see a Ferrari as unobtainable; although i'm pretty sure i won't ever own one, they're not these unobtainable objects, to me... To me, they're pieces of art... To Wayne, they're pieces of history... To James, they're pieces all over his garage, but he's putting them together, as we speak... There's some type of unnamed emotion that only comes alive within me, when i see a Ferrari (or other exotic)... Not sex, not chocolate, not love, not even Bburago or any other tangible or intangible something that exists or doesn't exist can stir that feeling in me... Ferraris aren't unobtainable objects; they're smiles with wheels... They're really sporty history books... They're mobile art... & for some of you, they're leaking in your garage, RIGHT NOW...! LOL... Arlie, it's only for YOU, that they're unobtainable objects... That's such a cold term, completely devoid of passion... i thought you were an enthusiast... | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 504 Registered: 8-2001 |
Arlie: Good luck!!!!!!! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 808 Registered: 5-2002 |
HenryK, I would love to debate further, but I must leave now and check the dumpsters for Enzo models. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2421 Registered: 8-2002 |
"As for Monet paintings, the CEOs of our company bought a few ORIGINAL Monet paintings years ago." So are you implying that because some CEO bought an original, authentic Monet, that's s/he is more of an enthusiast than an art student that may not be able to afford the painting but certainly has more of a passion for the work than the CEO...? This never was a serious argument, was it...? | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 503 Registered: 8-2001 |
There you go, Arlie......now you could argue with DES. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 807 Registered: 5-2002 |
Forever chasing an unobtainable automotive brass ring would put a frown on my face. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2420 Registered: 8-2002 |
"Does the truth hurt? By the truth, I mean the constant worshipping of million dollar cars and the drooling done by the people who can never afford them." No, it doesn't actually... It feels good... Those few minutes that i'm looking at pictures of cars i love, are precious to me; everything else disappears- the whole world is gone... It's just me, in infinite space, with a magazine, full of pictures that complete an equation of passion that's just as fun having as it probably is, fullfilling... It actually puts a smile on my face... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 806 Registered: 5-2002 |
HenryK, I am now responding to your comments, not to the thread topic. I hope that meets with your approval. Re: the dumpster. One of the local residents had placed a large box by the dumpster. When I walked over and looked inside, it was FILLED with about 20 BRAND NEW 1:18th scale cast metal cars, still in the boxes. I put them in my truck. I sold the Porsches and Vipers at a friend's garage sale, and only kept the 550 Maranello. Would YOU have walked away from it??? THAT would have been VERY undignified!!! As for Monet paintings, the CEOs of our company bought a few ORIGINAL Monet paintings years ago. There were prints of them hanging in the hallways. They had the money to buy the REAL thing, not just drool over them. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2419 Registered: 8-2002 |
Arlie... First and foremost, a Ferrari is still a Ferrari... i think if you put an Enzo next to a 3X8, any enthusiast would clearly see TWO Ferraris and not a Ferrari Enzo and some other car next to it... Secondly, every time i get an issue of the DuPont Registry, i don't thumb through it, sighing with a puss on my face- some witnesses say that i start to glow and that i let out an occasional giggle- i know i can't afford the titanium-exteriored car on page 108 of the January 2003 issue, but just looking at it brings more joy to me than physically doing something else that "i can afford"... When Michael Wogronic (Sorry, Mike, if i spelled that wrong) sent me all sorts of flyers and booklets and such on Panoz, Lotus and a really cool booklet on Lamborghini, he knew full well i couldn't even afford the paper it was printed on- he didn't send that stuff to me 'cause i might be a potential sale 10 or 15 years down the line, he sent to me 'cause he understands enthusiasm; he's a fellow enthusiast... i'm beginning to think you're not familiar with what it means to be an enthusiast... Dr. Ibrahim mentioned yesterday in the Who owns the most Ferraris? thread that he has 5- if you look in his profile, you'll see that they aren't all 12 cylindars, either... Does that make him less of an enthusiast than someone who has, let's say 3 Ferraris, but they're all 12 cylindars...? Does it make him any more of an enthusiast than Mr. Awesomebrooks, since he doesn't have one Ferrari...? No. They're both equal enthusiasts, 'cause when it comes down to it, their hearts drop in the exact same way when they see a Ferrari... i'm sure they both stop and stare, jaw agape, tuning the rest of the world out for those few moments... Do you have any adult magazines in your possession at this time...? When you look at the pictures, do you see anything you like...? Not to say that a woman who poses in an adult magazine is out of your league, but do you know where i'm going with this or should i continue...? Being an enthusiast doesn't necessarily constitute direct participation to be considered a true enthusiast- no rational explanation is needed. "Well i know about Ferraris 'cause i own one"... That's such crap- know about Ferraris 'cause you like 'em, whether you own one or not... i own a Klaus Kobec watch- a very expensive timepiece (for me)... i don't the first thing about other than i liked it, so i bought it... Owning it doesn't make me a watch enthusiast- on the other hand, someone who knows all about Klaus Kobecs, the whole history of it all, etc. and doesn't own one is clearly an enthusiast... (By the way, i saved $600 when i bought that watch, as i found an ad advertising it on sale-- coincidentally, i found that ad in the DuPont Registry- a magazine i had no business looking in, to begin with. If it weren't for that magazine, i would've never got the watch..! ) | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 502 Registered: 8-2001 |
Arlie: There you go again!!!!.......ONLY wanting to argue. I did not respond to the "content" of your thread.....I believe enough was said, to prove you wrong. | ||
| Dennis (Bighead)
New member Username: Bighead Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2003 |
Arlie wrote: >Since reality dictates that the vast majority of Ferrari enthusiasts will never be able to own the rare classic V12s or limited one-off special edition cars, what's the real point in becoming a text book expert on ultra-rare Ferraris that one can never realistically hope to obtain? What are the REALISTIC choices? One question -- how many people go to university every year to get an advanced degree in art appreciation, but will never own a Monet? How many people spend a lot of time studying and learning about (and are huge enthusiasts in) combat jets? vty, --Dennis | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 805 Registered: 5-2002 |
HenryK, If this thread is so uninteresting, why did you, among others, respond? Does the truth hurt? By the truth, I mean the constant worshipping of million dollar cars and the drooling done by the people who can never afford them. Undignified in my book. The average guy should put forth his effort where it is most guaranteed to obtain results, like spending your time tracking down an affordable car, instead of wasting time and money collecting data on unobtainable million dollar cars. If you're one of the few who can afford those cars, congratualations, more power to you. But most can't, and those people need to get a grip on economic reality. What was it that Jay Leno said about Ferraris? Something like, he didn't own any because they weren't big enough to carry all the Ferrari books? Even he knew that there are alot of text book experts out there. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 501 Registered: 8-2001 |
Arlie: Why do you start these threads, when the ONLY purpose of them is to start an argument with someone? You should find a hobby!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Junior Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2002 |
Arlie - The thing is, just as Greg has pointed out, is that it is possible. If you want it badly enough, you will find a way to get it. Now, you may not believe this, and that is ok, but I most certainly do. The mind is a powerful tool. The drawback to this is that it is powerful in both positive and negative ways. If you believe you can, you will. But if you believe that you can't, then you won't. Also, as L. Wayne pointed out- there is nothing wrong with having a hobby. With the argument that you use, all hobbies are useless. If you think this, then ok, I guess, but I do think that you are wrong ;-). | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 804 Registered: 5-2002 |
BretM, just because I am realistic enough to know that I will never own a 250GTO, does not mean that I don't appreciate a fine automobile like a 308 or other models of Ferrari. I just wonder how many people would bother studying up on award winning 5 star restaurants without ever actually eating at one? If I actually thought that I would NEVER afford a 308 Ferrari (or whatever model), I would never waste my time collecting books or models or manuals or whatever. (Of course I don't do that anyway. I have 2 Ferrari models. One 550 that I found by a dumpster, and one old 250LM that I found at a hobby shop while looking for discontinued Corvette models). | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 678 Registered: 10-2001 |
There are probably many enthusiasts who, out of thier "love" for a 308, 355, or F40 became text book experts for that model. At some point in time, the particular car they lusted after was no more attainable that striking gold in thier backyard. But, through a few financial blessings in thier favor, became capable of owning such a machine. I am one of those people. Three years ago, I only dreamed of seeing a 308QV parked in my garage. At the same time, I had read just about every book and magazine article associated with that unattainable automobile. Now, the one-time unattainable is reality. Now, I am studying all there is to know about the 355. Even though owning a 355 is more than double the financial hurdle of owning a fine 308QV, shall I stop and give up? I don't think so... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3183 Registered: 2-2001 |
Wayne, I wonder if your "drooling" as Arlie seems to call it, or you taking his bait as you point out, is say as pointless as someone hanging around a Ferrari site with the sole purpose of starting posts to complain about them despite his lack of ownership or logical thoughts for that matter. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1036 Registered: 8-2002 |
Arlie, while I'm no "textbook expert" on anything, I think it's obvious that I'm fascinated by the early V12's and especially the one-off specials. It doesn't matter that I will likely never OWN one because studying these cars is a HOBBY. It's what I ENJOY doing in my free time. If it was all about OWNING something, I could easily afford to buy any of several vintage V12 Ferraris available for less than $100K. Instead, I choose to study, admire, and appreciate without OWNING. Will I eventually take my HOBBY to the next level and become an owner as well as an enthusiast? Perhaps, but for now, I'm content with just being an enthusiast. I ENJOY being an enthusiast. You don't have to be a player to enjoy the sport. Oh, and yes, I knowingly took your bait for once. You can reel me in now. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 802 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hubert, my comments were merely pointed toward the average guy pinning his chances of automotive enjoyment on the chance of ever obtaining one of the higher dollar cars that indeed are pretty much in the collections of high dollar dudes. If you can afford a GT40 or a P4 Ferrari, I don't think that you are in the same class as your average auto enthusiast. And that's my point. The average guy would probably have a better chance of striking gold in his own backyard than every actually obtaining a P4 Ferrari. So why become a textbook expert on those cars? Chances are, you will never even SEE one, much less ever be able to afford one. Wouldn't it be much less stressful to just accept that fact, forget about the unobtainable high dollar cars, and go buy a ragged out 308 and twist a few wrenches? "the fact that they have, over time, retired from racing and come to be owned by someone in the general population is the same phenomenon seen with vintage fords, chevy's, etc." Exactly. So why waste time drooling over photos of GT40s, Cobras, Lolas, Chaparells, etc. Better to accept reality and buy a Cobra kit car, an SS Chevelle, or anything REAL as opposed to drooling over cars you will never afford. Or better yet, any ragged 308 and save it from those who would "part it out" because it's got scortched paint and some dried out vacuum lines! | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
New member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2003 |
Don't be overly concerned with the drivel spouted by some Ferrari enthusiasts. Their belief that only V-12 Ferraris are the real prancing horses has no basis in reality. A quick study of the history of Ferrari shows that some of their most significant and winning race cars and road cars were and are less than 12 cylinders. Don't forget that the 288 GTO and the F-40 (at their times the greatest roadgoing Ferrari's ever produced) are both 8 cylinder machines. In fact the GTO's engine is smaller than the 308's! Ferrari's 4 consecutive manufacturer's championship wins in Formula One have all been with a 10 cylinder car. Many of Ferrari's past F1 cars were V-6's. Back in the 1960's Ferrari even raced 4 cylinders at LeMans! No matter where your interests lie, you will always run across a pretentious few who will do their best to exclude as many as possible from their hobby. These are the V-12 snobs. The V-8's are just as much a part of Ferrari as all the other models. I challenge you to call Ferrari and ask them the ridiculous: "Are the V-8 cars you manufacture Ferrari's?" Their answer will be a resounding "YES"! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 550 Registered: 1-2002 |
arlie- how much is a mint gt500 going for? 100k (give or take), right? how 'bout an original shelby cobra? or, a gulf livery, le mans contending, gt40? probably in the millions, no? the problem with your argument is the scope. i can afford a gulf gt40 just as easily as i can a p4, but should i be barred from enjoying the prestige and allure endowed upon these cars by BOTH being marvels of motorsport history? perhaps i should forgo all enjoyment of motorsport alltogether b/c i can't take a razor scooter down the mulsanne straight next to the lmp cars? you should also remember that the original v12 and one off cars ( most were racers) p3's for example of which none remain, if i'm correct, we're built primarily as race cars, and were sold to the public as an afterthought, and even then as customer cars to be campaigned in racing. much akin to porsche. the fact that they have, over time, retired from racing and come to be owned by someone in the general population is the same phenomenon seen with vintage fords, chevy's, etc. there is no 'point' to having an encyclopedic knowledge of the cars, other than a desire fostered by the passion for them; weren't you the one lamenting the fact that the majority of fine items and collections thereof are owned by posuers without an true hold over the history and vintage of the items they've come to collect? realistic choices: 365 gtc/4; 365 gt 2+2; 330 GT 2+2; 250 pf coupe; testarossa; 512bbi, etc. and so on. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 636 Registered: 10-2002 |
Arlie There's a piece of magic in every car that bear's Enzo's or his son's name. Best Jim | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 2428 Registered: 8-2002 |
Arlie, I think Ferrari's are like the space shuttle. M | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 237 Registered: 9-2002 |
I understand that. I was just trying to point out that people read up on things because they are interested. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 800 Registered: 5-2002 |
Space shuttles, unlike Ferraris, were never manufactured for public sale and were never offered for public sale. Read about them all you want, but it's only an enjoyable pasttime. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 233 Registered: 9-2002 |
I know maney people who could buy any Ferrari they wanted(with in reason of course) and they drive a 308/328 just because they love the car. Their not into going fast and don't really care about the lastest and greatest. They own the car that they like and they relly enjoy it. I think thats all that matters. If somebody wants to spend his/her time drooling over and reserching older Ferrari's so what? Maybe they enjoy doing it. So what if they can't afford it,they love they cars and the history. They want to learn as much about it as they can. I like to read about space and the space shuttle, how it works and how fast it travels in orbit. Are you saying that I shouldn't read up on the space shuttle because I can't afford to buy one? | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 372 Registered: 6-2002 |
Buy a 365 GTC/4, 365 GTC 2+2, early Testarossa (1985-86 -- not real early like 1959). Jim S. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 799 Registered: 5-2002 |
Since reality dictates that the vast majority of Ferrari enthusiasts will never be able to own the rare classic V12s or limited one-off special edition cars, what's the real point in becoming a text book expert on ultra-rare Ferraris that one can never realistically hope to obtain? What are the REALISTIC choices? Even the typical enthusiastic car buff could only hope to afford a nice 308, 328 with their relatively simple maintenance needs (compared to an expensive V12 rebuild!). So what's the end results? Should a Ferrari buff spend his time forever drooling over million dollar cars in a picture book, or throw in the prancing horse towel and go fishing. Or buy a 308 that is, shall we say, not viewed as a TRUE Ferrari by some enthusiasts? After all, if you can't participate in WHOLE HOG fashion, why bother at all if your end result is sub-standard participation in the Ferrari game? |