| Author |
Message |
David Harris (Dakharris)
Junior Member
Username: Dakharris
Post Number: 158
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 5:42 am: | |
I have a Ferrari MasterCard issued by MBNA through the FCA. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 522
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:18 pm: | |
I remember having a Ferrari MasterCard years ago. It was Ferrari red with the logo. Anyone remember this? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 3863
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:03 pm: | |
William, you're amazing, I can see why you're such a good lawyer. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Advanced Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 2706
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 8:36 pm: | |
William
the "general lee" was numbered "01" |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 774
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 8:09 pm: | |
Ha, reminds me of a case involving the Dukes of Hazard orange Dodge Charger, which if you remember, was emblazoned with the rebel flag and some numbers (i forget which). Unauthorized toy maker got enjoined from selling a toy car, so configured, and then decided it would sell the generic Charger, in orange, and make available a decal kit, to enable purchasers to customize the model to look like, well, you guessed it. Needless to say, the toy maker was held in contempt. Case is called Warner v. Gay Toys, circa 1981. Good try. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 546
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 6:23 pm: | |
Rob, well the easy way out of it is the power of the internet: Just mention your idea of a F Chat polo shirt without selling it. Then offer us F Chat stickers for sale. We know where to get the Polo shirt (e.g. Exoticar.com) and in my building there is a talented Korean taylor who can put one plus one together. Voila at the next meet we all show up miraculously with the same shirt... |
Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Member
Username: Future328driver
Post Number: 308
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 5:38 pm: | |
Rob, the sponsors would have to give permission for their logos to be used on the shirts, but that is kind of a moot point since, as sponsors, they would want their logos on the shirts. As far as the Fila shirts with Ferrari and F-Chat logos, that might be a problem since you would be using Ferrari approved merchandise and then adding the FChat logo. This could create confusion that Ferrari in some way has endorsed FChat and that confusion is at the center of trademark disputes many times.
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Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Advanced Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 2693
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 5:37 pm: | |
Rob,
I think William is right but I am still checking. If not we still have many options.
Matt |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 773
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 5:34 pm: | |
Terry: No need to be sorry, you may be right. I obviously was not speaking "for" ferrari, but in my experience, alot of people proceed on the assumption that a particular rights holder tolerates certain conduct, only to be suprised when they get sued, and then try to point to the others (remind you of the guy who gets caught speeding and tries to defend on the basis that others were doing it as well: not a compelling defense, even if, under TM principles, failure to go after infringements may wind up barring prosecution, and in extreme situations, could theoretically result in abandonment of the rights).
As to sponsorship questions, Rob if you were to resell those goods after adding on a logo, i think you could have problems. Most sports related sponsorship agreements i have seen, where nonexclusive, expressly provide for the right to also include the trade indicia of others; sometimes, there are restrictions which amount to exclusivity only respecting particular business fields (eg, no other cell phone supplier), but all of it is subject to negotiation. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 3856
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
On a similar topic, can we take a Fila Ferrari shirt that is authorized and embroider a FerrariChat.com logo on it?
If not, then when a race team puts the logos of 10 sponsors on it's shirt, do they have to get permission from all 10 to be placed alongside the others? |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 209
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 4:04 pm: | |
I am sorry, you are correct about they could sue the company that prints them, but I don't think they would or have. Ferrari, as protective as they are, don't seem to bother with many of these types of businesses. Look at all of the Ferrari Art out there, not one artist is factory authorized. Companies like Porsche are much more strict. I know an artist that is authorized by Porsche, VW and Alfa Romeo. He has been sued by both Porsche and VW at times. Once for having the logo on a Porsche to up close and detailed. Once for having a new Beetle pictured with an old one, stating that the picture showed the car in a bad light. Ferrari will not even entertain making him authorized and from what I understand have not ever sued an artist for producing artwork featuring Ferraris. The pictures on checks have been done for years and the company is still doing it and they advertise in FCA magazines. If it was a problem they would send them a cease and desist order. |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 772
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 3:33 pm: | |
Yes, and i am happy to say that we have been down this road before, including, most recently, over the question whether paintings of ferraris might violate the company's TM rights. Take a look at some past threads on this subject, which, in sum suggest (based on my advice) that a picture of a ferrari can amount to a protectible interest equivalent to a TM under US law. To the extent the check book company is not "offering" this as part of its product catalog, but offering to create custom checks with an image you, the customer provide, they could still have liability,and would be subject to an injuction even if "innocent" as a printer or publisher; they could be exposed to the full range of monetary remedies, if chargeable with knowledge that the use was unauthorized, and of "protectible indicia." As to whether you own the TM of a picture of your car, the short answer is no. You may own the copyright in a photo you take of the car, but that wouldn't immunize you from a claim by ferrari for using that photo in a way which creates potential confusion over whether it is an authorized "product." Note also the discussion in the earlier thread over whether the thing is a "work of art" and hence subject to some liberal treatment as a form of 1st A. expression v. whether it is merely a commercial product that amounts to unauthorized merchandising of the brand and its franchise (to wit, the discussion including the Tiger Woods case). |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 543
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 3:18 pm: | |
Interesting thread: So what you're saying is, that I own the TM to the pic of my own Ferrari hence FNA doesn't touch it if I'd e.g. make my own checks?
That is hard to believe: If I own say a Van Gogh, I am NOT allowed to make postcards and posters off of it and sell them. Same goes for e.g. a 3D work of art like a statue.
I would think we own the right to drive the car etc, but not to make money off of it by using its picture etc (even though making checks is not really making money, but the opposite).
Any Copyright/TM lawyers around here? |
David A. Spear (Detailman)
Junior Member
Username: Detailman
Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 3:12 pm: | |
Thanks, Im about tired of the cute girly things my wife picks out, Her dad has a bunch of harleys on his checks. |
Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Junior Member
Username: Qferrari
Post Number: 232
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 7:46 am: | |
You're right, Terry. The ads I've come across for personalized checks do not offer any Ferrari logos, rather they'll put a pic of your Ferrari on the checks. |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 207
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 7:20 am: | |
I think the company that advertises in FCA magazine, pictures your car on the checks. In that case, Ferrari could not do anything about it. |
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 3935
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 7:20 am: | |
David,
I think in the FCA they have a company that advertises that they put your car on your checks. Always thought I would do that but then who really cares. I use a credit card for almost everything and the power company does not care nor see my checks anyhow.
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Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Member
Username: Future328driver
Post Number: 305
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 6:18 pm: | |
Dave is right. Ferrari is super aggressive when it comes to protecting its mark. Any company that wanted to print checks with the cavallino rampante logo would have to get a license to do so and I highly doubt Ferrari SpA would allow that since they are very particular about who they grant licenses to. They HATE dilution of their mark.
A private printer would probably not do it if they had a working knowledge of copyright/trademark law. It would be dangerous for them because they would be using Ferrari's mark for a commercial purpose - a pretty strong case for a TM violation. |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 838
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 5:08 pm: | |
Careful, though: Ferrari is VERY protective of its trademark. |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 402
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 4:06 pm: | |
Check Forza magazine or maybe FCA or FOC, one of them offers this service |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Advanced Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 2645
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 3:32 pm: | |
You will have to go to a private printer to get them made. I do not know of any that exist. |
David A. Spear (Detailman)
Junior Member
Username: Detailman
Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 3:30 pm: | |
I have had all kind of check book companys send me things and no checks with pictures of Ferrari's on them.does anyone have any or know where I can find someone who makes them out of your pics. |