| Author | Message | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1928 Registered: 9-2001 |
My Boxer as well as other Italian exotics I have owned are superior to any other non-Italian car out there as far as "fun per mile". There are a lot of cars that are faster, handle better and are higher tech, but nothing out there that I am aware of that gives the owner as much joy as an Italian car. Isn't that why we are willing to spend that outrageous cost of ownership that comes with one ? | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 349 Registered: 11-2002 |
"I don't think of it as superior to any car out there except the ones it is superior to" Exactly which cars is yours superior to Frank? | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 517 Registered: 8-2001 |
Very beautiful car. Raised a question with me. I have been told that although designed very beautifully, Ferrari never puts in anything unless it serves a purpose. I noticed on this car, on the 360, and several other cars, the headlights are in a raised area and the hood (bonnet - whatever is the correct term) is lower. I think it makes the car look better, but what are the practical benifits? Does this funnel wind down onto the hood, increase downward force, and make the car more stable? Does this reduce wind swirling back into the passanger compartment? Or something else? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1177 Registered: 8-2002 |
Back to the original question. Does this not appeal to you? http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/18/2128.html?1033567436 | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1918 Registered: 9-2001 |
Terry, I believe the 360 is the first car badged as a Ferrari that has an aluminum chassus. There have been a lot of Ferrrai badged cars with aluminum bodies though including the 275, Boxer and TR. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 243 Registered: 9-2001 |
A lot of Ferrari race cars have been alloy body, I think the 360 is the first production car with an alloy chassis/frame. The 206 has a steel frame. The 250 GT SWB was offered as an alloy body as well as some 275 GTBs but both were race/road cars. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 514 Registered: 8-2001 |
Interesting. From Forza's article on the construction of the 360, I assumed that the 360 was Ferrari's first aluminum car. I will have to go back and reread the article. Besides the 206 and 360, what other street Ferraris are aluminum? Are the race cars made from aluminum for weight or steel for regidity? | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 431 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave - the first Dinos were 206 (2 liter, 6 cylinder). They were aluminum bodied, had knock-off wing center nuts, external gas filler, aluminum block (both 206 and 246s had aluminum heads, of course). There were more changes, but these are the key points, I believe. Others will correct my recollections, I am sure. Jim S. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 242 Registered: 9-2001 |
The difference between a 206 and a 246 a 206 is a little shorter, has an alloy body and engine block, a 2 liter motor. There were only 150 206 GTs made. From 1967-1969. 246 again a little longer, has a steel body, iron block, 2.4 liter motor and I think in the neighborhood of 3,600 were made. Visable differences are all 206 GTs have knock-off rims, and an outside fuel filler cap. It also has 6 louvers on the rear deck instead of 8. The 206 has a wooden steering wheel. I think some very early 246s also have the knock-off rims. | ||
| Erik Smith (Teenferrarifan)
New member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2003 |
Although no expert on the subject. Shouldn't a dino be considered a real ferrari just like the new Maybach(sp?) is considered a Mercedes-Benz. Although the maybach has no mercedes star it is still considered a benz no matter who you talk to. Just my two cents. Erik | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 512 Registered: 8-2001 |
What is the difference between a 206 and a 246? | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1067 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ferrari or Dino (or GM, Ford or Lambo), I think the 246 is one of THE most beautiful cars ever produced... the lines are incredible. I like the Miura too. | ||
| Richard Gilmore (Astuteinv)
New member Username: Astuteinv Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2003 |
I was about to go outside on this beautiful day in Atlanta and wax my '72 Ferrari Dino 246GT when I surfed over here and got stopped dead in my tracks. You Fcar purists should be proud to have Dino as part of the family. True no Ferrari badging from the factory and mine has it but subtly. True I have to explain to people about the separate marquee. Whether you consider it a stepbrother, half brother - whatever, we are still part of the family. I would say that the beauty of the Dino eclipses easily more than half of the Ferraris ever produced. While not fast by modern standards, it was made to go head to head w/ the 911. It was a tad slower but made up for it with classic lines. Now, let's see, you are at a cocktail party with all the big dogs and you have a drop dead claassic beauty on your arm that drops jaws when you walk in. Gee, I would rather have a trailer queen that can pull a golfball through a garden hose. Right. From Anthony Curtis FERARRI DINO: "Many classic cars owe their status to little more than their age, yet even when these are excluded there remains a substantial elite, genuinely superior to their contemporaries in appearance, performance or design. This book is about a car which lies above that elite in turn, one which lies in a class distinguished by a still higher level of excellence and charisma, a class composed of no more than a handful of cars altogether" From FERRARI THE ROAD CARS by Kieth Bluemel "The first alliance between Ferrari and Fiat came in 1965 when motor sports governing body, the FISA ( Federatione Internationale Sport Automobile) announced that from 1967 all Formula 2 cars would have to be fitted with production engines with a minimum output of 500 units. Fiat would manufacture a Ferrari designed 2 litre engine for use in Fiat cars carrying the Dino badge and a new small Ferrari that would be built under the Dino name....The 246 Dinos were the first Ferraris to have pressed steel body panels, that were pressed at the Pinanfarina factory in Turin, followed by body assembly at the Scagliettti factory in Modena, before being transported to the Ferrari factory for mechanical assembly." I have to go now to rub some curves and then take her through some twisties. Ciao, Richard www.dino246gt.com | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1914 Registered: 9-2001 |
Mike, be careful what you say. Even though your post is true, some people will claim that since 99% of the people disagree that the truth can be changed by voting. Kinda like the truth according to Clinton. I have a friend that has spent a lot of money rebadging his 308GT4 back to a Dino. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 430 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike Dawson - you've got it right. Add the competition in the sports car market of the 912/911 of the late 1960s and early 1970s, and Ferrari felt compelled to bring out the alternative. I have reprints of the original Car & Driver articles discussing the Dino when first released (both 1968 and 1970 - 206/246), and this was a major point (competing with Porsche). Tenney - could you elaborate on your observation that Dinos were produced in the Morris Garage? Thank you. Jim S. | ||
| Mike Dawson (Miked)
Junior Member Username: Miked Post Number: 81 Registered: 2-2001 |
Let's face it, this whole Ferrari vs Dino name is about 3 things. 1. marketing 2. marketing 3. marketing The first (and only) rule of marketing is image perception. Enzo Ferrari spent decades establishing the image of his road cars as 'top of the line' cars with features (such as V-12 engines and a racing pedigree) that were unique in the marketplace. His well heeled customers purchased them in order to stand out from the crowd. Selling a car that did not have these features would dilute his hard earned image irregardless of how good the new car was in it's respective market. Hence the statement that "Ferraris only have V-12 engines" and the creation of the Dino marque. A simple marketing directed statement suitable for that particular point in time, not a 'cast in stone' fact never to be altered or ignored. The world changes, new market realities force changes in marketing concepts. The oil crisis and emissions regulations forced Ferrari to concentrate on the smaller V6 & V8 engine cars. The "down market" 206/246 Dino sold well because it looked fabulous, was quick for it's time and true enthusiasts could see through the marketing hype. As has been well established, the 308GT4 design was originally intended to replace the Fiat Dino but was ultimately built by Ferrari and marketed as a "Dino". Although it was considerably faster and, like the 206/246, built by Ferrari, it didn't have the stunning looks. One could consider it to be an "apples to oranges" comparison as well because the GT4 was a 2+2 which matched other manufacture's cars in the same pricepoint at that time. Number wise the GT4 sold well but in reality it wasn't a suitable replacement for the 246 and with no other "Ferrari" (V12 or otherwise) available in the most important market (USA), Ferrari was in trouble. A more accurate successor to the 246 was introduced in the 308GTB. Enzo Ferrari and Fiat were not fools, this time it was badged as a FERRARI (read: MARKETING). Now what to do with the GT4? They sat on the dealer's lots while the GTB was a hit. It's interesting to note that the GT4 is virtually the same car as the GTB with 8" more frame length and a different body style. Style is image and image is marketing. To correct this style/image/marketing deficiency, Ferrari was convinced by FNA, again his most important market, to change the brand name from Dino to Ferrari. As Frank points out GT4s that had been sitting on the dealer lots were "upgraded" to Ferrari status. Also many were brought up to series 2 configuration in other areas such as AC ducting. I do disagree with Frank on one point. I believe that series 2 & 3 GT4s were badged Ferrari (including the horsey on the back) at the factory as they were built, only those already in the pipeline were "re-badged". Note that the "Dino" GT4 hood is different than the "Ferrari" GT4 hood to accomodate the different shaped badge. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1904 Registered: 9-2001 |
If I owned a Dino that had been rebadged as a Ferrari, I would replace them with the correct Dino badges ASAP. In the current market Dinos are holding their value much better than Ferarris. I wish my Boxer was valued as high as a 246 Dino. I wonder if a Dino badge will fit on my Boxer ? | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 230 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tenney, You are funny! | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 319 Registered: 2-2001 |
MG stands for Morris Garages, Terry. Dinos were constructed in the UK to keep them as far away from Ferrari as possible. The prancing horse on the VIN plate was originally a Zebra. Stripes removed as a means to better market the car to Tifosi. At least that's what Enzo told me the last time we spoke. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 229 Registered: 9-2001 |
I looked at the 206 last night and it does not say Ferrari anywhere including the Vin plate. It does have a Prancing Horse on the ID plate, but no mention of Ferrari. On the Chassis number it says DMG (I am not sure what the MG stands for) and then the Chassis number. Anyway, it is still such a beautiful and a VERY fun car! I LOVE IT! | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 174 Registered: 8-2002 |
terry, externally they have no badging, but there are many places on the car that you will find ferrari's mark. additionally, almost all they owners book mention or reference the vehicle as a "ferrari automobile". | ||
| Terry Limehouse (Terrykarr)
Junior Member Username: Terrykarr Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2002 |
William, from everything that I have heard and read, and I'm still new at these [Ferrari's/Dino's], they were not supposed to have had any Ferrari badging. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3240 Registered: 2-2001 |
That Cody Banks movie that Lucas pointed out has a commercial on the major networks like every five minutes. It has the Dino go racing down the street sounding like an F1 car. I mean naturally, why didn't I think of doing something like this... | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 172 Registered: 8-2002 |
here is a picture of the rear of my dino.  it is correct in that there is no external ferrari badging. over the years (especially in the late 80's) many cars had the ferrari script and a prancing horse added to the car. to the best of my knowledge, no car ever left the factory that way. the only one to come close was one of the 206 gt prototypes that was driven around by pininfarina, it had scuderia shields on the fender. other than this car, no 206 or 246 dino was marked with a ferrari reference externally. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1134 Registered: 8-2002 |
Terry, it's not supposed to be there. Still, it is a Ferrari every bit as much as a Mercury is a Ford, a Scion and a Lexus are both Toyotas, etc, etc, etc, etc. Why you guys let Frank get you all wound up, I'll never understand. The 246/206 Dinos are beautiful cars that sound awesome and (I've heard) are a blast to drive in the twisties. That's the appeal. | ||
| Terry Limehouse (Terrykarr)
Junior Member Username: Terrykarr Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2002 |
Not a Ferrari????????Good of him to lend his horse for the ID badge. Also, the emblem was on the car when I bought it. I didn't put it on the car and I know that the person who I bought it from didn't. Is it suppose to be there or not? I can't wait to see this response.   | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 171 Registered: 8-2002 |
jeff, with all due respect, the brochure i posted a copy of IS the ferrari literature of the time. i have seen the "almost a ferrari" referenced many times, but have never seen any of this literature. i agree with your statement about the pricepoint and the daytona. the dino has always been a ferrari, although maybe not as much of a ferrari as the daytona. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ferraris literarture at the time the Dino came out stated "Almost a Ferrari", most owners considered it a true Ferrari though as it had the sounds and experiences of one as well as being designed and put together by Ferrari but many parts such as the engine made by Fiat AT the time the Dino came out Ferrari was trying to reach more buyers with a lower priced entry level car but not diminish their name since it wasn't on par performance and cost wise of the Daytona The 308 series on was all true Ferrari with all parts made "in house" | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 170 Registered: 8-2002 |
frank, regardless as to whether the plate is for us cars only, it clearly indicates ferrari's position on this matter. the car IS a ferrari. i agree it is cheapened by adding ferrari badges that were not originally there. if you feel that you need to do this to advertise the car, you have greater issues. if someone doesn't know what the car is, as far as i am concerned, they wouldn't appreciate it anyway. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2002 |
stupid movie producers thought they were getting a classic FERRARI... Geesh...  I just saw this on Yahoo! Moves, too funny. Luke. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 228 Registered: 9-2001 |
William, Thank you for the education, I did not know that the vin plate stated it was manufactured by Ferrari. Nor did I know that about the sales literature. I was going off the many books and articles I have read stating that it was intended to be a seperate marque. I will look at the 206 tonight and I am sure now after Williams, post that it will say manufatured by Ferrari. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 227 Registered: 9-2001 |
Paul, I guess my point is if you are looking for speed don't look for any 30+ year old car. A Lusso is slow, the acceleration is very poor in comparison to much cheaper cars its top end is not that great either. It is a heavy car with very little horsepower, But I would much rather have a Lusso, they are just beautiful. A Daytona is much faster for the less money, but again I would still rather have a Lusso. A new altima has more horsepower and weighs slightly more than a 308, but who cares. A Ferrari, to me, is more than horsepower, top speed and fast acceleration. To be honest none of those are the reasons I love Ferraris. I love vintage cars, the history the hand craftsmanship, the feel, smell, sound and look of the car are all high on my priority list. That is the appeal of a 246 Dino. Again, I wouldn't spend $80k on a Dino, before I had a 330GT 2+2 and a 308 GTSi, but it would be a good fourth car after the 512BBi. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1899 Registered: 9-2001 |
William, that plate is for U.S. spec cars only. | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2002 |
the serial number plate for a dino:  | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 168 Registered: 8-2002 |
 | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 167 Registered: 8-2002 |
images are not posting, i will post the brochure as soon as i can | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2002 |
i own a 1974 dino gts. for those of you who are insistent on saying that there are no ferrari markings on the dinos, you are wrong. not only does the serial number plate state that the car is manufactured by ferrari, but so does the emission plate, the oil plate, and through out the owners books it consistently refers to the dino as a "ferrari automobile". furthermore the advertisement brochure from that period, refers to the dino as a ferrari limited series range as can be seen below. don't get me wrong, i call my car a "dino" as that is what it is. it is true that externally there are no "ferrari" logos or names, but all ones need to do is open the door and look at the serial number plate in the door jamb. or, if that does not satisfy you, open the engine lid. regardless of your liking for the car, be it for or against, don't go off rambling things in a forum such as this and holding them as true when you simply do not know what you are talking about. the dino is an unique car that many people love. hate it if you will, but at least make educated statements when you are expressing your opinion. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1031 Registered: 5-2002 |
Enzo didnt clarify his statement with "road going" as I remember. His statement does not make him an idiot. He could have cared less with the production cars after the fiat deal. The deal was structured as to giving fiat all the production cars and him complete control of racing which was his life long passion. He could of cared less if he ever made production cars or money doing it. He just wanted to race and fiat was the means to the end. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1897 Registered: 9-2001 |
Charles, just when have I insulted a V8 car or a V8 car owner. I have owned two myself and loved them both. Just because you love something and think it's great doesn't mean you can change facts to make it meet your desires. While I love my Boxer, I don't think of it as superior to any car out there except the ones it is superior to. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1138 Registered: 12-2001 |
Terry, my point is if its slow, its slow. Thats all and that is a big reason not to pay 80k for one.A 250 lusso isnt a dino and they arent slow either. I guess a C5 would kill most f-cars but fast is fast and thats what a ferrari should be. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 226 Registered: 9-2001 |
Enzo also said "Jeep is the only true American Sports car" all though this is my favorite quote, the guy said a lot of stuff that was not true. I don't remember any of my books using the road going qualifier when quoting the front engined V12 thing, but I could be wrong. The road going 275LM was not front engined so it it a Ferrari or not? So what if a neon beats a Dino it could also beat a 166mm. A 350Z could probably beat a 250 Lusso, but the fact is a Classic car is not about drag racing teenagers at traffic lights. The 206 sounds like I am going fast and the lower center of gravity makes speed more exciting so I don't feel like I am slow in the 206 until I follow a 328 or 355 on a drive. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2002 |
Frank, that was just a side step. You know what I mean. To be more direct I suppose you would consider the F40 to be a Dino or how about the 355 or 360. The bottom line is your argument is intended to make your car seem superior to other Ferrari's and Dino's and it is an insult to those of us who drive these wonderful V8 machines. I think you should get off your high horse, no pun intended! | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1137 Registered: 12-2001 |
You are right Bruno, ferrari did say a real ferrari has a 12. Enzo was also an idiot. He makes a statement like that when he is racing 4 cyl 500 mondials. Doesnt say much for his credibility. On the subject of fast for its time, I agree but when the dope smoking yoyo in the single cam neon cleans your clock, its hard to bring up that arguement, especially if he thinks its a ferrari. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1895 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bruno, Enzo said all "road going" Ferraris should be front engined V12s. He said nothing of F1 and other race cars. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1030 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rumor is Ferrari himself said it. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 220 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bryan, I seriously don't think anyone believes that! If so then they have many F1 Championships to give back, including the last three! | ||
| Bryan Phillips (Bryanp)
Junior Member Username: Bryanp Post Number: 65 Registered: 8-2002 |
I hope no one actually said that only V-12 Ferraris are real Ferraris. That would come as a surprise to the owners of 500 Mondials, 735 Monzas, 750 Monzas, 860 Monzas, 500 TRCs (all 4 cylinders) and 121LMs (in-line 6). The fact is that Ferrari experimented with all sorts of engine configurations - I think Lampredi actually dinked around with a 2 cylinder prototype in the early 50s. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 218 Registered: 9-2001 |
Frank, I don't think that people referring to their 246 Dino or other as a Ferrari is necessarily because they are ashamed. I know in driving the 206 around people from time to time ask what it is, when I say it's a 206 Dino, they usually look at me blankly, but when I say it is a Ferrari Dino 206 they knod their head. Most people including Ferrari people do not know that Dino was intended as a seperate make. The Dino GT's are far closer to Ferrari in all aspects than what Fiat has produced. All of the interior has a Ferrari feel, the engine is a Ferrari designed and originally built V6 the body is typical Ferrari, designed by Pininfarina and all in all it is accepted as a Ferrari by Ferrari. Even when new the dealers (from what I understand) had to sell them as a Ferrari Dino, because people did not know what a Dino was. It is much easier to refer to a Dino 246 as a Ferrari Dino than try to explain the history of a very short lived company that Ferrari tried to create so he could compete in certain racing venues. One thing I do not understand is why do we not accept the Dino 2400 series as Ferrari, instead of Fiat and why is the Lancia Stratos also not considered Ferrari. They both have the soul of a Ferrari (the engine) they are both well made and rare cars. The coupe and Stratos are not Pininfarina, but the spyder is. Hell many call the Lancia D50 a Ferrari-Lancia D50. I wonder if they would call it a Ferrari if it was not so successful. | ||
| Randle Roberts (Racerboy9)
New member Username: Racerboy9 Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2003 |
Well, I have two Dinos so I have to jump in on this discussion. I have found a well rebuilt and cared for Dino engine (timely valve adjustment, tune-up, oil change) is quite reliable and not at all fragile. They used them brutally in the racing Stratos with few engine failures. Rust prevention on all Ferrari's of that era was nil. More spacious on the inside than it would first appear. Cool dash. Great drivers view. Maybe not a 12 cyclinder powerhouse but the 0-60 times are not all that bad compared to the "real" Ferrari's. A light, nimble, relatively quick sportscar with a great sound and awesome looks. A Ferrari? Not a Ferrari? Who cares? I have one for all of the above and love it. That's what it's all about! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1891 Registered: 9-2001 |
Charles, it depends I suppose. My V8 M5 is a BMW. And, I have had several other V8 cars that were not Dinos or Ferraris. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2002 |
That's simply retarded | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1025 Registered: 5-2002 |
many purist also argue that no v-8 Ferrari is a Ferrari. This was real big in the 80's. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2002 |
I didn's say it had "FERRARI" badges, just a horse. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this one. Luke. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
New member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2002 |
I didn't really understand the appeal of the dino until I drove one | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1023 Registered: 5-2002 |
And dino's (ferrari dinos not fiat dinos) are accepted by the most purist as Ferrari's. You have to know the whole story and all the background behind why they got labeled fiat. The 308's came very close to being labeled fiats and sold under the name fiat. And some purist still consider them fiats. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2002 |
What about the V8 cars Frank! Are they Dino's or are they Ferrari's? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1889 Registered: 9-2001 |
Lucas, the 308GT4 DID NOT come from the factory with Ferrari badges. The Dino badges were replaced at the distributor and dealers at the direction of FNA after it became clear than image consious americans would not pay the big bucks for a Dino badged car but would for the same car re-badged as a Ferrari. I personally know the FAF body man that changed many Dino badges to Ferrari badges at the direction of FNA in the 1970s. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1022 Registered: 5-2002 |
It is very sexy. The engine is a blast for it's class. It is a Ferrari engine not a Fiat engine. The 206 dino was developed strictly to get enough cars made to be able to race the engine. The 246 which came after fiat got involved is still Ferrari's engine. The only thing better would be the all alumminum bodied 206. Dino's will always be priced by collectors. Also if you check values over the past years you will see that the dinos held. And getting back to being slow. Find a 6 cylinder car from that era that could compete. Ferrari dominated racing with the 206 and thats why everybody cried fowl and made him make the engine a production engine in order to qualify it for racing. And so starts the Fiat relationship. Oh and it wasnt named because of any cylinder counts etc. It was named after his son. It has since been asociated with 8 cylinder and less Ferrari's. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hey Frank, how do you decide who to bill for all the time you spend on f-chat anyway? Just curious. :-) Luke. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1886 Registered: 9-2001 |
Hey I like Dinos and think they are great cars. But, they are not Ferraris. I don't consider Alfa Romeos, Fiats or Maseratis Ferraris either. For that matter, I don't consider my M5 a Ferrari. I think it is the people out there that change the Dino badge to Ferrari or refer to their Dino as a Ferrari that are the ones inferring that to own a Dino is somehow less than owning a Ferrari. Why else would they insist that their Dino is a Ferrari? Are they embarassed that they own a Dino rather than a Ferrari. Do they just prefer to tell their friends that they own a Ferrari rather than telling them that they own a Dino ? Who know their reasons for being ashamed of the Dino name. I would love to have a 246 with chairs and flares . | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2002 |
"Ken, a Dino doesn't have a little horse unless someone added it themselves." -- "The fact is that the 206, 246 and 308GT4 were ALL Dinos regardless of what you or others want to call them or rebadge them as" -------------------------------------- The 308 GT/4 came with a horsy from the factory, no? So how do we classify it, 'technically'?  Luke. | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
New member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2003 |
I agree that Frank is correct about the cars named "Dino." However, to prove this argument, he states that you should look at the sales literature, the manuals, the badges, etc. If we review these proof sources for all of the 8 cylinder Ferraris from the 308 on, we find that they are clearly marked Ferrari. How, then, can Frank have it one way but not the other. Frank argues, continuously, that no V-8 Ferrari is a Ferrari, but a Dino, despite the fact that all of his proof sources and Ferrari say differently. Is he a member of the ACLU? | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1481 Registered: 1-2001 |
A rose by any other name smells as sweet... | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 217 Registered: 9-2001 |
In most situations, about this subject, Frank is completely off base, and I think he is usually just trying to stir things up. But in this case he is correct, Dino was intended to be a seperate marque and was a departure from the Ferrari norm. It did not have Ferrari markings anywhere. They have been excepted in the family as well they should, designed by Dino or not the engine was designed by someone at the Ferrari factory and they approached Fiat to help make a larger number of cars. They are beautiful cars and there is no shame in being a DINO! | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 318 Registered: 2-2001 |
A Jalpa is a Lino. And, to Frank's point, any Tifosi worth their red Polo knows that Dinos were built along side other Dinos in the Dino factory by the Dino Corporation. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 343 Registered: 11-2002 |
Terry, I asked that question for Franks benefit. I figured he would spout off about how superior they are to Dino's or something like that. Frank seems to have a very upitty attitude about Ferrari's. He seems to think anything other than a 12 cylinder Ferrari is not worthy of inclusion. As far as I am concerned anything Ferrari is involved in is a great car. I also just happen to think Ferrari isn't the only one that makes great sports cars. If I could afford it I would have many other sports cars not made by Ferrari as well. I was just trying to see what Frank would say if I asked that question. Frank, feel free to jump in any time. If I am wrong about the way you think by all means correct me and if I am, please accept my humble appologie! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 758 Registered: 10-2001 |
How many cylinders does a Ford have? How about a Honda? A Harley? Is a Jalpa a Lamborghini or is IT a Dino too? LOL | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
New member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2003 |
Frank Parker says: "Terry, facts are not dependent on who agrees with them or not. Look at the badges, manuals, sales literature, service/parts manuals and anything else you want to. The fact is that the 206, 246 and 308GT4 were ALL Dinos regardless of what you or others want to call them or rebadge them as. That's not bad, its just the facts. Do you like your car less because it is a Dino rather than a Ferrari ? I know I wouldn't." I find it rather funny that the "great" legal mind of Frank Parker would use this argument to define Dinos as Dinos and not Ferraris. If we look at the badges, manuals, sales literature, service/parts manuals and anything else you want to on the 308, 328, 348, 355, 360, 288 GT0 and F-40, we find that all of these are referred to as Ferraris, yet Frank insists on believing they are Dinos. I believe he has put himself in the same category as the gentleman he is arguing against. I for one am tired of his obnoxious, pretentious argument that only 12 cylinder Ferraris are Ferraris. He is squarely at odds with all of the evidence. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 757 Registered: 10-2001 |
Bill, the front ends are very similar. The headlight design and compound curves of the front fenders, along with the bonnet lid sitting lower and between them are very similar. The Dino continues that theme to the back which is what I like about it more than the Lotus. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 216 Registered: 9-2001 |
Charles, I think that depends on which Ferrari and which dino you are referring to. I don't think a Ferrari is more prestigious, because of the name. If you look at performance versus purchase price a Dino is more prestigious than a Ferrari. A 246 Dino is worth more than twice that of a 308 Quatrovalvole and the 308 is a much better performer. A Dino Coupe (FIAT dino) is worth less than any Ferrari. A 206S is a very prestigious car, more so than most Ferraris. Its purchase price rivals the big Ferraris, 250 California Spyders or Competition Daytonas. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 712 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dino was an independent brand manufactured by Ferrari. Was it a Ferrari? No, not unless you think that an Aston Martin is a Ford or a Neon is a Mercedes Benz. However, the fact that it was manufactured by Ferrari and carries a plate attesting to that fact makes it something special. I believe that is what Terry Limehouse was trying to say. This whole situation is muddled because of the clumsy and amatuerish way in which Ferrari handled the situation. Dino did not have independent dealers, sales and service facilities. To my knowledge dealers didn't have a separate Dino franchise agreement. It was a half-assed attempt to create a new brand cheaply and, when the cars didn't sell, they quickly dropped the idea and ran for cover. Will Maserati be far behind? Ken: You know I love Lotus, but saying that the Europa and Dino share styling cues earns you the "Stretching the Truth Beyond The Breaking Point" award. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2002 |
I agree! | ||
| Terry Limehouse (Terrykarr)
Junior Member Username: Terrykarr Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2002 |
I like it just find, regardless of what it is called. But you guys know as well as I do, whether Enzo put his last name on it are not, it is one of his. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2002 |
Is a Ferrari better than a Dino? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1883 Registered: 9-2001 |
Terry, facts are not dependent on who agrees with them or not. Look at the badges, manuals, sales literature, service/parts manuals and anything else you want to. The fact is that the 206, 246 and 308GT4 were ALL Dinos regardless of what you or others want to call them or rebadge them as. That's not bad, its just the facts. Do you like your car less because it is a Dino rather than a Ferrari ? I know I wouldn't. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 215 Registered: 9-2001 |
A Dino is not a Ferrari, it was never intended to be a Ferrari and should not have Ferrari badging. That does not make it any less desirable to me. Enzo was very involved in the project and was also very proud of the car. You can definately feel Enzo in these great little cars, although they are not "Ferraris" they are an offspring. The name Dino was an honor, for Ferrari to name a car after his very beloved son it had to be special, And they are. I don't think people should take it as an insult when some say they are Dinos and not Ferraris. On the other hand Ferrari Spa have excepted them into the fold, they list them as Ferrari models on their website and in Rosso magazine, the Official FNA publication. | ||
| Terry Limehouse (Terrykarr)
Junior Member Username: Terrykarr Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2002 |
Frank, I do believe you will be out numbered on that subject. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1880 Registered: 9-2001 |
Terry, the 246 is a Dino, not a Ferrari. Just get over it. Just because it has a lovely shape and sound, and it does, does not mean it is a Ferrari. It was made, badged and sold as a Dino and should not be rebadged nor referred to as anything less or better or different. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 440 Registered: 2-2002 |
Well put, Terry. And the great shape is derived from the 206 S! | ||
| Terry Limehouse (Terrykarr)
Junior Member Username: Terrykarr Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2002 |
Like most of you here I fell in love with Ferrari's when I was a kid and always dreamed of owning one. A year ago I was at Amelia Island for the Concours d'Elegance. On Saturday they have there auction, later in the day when the auction had ended there were still a few cars left under the tent that either hadn't sold are hadn't been picked up. One of those cars was a 246. An older gentlemen, who was looking after the cars, asked if we would like to look closer, and we did. He then crank her up, and to say the least, I was blowed away. I think its safe to say that most of us here appreciate a woman with a nice shape, and that is just what the 246 has, a great shape. Sometimes I find myself running my hand across her, feeling each meticulous curve, the newer Ferrari's, don't have that. I've owned mind now for 8 months and have no regrets, and yes you have to work on them occasionally, hell, its over 30 years old. But when you get in and wind it up near the red line, there is no question, your in a Ferrari. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 214 Registered: 9-2001 |
Frank, You would know! I have never driven a Boxer and I am sure if I did I would prefer it over the Dino. I do prefer the 12 and it being a Ferrari makes it much more appealing to me. The boxer is one of my all time favorite Ferraris. I did not know that the roof was the only steel, good to know. I thought all Ferraris of that period had rust issues, because the factory was not using rust treatment yet. I was wrong. I think the Dino has a classic shape, with very sexy curves and a great sound, terrific styling and great handling. There are many Ferraris that I would rather have, but I do understand the appeal. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 756 Registered: 10-2001 |
Yeah Frank, I pointed that out too then made the mistake in my subsequent comment. My point was that I thin not having the Ferrari connection has made it a very overlooked car. If it HAD that connection I bet they'd sell for at least as much as the GT4's do. Some top Europa examples do fetch $16-17k which is what a poor GT4 gets now so the gap is closing. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 755 Registered: 10-2001 |
Terry, the Europa has two distinct body styles. The s1 and s2 does not have the cut down rear sails and I agree that it makes for a poor rear end look. The Twin Cams have a much nicer rear due to the cut down side sails. I agree also that the Dino is a better looking car. The curves photograph much better and it is equally nice in person. Plus it has a real luxury feel with the leather interior, etc. when compared to the Spartan Europa interior. Both cars have goofy pedals. It sold new in 1972 for about $11k while the Europa was about $7k. The Europa was and still is sucessfully raced however and is the best bang for your sports car buck. I do wish I'd bought a Dino for $11k however!! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1876 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ken, a Dino doesn't have a little horse unless someone added it themselves. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 212 Registered: 9-2001 |
A Lotus Europa, may share some styling cues, but it is no where near as beautiful. It may be quicker, and have better handling. A Dino shouldn't have a little horse anyway, but it is much more attractive than a Europa. A Europa is a great little car, but the rear end is not very attractive and the profile it looks like a mini european "El Camino" The sexy curves of a dino are no where to be found. The front of the europa is very attractive, but the rest is just OK. | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member Username: Icnsltmfg Post Number: 543 Registered: 8-2001 |
The Dino is like driving a Go-Kart. It is low, tight, sounds great, and quick. It has a sexy look to it, and is just a fun 2nd F-car. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1873 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have driven several Dino 246s and own a BB512i. There is no comparison. Give me the Boxer anyday of the week . The Boxer looks better, sounds better and performs better. Terry, Boxers have no rust issues as the body is all aluminum or fiberglass except for the steel roof. And, Boxers are no more expensive to repair or maintain than the TR, 348 or 355 that require engine removal to change the cam belts. Best of all, the Boxer is a 12 cylinder engine! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 754 Registered: 10-2001 |
I betray my prejudice, but a Lotus Europa IS a poor man's 246; they even share styling clues. Except the Lotus is quicker (0-60 in 6.8 for me), handles even better and doesn't rust. All it lacks is that little horse. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 211 Registered: 9-2001 |
I take care of a 206GT for a local owner. Yes it is slow, but it is an alloy engine and body. The rims are nice in my opinion with the knock-offs. In the last year it has cost about $800 in maintenance. I regularly drive the car and I think that has attributed to nothing breaking, yet. It has a beautiful shape and the sound is just fantastic! Chain driven engine so you don't have the belt change. FIAT or not it is still a great car. I just love the mouse hair dash, wooden steering wheel, and the go-kart handling. I really love driving this car. Is it worth the price of a Boxer, I have never driven or owned a boxer. From what I understand a boxer is a nightmare to maintain and repair and has some rust issues also and all boxers are grey market. I know I would prefer to have a 330 GT 2+2 and a 308 GTSi. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 751 Registered: 10-2001 |
The 246 is a drop dead beauty. It has that classic sports car shape from the 60's that was considered too 'retro' when it came out but has aged very well. It's sad some people have felt the need to stick Ferrari badges all over it. They obviously miss the point. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 523 Registered: 8-2001 |
While the 246 may have a "Fiat" engine, the bottom line is it's BEAUTIFUL shape......this is what keeps the price up. This is confirmed by the high asking prices. It appears people are paying a lot of money for these. What would the value be, of a 308 GT4 with a "Fiat" engine? For the current asking prices, I would rather have a "real" Ferrari......Boxer, TR, etc. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1135 Registered: 12-2001 |
I still think its a fiat engine. There is also debate about whether alfredino even designed it or if enzo was stretching the truth again. Ferrari has its own foundry. If fiat cast it, assembled it and put it in fiats as well as lancia using it, then its a fiat engine IMO. I know the 206 is aluminum like the rest of the car but who made that engine? The engine was just one of my points making it less of a ferrari. I guess the engine in my 308 was really a pair of fiat 4 bangers so I hear but it does say ferrari on it. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 222 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmmmm, Cast iron FIAT engine. Yes Ferrari and FIAT went in together to make this engine, but the reason was Ferrari needed to make a large number to meet the Formula Two rules ... thus FIAT came to the party ... thus 100% Ferrari engine, that FIAT made in volume so Ferrari could go racing in F2. Note: The 206 has an alloy block, only the 246 has the cast iron block. Note also that the Lancia Stratos used derivatives of this engine to win the rally world championship ... I would love to own one myself, and know of a guy that has owned one for many years and has not had maintenance dramas ... but I guess with a car that has been well maintained all its life will be better than one that has had many owners, and many car yards, etc. Pete ps: No Ferrari should be maintained like you would maintain a Chev ... ie. never open the bonnet | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 570 Registered: 3-2002 |
My wife has a Dino, she loves it! (I love it!) Sexy, fun, drives great! I have not found mine to expensive to own. Reliable, great sound, a much better investment than a 308, 328, 348 or a 355. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1133 Registered: 12-2001 |
Peter, I see you would add a dino but if you could only have one "ferrari" I doubt it would be a dino 246. My problem is no matter what ferrari I own, Ill drive the p.i.s.s out of it. I dont care about high milers and as Henryk says it wouldnt be wise if it was to be used often. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 519 Registered: 8-2001 |
I had a 246 GT for a number of years, and I agree with Peter......it is a BEAUTIFUL car, with GREAT sounds!!!!! However, the rust issue is VERY real, and VERY expensive. If you have the money to look at it, put it in your living room, hang it on the wall, etc., then go for it. If you want to drive it, over 2,000 miles per year, then consider something else. I sold mine 10 years ago, and still don't regret it. Just my opinion. | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2002 |
what is the appeal of a dino? how about it simply being one of the sexiest road cars ever?!?!! iron oxide yes. costly to service, hell yes. but a 246 gts chairs and flairs has no rival as far as looks go. period! p.s. i have a boxer and a 308gtb qv. my collection will be complete when i have a 246 gts and a daytona coupe. i am single again, so it just may happen!! | ||
| Tazio Nuvolari (Nuvolari)
Junior Member Username: Nuvolari Post Number: 155 Registered: 9-2002 |
Most strikingly beautiful things as well as people are tattered with endless issues that are never given a second thought for they do not compare with the love one holds for them. Yes the Dino is all the things you say Paul but to my estimation it is one of the most beautiful and well proportioned cars the world has ever known. The ownership of a Dino is proof positive that the heart truly rules the mind; it is not for the practical. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1130 Registered: 12-2001 |
Just wondered, I read about them, Ive seen them and think they look OK but not to die for. If you look at the basics, it isnt a ferrari (technically), its S L O W, has a cast iron fiat engine, not the nicest looking rims, rusts like no tomorrow and is outrageous cost wise to repair. Is there something Im missing, something magical that is above me? Not to mention they cost as much as a BB to buy. I do admit there is some attraction to them on my part but cant get over the negative points. |