| Author |
Message |
Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member
Username: Jfraser
Post Number: 246
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 4:33 pm: | |
Rob,
I believe the new ECU came in 2002...Main changes were a new 'strategy' for measuring clutch overheat....apparently the original wasn't forgiving enough....hence the clutch overheat alarm.....the other main change was better control of the PIS setting.....car temperature has a big effect in getting the right PIS in version 1.
Unfortunately, the ECU's aren't flash upgradeable, and an entirely new ECU is big bucks....Kind of a shame because if the had made it flash upgradeable, we'd be able to take advantage of additions such as 'launch control' on the 575 box (euro)and 'parking 1st/reverse' on the Maserati
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Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 318
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 2:45 pm: | |
Jason, I have no information post 2001 with regard to version one or two. If there is a software update, your dealer can assist with that. If Ferrari recently states that the procedure be performed at a certain ambient shop temperature, I am not aware of that bulletin as I've been away from the dealer network since 2001.
In general, the setting procedure is quite benign. I just don't want shade tree mechanics getting in over their heads, this is more for "informed consumer" information.
This procedure will not fix an annoying hesitation upon initial acceleration, which is a big common complaint. "My foot is smarter than the computer." Which is true, and I'm certain that Ferrari continues to improve the system.
Now if version one refers to 355F1, I never raced that system and cannot confirm nor deny. |
Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member
Username: Jfraser
Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
Paul,
I think Rob was stating it more as a point of interest.....I really wouldn't try this; it has significant consequences as to the way that the car drives....FYI, the kill switch in the 360 is the black knob inside the trunk (upper left hand side)... |
Paul Bianco (Paulie_b)
New member
Username: Paulie_b
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 1:18 pm: | |
Rob, thanks for the info. I feel that my F1 shifting is fine. However, would it harm anthing if I did the proceed on my own that you described just to make sure? We have spoken before regarding the 348 Challenge car on your profile. I am friends with the current owner. Is it possible to speak to you directly on this subject? What is the "kill switch"? |
Red (Redhead)
Junior Member
Username: Redhead
Post Number: 184
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 12:39 pm: | |
I'll step aside Jason, and let Rob answer your particular questions.
What I was mentioning in regards to having to use the SD2 is the setup of the parameters that you are looking at.
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Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member
Username: Jfraser
Post Number: 244
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | |
Firstly, this is a really interesting thread!!!!
Red,
I would be one of those people.....74% worn with 5500 miles on the clock......my PIS was cranked all the way to 5.8, which I understand is WAY to high. The reason my clutch was set at this position was due to the fact that the car kept triggering the clutch overheat alarm....
If I'm not mistaken anything above 70% means that the clutch needs to be replaced.
Rob
I have also heard of the clutch setting technique you describe...Couple of questions...Does this work for version 1 & 2 of the F1 transmission software....My understanding is that in version 1, its essential that the car is COLD....When I had the clutch replaced, the dealership actually turned on the workshop A/C overnight to get the car as cold as possible....If I'm not mistaken, version 2 allows for warm setting of the PIS
Final question....I have had the clutch, clutch positioning sensor & clutch holding bracket (3 bolt updated to 6 bolt configuration) changed....I have not had the ECU updated....How was it possible to set the PIS as low as 4.8...which previously would have constantly triggered the clutch alarm, and I no longer get the clutch overheat alarm trigger (which I believe is a software strategy in the ECU that wasn't updated...I think version 2 has a new clutch overheat strategy)
Basically, I got really pissed off at having to change out the clutch so early, and frankly I never thought Ferrari were being strictly truthful about what was going on.....I had previously had the PIS reset 4 times (because of the clutch alarm) and when I brought this to their attention and the necessity to have the PIS set so high to rectify the problem, their response was that they weren't going to contribute to the costs as my previous problems were a setting issue and not indicative of any malfunctioning parts. |
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 317
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 10:35 am: | |
Noel, your car probably doesn't need it. It's mandatory when replacing the clutch, the only other times I've performed the operation is during troubleshooting as I was "grasping at straws" to a difficult issue.
If it feels slow to engage from a stop, that's a judgment call best left to a pro who's driven enough to know the difference. It's difficult because the actuator takes inputs from a variety of sensors to determine the proper engagement rate. It determines if you're drag racing or parallel parking.
If the shifts are slow in aggressive sport mode full throttle driving, usually a quick bleed will cure that. |
noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member
Username: Noel
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 10:18 am: | |
Rob, thanks for the info, very cool. how can i tell if i need to do this on my car now? |
Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 1295
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 8:15 am: | |
Great info Rob! Thanks..
Ernesto |
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 315
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 8:03 am: | |
What you need SDII for is clutch/shifter hydraulic system bleeding. This vastly improves slow shifting in sport mode. All of the new 360 Challenge cars I have prepared required this proceedure. Then I'd do this once pre race event as normal reventative maintenance, though for a street driven car, this is not a normal maintenance item.
Also need SDII for shifer learning mode. The SDII actually "shifts" into each gear to calibrate the sensors and actuators. |
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 314
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 7:58 am: | |
Ferrari 360 Modena: Point of Initial Slippage
1. Shut off kill switch
2. Turn on kill switch and ignition, wait 30 secconds for throttle self learn
3. Start engine / shut off three times, do not touch throttle
4. Start engine, foot on brake, engage 1st gear, no throttle, run at idle in gear for 30 � 60 secconds
NB: No SDII required, I've done this many times. Works. Disclaimer: I have factory training, if you do this on your own, you're on your own, I have no liability, this is strictly FYI. |
Red (Redhead)
Junior Member
Username: Redhead
Post Number: 183
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 12:53 am: | |
Oh, and if its not set within an acceptable range, the slip will be too great, and wear to quickly.
We have seen clutches at 70% wear with less then 5k on the odo. This is casused by the PIS setting being to great, and the clutch is slipping too much.
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Red (Redhead)
Junior Member
Username: Redhead
Post Number: 182
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 12:48 am: | |
What is most comonly set, is called the PIS. Point of inital slip. This is when the clutch will start to slip, as any clutch does, when you apply the throtle. The PIS is adjustable and can be set up for different types of driving, i.e. track use mainly. Of course, it is set up on the SD2.
Hope this helps. |
noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member
Username: Noel
Post Number: 66
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 11:14 pm: | |
I was reading that the clutch on the 360 F1 needs to be "set", what does that mean? how do you know if it is set properly and what happens if it's not(premature wear?)? |