| Author | Message | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 245 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm suprised to see how far the 456's have dropped. I see autosport design's has one for 87.5 and it looks clean and straight. I'm thinking the 456 will end up like the 400 is now at the lower end of the price scale but in my opinion the 456 is a beautiful car. I'm still seeing 355's advertised for 120-130k but that seems to be at authorized F-car dealers. They most likely try to use the fact that they are fact. authorized trained mechanics etc to demand a premium. Also I came across this tonight it piqued my interest check out www.gullwingmotorcars.com the 308 on page 3. | ||
| Bryan Phillips (Bryanp)
Junior Member Username: Bryanp Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2002 |
To follow up on Don V.'s point re: older cars - I agree completely that you're dealing w/ a completely set of buyers when it comes to the older Ferraris. The thing that fascinates me, though, is that w/ every new price-appreciation cycle, a once unloved vintage Ferrari becomes the darling and the prices go nuts. For years/decades, Boano or Ellena Coupes were in the so-so category, wasting away in garages and not worth the (economically sane) restoration process (those of us in love would irrationally spend the money anyway). This last appreciation cycle, the Boano prices went nuts. Which vintage Ferrari will be the darling of the next round? My bet is the 250 PF Coupe. Because they have been undervalued for so long (and cannabalized for Testa Rossa and GTO conversions), I believe they will soon be as rare as Lussos; there were 353 made and the keeper of the 250 PF register thinks there may be only 175 left. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 819 Registered: 10-2002 |
Todays NYT: 360 F1 Coupe with factory sunroof,etc 158 360 F1 Spyder 189 550 with 1240 miles 156 several 355 very low mile spyders 3 Enzo's etc, etc, etc... | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 79 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ghost, I looked, but on their site, no prices are listed. I, too, thought that 112K is kind of ridiculous, maybe it's a typo. Jake | ||
| Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
Junior Member Username: Threefivefive Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jake, check to make sure that the 360 they are selling is not a Euro import, since I haven't seen a dealer sell a US car at that low a price -- especially given that it's an F-1, which commands a modest premium over the manual. I just checked their inventory and notice that they have two black 355 GTS' for sale -- a 1998 and 1995. Too lazy to check if these are the same cars on auction on eBay, but I think one of them is. Regards. | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2002 |
In the March 17th issue of Autoweek, Foreign Cars Italia has 1999 360 F1 coupe, with 12K miles, listed for sale at $112,900 Is this correct? I believe they are an auth. dealer. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 440 Registered: 10-2001 |
Looked at the Florida Auto Trader for Sportscars today at the newstand. Funny to see 97 355 spyder 11k miles, for $89 next to an ad for a 96 355 spyder 16k miles for $124k, and a 95 coupe for $104k (all low miles under 15k). I am seeing 355's in the $70's (coupe) and $80's spyder right next to the same or older cars for Over $100k and over $125k. You can tell who has up-dated their ad lately. | ||
| Don Vollum (Donv)
Junior Member Username: Donv Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>250, 275, 365, 246, 288, & F50 model prices will all drop 10% as more comfortable new street cars and 360 Challenge cars become available. This will happen after the new-spyder resale-idiots all loose money (like they are w/360 Spyders now). << I doubt this. I don't think most people who are considering a 250, 275, or 365 (any model) are going to think, hmm, I maybe I should get a 355 for the same money. People who buy those older cars (I'm one of them) *want* a vintage car. That said, of course prices on the old cars will fluctuate by 10% or so, but I believe they will generally remain stable. What I have noticed is that the spread between so-so cars and great cars has widened a lot. In some cases, great cars and still strong and so-so cars are virtually unsalable (365GTC/4s, for instance). BTW, I like 456's as well. However, I also think their prices will continue to drop. | ||
| Ming Cheng (Onlinesys)
Junior Member Username: Onlinesys Post Number: 237 Registered: 5-2002 |
Henry, Yes, it was selling at US$450K way back in 1994 for the first 2 or 3 available in RHD. We did have very high import tax on private vehicle and we are now having even worst progressive luxury tax on vehicle starting from Mar. 8, 2003. Any private vehicle costs more than US$75k net. The excess value will be imposed 150% tax rather than 60% (for instance, a SL55 AMG used to be US$200k retail will become US$20K). A M456GT selling at US$375K retail at the moment will cost more than US$480K!!!! | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 565 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ming; You could probably drive that car for a number of years, and loose very little, if any on it. That is how I like to buy my Ferraris. Are you sure it was $450K in '94.....seems very high. If so, WHAT a BIG depreciation hit!!!!!!!! | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1150 Registered: 10-2001 |
I absolutely love the 456! | ||
| Ming Cheng (Onlinesys)
Junior Member Username: Onlinesys Post Number: 236 Registered: 5-2002 |
I like my 456GT. For US$53k I got a good condition 94' 456GT with 6-speed and one year full warranty direct from the agent in HK. I could use it everyday and hear the great sound of the V12. I am happy that not many people like the subtle 456 so that poor person like myself could afford a used to be US$450K car when it was selling in 1994. | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think Jay hit the nail on the head there.There's a 308 at a small muscle car dealer in my area.It's a 78 or 79 in not better than average condition maybe not even average and they want $38,000 for it.Hell I could probably get a 328 for that. It should be a 20-25 dollar car at most from the looks of it. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 89 Registered: 12-2002 |
I like the 456 and FODenver is selling a 1995 Ferrari 456GT for $69K!!! Luke. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Junior Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 200 Registered: 1-2003 |
Pete, Your quote on the 456. "Nobody I know likes them at all". Why do you have it in your profile that it is the car you desire?? | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1148 Registered: 10-2001 |
Bottom line is a good clean car will bring the money. Problem is, everyone thinks that because it is a Ferrari is should get top dollar. Unless you got the documentation for the past several years expect to spend the money on getting it right, regardless of what the seller tells you. | ||
| Brad-Mo (007)
New member Username: 007 Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2003 |
These numbers seem right on the mark to me. 355 prices may fall even a little lower just because of the # produced and many might flood the market in the short term because of 355 owners switching to 360's now that the Modena is more correctly priced. | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 259 Registered: 11-2001 |
I think Pete's predictions for the North American market are right on the money. After consulting my Tarro cards, here is my opinion on a few minor points. Below asking prices are for FCA Gold/Silver Award quality cars (add $5K for Platinum). First, the 308/328 prices will climb back up to where they were 2 years ago. They should fluctuate above and below that mark for the next 5 years. They were at a low point about 9 months ago. GTS and GTB prices will equal each other. Anyone who thinks they can find a Gold Award Red 308QV for under $40 is on crack. Pristine GTBi and GT4 models will become more rare too as the ratty ones get converted to club racers. Another reason for the 512 engined cars declining in value is fear of the engine out clutch repair. However, I think the Boxers will stay about where they are ($65K silver-$85 platinum) and the 512TR will follow closely with F355B/S prices and will not go much below $85K in the next two years for normal 20K mile examples (Add $10K for Spyder). Eventually, I expect TR and 348B prices to be around '86-'88 328 prices ($50K) because many folks are emotionally scared of them. 348 Spyders will probably come down to hover at $65K/$70K after the 355 Spyder breaks $100K. F512M, 550 and 360 prices should become the same, so one has a nice and difficult choice to make. I expect both to stay about $10k-$15K above a 355, which should see them at the $95K/$100K mark in 2 years. But, only after the new model comes out and the super inflated resale price on that one drops (ala 360 history). Spyders will come down to about $130 in the next few years, but not lower for a while. We will not see 575M prices below $175K for at least 2 years. 550PB's will be equal in cost to a 575 fairly soon. 456/M prices may drop to the $60K/$70K mark. But not much less in the next few years, as a Gold Award 400/412GT is still a $40/$50K car. 250, 275, 365, 246, 288, & F50 model prices will all drop 10% as more comfortable new street cars and 360 Challenge cars become available. This will happen after the new-spyder resale-idiots all loose money (like they are w/360 Spyders now). F40 prices will keep going up because the track types all want one. Especially the LM versions. Am I inhaling too much second hand smoke, or does anyone else see the same thing in their crystal ball? | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 306 Registered: 2-2002 |
I have the original 326 with the 4spd Hurst and A/c in it. Right now I just sent in my request to the Pontiac Historical Society to see if my car actually came with those options. We have had it in the family for about 15 years so if those were changed it would have had to happen b4 us. My guess if it is original it might be 1 of about 600 ever made. I know there was only 1200 ragtops with the 4sd but don't know how many had the A/C option. so who really knows how many are left maybe 300-400 tops | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 231 Registered: 5-2002 |
The guy sounds like he was pretty much clueless. Pat, what do you have for an engine in your Lemans? I used to be a diehard Pontiac guy myself. | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 305 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thats what i thought. it amazes me that this guy would lie to a possible customer. They actually have a nice 2003 SL500 that my mother was looking to trade her 03 CLK 500 for it but I don't think I would let her go within a 100 yards of that place | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2002 |
No way they let a 360 go for 42k! | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 304 Registered: 2-2002 |
That is what I thought also but he was very sure about just 42k I told him i would have doubled that in a heartbeat and it would have been gone just as fast. He must be to silly from selling all those dodges | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 721 Registered: 2-2002 |
It had to be 142. | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'm not sure i beleive what i'm going to post but i thought you guys might get a kick out of what this salesguy told me last night. I saw a 2000 360 for sale in the paper at a local dodge dealer(i know what are they doing with it) well i waited about a week to go and check it out. I went last night and they guy there told me that they just wholesaled it out for almost nothing. I asked what is almost nothing and he tried to tell me 42 grand!! Now this guy has to be sucking the tailpipes of the cars he is selling. What would make a sales guy or woman blow smoke up a possible buyers a*@ that know he is lying right to them. It couldn't be possible that they wholesaled it off for that price is it? | ||
| pete (Pete_peter)
New member Username: Pete_peter Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2002 |
i think (here in the US) : 308's and 328's in excellent condition are becoming scarce, and the values have been, and will, continue to rise. Last of the curvy ferrari's, well, at least until the 360 came along F355's = heading down. WAY too many of them testa's = heading down slowly. Not too many people want the car. too big. Even mint cond. ones heading down slightly 512's = still heading down, same problem as testarossa bb512 = good investment long term 456's = heading directly into the ground. nobody i know likes the thing AT ALL 550's = almost as bad as 456's 348's = good ones will hold, rough one's will continue to fall but gradually. spyders will hold if kept pristine Mondials = will hold, even rough ones. mint ones will rise slowly. (car has a dual purpose) f40's & 288's = hold to slightly down (alot premimum, younger buyers with bucks want something newer, thus, it's left to mid-life guys to pick these up) 360's = too early to tell | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1963 Registered: 9-2001 |
Jay, in the USA I think you're correct. But, in europe its a different story. Both the TR and BB512i I mentioned were listed by the auction company as "like new" 1- cars with cam belt services done. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 541 Registered: 8-2001 |
I thought, that after 1990, one could NOT import, nor re-import, a Boxer into the States anymore. If one here was for sale, for $42,000, in good shape, it would be sold in seconds.!!!!!!!!! This would also be true of a TR, for $36,000. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2112 Registered: 2-2001 |
308s & 328 have been rising, TR for $36k is scarey | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1138 Registered: 10-2001 |
The cars that are bringing these low prices are all dead. Prepare to spend the same amount on repair to get them safe and driving the way they should. A $25K 328 will need another $25K to make it presentable. | ||
| David S (Djs308)
Junior Member Username: Djs308 Post Number: 95 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'm certainly no expert on this topic but in my observations, it seems as if the low end (308/328/Mondial) market has hit near bottom. In fact, some cars seem to be appreciating slightly. Low mileage or otherwise mint 308 QV's still seem to be between $35k and 45k. High mileage/less than mint cars of course appear to be plentiful for much less. Mondial QVs can be had in the twenties but the T cabrio's are still WAY up there! | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2002 |
would 17% VAT apply if the car is for export only? Most other items exported are exempt. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 182 Registered: 8-2002 |
Add 18% commssion for auctioneer and 17% VAT your close to 60k for the Boxer not much of a bargain | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2002 |
If anyone runs into a dry sump euro fiberglass 308 in the mid 20's let me know. I'm game for that!  In all seriousness. Two examples do not dictate the direction an entire marque is headed. I've been looking for particular cars for quite some time and the prices have not budged much at all. | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2002 |
Frank I agree that the market is down lower than it has been but a 25 thousand dollar 328 means the 308 would be in the teens and I haven't seen any nice cars near that price range yet.I hope they come down to a more realistic level. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2002 |
If a BBi only has 11k km one has to wonder what kind of work has to go into the car to make it run like it should. These cars should be driven. Maybe that's why the price is so depressed. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2002 |
This is a good thing, you know... | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 221 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't know what to believe...I certainly would welcome some more "reasonable" prices for the newer Ferraris...200,000 for a 360 spider seems quite a bit for an 8 cylinder car...but 42 grand for a 512 BBi is cheap... with 11 000 km no less. I'll take one.. hahaha | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1905 Registered: 9-2001 |
Aaron, what do you mean you don't see that happening ? It is happening . Buy the new issue of Sports Car Market magazine. It is full of Ferraris and other sports cars selling in the U.S.A. and elsewhere at todays bargain prices. In fact, it had a 550 Barchetta with 6500 miles that sold for $209,xxx I believe. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 760 Registered: 10-2001 |
Better break out thaose Dino badges, huh Frank? ("Badges??? We don't need no stinkin badges!") | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bring on the mid twenty 328's. I'll take one now. I don't think that's what Robb's hoping for. It would be nice but I don't see that happening. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1903 Registered: 9-2001 |
I received my new issue of SCM yesterday. At a French auction a 1984 BB512i with 11,xxx km sold for only $42,xxx ! It was listed as a "like new" car. In the same auction a TR sold for $36,xxx. I wonder if those prices are headed our way as well. 328s were selling for mid twenties. |