| Author | Message | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 80 Registered: 1-2002 |
Martin, Even if that ebay car is perfect, gray market market cars are worth less, period. A lot of dealers won't buy them no matter what. If you can get me an 89 GTS or GTB in red, balck or silver with less than 10K and 30K done for 55K, I'll take it. I have the money and I'm always looking for a deal.My 89 #79392 is an early 89 made in 11/88. I'm sure some 89's were made in 1989. Dave jones is right, beginning in 88.5 the steering rack, suspension and wheel offset were changed making these cars feel more modern feeling. I spent a lot of miles in my 348 challenge, including the track, and the handling was always edgy though it could be very good. The 308/328 series are more predictable in that regard. Dave Jones, I always think comparing 308/328 is like comparing fine wines. I would give 308's the nod if it weren't for the bumpers. Ken, You shouldn't take anyone's advice as gospel. Try 'em out and decide for yourself. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2001 |
Martin, I have driven both an 88 1/2, and an 89 328. The 88.5 had the updated 348 style suspension, the 89 had that as well as ABS brakes... | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1799 Registered: 5-2001 |
The car on eBay is registered in Jersey. There is a title already so it is easy to get one in lets say FLA. You do not need DOT papers, once the car has been registered. As far as the DOT papers to have the complete history on the car, easy, call up DOT and order them from when the car was brought into the country. I believe there is a sticker somewhere in the driver door that will tell you. Gray Market or not, who cares if the car is mechanically sound. paying over $60,000 today for any 328 is way too high IMO. you can get them for less than that. As far as 1989 328s, there are none, because they made them only till 1988. I know what you mean though, the car was registered in 1989 first time, so in europe it is a 1989 Ferrari. A 7,000 Miles 1989 348 will likely bring $60,000. They average at $50K. A 7,000 328GTS will likely go for $ 55K but average is more like $45,000. I have seen 328 prices drop significantly over the past year, whereas the 348 prices were solid. That just my observation being in the biz. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2001 |
In my humble opinion the 308 looks better than the 328. That's why I have one. Ferrari ownership is not about "Buy the newest model you can afford to get the most Ferrari for your money" It is about having the right Ferrari for You.... My first F-Car was a 79 512BB, the model up from the 308. Newer and more powerfull than the 308, but it just wasn't right for me. I have always liked the styling of the 308. By the way, my 308 sold new for almost 30 grand, and I can still get that for it today. I'd say it's held it's value pretty well The boxer was a 70grand mistake, but you live and learn... Adjust the valves on my front bank? I do All my own work on my cars, I don't have to take them to places like Shelton... Drive them all and pick the one that fits you best... | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 77 Registered: 1-2002 |
What a hornet's nest! For the record, I quoted Sheehan from an article in Sports Car Market and it is from memory so may not be exact, but I remember it from being such a bold prediction. Frank, Where are these 89 328's for 46K? Put me down for 6 nice ones. Also, where are the buyers for 89 348's at 59K? Should be easy to fill those orders. By the way, my 89 328 GTB had an MSRP of 77,800. I paid 62K for mine with 7K miles and 30K just done. That's about 80% of MSRP. Admittedly full retail but dealers would pay 55K for it. I have records of many others selliing in that range. GTS's bring more. The 94 348 TB Challenge I had brought 71K with 900 miles on it in 1998 vs. MSRP about 112. That's about 64% (ouch). And I would argue the factory challenge cars were the best 348's made. Martin, that 328 on ebay is a gray market car with no DOT papers and many other questions. This car is being discussed in another thread here. My 348 was a trouble free car but I know other owners, especially of earlier years who were not so lucky. Performance wise, 348's have more bang for the buck than just about any Ferrari, but performance is usually way down the list of factors in Ferrari prices. Otherwise, Dinos wouldn't be selling for more than boxers. Better yet, take your 50K and buy a new Z06 or M3 and laugh at all the older Ferraris! Bottom line is, Ken gets to hear our opinions but should drive them both and buy what HE likes. Dave | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thanks for all the input guys. I did not mean to start any huge debates between the 328 and 348 crowds.  Martin...as for the $35k 328GTS on eBay - it has no US DOT documentation as far as I can tell (can anybody confirm this?), so that is why it is on the very low end of the price scale. While I feel that the 328 looks better than the 348 (I also like the looks of the 308QV more than that of a 328), I do see the benefits of getting into a newer 348 with more power. But, unfortunately for me, ongoing maintenance costs are a slight factor. Can anybody give me an estimate of yearly routine (and major) maintenance costs for both the 328 and 348? Thanks again for the help. I value the opinions of the experts on here. If I follow the advice of Martin and Frank, I think I will have to change my username to "future348driver". | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 775 Registered: 9-2001 |
The 1989 328GTS had a MSRP of ~$84,000.00 and now sells for ~$46,000.00 which is ~54% of MSRP. A 1989 348TS had a MSRP of ~$98,000.00 and now sells for ~$59,000.00 which is ~60% of MSRP. The Spider is doing even better. The 348 Spider had a MSRP of ~$117,000.00 and now sells for ~$75,000.00 and up which is ~64% of MSRP. As far as ease of maintenance is concerned, the cam belts on my 348 were changed at Shelton for $1800.00 with the engine in by dropping the fuel tank. Try adjusting the valves on the front cylinder bank of a 308/328. While it can be done, it's no easy task. The only reason Ferrari put the lateral engine in the 308/328 seroes was because it was a cheap Fiat design at a time when Ferrrai was near bankruptcy. The longitudinal design of the 348,355 and 360 is the better design as it lowers the center of gravity which improves handling. How much do you want to bet that Ferrari does not use a lateral engine design again. Further, if you want cheap maintenance put a Toyota engine in your 328. It looks like a front wheel drive car under the hood anyway ! Ferrari ownership has never been about how cheap you can get by anyway. As for me, while I liked my 328 when i had it, I'd never go back. Dinos have gotten better from the 246 up to the current 360. Buy the newest model you can afford to get the most Ferrari for your money | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1792 Registered: 5-2001 |
engine wise the car does not suffer, however the long way in on the 348 gives the center of gravity lower than the 328 sideways and thus gives better road handling. There is a 328GTS on eBay with reserve met at $35,000. That appears to be the going number for 328s right now. Given these are not 100point cars. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2002 |
I don't think Michael Sheehan said that 348 prices will soon drop below those of the 328, at least not in this article from his web site: http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0112a.html In fact, the 348 isn't mentioned at all. What he is saying is that all mass-produced Ferrari's will eventually become used cars and prices will fall to current 308 levels. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1791 Registered: 5-2001 |
Last year a 1987 328GTS with 30K-50K Miles was trading for $ 50K, today you can find these cars for $ 35K-$40K if you keep on looking. Last year the 348TS was trading for $ 55K-$60K and today you can buy them for $50K-$55K. Both have not lost much over the last years. A prime 348 will still cost you$60K and a prime 328 will still cost $50K. I bought my 1991 348TS with 22K Miles for $56,000 in 3/2000. The same car today would be worth the same! | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2001 |
Sorry Frank, I have to disagree... The 308/328 series will Not suffer from having the engine sitting sideways. It makes it easy for the do it yourself folks like me to get at things like the alternator, water pump, cam belts, clutch, and so forth. Ever try to change the cam belts on your 348 yourself? "It's called Pull the engine" Boy that's a smart design.... When Ferrari decided to make a race version of the 308, they made the 288GTO and sit the engine the way it should sit..... The 308/328 is a street car, who cares which way the engine sits. I have driven a handful of 348's and I have to say that I liked the 328 much better that the 348. Look at dropping prices, you will see the Testarossa, and the 348 going down faster than the others. While the 328 maintains the respect as being one of the most reliable Ferrari's ever produced. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1788 Registered: 5-2001 |
On the reliability factor I must claim stupidity. I never had a problem with either. The 348 I drove much more since I own that car and for the past 2+ years I am driving my 1991 348 daily (15,000 Miles that I put on the car) this car has not given me any grief. I really do not know where all that is coming from. I have to agree with Frank here. Every year cars are being improved. So a 1991 is better than a 1988. The 328 come from engineering from the 70s where the 348 is coming from engineering from the 80s. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 773 Registered: 9-2001 |
I had a 1986 328GTS and now own a 1994 348 Spider. The 348 is a much better car than the 328 in all ways ! The 348 performs better, sounds better, is more comfortable, is more user friendly and looks better than the 328 IMHO. The only drawback would be that the 348 is more expensive to maintain than the 328..., but not that much more. While I liked my 328 when I had it, I would never go back to it after the 348. As far as Dinos go, they have improved by leaps and bounds from the 246 right through the current 360. Go with the newest car you can afford to get the most car for your money. Mike Sheehan does not know what he's talking about if he said that the 348 prices will soon drop below the prices of 328s, especially the Spider. The 308/328 series will always suffer from having the engine sitting sideways like a front wheel drive car does. When Ferrari decided to make a race version of the 308, they made the 288GTO and sit the engine the way it should sit, north/south ! While the market for the 1989 328 seems strong, the 1986 through 1988 models have almost dropped to the level of a good 308. Drive a 328 and then a 348 and see for yourself. | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2001 |
Martin & Dave, Thanks a lot for the input. The reason that I even considered a 348 was because it seemed to be reasonably priced and is in good shape. I have been primarily looking for a 328GTS but have been unable to find anything that is priced correctly. Everything that I have seen comes in around $50K and I even saw a '87 GTS with 37k miles for $55k. Unfortunately for me, the market is driving what I can afford (along with upkeep costs as well). So, I think I will have to stick with the 328 since I like the look more than that of the 348, plus I have been told that the 328 is more reliable (except for A/C). Still not ready to make the final decision though. But, if Mike Sheehan is correct, maybe 348 prices will drop a bit and I can slide into more power. Thanks again for the input. Martin.....one of these days I will send you a description of what I am looking for particularly. Maybe you can find it fo me | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 76 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ken, I'll take the opposite point of view from Martin. I had a 94 348 TB, sold it and bought a 89 328 GTB (my 2nd. 328). In my mind the only plus on the 348 was more power. The minuses include: crappy shifter, hard ride, motorized seatbelts, wide door sills and marginal electrics and I don't care for the looks. Most mechanics will tell you 328's are more reliable and maintenance is quite a bit cheaper. However, 50K is a really good deal, especially if it has had the timing belt changed. If not, you will need to do that. 91's already had a number of upgrades from 89-90. TB's are better cars and better looking. If your mechanic is real familiar with the car, that's a big plus. For some reason though, 348 TB's often go begging. Mike Sheehan wrote not too long ago that he thought 328's would eventually be worth more than all 348's and TR's. That's a pretty bold statement, maybe he's right. Bottom line is you should drive both cars. Buy the one you like, don't worry about the market. Dave | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1782 Registered: 5-2001 |
that means the 328 is priced too high. I agree the price is fair. If the car checks out good get it. The TB is much better for everyday driving and rain than the TS. Make sure to have the car inspected by a qualified F-mechanic. Good choice to go to the 348 from the 328. YOu will love it. I had both and the 348 is hands down the better car mechanical and comfort wise. Looks is a different thing. That is taste. | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2001 |
While visiting with a local F-car mechanic, he showed me a customers car that is for sale. 1991 348tb, reb/tan, 17k miles, recent service, car is cosmetically very good, engine bay looks good, maintained by reputable mechanic. Did not drive the car. Asking price is $50k which seems good to me as I have looked at 328s where the asking prices have all been within $2k of this 348. Any thoughts? |