| Author | Message | ||
| Wade Nunez(FortuneMotors) (308nut)
Junior Member Username: 308nut Post Number: 171 Registered: 7-2002 |
And also wasen't Dino's last name Ferrari. hello!!!!! is anyone listening. Wade | ||
| Wade Nunez(FortuneMotors) (308nut)
Junior Member Username: 308nut Post Number: 170 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here is more proof Ferrari VIN ZFF Z= COuntry of Origin Italy F= identifies the marque Ferrari F= identifies the manufacturer Ferrari Dino VIN ZDF this was assigned but never used Z= Country of origin Italy D= Identifies the marque Dino F= Manufacturer Ferrari ZDF was never used because Ferrari ceased production of the Dino in 1979 and this system was put into use in 1980 for the US. So if the Dino was produced after 1979 it would have been this. Wade www.fortunemotors.com www.308qvregister.com | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 543 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jay: I agree. When I had a Dino for a number of years, I ran into the same two situations: Whe someone KNEW the car, they never asked; so.........NO PROBLEM!!!!!! When someone DIDN'T KNOW the car, and asked; I stated that it was a Ferrari Dino, and they appreciated the car; so..........NO PROBLEM!!!!! So WHAT is the problem???????? I don't know, and don't care. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1139 Registered: 10-2001 |
Henryk, I don't think that has ever happened. But I usually say that I own a Ferrari Dino, which it is. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2002 |
"If you do not know, you do not deserve to know" OR "Its a Dino" OR "•••• off!"  Pete | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 542 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jay; Then what do you tell ALL those people, that ask, and don't know? | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1137 Registered: 10-2001 |
BTW, I'm in the process of removing all of the Ferrari badging and replacing it with "Dino" badges. I don't need to proclaim to everyone that it is a FErrari, those who know will know. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1135 Registered: 10-2001 |
This is simple. Is Acura a Honda? Lexus a Toyota? Infiniti a Nissan? Of course they are, and the same holds true for the "Dino" brand, whether it be a 246 or a 308GT4 they are both Ferraris. Ferrari made the GT4 engine "in house" and is the same one that powers the 308 GTB/S's of the time. My GT4's engine says Ferrari on it. The 246 was comissioned by Ferrari not by Fiat. They are Ferraris, just as much as an Acura is a Honda. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1337 Registered: 2-2001 |
In 20 or 30 years, try showing up at a FCA concours, or Pebble Beach, or Amelia Island or another recognized concours with a Dino badge on a 355 or 360 and see how well you do. Ernesto | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1947 Registered: 9-2001 |
DES, that's enough to convince me. I stand corrected. If it comes out of Italy and someone sticks a badge on it that says Ferrari, then by george its a Ferrari. Period. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2755 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ok, like the wise man that i am, i've sat back in silence and watched this debate, not uttering a word. It seems that, although a conclusion is close, there is some trouble reaching it. Let this wise man help you... ...what you all seem to be overlooking... is HOT WHEELS...! Who is more of an authority on Ferraris than Hot Wheels...? i just picked up a 1:18 Ferrari Dino on Sunday and it read just that, on the box: Ferrari Dino (246 GTS). Forget the car magazines, FNA, the "experts"- Hot Wheels is the one to trust. Now if you'll excuse me, i have 'meaning-of-life' questions to answer... | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1946 Registered: 9-2001 |
JRV, John Apen did write a book on Ferarri maintenace back in the 70s. But, it included the old V12 carb cars only. He does have a 365GT4BB that of course has the briefcase type tool kit. He says that he can not recall when the switch was made to the tool roll type kits altough he does know that there was a change made at some point. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1118 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>he did rebadge ALL the Dinos that came into FAF during that period.<< Did he write a book on the subject? and what's his take on the tool kits? | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 376 Registered: 4-2002 |
Let me ask one question: When a part is needed for a 246, do you call the Dino part supplier, or the Ferrari parts supplier? What does this indicate is the correct answer to the parentage of the Dino? | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 770 Registered: 10-2001 |
No argument there. A concours 246 should not have any Ferrari badges. Not relevent to my point however that if I bought a 246 in 1972, I'd be pretty pissed then or today if people started telling me it wasn't a Ferrari. Badges?? I don't need no stinkin badges! It's still a Ferrari Dino. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1945 Registered: 9-2001 |
Try showing up at a FCA concours, or Pebble Beach, or Amelia Island or another recognized concours with a Ferrari badge on a 206, 246 or 308GT4 and see how well you do. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 769 Registered: 10-2001 |
Frank, I wanted to make the point that the contemporary car magazines had the 'impression' that the 246 was indeed a Ferrari; not that they were any end all authority. In the case of the 246 Dinos (and more so the GT4's), it seems *perception* is what we're really discussing. The perception when these cars were new is that they were Ferraris no matter what we think today. My summation hit this point home: contempoary buyers of the 246 would have been thinking they were buying a Ferrari model called a 246 Dino, not a Fiat or a 'Dino' brand. Only later did the question of weather these cars were indeed 'Ferraris' become seriously questioned. If I had bought a 246 new, I would have been thinking I bought a Ferrari and I would today still insist that's what I bought. If I bought a 246 today, I might have thought I was buying a Dino brand until I read the articles I quoted and gave it further thought. That being said, I would not badge a 246 Ferrari, nor would I pry the name and horsie off if it was already on it. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1942 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ken, do you really believe everything you read in car magazines ? Ernesto, he did rebadge ALL the Dinos that came into FAF during that period. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2002 |
Okay this is getting even more silly. No manufacturer makes 100% of their car, even Toyota does not make the following: Tyres. Wheels (especially mags, sub'ed out). Suspension joints. Steering rack. CV joints. Radiators. Radios. Oil. Petrol . Bolts and nuts. Paint. Glass (in many cases, sub'ed out). Exhaust (in many cases, sub'ed out). Alternator. Air conditioning pump. Water and other fluid hoses. Hose clips. Electric components such as window motors, and fuel pumps. Brake components (many cases, sub'ed out). Air bags. ABS systems. Thus does this mean that a Toyota is not a Toyota? No ofcourse not, no company makes something if they can get it made cheaper by somebody else ... just plain crazy. As for Alfredino designing the v6 engine, er, there has been more recent rumours stating that Jano had a large envolvement as he was still hanging around the Ferrari factory then (late 1950's) ... and this makes much more sense. I also believe we are talking about the engine for the F1 race cars that Hawthorn and Peter Collins raced in the 2.5 litre F1 ... this was around '55 to '59 (?). The 246 Dino road engine bears little resemblence to the F1 race engine (Before anybody jumps on me the F1 engine is all alloy and has gear driven cams I believe and the road engine has timing chains) thus the name Dino was a bit like the Testarossa and Mondeal names, ie. reborn to market a product. In the Dino case it makes alot of sense as they are all 6 cylinders ... as Steve stated. So in the end who did design the Dino road car engines? ... who cares, whether it was FIAT or Ferrari it was probably Lampredi or somebody else who jumped between all the Italian companies. Remember Lampredi designed the humble 4 cylinder twin cam FIAT engine and also designed the big v12 Ferrari engines ... thus does this make a FIAT 124 a Ferrari , er, I think not. The 206 and 246 Dinos are an absolute master piece that is in many peoples opinion the best ever Ferrari ... and at the time probably the best balanced ... thus if it is not a Ferrari, FIAT built a car prettier and better than Ferrari could manage in many peoples eyes. I have also watched one race a Daytona (casually) and the Daytona did not get away ... so they are not slow and useless on a race track up against other current vehicles. Pete | ||
| steve kotler (Akydakyx)
New member Username: Akydakyx Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2002 |
as a dino owner i have to weigh in on this. i have a dino fiat spider 2400 or is it fiat dino? thanks to the poster who said all dinos(fiat included) should be recognized. unlike the 2.0 dino fiats, dino fiat 2.4 spiders and coupes were assembled at ferrari's maranello factory. just like the 246, the engines came from fiat, the bodies came complete from the manufacturer(pininfarina, bertone or scaglietti) and it was put together in maranello. all the research i have read indicates that all dino roadcar engines, 2.0 and 2.4, were built by fiat; alfredino ferrari(1932-1956)really didn't have much, if anything, to do with the development of this particular engine, but dino's work did center on v6, therefore all ferrari v6 are named dino engines in his memory; all dinos were to be marketed as a separate marque, but fiat couldn't contain themselves from putting fiat badges on their cars in order to gain some sort of prestige for fiat; and early dino wheels were cast fiat(they won a design award for the wheel)but later where cast dino b/c dino buyers objected (sounds like a precursor to the 308gt4 rebadge campaign . oh, and to answer the orignal question. 206 and 246 are really great looking cars. there's nothing else like it. but i understand if you feel otherwise. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 250 Registered: 9-2001 |
My feeling on the subject is the same as stated in the article in the May issue of Forza an article on the ASA 1000 "We are all familiar with the story of the Dino. It was an instant hit, a car so seductive in appearance, specification and driving pleasure that it would have won almost as many hearts without any Ferrari connection at all. Of course, anyone who paid attention knew it was a Ferrari in the ways that counted, and they didn't need to have the Dino badges appended by overzealous but misguided owners to tell them so." | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 713 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank really knows that guy? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1332 Registered: 2-2001 |
DAMMIT! Don't you understand that Frank knows the guy who rebadged all the Dinos that came into the USA? That fact, and that fact alone, if proof enough! Ernesto | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 765 Registered: 10-2001 |
Okay, it's been done to death. But I did a little reading and felt compelled to post evidence that maybe we should call the 246 Dino a Ferrari after all. First, I offer Motor Trend issue April 1974. They do a road test of mid engined sports cars and the entire Dino blurb calls it a Ferrari. Plus, page 86 cleary shows the 'Ferrari' name on the rear of the car. Who put this on? The dealer Motor Trend borrowed the car from? It's called "Ferrari's Dino" throughout the article. They conclude the review with "Then again, the Dino is a Ferrari and the name alone is worth $1000 on the price of any car." Granted a Motor Trend reviewer is not the last word, but it's an interesting comment that points to a specific state of mind: The Dino is a Ferrari. Second I call the Road & Track Road Test Annul For 1973 issue. It clearly states that their Dino has no Ferrari name or badging on it. Yet they call it "Ferrari's junior car" and say quite clearly that Fiat produced the engine originally but Ferrari did the assembly. They tell how the 246 was promoted by Ferrari at the 1967 Turin show as a prototype and again at the 1969 Geneva show in an updated version. Clearly it was under the Ferrari umbrella. At the end of the article, R&T states, "Ferrari name or no, the Dino is a Ferrari..." So, at the time it was produced, the reviewers of at least two major (US) magazines considered the Dino a Ferrari and one even had one badged as such. It's interesting to think that people who would have read these reviews and went out and bought a Dino 246 would have surely told everyone they bought a Ferrari. Were they misled? Deluded? What would one of those people say today if they read the learned opinions of Frank and perhaps myself who both say the 246 is NOT a Ferrari? They'd either laugh in our faces, or feel they were cheated. (No disrespect that a Dino marque would make it a lesser car, but the power of the Ferrari name to the general public cannot be denied.) So I'm doing a 180. I say now the 246 Dino is a Ferrari. It's hard to admit I was wrong in the first place, but I find my mind is now changed. Frank? |