| Author | Message | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 758 Registered: 5-2001 |
Best advice for the rims: Stay away from the 80-83 metric that Ferrari used when under contract with Michelin or you'll play hell finding great tires that fit. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 235 Registered: 5-2002 |
Or that the qv cars had roof mounted spoilers and the earlier cars didn't. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nobody mentioned the diffrent tires/rims yet?! | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1153 Registered: 10-2001 |
Another good book is Original Ferrari V8. Relatively cheap and lots of pictures and descriptions of the various changes throughout the series. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3077 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes Tommy | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 262 Registered: 11-2001 |
Despite actual HP ratings, whether at the wheel or not, I have the 8-1/2"x 11" flyer/spec sheets put out by FNA for the US 308s. I have one for the '77 and '79. Both say 235hp. I have one for the '82 "i" that says 205hp. The QV one says 230hp (note that it has been published in several places that the 230hp QV is faster than a 235 carb because of a weight reduction that occured with the '80 "i"). The 328 brochure and flier says 260hp. Now I'm not disputing anything anyone else said here. That's just what the FNA fliers say. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 756 Registered: 5-2001 |
So that means your 308 is up to about 250 hp stock? | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3071 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy, Yes. example 255 at the crank means about 210 @ the wheel. There is a 10-20% loss in the trans. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 754 Registered: 5-2001 |
I don't know how these dyno #'s work. Is that 208 at the wheels meaning you've got more up top? | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3069 Registered: 8-2002 |
David, My car Dyno'd in Nov @ 208 hp. it's a unmodified 78 308 carb Matt | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 798 Registered: 12-2001 |
Matthew: Go to a big bookstore and buy(or order online) a copy of Batchelor's Ferrari Buyer's Guide. It is not the most in-depth, and the photos aren't the greatest, but it is probably the best simple overview of most all F car models, production and some one-offs, with rudimentary specs, and pithy commentary. It, to me, serves as the best basic index to the different models for the newcomer. After that, there are any number of other books you can read or buy that have more history, better photography, more depth on specific models or eras, or just offer different points of view. For those, do a search on recommended books. Most of the inprint and some of the out of print have been discussed several times on this forum. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1147 Registered: 10-2001 |
Peter, that's the first time I heard that about the GT4. I knew that's what it ment for the 275's and 365's but I never made the connection on the 8 cylinder engines. BTW I agree, get a carbed car. The injected 2V's (that are stock) are fun, but don't have that punch or that sound! | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 532 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hans, My 78 308 carb car made 178 or 179 hp at the wheels which was corrected to around 214 hp at the crank. You are right, 78-79 USA carb cars were only rated for 205 hp, and I have yet to seen one exceed that rating (actually, most are way down on power, but for other reasons, like distributor advancers not working). There are a LOT of stuff that is different on a 78-79 USA car and pulling the cats is not going to make much difference (unless they are plugged). | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2592 Registered: 12-2000 |
Jay: "...Now 308 GT4 stands for the same 3.0 liter engine V8 but the GT4 stands for the 4 seats". Actually, the "4" stands for camshafts. As you note the DOHC cars built in that same time-frame all had "4"'s in the titles (275 GTB/4, 365 GTB/4, 365 GTC/4, 365 GT4 2+2, 365 GT4 BB, etc...). | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 741 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hans - I should have been more specific. I was referring to the 2V INJECTED cars from 1980-1982 only, not the carbed cars from 1975-1979 | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 961 Registered: 4-2002 |
Oops! Re: Horsepower comment below. I should have mentioned that these were non-cat cars. Altho I think Dave Handa's former car got near 200rwhp with a 'test pipe' and some careful carb rejetting. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 960 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dr. Tommy: We know that's not right, as a US spec carb car in good tune will do 200hp AT THE WHEEL. Several of us here - me included - have the dyno slips to prove it. Everybody has their favorite figure for driveline losses, but this puts engine hp at around 240-250. (The shop that I went to uses 18% for rear engine cars.) | ||
| Anthony A. (Yank05)
Junior Member Username: Yank05 Post Number: 137 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hans is right. Drive an early carb car ('76-'77). Then drive a '78-'79. You will be able to differentiate. HP decreased when cats were added - cams changed also. Most books do not make a distinction between the carb models - they just lump them all under the 240hp (for U.S. cars) number. Anthony | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 279 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hutch: You have mail. Ken | ||
| DHutchison (Hutch308)
Junior Member Username: Hutch308 Post Number: 234 Registered: 1-2002 |
Yeah Ken - Autosport sold my 308 to European Autowerks in Edison, NJ. EA has it for sale on the Dupont reg website. So she is out of my hands. I've already lined up the '91 TR that Autosport has, and the deal is done. Just have to get off my lazy arse and pick it up. Maybe this weekend, as the weather is supposed to be 55+ and sunny!! How's your QV? Ready for some drives + get togethers? Looking forward to seeing you on the road soon!! - Hutch | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 278 Registered: 2-2002 |
Did you sell your 308 yet? Email me as to several high quailty TR's that are for sale and priced right. Ken | ||
| DHutchison (Hutch308)
Junior Member Username: Hutch308 Post Number: 233 Registered: 1-2002 |
Steven - I like those rims!! And the euro front chin spoiler is always a cool touch!! My 308 had the euro front spoiler, but she was only an '82 2 valver, and not a QV. Still loved the experience anyway. Enjoy your new toy!! Hutch | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Junior Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 242 Registered: 4-2002 |
Nika, Shame on you, that's no excuse :-) The 308 arrived here in late January and already racked up over 700 miles on her since then. Even in this NH mountain area, let her rip :-) Sorry and all my friend, the choice of diving her is yours. Now GET OUT AND DRIVE :-) Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 736 Registered: 5-2001 |
Several years ago I was told by a guy at FAF that the factory published HP on the 2V's were a bit optimistic. The real numbers were more like 185-190 for the US cars. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 849 Registered: 12-2001 |
Can someone PLEASE explain why MY 308 is not here!!! oh yes.....it's WINTER (wipes away tear) ...and will it EVER end?????? | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Junior Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 241 Registered: 4-2002 |
Nika, Agreed, espcially if it is a very late SN Euro :-) Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin  | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 662 Registered: 11-2001 |
NIKA...right on!!  | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1144 Registered: 10-2001 |
 | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 957 Registered: 4-2002 |
Re: carb horsepower. My owner's manual states 240. I *think* (and I've been trying to research this as much as possible) that the early Euro cars were rated 255, which may have been a little optimistic. When brought to the US, they were equipped with smog pumps and 'thermal reactor' (sort of a primitive cat converter, only w/o the catalyst!). This seemingly reduced the hp to 240. It stayed 240 until 1976 or so, but this is a little vague. When the cat converter cars came out, the hp went to 205. The cats weren't the only change, however, as the cams changed a few times as well. (There is a very recent thread about this.) Apparently the early 240hp US cars had the same cams as the 255hp Euro cars. The distinguishing feature, according to "Original V8" is whether it has twin or single distributors. PS: Godfather - neat pink elephant. Where do you get this stuff? Will I find a bloody pink elephant trunk in my bed in the morning? | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 847 Registered: 12-2001 |
Keep your carbs.......wear brown pants if you go for a drive in Mister bumblebee......... NOTHING beats a 85 QV | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 508 Registered: 2-2002 |
Re: Carbureted 308's All carbureted Euro GTB's had dry sump, but no GTS's or GT/4's. Australian, North American cars and all other later models (GTSi, GTBi, GTSi QV, etc.) had wet sump. US-spec carb cars had two distributrors, and in most cases two sets of points per distributor. Euro carb cars have one distributor and one set of points, before chassis 23561 GTB and 23265 GTS . After those chassis numbers (early 1979 production), the euro models benefitted from electronic coils that used hall-effect sensors. Approximately 700 early GTB's (1975 to mid-1977) had fiberglass bodies, but all other models have steel bodies. Even then, a 1979 euro GTB is 252 lbs lighter than a US-spec GTB of the same year. I suspect the weight differences are the same in the later models. Euro carb 308's did, in fact, have one tail pipe. Of the carb 308's, the fiberglass GTBs are the fastest and lightest. The US-spec steel bodied cars are the slowest and heaviest. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1143 Registered: 10-2001 |
It all depends what was in the parts bin that day. My early 75 US GT4 has the euro air box. I've compared my car with one only a few numbers away and there are definately differences. For example I have aluminum rear hubs while his are steel. Some of my bolts were originally "gold" while his were "silver" | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 228 Registered: 5-2002 |
I was thinking that there are also diffrent ways to tell the euro models from the U.S.in outward appearance. The diffrence in bumpers and the round front fender turn signals of euro cars compared to the square or rectangular of u.s. Also the side mirrors are square for u.s. models and more rounded for euro but I believe the earlier u.s. models had the rounded mirrors too then there is the louvers on the rear bonnet man it goes on and on!..........Also the speedos some to 80 some to 180 o.k. I gotta stop now. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1142 Registered: 10-2001 |
Doc, I'm Italian not British! | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 735 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks for spelling spider with the "i", Jay. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 734 Registered: 5-2001 |
I believe the same thing applies to the 82 cars and the 2V/4V thing although I have never seen a 4V with 1982 on the door jam yet. I'm still looking. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1140 Registered: 10-2001 |
Matthew, with regards to the 512 and TestaRossa, yes, basically the same car but newer. Most of the older cars can be disected using the numbers. For example a 308 is a 3.0 Liter V8, the 328 is a 3.2 Liter V8, a 348 is 3.4 liter V8. Where it changes is the 355, which stands for 3.5 liter with 5 valves per cylinder. GTB is for Grand Turismo Berlineta (hard top) and GTS is for spider (targa or full convertible). Now 308 GT4 stands for the same 3.0 liter engine V8 but the GT4 stands for the 4 seats. Once you start thinking Italian it gets easier | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1164 Registered: 12-2001 |
If you realy want to get picky, you could get a carbed 308 in 80, it was the transition year to FI so you could get either. Also Matty, we've been here before, 255 is euro drysump HP. Not US spec. Us spec "I believe" is 240, then 230 and finally 205 injected. | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
New member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thank you all for the replies and the information. Now can someone explain the 512 and the testarossa. Are they the same car but the 512 is the more current one? Thanks | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 730 Registered: 5-2001 |
If you really want to split hairs; the "i" was dropped officially on the QV cars. All the QV's were injected so there was no reason to distinguish it that way, unlike the 2V's which were both carbed and inj. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 447 Registered: 11-2001 |
http://ferrari308.com/docs/FerrariNA/Automobili/Models/308/Menu.html I've read that the late carb cars are also choked down to 205 HP | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 226 Registered: 5-2002 |
AAAAAHHHHHH. Getting some practice in for St. Patty's day! | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3043 Registered: 8-2002 |
Robert, I have always seen the offical HP for the carb cars as 255. Hans has been hitting the sause again.  | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 225 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hans maybe you could explain the 240-255 h.p.spread in the carb. cars. In diffrent books I have I have seen diffrent h.p. ratings for what seem to be the same model year cars and from the same origin. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 224 Registered: 5-2002 |
The guy posted his question at 5:39 and nobody answered him for over an hour and a half. I answer him and two minutes later I am being corrected.... HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO One other thing Matthew they weren't all red either. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3037 Registered: 8-2002 |
"The European carb models had a dry sump and quad exhaust pipes" Correction, Dry sump on the early cars and Euro's had one tail pipe. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 955 Registered: 4-2002 |
What? No mention of the other 308? 74-79 308GT4. All had carbs, BTW. 240-255 hp for the early ones, 205 for the later ones. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2002 |
Keep in mind that there are two versions also. European and U.S. The European carb models had a dry sump and quad exhaust pipes. The HP figure is for the European model. Expect the U.S. one to be less. Amen, nothing beats the carbs. The sound and the performance. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3035 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nothing beat the Carbs | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 223 Registered: 5-2002 |
O.K. here it goes: 75-79 you had the 308gtb and gts. The gtb is the coupe while the gts has a removable top. The 75-79 models were carburated with 4 webers. I have seen h.p. no's for these cars listed at 255. 1980-1982 had the 308gtsi and 308 gtbi. These are the first years of fuel injection hence the I at the end of the model letters. These cars are the lowest in horsepower of the run of the 308's and that is usually reflected in selling prices. I have seen these listed at 205 h.p. 1983-1985 had the 308gtsiQv and 308gtbiQv In 83 Ferrari came out with the 4 valve per cylinder engine and carried that engine through till 85.QV stands for quattrovalvole. I have seen this engine listed as 230hp. A lot of people consider the QV the best out of the 3 diffrent engine styles because it has been called the most reliable and is close in performance to the early carb. models. You will find everyone has there own opinions over which one was best but you have to agree that none of them are a bad choice! | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
New member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2003 |
I know very little about the 308. Were all 308's carbureted? I have seen 308 QV and other letters after the 308, what do all those mean? Thanks in advance. |