| Author | Message | ||
| David Burch (Merlyn)
New member Username: Merlyn Post Number: 47 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have a 1965 Merlyn MK6a Sports racer and a 1970 Brabham BT29 Formula B car for sale. Both active in CSRG/HMSA vintage racing. Contact me if interested. | ||
| Craig Sutherland (Craigh)
New member Username: Craigh Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2003 |
I do have some photos, however, I am in the process of buying a new computer so it may be awhile until I get them scanned. Bob really did have some neat neat cars and some very special Ferrari's, infact he did get to speak with Ferrari himself, on the MM in '86. Bob was in his 290MM at the time. Nothing major really, just some passing conservation about the car, and when it won the MM in '56 I believe. If there are any questions you guys have about the cars, I have lots and lots of his literature on the old cars. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Junior Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 206 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hey, Bill. My familiarity is with March 77 Atlantic tub, and 78 F2 tub. I also spent some time in a 79 March Atlantic (the fakey ground effect tub!) All this, of course, is 24 years ago! You can email me at [email protected] should you want to! | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 401 Registered: 11-2002 |
Is legal, change cage design/construction (no big deal, done it), throttle restrictors (no big deal, possible tuning changes to optimize), DOT tires. Get a copy of the General Competition Rules (GCR) and Showroom Stock / Touring Preparation Specifications from www.scca.org. You also are required to have all factory documentation to prove legality (factory work shop manual, technical update bulletins, Challenge series specifications/ rules). I've done this for 355 Challenge in T1, no big deal.
Legal too. F355 has run, 360 is legal, be the first!? Contact me directly for more information, or ask by starting a new thread. Best regards, Rob | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 819 Registered: 3-2002 |
these guys usually have some interesting cars http://www.carclassic.com/ | ||
| Bill Gammon (Bill_gammon)
Junior Member Username: Bill_gammon Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey, EFWUN (and apologies to others, but I couldn't find an email in his profile) I saw your words about March tubs. Are you familiar with 79V-8 ? I know zero about March but a friend now owns this car and is planning on running it soon. I am just curious. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1246 Registered: 8-2002 |
Craig, feel welcome to pop in and out whenever you want. Your uncle owned some truly special cars. I'm sure you have a lot of great stories to tell. Any photos? | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 673 Registered: 8-2001 |
http://www.motorclassiccorp.com/ 868 North Broadway White Plains, NY 914-997-9133 Ask for Nick Soprano, tell them Kenny in the yellow BMW sent you  | ||
| Craig Sutherland (Craigh)
New member Username: Craigh Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2003 |
No, I do not live in Co, however you are thinking of my father, who is Craig as well or my Uncle (bob) you will have to forgive my popping in and out, I work alot and do not get an opportunity to chat much. I do find this to be a great site to visit with what appears to be many many kind and car loving folk. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
New member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2003 |
Great summary Will-Just remember it is easier and quicker to get into Vintage Racing than to get out. After owning my Formula Atlantic, the ownership costs associated with my Ferrari pale in comparison. Sometimes it takes along time to sell the car. It took me 18 months. E-mail me if you have further questions. The real plus is the great race tracks you can say you have raced on. How many people can say they raced against Briam Redmond? Good Luck and enjoy!! | ||
| will h (Willh)
New member Username: Willh Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2003 |
This has been unbelievably helpful, thanks again to all. After reading your comments, and talking to others, my take is: - I need to wade slowly into vintage racing, taking my time to find the right car/venue by attending events, doing more homework - Can't believe I'd missed all the suggested sites, Fantasy Junction, Vintage Motorsport, New England Classics, etc - Disappointed to learn the 360 Challenge may not be legal in T1 - very interested in a 355 Challenge in T1, though; have read the comments in the SCCA Forums about competing v Vipers, etc, but it might be interesting doing the testing/development - surely others have tried? - Wonder where else the 360/355s can run - didn't see any in Speed World Challenge - Not really interested in trying to convert a street 360 to race in T1 - did the street to track conversion once with a 911, would have been better off just buying a SuperCup, or something someone else had fully sorted Terrific forum, put it on the toolbar for quickest access. Next time I start a thread I'll even try to proofread the subject line ... regards, Will | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 400 Registered: 11-2002 |
RobL, SCCA homologated the specs last year. 360 Challenge is legal when you install a SCCA legal cage. I did the same for the 355 Challenge, we had two cages and had to swap depending if we did T1 SCCA or Ferrari Challenge. SCCA doesn't like the specific design of the bolted joints and the material in the down tubes rearward is too small. The SCCA legal cage will be beefier and heavier. Throttle restrictor plates at each butterfly is stated in the Touring preparation rules. You buy it, I can build it | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1245 Registered: 8-2002 |
"My family has owned every type of Vintage Ferrari, with the exception of the 250 GT and GTO all though believe it or not, in the late seventies we were offered to buy the GT for 20K and the GTO for 22K." Craig, you didn't think you could just pop in here, post a statement like that, and then pop out, did you? More info please! Let's see, no info in your profile. "Craig Sutherland?" You wouldn't happen to live in Colorado, would you? | ||
| Craig Sutherland (Craigh)
New member Username: Craigh Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2003 |
If you are a serious buyer for a good vintage Ferrari, don't leave your checkbook! The best way is to get in contact with me, my family has owned every type of Vintage Ferrari, with the exception of the 250 GT and GTO all though believe it or not, in the late seventies we were offered to buy the GT for 20K and the GTO for 22K Craig | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Junior Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 188 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks, David. With regard to James Glickenhaus' post, I agree with the assessment of danger to "gentleman" racers. Time has not made "gentlemen" of the cars; early racers are no safer now than they were when they were killing a litany of drivers 30 and 40 years ago. Having survived what at the time seemed an all-too brief stint as a professional in single seaters, I look back now in horror at some of the things I did, and some of the vehicles I did them in! Particularly with regard to HGP, and cars like Mr. Glickenhaus' P4 and MK IV, these are REAL racecars, and they're every bit as willing to bite you as they were when they were current!! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4057 Registered: 12-2000 |
Here's I think the info I was going off for the 360 Challenge in T1, this was the January Fastrack. There may have been a ruling after this that I don't know about. It appears it says, 360 Challenge not legal for T1, 360 is, and 355 Challenge not for T2. I guess it's possible to interpret this as 360 Challenge not legal with orginal cage, but with SCCA cage it would be. However, there's nothing that really indicates anything one way or another.  | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
New member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2003 |
BTW, Steve Jenning in California did all of our motor work. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
New member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes it had the original March tub number 77B-23. Bobby Atkins here in Indianapolis completely restored the car and maintained it thru my racing experience. I sold the car to Dean Tank out of Chicago over 4 years ago. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Junior Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2003 |
Just a quick question for David S. What was the chassis number on your March?? Did it still have the factory plate on the front of the tub over the footbox? Just curious. Lots of those cars were re-tubbed by Jon Norman and Dan Marvin in Ca. I had intimate relations with several of those tubs when new!! | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
New member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2003 |
Here is a link for Vintage Race Cars.http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/f70s.htm I sold my Formula Atlantic 1977 March/Cosworth thru this site. In the last couple of years the Vintage Sport has become very agressive. They all have the 13/13 rule. If you have contact (your fault) with another, You're done for the weekend and another accident during the 13 months your're out. However some racers with alot of money seem to cause accidents (agressive driving) and still avoid the rules for probation. Attending Vintage Races and getting your name out for car interest will do more good as cars seem to trade owners by word of mouth. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4055 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yes, I saw the proposal by Rick?, but 360 Challenge was turned down for T1 and 355 Challenge for T2 after SCCA review because they thought it would be too competitive for those classes. I'll try to find the FastTrack. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 398 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rob, the 360 Challenge is legal in T1 for SCCA. Got pushed by my former boss last year. I'd love to get involved with a development program for this project. SCCA mandates a throttle restrictor and DOT legal tires. Must change the cage design as we had to with 355 Challenge. SCCA doesn't recognize the low FIA spec for the cages. No big deal to build up a car for this class. No one has stepped up yet though. Rob | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 244 Registered: 5-2002 |
Will, check out www.newenglandclassics.com | ||
| Bill Gammon (Bill_gammon)
Junior Member Username: Bill_gammon Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2002 |
After 5 years traveling to many Vintage racing events I have learned that it is a strange group to try to get involved in. The best cars will sell within the group usually long before they would ever get a chance to be advertised. It can also be tough to get any respect on the track, but sadly, money does bring lots of gracious treatment. I suggest SVRA or HSR type events to see the cars in action and start talking to people. There is an SVRA event at Roebling Road in 2 weeks (April 3 weekend). There will be a plethora of stuff there. I will be there, though I am not an expert you should seek out. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 823 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rob "Gentlemen racers" sometimes do more than swap paint. The Gentleman before me at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 02 killed himself, a marshal and removed the leg of another marshall. He also destroyed a one of a kind Lotus 4 wheel drive FI. Several multi million dollar cars have been destroyed at Vintage Events and several drivers have been killed. Bob Akin was driving a Vintage Car when he had his fatal testing accident. Some of these cars are very fast and a lot more fragile than you'd imagine. Best Jim | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4053 Registered: 12-2000 |
The 360 Challenge isn't legal in T1, but hopefully it will in a few years as Vipers and Z06's have been adding 10 HP a year at least. The 355 Challenge is legal, but outclassed in T1, you can take a street 360 and just prepare to Touring rules, but no one has done that yet. If you don't mind being a "gentleman" racer, then I think vintage racing is great, especially because you can be around such great cars. The historic challenge gets cars out there like the 250 GTO and TR. If I had a huge budget and didn't want to trade paint I would probably do this in something like a 250 SWB, still compete against the GTO and TR's too!, but for a fraction of the price. If you want to club race, bang bumpers, and don't want to spend the 7 digits that historic racing requires, I would do a 308 in SCCA GT-2. You can get a fiberglass GTO body so it looks good and is easy to fix. Here's a picture of a GT-2 308. Just don't show up at the FCA annual meet with it...  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 822 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wayne For similar reasons that Enzo stopped going to the races I stopped racing in anger. Best Jim | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1239 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, will do, but don't hold your breath. Jim, we might have talked about this before but, have you considered trying to run the P4 in the Historic Challenge series when it's completed? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1145 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>JRV, I assume you're talking about the Ferrari-powered Alba "AR-" Imsa series cars? I've never seen one for sale... ever. Hmmmm.<< Yep Wayne...that's the ones...I've never seen one 4sale either...only been watching out of the corner of my eye though... Don't even recall any articles or info of any type now that I'm thinking about it...maybe there is, I just missed it...I'd love to get my hands on a rebuilder though... Do you know of any old barns that haven't been looked in ;-)? If you run across some info let me know. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 821 Registered: 10-2002 |
The Ferrari owners site has some good info on the Historic Challenge. Wine Country Classic May 30 805 686 9292 HSR 310 530 9731 VSCDA 616 949 8281 CSRG 925 736 2823 SVRA 404 298 3323 Vintage Motorsport www.vintagemotorsport.com Victory Lane www.victorylane.com www.LECIRCUIT.com VARA 1800 280 8272 Best Jim | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1238 Registered: 8-2002 |
Will, if you have a narrower idea of what you want as far as period and type and have an idea what you want to spend, it'll be a lot easier. For now, I'd agree with Lou. Look through some of the periodicals out there to at least get a better idea of what you want. Vintage competition Ferraris are not difficult to find, but they are very pricey compared to many cars that are a lot more competitive. JRV, I assume you're talking about the Ferrari-powered Alba "AR-" Imsa series cars? I've never seen one for sale... ever. Hmmmm. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 128 Registered: 4-2001 |
The obvious choices are Hemmings and Vintage Racing magazines like Vintage Racing and Victory Lane. | ||
| Bill Steele (Glassman)
Junior Member Username: Glassman Post Number: 178 Registered: 4-2002 |
Try Fantacy Junction in San Francisco | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1143 Registered: 11-2002 |
I want an 80's ALBA Ferrari or Porsche. One of those would really be a kick-ass ride. Maybe Wayne has a line on those or could dig up some scoop, what do you think Wayne? | ||
| will h (Willh)
New member Username: Willh Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2003 |
Re-reading my post, I think I put too much emphasis on the Challenge cars, probably because I'd love to have one. By "vintage," I mean legal in whatever series the 70s and earlier cars are now campaigned - obviously, I have a lot to learn. And I would consider an open cockpit car, but probably not a formula car. | ||
| will h (Willh)
New member Username: Willh Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2003 |
"Will, what are you looking for, exactly?" Fair question, hard to answer. I've been racing formula cars and sports racers in SCCA and elsewhere for some time. I've been toying with the idea of getting back to sedans - I once raced Porsches. Love Ferraris, and have looked at a few available venues, Ferrari Challenge, historics, perhaps even a 360 Challenge in SCCA T1, where I'm told it's legal. This week I'm going to take a look at a couple year old, never raced 360 Challenge. I need to sort out how "professional," for lack of a better word, and competitive I want the experience to be, and at times feel that I might enjoy a more relaxed approach than I've been taking. Also feel, without much to back it up, that my wife and I would enjoy vintage events, as we both love cars. To finally answer your question, I'm trying to see what sort of vintage competition Ferraris can be had, and at roughly what cost to acquire and maintain. Thanks to all who have responded thus far; unfortunately, I have spent all my racing $$ window shopping the Symbolic Motors site. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1236 Registered: 8-2002 |
Will, what are you looking for, exactly? | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Junior Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 180 Registered: 2-2003 |
Depends on the car. Cars International in the U.K. has some nice stuff. Sometimes the society themselves can point you in the right direction, e.g., Historic Grand Prix, a lovely lady by the name of Rebecca. For sports cars, I'd inquire of the competition committee. Several guys on here are knowledgable, e.g., James Glickenhaus and LW Ausbrooks. They will probably set you straight. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3119 Registered: 8-2002 |
http://www.symbolicmotors.com | ||
| will h (Willh)
New member Username: Willh Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2003 |
I would appreciate any suggestions as to where to find vintage competition cars, especially Ferraris, offered for sale. Thanks. |