| Author | Message | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 150 Registered: 12-2002 |
Pete, hang out with Dave, another FCA member with 348 spider. He said he will not get another cabriolet, because: * wind noise * slower performance due to increase in weight * not enough chance to drive open cab So he will definitely get the coupe next time. I did not regret at all trading my 996 cab for 550  Thanks to all you guys for interesting discussion | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 305 Registered: 11-2002 |
Willis, Yes I do realise that you can put a hard top on, etc. and thus it is turned into a coupe. BUT a hard top is never as rigid as a real coupe, even if you had to bolt it on ... thus the chassis will flex more than a F50 designed as a coupe, hence why the race F50 GT is a coupe. If total performance is the very top of your list then you make a coupe due to rigidity and aerodynamics. If you do not have to worry about getting in and out, and doors you make an open car like the Audi Le Mans car and thus the chassis can be VERY deep and thus very rigid, even without a roof ... plus you have a much smaller frontal area as there is NO big screen, etc. Thus I have previous always been confused why Ferrari built the F50 (the supposeably ultimate performance Ferrari) and made it with a targa type top ... thus compromising one of the first rules in making a performance car. Same with a F308/328/348/355 and 360, if you want to go racing seriously you race the 308 GTB, not the GTS. GTS will be heavier in race trim due to roof extras for the targa (unless you cut that out, I guess) and never, ever as rigid. Pete | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 750 Registered: 10-2001 |
here's a pic of the F50 in barchetta config with the little soft top on.  | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 749 Registered: 10-2001 |
Dr Shelbee , the F50 is both a Coupe and a Barchetta . Once you put the hard top on ( as seen on that blue one ) you need to remove the roll up . And you also have a soft top that you can use in case you left home without the hard top. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Intermediate Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 1072 Registered: 1-2001 |
Agree with Willis it is both, the hardtop is removable. -Ben | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 148 Registered: 12-2002 |
  There are two for sale out there, coupe and cab Anyone?? | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1184 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hmmm...you guys DO know that the F50 is both a open car and a closed hardtop coupe, right? From reading the conversation, it would seems that you see the F50 only as a open car. | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 146 Registered: 12-2002 |
PSK, Definitely not 550 barchetta if I get the spider. 360 spider will be nice just for the weekend short drive fun with F1 transmission. But I will get Enzo instead of F50 if there is still out there with MSRP. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 303 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dr Shelbee, Yes I would love to have that sort of problem I have been thinking hard about the F50 and think I have worked out what Ferrari were trying to do. I believe they were trying to give the driver a road car that felt like an F1 car, ie. engine as stressed member, open roof, blah blah ... thus with the roof they were not totally focused on maximum performance but the driving experience. And I guess that F50 owners would say they met that goal ... if I am right. I do hope that you do not own one and have taken any offense to my comments and questions, just discussing things ... I did check your profile and an F50 was not listed, but other nice looking Ferraris. Pete | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 144 Registered: 12-2002 |
Pete, one of these days, It will be very tough decision to make, to choose between taking delivery on paying MSRP for Enzo ($660k) or paying cash for F50 convertible ($750k) What a lucky guy to take a delivery on Enzo. Check it out the site "Enzo's Photo - Fresh off the truck" Shelbee | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 293 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dr. Shelbee, Yes, regarding the F50 convertible ... I could never understand why this car does not have a roof, and find it amusing that the 3 x F50 GTs built actually for racing (although not allowed to compete) DO have roofs. Thus again what is the road version F50 for?, and why would you want to have the roof off at near 200mph? This ambiguity in the design of the F50 is why it does not appeal to everybody and IMO to the real racers. Now if the car was designed so you could replace the windscreen with little defectors like a open Le Mans sportscar and you could remove the passengers safety hump ... then you would have one serious performance machine that would have way less frontal area for the track and make sense. Call me narrow minded, and yes the F50 is full of wiz bang technology, and all, but I cannot understand why they built a convertible that can go so fast and have all that performance ... when nobody wants to go that fast without a roof, unless you have a helmet on. Maserati caused this sort of confusion and miss-marketing with the Bora. They produced a mid-engined car that could do around 170mph (when the Boxer was its competitor) and they spent ages during design making it very refined. Thus when people drove these cars they did not get the awesome performance they expected but instead a very refined car ... what happened, car was not the fastest and thus they struggled out of the dealerships. Okay the F50 did not have that trouble, but in 20 years time it will be interesting to see how it stacks up with the F40 (which is still considered a legend) and the Enzo. In the end, you only have three types of transport to ME: 1. Performance is everything. 2. Looks is everything ... convertibles fit in here. 3. Practicality is everything ... people movers, etc. Where does the F50 fit? Pete | ||
| TAKO (Tako)
Junior Member Username: Tako Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2002 |
I found Euro Barchetta with 2000 miles for 167k in Japan.... drooling. | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 141 Registered: 12-2002 |
PSK, I know you don't like a convertible, but I really don't mind owning F50 convertible | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 140 Registered: 12-2002 |
Has the barchetta's price dropped? Not bad for this one as a collector car http://ferrari.millermotorcars.com/preowned/index.cfm?sFuse=ALT&iVehID=185&CFID=472633&CFTOKEN=40495794 | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 281 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yep, have seen Enzo at Sydney motor show, and yes would love to drive one ... but not my favourite Ferrari looks wise!! I think a black one would look better. Do not like the side window treatment and lack of raw excitement ... found myself drooling at a F40 for longer And yes you are right about not judging a car to you see it in person, but the 250 LM, GTO and MANY, MANY other Ferraris do not suffer that problem . I used to be a design draughtsman so I find that I do not need to see things in person to get the view that I expect ... same with the Ducati 999, which looked okay in photos and still okay in person ... But in fairness I will remove myself from this subject until I am fortunate (or not) to see a Bachetta in person ... Pete | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 702 Registered: 8-2001 |
How can you judge a car you've never seen in person? In person, even the Cayenne is decent! What did you think of the Enzo in pictures? Have you seen it in person yet- its awesome! | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 280 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kenny, Interesting, but I am not a convertible fan ... just don't get it. I like: F40 288 GTO 275 GTB 250 SWB 250 GTO 365 GT/4 2+2 ... original car was nice and sharp 246 Dino 250 LM P3/4 365 GTB/4 250 California ... nice looking convertible. 375 MM 250 Lusso Early 365BB 550 Coupe 360 6 speed via gears Alfa Romeo GTV ... 105 series Alfa Romeo 8c2300b ... just beautiful Alfa Romeo T33 ... v8 or flat 12 Alfa Romeo 156/166 Alfa Romeo TZ's TVR Tuscan ... good looking car. Maserati Bora Maserati Ghibli ... coupe or convertible are beautiful ... far better looking than the 550 Bachetta. Maserati Quatroporto (sp?) ... late model Maserati AG6-2000 Jensen Interceptor BMW 3200CSL Coupe Early Porsche 911 2.2 Ford gt40 Ford Escort Mk1 BDA Ford Lotus Cortina Mk1 Lotus Elan and I could go on ... No doubt the car (550 bachetta) is fantastic to drive, etc. and I have never seen one in the flesh, but I really do not like the windscreen pillar treatment ... and for the cost of one of those I would want a FULL convertible, without the strange looking lumps behind the seats ... Porsches look laughable with those lumps too, so why does Ferrari think it will get away with it. I doubt if there is one in Australia for my opinion to be changed by ... I'm sure from the driving seat it looks fan-bloody-tastic Pete | ||
| TAKO (Tako)
Junior Member Username: Tako Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2002 |
I really think Barchetta is a piece of art. I PERSONALLY prefer barchetta to Maranello. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 700 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bad taste gene? Are we talking about the 550 Barchetta? I know its your opinion, but many many people consider the Barchetta to be the most beautiful Ferrari in the past 25 years, or at least since the 288GTO. Out of curiosity, what do you like? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 820 Registered: 12-2001 |
Oh, well, Psk, i guess you won't be getting a ride. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 279 Registered: 11-2002 |
Les, It is just my opinion, but the lines of the 275GTB require the roof to work. The soft top is very short and abrupt (all though miles better than this 550 bachetta thingy) and does not work ... looks okay with the roof down, but again IMO not as good as the coupe by a LONG way. Again we all have different opinions and I am still envious of your car ... , but definately NOT envious of anybody that has the bad taste gene in big enough doses to buy a 550 bachetta ... no wonder they cannot sell them. Pete | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 816 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hardtops for 275GTS's are not all that common; with the lid on, it looks like a 250pf coupe, not a bad thing in my estimation. | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
Junior Member Username: Labcars Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2003 |
Psk, as the proud owner of a 275GTS, I'm wondering why you think it's ungainly with the top up? It is proportionally quite attractive and, more importantly, incredibly easy to use. The 550 B does nothing for me, with or without a top (I'll keep my 550 coupe forever), but the 275GTS is still a stunner after nearly 40 years! IMHO | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 866 Registered: 3-2002 |
thx for the pics andrew. well that settles it, i no longer need to dream about someday owning the 550 barchetta, unless i move to the desert somewhere. the soft top is ugly, and looks as impractical as whart described, but the hardtop (even the better red one) is just fugly beyond belief (almost looks french). the reason i started this thread was that i found this car on the internet and it looks kind of distressed (read cheap), and i thought i could live with the top thing but fugedaboudit ! if anybody else is not deterred here is the link http://www.ferrarisrus.com/adverts/profile.asp?id=437 | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 276 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oops, sorry to say this but with the top up this car would make my top 10 ugliest cars list ... gosh they are just discusting. Even the 275GTS is better looking with the hood up. And that hardtop well I do not want to hurt anybodies feelings so will leave it at that ... Pete | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 526 Registered: 3-2002 |
Stradale versions of all with convertable hardtops I say... | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ross, The 360 top is definitely good for 70+ mph. Not the same thing as the Barchetta at all. Pretty cool the way it opens and closes too. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 327 Registered: 2-2001 |
Re: Hardtop. Clunky, IMO. Appears the Barbie hoops may be too tall to allow for a properly proportioned shape. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 729 Registered: 10-2001 |
Barchetta with the Bespoke built hard top , made n germany and available for ONLY 18 000 euros     | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 728 Registered: 10-2001 |
Barchetta with the Top on :      | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 727 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ferrari should launch a Barchetta Stradale so that if it rains , theres nothing inside to be damaged by the rain ! The barchetta is one of the most gorgeous Ferrari from the past 20 years ! | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 309 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hmmm.... I had one for a month and didn't find it that hard to put the top back on. I agree with the continuous fear of scratiching the paint though! Ton | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 860 Registered: 3-2002 |
thx ben. somebody else in that thread said that even the 360 top isn't good for more than 70mph - is this true? whart, am surprised you haven't found somebody to make you a more user friendly soft top that could actually be used. | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 74 Registered: 2-2002 |
I heard a story about someone who was looking at a Barchetta at a dealer and asked the salesman if he could see it with the top removed. The salesman said no, as he was not sure they'd be able to get it back on. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Intermediate Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 1063 Registered: 1-2001 |
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/18/1874.html?1028037775 sorry no shot of it from the rear, it drops hard and (relatively) flat at the back. There was a similiar (possibly the same) one at the Ferrari Challenge Races 2 weeks ago sitting in the paddock with the top up, sorry it looks like I didn't snap any pics of it, others who went may have. HTH -Ben | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 814 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hey, guys: the soft top's ugliness is not what puts me off. I am, however going to invite Ton Visser to my house to show me how to "easily" install it, because, even with the dealer's assistance, we had such trouble getting the thing aligned and snapped in that we were afraid that we might scratch the paint. The thing itself is small and fits into a junior golf bag, where it stays. By the time i could fit it in a rainstorm, i'd be drenched. The aftermarket hardtop, is to my eyes, not only ugly, but impractical. Yeah, i could keep it on for weekend trips away, could drive to my destination with the "hardtop" on, remove and store it there,while driving topless at my destination, only to reinstall it on the trip home, but that would sort of defeat the purpose of the open car, particularly since more than half the fun is getting there, right? (Unlike the earlier MB's and now the porsches, which had the hardtop and a ragtop.) I don't really need a motorized top, but a decent ragtop would be cool. | ||
| Dirk de Jager (Dj_dirk)
New member Username: Dj_dirk Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ross here is a shot when they are taking the soft top of: http://users.pandora.be/dirk_ferrari/Nurburgring212.jpg and i've also seen at least 2 different versions of the hardtop | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 858 Registered: 3-2002 |
thx dirk. hard to get a good view of the soft top from that pic. will look for another one. but oh my god is that hard top fugly ! | ||
| Dirk de Jager (Dj_dirk)
New member Username: Dj_dirk Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2002 |
softtop: http://www.ferrariforum.net/gallery/view.php?photo_id=273&screen=0&action=search&keyword=barchetta hardtop: http://www.ferrariphoto.net/Images/550%20barchetta/550%2003.jpg | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 857 Registered: 3-2002 |
ok, so what we need is whart to give us pics of it and real-life experience. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 856 Registered: 10-2002 |
Someone is selling a carbon fiber roof that doesn't look too bad and is rated to 200+ for only 20M. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3051 Registered: 9-2001 |
sorry, I should clarify I was told there was a soft top but it was not worth much in terms of speed and weatherproofing as others have noted | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 306 Registered: 12-2002 |
The soft top is extremely ugly when placed on the car. I guess that is because pininfarina wanted it absolutely to be without it. You can indeed put the top in the trunk and it is easy to install/remove. On the inside of the top there is a sign saying that it is only guaranteed to 120 km/hr which is approx. 75 miles/hr. Ton | ||
| Dirk de Jager (Dj_dirk)
New member Username: Dj_dirk Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2002 |
there's a soft top that comes with the car and that you can put in the trunk of the car. According to Ferrari it is only meant to be put in in case it starts raining and that you can get home. The hard tops aren't from Ferrari, but are build by a german, and well, either you leave it at home or you put it on, and keep it on | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3049 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am sure Whart will chime in but he has told me that he has to double check the weather before taking his on weekend trips, I don't think the top can be carried with it, it is either on or left at home, and even on it probably leaks | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 856 Registered: 3-2002 |
this is primarily aimed at whart, since he has one. in a recent thread the lament was that this car did not have year round useage in most parts of the world. but doesn't it come with a top of some kind that is good to about 70mph? i think i saw one on last summer, and although its kind of ungainly, it would keep the rain off wouldn't it? any comments on this from owners? |