| Author | Message | ||
| Bart McMurry (Mcmurb)
New member Username: Mcmurb Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2002 |
My experience is like Arnaldo's. Have found my TR ownership costs to be comparable to the 308. For me, I have found a relationship between use and mechanical problems with both my cars. In other words, when I drive them often (like daily drivers) they have been bullet proof. When they sit for protracted periods, both have had problems creep in. I would recommend that either choice is mechanically fine for a daily driver. I would also tell you that there are several "daily" places that I cannot take the TR to (ex. parking garages with steep ramps, parking areas where the slots are narrow, roads with speed bumps, etc). All of these problems relate to the dimensions of the TR (77.8 inches wide, low ground clearance). Also the clutch is heavy on the TR so if traffic is a daily occurance, consider it. These are the "daily" factors that are in my world and that's why I have the 308 (soon to be 355). I don't own a 348 nor have I driven one, but dimensions closer to a 3 series f-car will make your daily experience more enjoyable. That said, Saturdays and Sundays are for TRs! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 471 Registered: 2-2001 |
I also would like to hear about those higher maintenance costs for the TR. I have owned mine for almost two years now and can say that besides the little pricier oil filters, and the 12 quarts of oil it takes every 3 K mi., everything else seems to be about average as compared to my other cars. I drive mine at least 2 to 3 days a week, put between 200 to 300 mi. per week, and average about 15 to 16 mpg. What do the other TR owners mpg looks like? I have never owned an eight cylinder Ferrari, but when compared to my other cars, the TR regular maintenance does not seem that much more. By the way, getting the engine out for the major is a convenience, not a necessity. The entire job can be done with the engine in the car. I can't comment on the reliability of the 348, but the TR is rock solid! City driving is not much fun due to the heavy steering and clutch. Twisties are a dream, but I suppose that's true for most Ferraris. Keeping it under the speed limit is also hard to do. Acceleration of the TR is one of the most special sensations in the industry, even when compared to faster, quicker cars. Once you floor that pedal, prepare yourself for a sensory overload. Sounds, sight, tact, are all relaying to your brain what a Ferrari is all about. I have driven C4, C5, 996s, others, and I am yet to get the speed sensation and richness of the TR. Good luck on your search! | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 390 Registered: 1-2002 |
I dont know guys the 8 cylinders behind my head move me pretty good. Each engine has a very unique sound and I think the 8 sound is just as beautiful as a 12. I will keep my 348 forever as it was my first Ferrari but next up is a 12 for sure. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2002 |
I've also noticed that the 348 owners whom I've gotten to know eventually sell the car and move on to the next model (mainly 355s) in their list. The Testarossa owners I know tend to keep their cars and go for the next one, also 355s interestingly enough. 348s are great starter Ferraris, but won't stirr the kind of emotions 12 expolsions behind your head will. | ||
| Jeffrey Caspar (Jcaspar1)
Junior Member Username: Jcaspar1 Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2002 |
No question. For looks, sound and power, get the TR. A classic and a V (180 degree) 12. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Intermediate Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 1064 Registered: 1-2001 |
Ken, c'mon over. -Ben | ||
| David C. (Worth_it)
Junior Member Username: Worth_it Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2002 |
I will try to make my .02 brief - I was in your exact place last October - I knew my first F-car was going to be a TR - drove some beautiful examples and found the car to be everything an exotic "performance" car should be. Then I drove an early (90-91) 348. Was impressed with the handling and overall personality of the car. Then I came to F-chat and learned as much as I could. The issues of how the car will be driven, where, number of miles, service needs, possibility of further depreciation etc.. all were investigated. My decision - later model 348 - my case Spider. Everyone is different but I found the TR to be oversized and the cabin was like a cocoon. For a daily driver comfort would be non-existent. Long hauls a different story. The 348's reputation for problems was straightened out as the years went on. Including Bosch 2.7, exhaust, wider rear track, etc.. It all depends on how you "run" - ( Football runningback analogy coming ) 300 pound 6'4" up the middle or 200 lb 5'10" side to side Both styles will get you there. Opps !!! I said I would be brief, sorry. Good luck and make sure you buy one. You will not regret it. | ||
| Schumi (Schumi)
Junior Member Username: Schumi Post Number: 98 Registered: 6-2002 |
I too am contemplating a move to a TR and am concerned about the maintenance costs. If someone could elaborate I would appreciate it. I currently have a 400i 5 speed. Could it possibly cost more to own a TR? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ferrari of SF in Mill Valley has a nice F512M, which is the pinnacle of the late testarossa line. I know I'm going to get beat up over this, but I've found the 348's ride to be far from confidence inspiring. The chassis felt a little rubbery/wooden. The brakes, as far as feel, were not really that good either. I can't speak for the challenge cars, but I've driven about four 348s with the same results. In my opinion the 308/328s drive better. Keep in mind that in a test drive you won't be able to cane the car around. The 348 is very civil, but once you push it, a lot of it's flaws present themselves. I think it was Luca who said that the 348 was a Ferrari "mistake". If you do get a 348 go with the Challenge cars. I've heard these are quite different, but have had no first hand experience. The flat 12 is awesome. Once you get in and drive it you'll spoil yourself and the 348 will drop out of the picture. There are significant differences between the Testarossa, 512TR, and the 512M. Afford the best you can. The price increases are well worth it. Performance and lighter weight gets exponentially better as you go up the ranks. The cool thing abou the 348 is that it comes in "al fresco" motoring trim. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 291 Registered: 9-2001 |
I just did a search for 91-93 Ferraris in the San Francisco area and came up with 2 348s at the below dealer. I do not have any affiliation. Cammisa Motorcar Co. (www.cammisacars.com) 1020 Carolan Ave Burlingame, California 94010 Good Luck. | ||
| Ken Ghiringhelli (Kenny94945)
New member Username: Kenny94945 Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hello, please keep any insights coming. I am honored by the excellent advise being offered. William H has a good point..drivability and so does Terry Dogue.. drive both. This would be my first Ferrari coming from driving new Corvettes from 1993 to current. My driving is mostly short hops and commute. 12 cylinder vs. 8 cylinder...jess I'd love a 12. I read between the lines that the 12 may require some deep pockets to operate. Please any elaboration is welcome on that point. I do have a concern about maintenance costs. Modifications....headers, intake and probably wheels and tires. Concourse is cool..but I like function over form and to drive. So, how's the clutch compare in both these cars to those who have had the pleasure of driving/ owning both. Is one easier on the knee than the other? Would some agree at resale the Testarossa may hold it value a little better? At Ferrari SF and Ferrari (Bentley) Los Gatos there are no 348 or TRs on the lots (I was at both within the last seven days). So lastly, here in the SF Bay Area, does anyone wish to offer a test drive (or a test fit of my size to the interior) and any for sale I should consider? | ||
| David J. Smith (Darkhorse512)
Junior Member Username: Darkhorse512 Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2002 |
I haven't driven a 348. But having driven a TR I would tell you to think "big". Everything about the car is big. The gears, the engine, the engine orchestra, wheelbase, rear end, steering effort, part sourcing effort, attention factor, the smile on your face, fuel consumption and maintenance costs. The '91 TR certainly benefits in build quality as it represents 7 model years of production (Or 3.5 years of no new elements). Think TR vs. 348 as a simple question of fast vs. quick. | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 288 Registered: 7-2002 |
Suspected list fire to follow............  | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 287 Registered: 7-2002 |
Ken, My guess is that you'll be delighted with either. You can always buy one and then if you get the fever, try the other. Many Ferraristis have had several cars. I've been blessed to have owned both a 308 and a 348. On several occasions I've driven a TR. Love them both and agree with the points made by the group. It'd be cool to have a turbo charged 348; big power, (bigger than the TR), and very "tossable". BTW- A word about modifications. It's YOUR car. If you want to change anything, do so after YOU feel the due dilligence is complete, or leave it stock. The choice is yours. Be advised that the resale value MAY suffer. Unless you are super concerned about resale, (I'm not), then mod it however you want, unless of course, you're more concerned about collecting cute little trophies then you are about DRIVING! Best of luck and keep us all posted. | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 535 Registered: 5-2002 |
I must correct myself before the hounds are sent out... Tr's does have a flat 12 and not a V12 Sorry..Same rules still apply.. | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 532 Registered: 5-2002 |
V12 or V8 is what it should come down to.. A Ferrari, is a Ferrari. All make a statement.. The question is do you want the high maintance cost of a V12 as a daily driver.. If that is not an issue, The TR is the way to go..If cost is an issue, then you will atleast be rewarded with the howl of the V8 engine | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 387 Registered: 1-2002 |
I would take the 348 but then again I am biased since I own one! I had the chance to drive a TR around Chicago when looking for cars and it was hell on earth downtown, but very nice once out on the Dan Ryan. The 348 is much more well mannered as far as visability outwards, being able to judge exactly how wide the car is, and doesnt leave the forearms hurting as bad after parallel parking. Driving in San Fran to me was worse than Chicago so I would say the 348 if you are looking for a daily that will cooperate with you. However if your "daily" drive is twice a week to the office and the rest of the time kicking ass down out in the mountians or costal highways then either car will be perfect. It all depends on taste you need to drive both cars first, and then pick which on you feel most comfortable with. This step is huge as I found out a lot of the cars I wanted were not made to house a person 6'3" tall...I thought I would fit into a Countach easy but I was damn wrong!! It has to be a personal decision, if you buy based on any of our thoughts you are buying the car for the wrong reason. Go with the one that moves you most, and you will be proud to own. stepping down from the soap box, I am in the same boat with Jens here, why does everyone say the TR is SOOO fast and more powerful. Yes it has more hp but it also weighs a LOT more than the 348. Every auto mag from the early 90's shows the 348 being faster 0-60, 1/4mi, faster around a track, and pulling higher on the skid pad!! To me this isnt sheer domination! But I guess when the story shifts to the 512 version they are faster. Anyway Ken you will be happy no matter what your decision! | ||
| Jens Haller (Jh280774)
Member Username: Jh280774 Post Number: 376 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ken, I agree with most of the people that both cars are great. If you directly compare the TR and the 348 at a racetrack you will see though that the more agile handling of the 348 allows better laptimes although you have 90hp less. Test drivers of Ferrari can also tell you the same: 348 was faster at Fiorano track than the TR. Still the TR is a remarkable car but perhaps more convenient when doing fast driving on highways. I don�t even want to think of maintenance costs when used as daily driver. Hard decision which really is a matter of personal taste... Con saluti cordialissimi, Jens Haller | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 353 Registered: 11-2002 |
They are both great cars but IMHO the 348 is a better looking car. It is also a good daily driver as I am sure the TR is. This is really just a matter of taste isn't it? | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 862 Registered: 3-2002 |
concours aside, these 2 things modernize both cars considerably, both technically and visually. you can always keep the old wheels and tires for the shows, and if you get a black car, theres no paint either..... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2130 Registered: 2-2001 |
for a daily driver I'd take the 348 cus its smaller, easier to park, uses less gas, less maintenance | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1997 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ross, such a modification would not be original and not fare well at an FCA concours. He may be like me and strive to keep his car as original in appearance as possible. So, Ken if this is your first Ferrari and you plan to join and participate in FCA events, which I highly recommend, originality is viewed as the most important attribute of a car. If you want to do a lot of modifications, get a Camaro. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 861 Registered: 3-2002 |
with either car i would also advise doing the following: if the lower spoilers and sides are black, paint them body colored (or get a black car). put 18'' wheels on with wider rubber. | ||
| Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
Junior Member Username: Standig Post Number: 90 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have owed both types. The TR was a slob on gas and very heavy to steer in traffic but a very powerful car. The 348 ts is easier to handle and much better fuel. Both cars are head turners. Happy shopping. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2902 Registered: 8-2002 |
Oh, and one more thing... It would definitely be my daily driver... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2901 Registered: 8-2002 |
If someone put both cars in front of me and said i could have whichever i wanted (but not both), i would definitely go with the red head- and i've always wanted a convertible, but still i'd have to go to with the TR... That's just me though... | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 326 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'd go TR all day long. Styling wise, that car is to the 80's what a '57 Chevy/'59 Caddy are to their era. Although not sure I'd use either as a driver. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1532 Registered: 1-2001 |
Ken -- (Like the London FChatter's comment) I wouldn't want to wrestle a TR around in SF proper. What/Where is your daily drive like (all/no interstate, short or long distance, etc.). Is it your 1st F? I too have to agree that the TR has more potential for $ pain - two 6 cyl. vs one 8 cyl. (not that a 348 is always painless). Both late models of each so they're good choices within their respective classes. JMOs (but I always have a tough time with this FX or FY issue because it depends so much on the buyer's frame of reference/experience). | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 69 Registered: 2-2003 |
I went through the same decision. I just purchased my 348 Speciale......some of the deciding factor's for me.... -348 is a little smaller, more "tossable" -although both can look "dated" I feel the 348 has a slightly more modern look. -I think the 348 interior is much nicer. -for speed and power the TR is going to be much stronger, however, for sheer fun, go with the 348......I LOVE MINE!! | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 282 Registered: 9-2001 |
Both are very different cars. 348s are more toss-able. TRs have more torque and a more impressive presence. Most magazines and buyers guides advise to stay away from 348s, because of poor build quality and several electrical problems. Most owners absolutely love their 348 and say problems are minor and no more than other Ferraris owned. The TR is a heavier GT car, great for long drives at high speed and will get more attention than you know what to do with. Both have to have the engine removed for a belt change, but the TR has 4 more cylinders so it will cost more on tune ups. I think I would go for a TR given the choice a 12 (to me) is always better than a V8. The sound of a TR with a Tubi is just fantastic. I am also not a race car driver and the only track event I would go to is for fun and learning how to control the car, not competition. I have heard great things about the fuel efficiency of the 348. The open air motoring is a plus in the 348 also. Drive both and try to buy the best car you can. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 859 Registered: 3-2002 |
agree with frank. but it also depends on where you will be doing this daily driving. some places are easier than others for the tr (like wide roads, big garages, lots of big parking spots etc.). frankly i wud get the tr, but i am biased. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1995 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have had both a 1994 348 Spider and a 1986 TR. While the 348 was better as a daily driver, the TR was more exciting to drive and is a 12 cylinder. If you don't want a rag top, I would go for the TR although TR ownership can be pricey. | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
Member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 307 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ken, I would think of the 348 as a more practical car. It is also less expensive in maintenance. On the other hand I am sure that there are a few Testarossa owners that will claim that it is also a very reliable daily driver. I think that it is a matter of money and personal taste. Ton | ||
| Ken Ghiringhelli (Kenny94945)
New member Username: Kenny94945 Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hi, May I ask for a vote/ opinions. I have the F Car fever, but can swing the car payment for the 1999 car I truly wish. So, 1993 348TS or 1991 Testarossa, for use as a daily driver, which one is favored by my esteemed co-members? |