| Author |
Message |
David W Burnett Jr (Dbdreams)
New member
Username: Dbdreams
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 12:31 pm: | |
"Caveat Emptor" BUYER BEWARE Any time you buy a car with a salvage title good advice would be to use extreme caution. Even theft revovery cars with hardly any visible defects could be a time bomb. In a stolen car case such as a Ferrari, think about it, If it were you and you felt as is if you had gotten away with it wouldnt you find a lonely road and thrash the car taking it to absolute redline for every gearshift. Maybe even find it hard to resist doing a few dough nuts and then a few more then a couple of burnouts. Sounds like fun to me especially since its stolen and not mine. If a car like this shows up a couple of months later then you can bet it wasn't professionals like in gone in 60 seconds where they imediatley deliver the cars to buyer or person delivering them. Even in a short time a lot of stress can be put on an engine and drivetrain that might not be apparent at the time.
When approaching a normal seller who is as passionate about the cars as you probably are it would be easier to believe that this person has taken every effort to take good care of the car. Now a salvage title car all you have to go on is a "story" Even with documentation and pictures do you think that would ever really be enough to set your mind at ease. I think not, I personally would choose to put my trust in a fellow enthusiast whose motivation for selling would be moving up to another level, already fulfilled the dreams or just needs the money. A salvage car is most likey being sold by someone who just bought to repair it (as cheaply as possible) and in turn a profit. Very different motivations
Now I do feel that price would be a factor but again
"Caveat Emptor" BUYER BEWARE
That being said there may be significant advantages to buying a car like this. If it already has a salvage title, has a significant dicount (IMO 50% or more) but seems to be in a conditon you are comfortable taking the risk on it could be advantageous to buy it. With a salvage title there would be less worry of depreciating the value of the car by getting a door ding at Wal Mart, or running it harder than you would a pristine example on track day.
I guess it is all in what you are looking for and up to each individual and what you may be comfortable with. If you want a car you can "Take home to Mother" I would opt out but if you want one to "Drive hard and abuse a little without guilt" then a salvage car just might be the ticket. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 299
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 6:10 pm: | |
As long as there are before and after
pictures and verification - I wouldn't shy
away from a salvage title.
As Martin and Jeff had stated - deals are out there - a minor damage from being stolen (ie. broken ignition and scratches to paint) can easily be branded as "salvage" - or for this matter, a claim from a damaged front end without
frame damage can be easily be branded also
(note: insurance companies will fight claims - its their job, this actually protects us from higher premiums the less they payout) -
for the comment regarding, why didn't the insurance company fix the car and sell it without the branded title, they are not in that business. |
Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
Junior Member
Username: Threefivefive
Post Number: 102
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 6:04 pm: | |
Jeff,
I think $88K for a car that would be sold by a dealer for around $150K represents a "significant discount," which is probably why it moved. Do you get a chance to do a qualified PPI at these auctions? If not, how does a potential buyer check for frame damage, etc? Bring along a qualified mechanic??
Selling a salvage title '97 355 Spyder for around market price does not, however make sense. I think the guy will really have to reset his expectations if he truly wants to sell the car.
At face value, this car should probably sell at around $50K. Just my $0.02. Obviously material information, like pictures showing damage (as was pointed out earlier) would impact the price.
Regards. |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 193
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 4:51 pm: | |
I have a friend who is a car dealer in mostly classic types. He recently went to Florida for a vacation and hit some auctions. He verified what Arlie says about stolen Ferraris. He's a Vette man but saw a real nice 2001 red 360 that was a theft recovery, no visible damage what-so-ever. He was actually thinking about buying it...but his wife talked him out of it. It sold for.....are you ready......$88,000 bucks! I would consider this myself, as a branded title on a nice car isn't that big of a deal to me. And for that price even with the story, I can't imagine you'd have a hard time selling it for a bit more. |
EFWUN (Efwun)
Junior Member
Username: Efwun
Post Number: 241
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 3:53 pm: | |
I'd say, in this market, a salvage title car is nearly worthless. If you can't figure a stable price on clean, no-stories cars, how can you value a car with a BIG story, e.g., a salvage title? |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 3:18 pm: | |
What doesn't make sense is that there aren't any "as-crunched" photos provided -- I'd want a fairly good record of the damage and the repair along the way (but I'd still agree with Al -- serious deep discount needed both on the buy and the future sell). |
Al LaPeter (Lapeter)
Junior Member
Username: Lapeter
Post Number: 100
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
If you buy a car with salvage title, regardless of the explanation, when you try to sell it later, it is almost impossible to market. I would NEVER buy a salvage title at any price. IMHO |
Sean F (Agracer)
New member
Username: Agracer
Post Number: 38
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 3:03 pm: | |
When the owner signs over the title, it will cleary state on the title that it is a "Salvage Title" versus what you find with a normal car.
That's how you know.
Of course, the owner could have a legitimate title forged, but if you were to take out a loan to purchase the car, the bank would find out when they go to check it, or when you tried to register it in the same state (or another one if you're and out of state buyer) the DMV will discover it's a "salvage title" and issue the title in your name as such. So, he could sell it to you under the guise of a legitimate car, but it wouldn't last longer than it took for you to register the car. |
Randall (Randall)
Junior Member
Username: Randall
Post Number: 147
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 3:01 pm: | |
So it's up to honesty of the seller?
Let's say you bought a car, and the seller outright lied to you, and later you found the car had a salvage title. What would you do? |
Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
Junior Member
Username: Threefivefive
Post Number: 99
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 2:58 pm: | |
Randall, the seller openly acknowledges that it is a salvage title. I assume this is because it is also discernable through CarFax or some other method (note that the insurance company was involved, so there may be a record available), or maybe he is just a really honest guy.
I agree, CarFax doesn't always register a salvage title, but it often does.
Regards. |
Randall (Randall)
Junior Member
Username: Randall
Post Number: 145
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 2:54 pm: | |
How do you know it's a salvage car? I know that CarFax doesn't always have the info, so I was wondering if it said on the title some where? |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 872
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 2:41 pm: | |
The same thing happens to theft recovery Ferraris and other cars. The car is stolen with nothing damaged except a door lock and the ignition. But if the car is not quickly recovered, the insurance company pays off the owner for his loss. If the car is finally found and recovered several months later, it now belongs to the insurance company who now has a history of "paying off" on the "total loss" of the car. So it now therefore has a "salvage" title like any other wrecked car. Not really fair to the car, but you see such cars on E-Bay from time to time.
|
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 4064
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 8:19 am: | |
yellow is so sexy! |
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 4063
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 8:17 am: | |
I was negotiating this car when I was looking. I know you can buy the car today for $ 75K.
The explanation is not bad. This does happen and yes, they do get that branded title.
I actually spoke to the guy that he was referring to, the german fellow that fixed and found the car for him. He stated there was more money spend than that. I came back to the seller and asked him. He sent me the invoices for the car and the invoice to have the car re-approved back for street use that was presented to the DMV. I am sure this is a good buy if you plan on keeping the car. I would have bought this car if I would have not found the red one I own now.
Story definetely checks out by invoices he had provided to me.
Funny, when I talked to the german guy he said, "what he is selling for only that much?" "I would buy it for that" He actually called him right away and said he wanted to car. I assumed since I did not go any further that he did. I guess there is a difference between wanting to buy and actually buying. Besides I thought it was low for him to call behind my back after I told him for how much I have negotiated the deal.
Whoever is in the market for a cheap 355 Spider, this is one! I would not worry about the salvage title if I were looking to keep. |
Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member
Username: Enjoythemusic
Post Number: 271
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 7:07 am: | |
LOL Nick. LOL!!!! |
Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member
Username: Tork1966
Post Number: 558
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 6:55 am: | |
Nick, LOL! My wife and I make frequent reference to that line. |
nickm........ (Nickm)
Junior Member
Username: Nickm
Post Number: 208
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 12:38 am: | |
As I was reading the persons explanation of their "story" , I was just waiting for them to say, "Once.... when I was in band camp".... |
Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
Junior Member
Username: Threefivefive
Post Number: 96
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 12:19 am: | |
Good point. Wasn't planning to buy it, but just curious on the explanation.
BTW, here is the eBay link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2408246498
Regards. |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 208
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 12:18 am: | |
If the first owner won the court case, he justified to the court that the expense of fixing the car was not worth it. Therefore the car was salvaged. All that silliness aside, it's obvious that the car has been in a crash. It's also obvious that the collision was severe enough to merit a court case to add up the fixes.
Run away from it. People who buy salvage cars to fix them up and sell them rarely do a good enough job for the cars to come out well. They try to do the repairs as cheap as possible so they can turn a profit when they sell. If the repair work was done properly it would cost the person repairing the car far more than what the value of the car is.
Not a good choice. |
Ghostrider (Threefivefive)
Junior Member
Username: Threefivefive
Post Number: 94
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 12:01 am: | |
I saw a '97 355 Spider advertised on eBay. In clicking on ad, the seller notes the car has a salvage title. He goes on the provide the following explanation:
"Due to a court hearing it had to be given the title. The first owner, Im the 2nd, took the cars insurance company to court because of the insurance company was trying to blind side him and not ante up what was rightfully his. Well, since he was in the right the insurance company finally gave up ( a year and a half in court ) and gave the 1st owner a new Ferrari. Since it happened this way and was finalized through court the next procedure was to label the title of the old Ferrari as a Salvage title. So as you can see, it was only given this title because of procedure and not because it was actually in " THE CATEGORY " of being totaled. Ok, so after the court case there is a car left that just need a front bumper and was brought to my attention. So since I happen to be man who jumps on great opportunities I did just that on this Ferrari. Instead of paying full price for a new Ferrari I paid several thousands less. Know that this Ferrari is in tip top shape and if it doesnt sell I wont be shedding no tears. I really dont want to sell it anyways to tell you the truth. Good luck bidding!"
I don't think this makes sense, but wanted to check it with you guys. If the insurance company lost the court case, then they should have gone and fixed the bumper, something that would have cost a couple of grand. Why would they go and buy the original claimant a new Ferrari??
And furthermore, for some odd reason if they did, why would this Ferrari be given a salvage title? The insurance company should have possessed it, fixed it and sold it? Does a car get a salvage title if the bumper needs to be repaired?
What do you guys think?
Regards. |