| Author | Message | ||
| Spyder (Spyder)
New member Username: Spyder Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2002 |
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| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 323 Registered: 11-2002 |
Okay Mark the article I read must have been talking about centrifugal compressors ... or they did not get it right  Thanks for the details. I personally would steering away from centrifugal compressors and install a turbo ... or stick with roots/screw type as you have. Pete | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 455 Registered: 5-2002 |
Pete, I think there may be a little confusion on the terms. As I understand it, Lag is the time between the throttle is open and when boost in delivered, it is mainly associated with the time it takes to spool a turbo, but it is also a function of system volume. Boost is a function of compressor flow rate vs. engine flow rate. Both the engine and the compressor have flow@pres. vs rpm curves . If the curves match, boost will be constant across the rpm band, however that just never happens. An engine is a positive displacement pump, so the flattest boost curve will be achieved by using a positive displacement compressor, but there will still be some mismatch. A roots type blower works pretty well up to about 5 psi and will give about 3 � 3.5 psi at idle with 5 psi at redline, pretty good. A screw type compressor gives a similarly flat boost vs rpm curve up to about 15 psi or so. Centrifugal compressors have an exponential flow vs rpm curve instead of linear, so they produce much more mismatch and boost variation. If direct driven, they will yield high boost at redline and no boost below about � redline. Paxton flattens it out some by using a gearless drive that slips at a preset boost, it has the same effect as a wastegate in a turbo system. Generally, the compressor is sized it will be at peak efficiency where the engine is at peak HP. There are exceptions, sometimes a flatter boost curve can be made by shifting the compress efficiency curve to try to line up with the engines volumetric efficiency curve, but you give up HP it exchange for a flatter torque curve. I have also seen a scheme to use a continuously variable tramsmision to drive a centrifugal compressor using manifold pressure to control compress gear ratio, too many parts though IMO. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 318 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mark, That is not entirely true as a supercharger is just a pump (as is a turbo charger) and all pumps have peek operating speeds. I am no expert but I read this in a drag racing technical magazine, plus I am an Mechanical engineer. Thus a supercharger has to get to that correct speed before it is pumping at its best. The advantage a supercharger has over a turbo charger is that atleast it is trying to pump at the low rpms, where a turbo is probably just idling around doing very little until exhaust gas pressure builds up enough to get it really spinning. Thus even an oil pump has peek operational rpms where it pumps the best. Go too slow or too fast and it will not pump as well. I am sure with your supercharger that you got recommended rpms from the manufacturer, so that you could get the reduction ratios right for driving the pump from the engine (?). Anyway looks like a fun project Pete | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3463 Registered: 8-2002 |
Fo shizzle my wizzle keepn up with the dizzle wizzle  | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 454 Registered: 5-2002 |
6 psi is great for that engine, I was thinking 4 is all you'd get. Nice. Is there enough heat to gain anything with an intercooler? That's what I'm curently trying to do to mine, along with a switch from roots type to screw type compressor. It needs some intake work to make it happen though - basically a whole new one. The Intercooler will be wtaer/air mounted right in the intake between the blower and plenum. maybe 6 more weeks.  PSK, the only lag in a supercharged engine is the time to fill the intake track, which can happen very very fast since the compressor is always at operating speed, and particularly when the blower is mounted on the plunum, then the lag time equals the lag of a naturally aspirated engine. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 530 Registered: 11-2001 |
I personally like naturally aspirated power but this one was an inexpensive mod and reliable for everyday use. Imagine adding a couple of them in a Ferrari, very expensive! | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 316 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmmmm, It is a myth that supercharged engines to not suffer from lag. Yes it is no where near as pronounced as a turbo charged engine, but they still do have peek operational conditions. For example a centrifugal supercharger does not work very well at low rpms and has to spin up to provide boost ... hence they used to used a lot on aircraft engines (and may still be ?). Rolls Royce designed a centrifugal supercharger for the 1.5 ltr BRM racing car of the 1950s and this alone is considered the main downfall of the engine as it made the power come on in a very peeky fashion (for the day) as the revs had to be up for the boost to be there. Thus most use a roots type as they work better at lower rpms and do not have a lubrication/heat/sealing problem with the centrifugal blades that restricts the superchargers rpm ... Nice install BTW!, very interesting, and different. Pete | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 528 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mark, it's only running 6lb boost, minimal but decent for a high compression motor running 145hp per liter at the wheels is not bad, it really kicks in and pulls harder at higher rpms above 4k. I may end up putting a smaller pulley to increase boost and change the intake to be forced inducted and that should give it a little more push. The car does 13.4 @ 108mph in a 1/4 mile and should get into the 12's once the extra mods are done to it. Not bad for a daily driven gas saving car. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 452 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sorry, I see it now, very clean installation. They are nice cars, very well thought out. How much boost are you running? With the centrifical, do you get boost in the low end, I guess that would be below say 4000 on that engine? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 527 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mark, it's not turbo charged, it's supercharged so no lag of power and it does well in autocrossing, in high speed I would prefer the Ferrari or Lambo. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 526 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mark, it's not turbo charged, it's supercharged so no lag of power and it does well in autocrossing, in high speed I would prefer the Ferrari or Lambo.  | ||
| Chris D (Prohydro)
Junior Member Username: Prohydro Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2001 |
I was just at McDonalds and saw a Ford Focus (4 door) in the parking lot with a Nissan GT-R badge...must be some special version I've never heard of. Really, if you are going to pretend, at least put the right fake badging on the right car... | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 449 Registered: 5-2002 |
When I was in high school, US steel ruled and it was narrow front tires, then raise the back so the tall, wide tires would fit sticking way out of the fenders, and of course stickers. It made the car handle like a pig, beat the heck out of the front suspension and increase stopping distance....a lot. It was cool though. Nothing's really changed. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2002 |
Patrick, That is our point, many things we see sprouting on cars nowadays are for looks only and thus don't work at all or make the car worse ... ie. slower or handle badly ... but nowadays the young kids are into looking cool and not doing very much. Hence the slack attitude, and lack of motivation of many youngsters ... very sad really. Pete | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2001 |
Will someone please try to explain for me the sudden proliferation of FWD cars with huge rear wings? Shouldn't aftermarket stuff like that at least look as though it COULD be functional instead of detrimental? I asked one local kid about his wing - it dropped his gas mileage by almost 4mpg while not making the car handle any better. He didn't care - he thought it looked cool. I didn't say anything - I thought it made him look ignorant. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 447 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh, autocrossing and turbo don't usually mix well, is it working out for you? I though I was the only one on fchat that "stoops" to autocrossing | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 525 Registered: 11-2001 |
Here's my Rice Car, I use it for random daily commute and autocrossing.  | ||
| Brian Jackett (Brian_jackett)
New member Username: Brian_jackett Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2002 |
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:18 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "All the guys I Know who have Supras are great guys and most of their cars are faster then my F355." Nice to see this coming from, not only a Ferrari owner, but one who races his car instead of cruising down the boulevard and parking it infront of Starbucks to buy a $9 Cappalookatmechino. Nice car Brian....what kind of racing were you doing when that picture was taken? _______________________________________________ Hi, thanks. I was doing Top Speed challenge over 1.2 miles of air strip. I managed 1/4 mile in 13.4 & top speed of 162 mph fastest car was a Supra @183mph but I had a faster 1/4 mile time. Fantastic day here in the UK | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 444 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's one  | ||
| Bart Boonacker (Sharky666)
Junior Member Username: Sharky666 Post Number: 234 Registered: 9-2002 |
Byron, I knew that the NSX-R is the new version but he hasn't got it, neither does he got the update. Just trying to "show-off" (although the "regular" people don't know the difference) I thought the "R" we're talking about was about people trying to show-off with specs they haven't got. Like putting a red "tdi" on a golf while not driving one. | ||
| Brian C Thenhaus (1day)
New member Username: 1day Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2003 |
Those giant exhaust cans, Type R and/or S badges etc on non- type r/s cars, cheap body kits etc. are all rediculous IMO. However, that is just MY OPINION (I own an Acura CL-S btw, so I'm not hating on Japanese autos...I did remove the TypeS badge though). I'm sure the owners of these "ricers" love thier Hondas/Toyotas etc. as much as you love your Ferrari. While I don't care for their respective tastes, I do appreciate the fact that they are car enthusisats and have made their vehicle something unique/special to them. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 587 Registered: 4-2002 |
I can give respect to any of those guys who decide Jap Ricer is better for whatever reason. I can give zero respect to those who stick stupid great exhaust mouths on them, neon lights all over the place and rediculous racewear badges and sunstrips. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 650 Registered: 1-2002 |
Byron- That was all you, man. That line about a stolen Ferrari? Yeah, right.. Matt- I know, and I understand; however, it just seems like everytime I mention Honda I get the same look of "..oh, you're one of THEM..", and then I've got to qualify my ownership choice with: "..oh,no, no, it's not like that...really, it's not.." Damn riceboys. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 300 Registered: 11-2002 |
I put a big "POS" sticker on my donkey-wagon. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 477 Registered: 10-2002 |
"btw. A guy who works on my weekend job has got a NSX from '91, looked cool before he started with it. Now he also put a R on stating it's a '02 NSX." Bart... to be fair to the guy, there IS a 2002 NSX-R in Japan (not the states). Lots of guys with NSX's will update their cars to 2002/3 specs (new fixed headlights, rear tail-lights, etc) - and if done correctly, can look VERY nice. IMO, that doesn't belong in the "R" category... I think we're talking about the politically incorrect shopping cart style cars that aren't fixed up with the best taste in mind... | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 476 Registered: 10-2002 |
Matt... ROFLMAO!!! Hubert... Rice Rice baby! Remember not to screech your tires so much while driving in La Jolla! hahaa... | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3278 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hubert, your car is well prepped and raced with quality parts in it. I think the fun is being poked at the cars that are built for the look from supertuner mag with cheap knock off parts and the car is then inturned raced on public streets by over-confident drivers in under-confident cars. Huge difference. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 649 Registered: 1-2002 |
Guys- Really (and I was going to be all eloquent) blah, blah, blah, blah. Screw it, what's the use. I'm a riceboy. Soy sauce, anyone? Let's see how many F-cars show up to the track, and how many of us "riceboys" show up. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3275 Registered: 8-2002 |
http://www.w3rd.net/rice/itr/ | ||
| Tim G (Timgos)
New member Username: Timgos Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2003 |
You guys are all going to get busted by the Ricecops :D | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 130 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well, so long as it doesn't say "Intel inside", I won't keyboard your... Er, wait a second... | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2002 |
I put a Powered by VTEC sticker on the back of my Porsche and the car got keyed. There are a lot of people with souped up civics in the CA Bay Area. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1167 Registered: 12-2001 |
It wasnt supposed to get tense. It was a joke. As far as the shields go, I dont mind them. Take a pill PJM. Let me guess, you have an 'R' on your corolla. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 282 Registered: 4-2002 |
LOL Martin. Just trying to bring a :-) to people's faces. It was getting a bit tense here. Hey, it is not like i posted a virtually nude photo of me... oh, nevermind LOL Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4108 Registered: 5-2001 |
Steven you are asking for trouble here!  | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 281 Registered: 4-2002 |
 | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 280 Registered: 4-2002 |
All this talk about "R" and shields... only want to put a swinging hips hula girl doll on my 308 rear deck. Is that allowed by the F-Chat Grand Alliance? :-) Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin PS: During Christmas i could do a nice Manger scene. Would try a manorah, but the candles simply will not stay lit going around corners at 100mph :-(  | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 279 Registered: 4-2002 |
. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 644 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hmm. I guess I'm an odd duck; I removed the "aarrrrrrrrrrr's" and "red acura emblems" from a real Integra Type R. | ||
| peter james moran (Pjm)
New member Username: Pjm Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2002 |
Whether you are putting an "R" badge on it, a "SF" badge on the fender or the "Ferrari" badge in your driveway your just making a statement about what you like, dream or enjoy. Who the hell are you (Newman, Louis, some others...) to judge people buy their labels. I'll be hanging my "SF shields" on my 85' 308 QV after this weekend. It may not be a true or a correct statement, but my 308 will be used for track events and in my personal opinion will have earned its shields. Maybe other people just like shields on the fenders. 360s have shields and they are NOT there for some great reason. They are there because: it's a Ferrari, someone in the design department liked the look and it helps sell 360s. Don't be such a snob (jerk) because you can "afford" something or think your use of labels is so much better then theirs. | ||
| Bart Boonacker (Sharky666)
Junior Member Username: Sharky666 Post Number: 233 Registered: 9-2002 |
You beat me to it Steven, had the same thing in mind  btw. A guy who works on my weekend job has got a NSX from '91, looked cool before he started with it. Now he also put a R on stating it's a '02 NSX. But then again, he's also cutting up his shockabsorber (sp?) etc. Sick dude | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 278 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dom, i achieved a 300HP boost... Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin  | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Junior Member Username: Dom Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2002 |
OK, I had to try this, sorry for the sloppy cut and paste... I plan to make up a few of these badges and sell them for $300/each. Guaranteed to add 100 HP at the wheels.  | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 277 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hi, This is funny as went on a first date to meet this gal and her son put the red "R" on her car. Naturally i inquired and, low and behold, it was not truly an "R" car. Felt good to end that date and drive home in my F-car and know it was real... real fun :-) Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin PS: never asked her out for a second date Hmmm... | ||
| Alex Lee (Alxlee)
Junior Member Username: Alxlee Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2002 |
There's a difference though. I laugh at those that put an R badge on cars that aren't type R's. To me that's like someone putting a V12 badge on a 355. | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 751 Registered: 9-2001 |
If you do it, try the have the R in a Ferrari style font. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 518 Registered: 11-2001 |
There's a badge for everyone, Brian, I like the Euro clear bumper lamps. | ||
| Louis Goldstein (Lgoldstein)
New member Username: Lgoldstein Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2002 |
It's funny that you guys laugh at the "Ricers" adding "R"s where they don't belong when I'm constantly laughing at all of you 3X8 and TR owners that add those "SF" shields to your front fenders! | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 397 Registered: 7-2001 |
"All the guys I Know who have Supras are great guys and most of their cars are faster then my F355." Nice to see this coming from, not only a Ferrari owner, but one who races his car instead of cruising down the boulevard and parking it infront of Starbucks to buy a $9 Cappalookatmechino. Nice car Brian....what kind of racing were you doing when that picture was taken? | ||
| Brian Jackett (Brian_jackett)
New member Username: Brian_jackett Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2002 |
This is Ferrari Snobery again. Come on Guys. You have a Ferrari and some people do not. And it is not always because they do not want one. All the guys I Know who have Supras are great guys and most of their cars are faster then my F355. So respect man | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4096 Registered: 5-2001 |
paint a big "S" on the car, so when you drive down the street people will say: Look at that S-car go. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2658 Registered: 6-2001 |
A while back some guy was making those japanese writing stickers. A lot of people thought they looked cool, so they bought them and put them on their car. What they didnt know was that the writing said "piece of ••••" or something like that. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 129 Registered: 9-2001 |
it's be cool to have just a normal looking 'fer' and 'ari' on the sides of your "type R" car. Be sure to get some decals for your name in janapese and put them on your gas cap. Er, i gues you can't on the 308/328's because of that window panel/cover, but on a 355 you could. which kind of gtb is it? | ||
| Brian C Thenhaus (1day)
New member Username: 1day Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2003 |
You know that gives you extra 50hp instantly right? | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 542 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hey Newman, If you car is red the "R" can work... | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 101 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ferrari owners should be better than this. Take the high ground, men. Luke. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 884 Registered: 5-2002 |
In Alabama, as well as Arkansas, R means redneck. (Of course, the multi-color primer paint job usually does a good job of revealing that fact). Of course it could mean REPOed. Or Rusty, Rattley, Rebuilt, Rods knocking, Rings leaking, Rotors worn out, etc. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 289 Registered: 11-2002 |
Heh Newman, Why stop there, why not add this to the back of your car: 3.0 v8-TC-32v-FI And the wholee back of your car will be one long badge ... really impressive Man  How does the saying go: If you have to advertise it, you don't know how to use it ... or something like that! Pete | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1362 Registered: 2-2001 |
r = racing | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 897 Registered: 5-2001 |
What's the R stand for? I haven't seen that yet down here in Alabama. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2002 |
R for Rice? | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1166 Registered: 12-2001 |
What do you think? A big red letter R glued onto my tail panel to join the civic/toyota crowd. Mmmm GTB-R. I really get a kick out of the yoyo's in the 4dr's with one of these on. It seems to be an epidemic. Maybe its just a canadian thing. |