| Author | Message | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2001 |
PSK stole my thunder. There will be no discreet gears in the future; infinitely variable is the way to go. Sicks are like carbs. Cool old technology but fuel injection is better in every way. So would be the infinite variable thing. I'm Mr. Retro though and I love my carbs and stick! | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 446 Registered: 3-2001 |
I've said it countless times before (in past threads), and I'll say it again...... An F1 gearbox is an AUTOMATIC gearbox. If you have no ability to work the machinery, then go with the F1. If you really like to control the machine you are spanking around the track, then a manual gearbox is for you. NO IF'S, AND'S, OR BUT'S! I have raced my 4 different Ferrari's over the last 8 years (I'm at, or right next to, the track record at Lime Rock and Watkins Glen, for the 355 Challenge Car) and if there is anyone who tries to tell me that an F1 gearbox is a manual gearbox.... I'm going to laugh in your face!! Ok...ok, before you all come back at me with 'mechanically speaking...it is a manual gearbox'....I know it is. It's also a VIDEO GAME that ANY no talent can use and feel like he really knows how to work the car. Just my jaded opinion. | ||
| I can't drive 55 (Sparetireless)
New member Username: Sparetireless Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2003 |
I just sold my F1 spider and now looking for a 6 speed. The F1 is very nice but it is not what I wanted after having one. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1187 Registered: 8-2001 |
Keep your foot down. | ||
| Jason Williams (Pristines4)
Junior Member Username: Pristines4 Post Number: 186 Registered: 12-2002 |
OT: But when driving the F1 paddle shifting, is it necessary to take your foot off the gas when shifting, or can you just keep it planted and hit the paddle? | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
Junior Member Username: Labcars Post Number: 60 Registered: 1-2003 |
Agree with most that the F1 is great for track work, but 6speed is better for everyday use. I not only enjoy being able to row through the box, and the sound of the stick clanging into the gate, but HATE the fact that you can't slip the clutch on the F1. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am pretty sure someone "up there" has it in for sticks. Probalby in ten years the only two cars with a manual will be the viper and the vette. ;) Fully automatic is horrible for sports driving: you never know when it's going to shift - and with many cars, when you start giving them gas, there's a slight pause while the car realizes you are going to accelerate, then it downshiftsm and then if you're lucky, you can zoom. Even chosing the 'maximum highest gear' has it's set of issues. For example, whilst driving the 456M GTA around some time back, i dropped it from the '3' to the '2' position. However, I was still going oh, maybe 80 or whatever and it didn't shift it right away. Instead, it decided that it would wait until I was going slow enough that it could make the downshift without overrevving the engine - which was in the entry to a turn. First I wonder how many people here have actually driven a car with f1 xmission. THe only one I have driven was actually not a ferrari marquee, but for practical purposes, was a ferrari. (it was a maserati). I found the shifts to be less interesting and I also took a much bigger note of the pause in acceleration (i.e. non-smoothness) when shifting up. That one sensation: the front of the car starting up high, then diving down huge and then popping it back up again was horrible. Now you can argue that I should have lifted the gas a bit - just like I would likely do in a manual transmission but... hm. I will say that my favorite part of the f1 xmission is that i didnt have to take my hands off the steering wheel. That is truly huge. But not huge enough to give up the fun of a real manual. ;) | ||
| Bob Cowart (Bob_cowart)
New member Username: Bob_cowart Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2003 |
Each to their own. There's room for both and hopefully Ferrari and the other high performance car manufacturers will not eliminate the stick. I've owned both and each has their pros and cons. In either case they need to continue to develop and improve on both shifting mechanisms. Bob | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member Username: Ironjoe Post Number: 155 Registered: 12-2001 |
On the track their awesome,for the street I can only think of V.W .Sportomatic,Mid 70's 911 sportos,a Jealous left foot,the sensation of a condom,Just about there but not real.... | ||
| Kuzman (Kzma)
New member Username: Kzma Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2003 |
For me theres nothing like the clang of metal on metal as I stroke through the gears!! Its almost religious in a way! | ||
| Alon Dahan (Alon)
New member Username: Alon Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2003 |
Luca DI Montezemolo has said that as long as he's in charge manual transmission will always be offered. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 76 Registered: 1-2003 |
Welcome Bob-As you can see quite a few of us came from different sports car experiences. After 15 or so Corvette's (including 3 ZR1's and a ZO6) my decision to turn towards a Ferrari was not easy. But looking back, my 360 has redefined my enjoyment of sports car's. Any Ferrari you ultimately choose will be one of your greatest sports car moments. Again Welcome! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1185 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bob Cowart, Do a search for "F1 transmission" or "F1 vs 6-speed" threads on this site. There's plenty to go through. Welcome to FerrariChat. "F1 vs 6 speed" is not quite right. The gearbox in the F1 is the same as the stickshift version. The F1 is also a 6 speed. | ||
| Bob Cowart (Bob_cowart)
New member Username: Bob_cowart Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hello F enthusiasts. I'm new to the board and have been a Ferrari Fan for more years than I care to share. Someday soon I will own a late model F car, but until then I will continue to educate myself on the pros and cons of the various models. After I've done my homework I'm sure I'll have a few questions for the group. I have not had an opportunity to drive a 360 shod with paddle shifters, but I do own a '02 M3 with SMG. I must say I never thought I would take to a non left foot actuated clutch system. I absolutely love it for both road and track driving. I live in the denver area and do have an opportunity to drive frequently on the neighboring mountain roads. Having traded in an 01 M3 with manual 6 speed for my SMG, I can say for truely spirited driving SMG has some distinctive advantages especially on the track and mountain roads. And if your left leg gets bored learn to left foot brake and witness your driving become even more smooth and efficient. By the way, BMW has honored engine claims that occured on the track. BMW strongly endorses BWWCCA who in turn sponsor track events. They can't very well deny engine problems that occur in events they endorse. Bob | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 291 Registered: 2-2002 |
You will have to remove my gated shifter from my cold dead hands. I will never buy a F1. I will stick with the older cars for this reason alone. Besides, I am really starting to favor the older cars now and have little to no interest in the new cars. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 290 Registered: 9-2002 |
I gotta say this..There is nothing like shifting your own gears!! And there is nothing like hearing a Ferrari with a Tubi exhaust going though a tunnel or under a bridge and hearing the crisp sounds of the driver changing gears. There is nothing better then going hard into a corner and perfectly blipping the throttle and downshifting and having that shifter fall perfectly into gear and all because you the driver did it!! Not some computer. what ever happened to the man and machine being as one? Now it's just computer and the man just sits and moves the steering wheel. Give me my own gears to change!! | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 297 Registered: 11-2002 |
I agree that one of the cool things about Ferraris is the metal shift gate ... take that away and you have lost 25% of the driving experience. BUT eventually MOST cars will have CVTs (Constant variable transmissions) as these will improve economy and performance massively ... as the engine will always be in the perfect zone. The problem with this is it does not suit motoring enthusiasts as the engine sound will suck and the fun of driving will be lost ... but I can see it happening. A driving will be like driving an electric car ... how dull, perfect for Volvos  Lets face it driving is becoming duller every year due to regulations and technology. The 50s and 60s were the peak ... now we are going down high (fun wise) and eventually will be in autmatically controlled people mover vehicles, because the governments will agree that removing control of the vehicle will save lives and reduce road congession, etc. Pete | ||
| Louis Goldstein (Lgoldstein)
New member Username: Lgoldstein Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2002 |
"In my mind an automatic is any tranny that shifts automatically regardless of internal organs and that includes paddle shifts." Dave, I strongly agree with that statement! | ||
| gian maria traversone (Giamma)
New member Username: Giamma Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2002 |
I would really love a sequential gearbox mechanically operated..... like a motorcycle.I do not understand why no GT car have developed such a gearbox... | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 481 Registered: 1-2002 |
In my mind an automatic is any tranny that shifts automatically regardless of internal organs and that includes paddle shifts. Dave | ||
| Jay P. Ross (Eilig)
Junior Member Username: Eilig Post Number: 106 Registered: 8-2001 |
If I were on track full-time, I'd want the F1, no doubt. But I'm not -- I'm on the street. For me, driving the 6-speed on the street is FAR more enjoyable for a number of reasons. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3319 Registered: 2-2001 |
If Ferrari stops making manuals it's time for me to get a Vette. fwiw, BMW and the major manufacturers are giving sticks the axe mostly because of emissions. It has no longer become worth the money in their market to make a stick pass emissions. They can control the button shifting manuals obviously and are much easier to make meet emissions regs because of it. Ferrari though may not be subject to such stringent regulations. I personally don't see Ferrari giving the stick the axe anytime soon, it's kind of like when people bring up that oil is running out... | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 389 Registered: 9-2002 |
If we go to all F1, or even if we dont, what I want is a switch to 7spds like the switch to 6 in the mid 90s. More is better....and a close ratio 6 with a tall 7 is nice. | ||
| Jamil Jamal (Jameel)
Junior Member Username: Jameel Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jim An F1 type shifter like the ones seen on Ferraris and BMWs are true 6 speed manuals. Meaning they have a clutch and a flywheel, what they don�t have is the clutch pedal and the manual shifter (replaced by paddles). So when you click on the paddle (for upshift / downshift) a signal is sent to the ECU which then is sent to a mechanism (I�m guessing it�s a hydraulic unit) which pushes the clutch for you and releases. One of the great things about these systems, coupled with e-gas is they can blip the throttle for you on downshifts. Now, the units on Porsches, Acuras, etc� Have a pseudo manual shifter. Basically it�s an automatic, meaning it's got all the components of an auto transmission (torque converter) but it has added buttons which allows you to "control" when to down/up-shift. But the car is still in control, so if you are revving to redline the car will automatically shift for you. Same when driving to slow it will automatically downshift. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 921 Registered: 11-2001 |
grossly simplified: an automatic-manual is basically just like a stick except that a computer engages the clutch. an automatic tranny has a torque converter that does away with the clutch. Here's an Edmunds article with an overview of how a fully-automatic transmission works: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43836/article.html Here's an Edmunds article on "clutchless manual" trannies, including the new CVT stuff (it specifically explorese Ferrari's F1 stuff as an example): http://www.edmunds.com/news/innovations/articles/46873/article.html doody. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 424 Registered: 4-2002 |
I won't buy a non-stick. I love the involvement. There have been a couple of times that I got home because a driver can drive around things like air in the clutch tubing that a computer could not. It may end up being the same repair bill, but delivery to the service station and arrival back home for the driver are much more convienient with the manual. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 423 Registered: 4-2002 |
I won't buy a non-stick. I love the involvement. There have been a couple of times that I got home because a driver can drive around things like air in the clutch tubing that a computer could not. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 882 Registered: 7-2002 |
what is the diff between a fully auto with buttons and a F1? I understand the diff mechanically between a auto and manual, but the actual driver mechanics of pushing a button or flipping a paddle are the same regardless of what happens behind the sceens. Push button...1st gear...push button 2nd gear...etc | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 919 Registered: 11-2001 |
nope - tiptronic is a full automatic tranny with buttons - just like audi and lexus and everybody else. doody. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1492 Registered: 7-2001 |
Doody, >>porsche appears to have no immediate plans to offer an automatic-manual never mind leave sticks behind.<< Isn't a Tiptronic an automatic-manual? | ||
| Greg V. (512tr17teeth)
Junior Member Username: 512tr17teeth Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2003 |
IMO, I would prefer the old style manual transmissions over the F-1 gearbox, just because I enjoy pushing the clutch pedal, and throwing the stick into gear. Dont get me wrong, the F-1 tranny is certainly nice, but I think it only benefits you on the race-track rather than cruising. Thats just my opinion | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 916 Registered: 11-2001 |
i think this is a fairly inevitable evolution, for better or for worse. like boozy, i hope that the manufacturers consider this with as much verve as their customers do, but the stick isn't long for this world in the vast majority of cars. i believe i read somewhere that bmw is hoping to phase out the stick in favor of SMG eventually. not this year. not next year. but eventually. for 99% of bmw buyers, they'll be giddy about it. hopefully they'll keep some of the M cars with sticks as options. we'll see. benz clearly hates sticks with a vengeance. they'll be (are?) shipping an automatic-manual in the euro SL320. porsche appears to have no immediate plans to offer an automatic-manual never mind leave sticks behind. hopefully the small enthusiast manufacturers like ferrari will continue to offer sticks, but as racerdj points out, 1998 and 1999 355s were apparently ordered with F1 trannies well over half the time, if not close to 75%. imo they're not quite ready yet for general use. ferrari owners will put up with the repairs, etc., but the average beemer owner won't yet. but it'll happen. most folks who drive stick don't really need a clutch pedal. natural evolution, like it or not. very few of us lament 99% of the automotive innovations that have obsoleted well-known technology over the last fifty years. doody. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1364 Registered: 2-2001 |
I wont buy another stick as long as F1 type trannies are available. I find them better is every way... Ernesto | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 586 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'm with Chris R on this one, they can keep em, don't care how smooth they are, may as well be sat in a dumb capsule | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 259 Registered: 11-2001 |
I won't buy another performance car without a stick. If they stop making them I'll have to stay with an older car. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 108 Registered: 3-2002 |
i think these will replace the old manuals in all models not just ferrari. ferrari, bmw, audi, etc already saying improved performance, economy, etc with them. kiss of death was when 360 challenge came with paddles. i for one will miss clutch work and am also afraid of big increase in maintenance $ with these new ones. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 72 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have seen a move to promote the F-1 over the six speeds in recent years. Does anybody in the loop know for certain whether Ferrari will continue to offer six speeds at least in the 8 cylinder models? Looking for a 355 or 360 was complicated by the fewer numbers of six speeds manufactured. |