| Author | Message | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 943 Registered: 5-2001 |
I run the a/c while in the hot pits with the top out/windows down. With my suit and helmet things can get pretty hot. Anything helps. Of course I turn it off on the track. I do not think the compressor is designed to spin at 7700 rpms. At least I'm betting mine isn't. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4141 Registered: 5-2001 |
How the hell do you drive with the AC on when you have to have the windows rolled down??? Why woudl anybody in his right mind have the AC on and windows or top open??? BTW Porsche brakes are just as bad when it comes down to the wire. My friends 996 brakes faded in Sebring and that is not the track where you can easily boil them up. Fluid to high boiling point fluid and you are good. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 430 Registered: 11-2002 |
The irony here is 348 and F355 use many of the same Brembo, Ate, Galfer, and Bosch components that Porsche does. So, IME, it's difficult to make that generality because there are so many variables. I can make most any production car's brakes fade. And I can also modify driving techniques to "save" the brakes and make them last all day. So much comes down to driver, track, condition of the pads, quality, maintenance, weight, etc. I agree that F40 brakes are not track suitable until modifications are performed as I outline in one of the linked threads below, but they're awesome on the street. My educated guess is some other variable contributed to your 355 brake fade experience. Blackhawk Farms Raceway is a tight 1.8 mile track outside Chicago. It's brutal on brakes, but I've had many 355 customers there without the benefit of racing brake pads survive without compromise at this track all day. Just fresh fluid and thick stock Galfer pads, that's all. I do provide advise on cooling and not abusing the brakes.  | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 930 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave, you must REALLY be flying down that track to kill a 355's brakes after a few laps. You sure the fluid was new? | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2003 |
If you plan to go fast at the track there are two things 308s need in the braking area - cold air and high performance pads. Berlinetta Motorcars sells great brake ducting kits if you don't want to fabricate your own and Performance Friction has three ranges of pads. The intermediate pad is great on the track and (after a bit of warm up) fine on the street. If your stock pads don't fade after a few hard laps, you're just not going fast enough. | ||
| Dave Burch (Merlyn)
New member Username: Merlyn Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2002 |
I just don't understand it. I've had my brakes seriously fade after 4 to 5 laps (355F1) on several ocassions. Porsches seem to never have brake problems. Why can't Ferrari make brakes like Porsche? I don't even use the brakes that hard. I had the same experiance in a F40 after one lap! I agree, good fluid, and bleeding before every event is a must, also good point about the AC. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 429 Registered: 11-2002 |
Brake fluid: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/207333.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/206666.html Track preparation: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/213485.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/216919.html Tire pressure: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/212849.html Have fun | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 927 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lee - your brake failure light may just be low fluid. It won't signal for a needed change. There maybe a little sensor on the top of the brake fluid cap that measures the fluid level. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4134 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mike, I also can vouch for the Valvoline Syn. It is great because you can buy it in any store. It is close enough to the big blue racing fluids. Since you will likely just drive casual track not race the car daily, there is not need to go overboard. I had the Valvoline Synt in my 348 and it worked great after boiling the brakes before, and I did get quicker and faster and harder on the brakes. As all the others said: Brakes Brakes Brakes. This is the most neglected speed improvement of your car. Most try to squeeze another 10HP out of the car and all that does is, it makes you crash faster into the wall. If you have great racing brakes that means longer on the throttle and shorter distance on the brakes, means more overall speed. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 380 Registered: 8-2002 |
Lee: I use Valvoline SynPower, dry: 502� F, wet: 343� F The wet is a bit low, but generally you're not going to leave it in your car for 6 years to ever get that much moisture in it. What I do is use the "turkey baster" technique, and just suck fluid out of the reserviour every 3 to 6 months and then add fresh fluid. I've never had a problem with brake fluid "fade" since I've been doing that. Remember, if you're only tracking your otherwise "street" Ferrari two or three or four times a year, you're probably driving on the track like you would be aggressively driving on a "safe" high visibility country road. I do drive pretty hard on the track, but other than the brake fluid thing and better tires, I just keep my car in regularly well maintained stock condition. | ||
| Mike (Dollartaker)
Junior Member Username: Dollartaker Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2001 |
Martin, Thanks for the advice! My car will definitely look and sound good before smashing into turn 1. Mike | ||
| Lee Pierce (Leepierce)
Junior Member Username: Leepierce Post Number: 51 Registered: 1-2003 |
Can someone direct me to a primer on this site (I've searched!) or another to replacing brake fluid. I've had the "Brake Failure" light on since I've owned the car (2 months), and I was hoping a good replacement and bleed might be just what the Dr. ordered. Also, what fluid seems to be the best offering for these cars? '78 308 | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4118 Registered: 5-2001 |
1. have the right CDs in the CD changer, make sure all connections to the AMPs are good and speakers work fine. Since you will be wearing a helmet you need the extra power from the AMPs. 2. Wash your car the day before. Nothing worse than a dirty car in public 3. Floormats, bring an extra set. You will have lots of passengers asking you for rides. The mats get dirty fast. I usually bring 3 sets. Remember: it is not how fast you are on the track, but how good you look while being lapped! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2160 Registered: 2-2001 |
IF you plan os mounting some modern sticky rubber & pushing the car you sill Have to replace both halfshafts with race quality shafts. The factory shafts were not designed for Gs with sticky tires . Ive had 2 fail on me, You dont want to go there | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 544 Registered: 4-2002 |
Rule of thumb is to have at least 1/4 inch of brake pad remaining, particularly on your front pads. If your brake fluid is over 6 months old, change it. Worn pads allow more heat to enter the caliper because there is less distance to travel. I always bleed my brakes before every track event. Check the condition of your reservoir coolant cap. Make sure all radiator hoses and hoses around water pump have tight clamps. When you go out on track, make sure your AC is off. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 422 Registered: 4-2002 |
A general track prep also goes over each and every suspension and engine/subframe retaining bolt to check for adequate TQ. Take a tire pressure guage, and trim the oversteer/understeer with tire pressure (difference front to rear) and trim grip level with overall pressure. Don't be surprised if these settings are significantly different than street pressures. Set them back to street pressures as you leave the track. Take notes on pressures and how the car reacts to changes in pressures. Take a TQ wrench with a socket that fits you wheel bolts. Check TQ on the wheels just before going onto the track each and every time. Bring plenty of fluids, and stay hydrated. Relax between sessions so you can concentrate durring the sessions. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 919 Registered: 5-2001 |
1.Brakes 2.Brakes 3.Brakes | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike P: If you've got stock wheels, you're over-torquing if you're doing 80-90 ft/lbs. Factory recommendation is only 72 ft/lbs torque for the wheel bolts, at least on 308s, 328s, and 348s. And it's interesting... I *never* burn oil in my 308QV, even on a full track day. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 372 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yep, brakes is number one, refresh your brake fluid and you'll have less chance of brake fade from overheating. Also check your radiator coolant. Finally, put a few extra pounds of air in your tires, especially in the front. If you want to see a good checklist for the track, go to www.TradeTutor.com/tgpr/tech.htm | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 202 Registered: 10-2002 |
Castrol SRF or ATE Super Blue... Fresh fluid with a high boiling point. 1. Your stock brakes will probably boil after 5 laps, be very alert for the pedal going soft and that's it for that run until you can bleed them. I recommend Speed Bleeders (www.speedbleeder.com) for easy bleeding. You could try upgrading pads, too--Porterfield pads, www.porterfield-brakes.com, the carbon/kevlar R4-S. Bring some brake fluid with you. 2. Bring lots of oil. You'll probably burn some, with 15 mins at hard high RPM driving. 3. Check wheel bearings for play and retorque your bolts to spec, most run between 80 and 90 ft-lbs. 4. Remove your spare ;) 5. Check those fluids! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3092 Registered: 9-2001 |
brakes, brakes brakes check all fluids, steering rack, small leaks | ||
| Mike (Dollartaker)
Junior Member Username: Dollartaker Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2001 |
I have a stock 85' Euro 308 GTS QV. What would be the top three things that you would do, or have done, to prep a 308 for track? "If anything goes wrong, it's going to happen out there". Thanks Mike |