| Author | Message | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 510 Registered: 12-2001 |
okay - since historical women have always had the "Last Word" I will have it here therefore allowing this thread to pass on to the next dimension - elsewhere. No hurt feelings - no childish barbs. Opinions are always welcome - but hijacking threads or personal jabs are too juvenile for all of us here no matter what your age, car or status. Be thankful we can enjoy and appreciate our favorite vehicles no matter what marque they are. Our individuality is what makes this a better place. and.....one last thing: Ferrari's rule......and women are always right (wink)  | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2002 |
Post/Thread... Nice to see your're still judging people by how many posts they have here. *RMK | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2002 |
"I AM GLAD TO SEE THIS THREAD DIE" This post was dead until you reset it. Yawn magoo. *RMK | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2678 Registered: 2-2001 |
Don't know what happened with the double post. But it ain't the worst thing in this world is it? Right Ryanab? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2677 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ryanab, Go back to sleep. With only 33 posts you have a lot to learn here. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2675 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ryanab, Go back to sleep. With only 33 posts you have a lot to learn here. | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yawn. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2674 Registered: 2-2001 |
I AM GLAD TO SEE THIS THREAD DIE. LETS NOT FORGET IT THOUGH. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2654 Registered: 2-2001 |
"Much Ado About Nothing". This is the title that should be given to this thread. I hope no comments is a sign that everybody is stepping back and looking at what has been posted on this thread. This thread has had enough posts to show just how far these battles can go. I think this can be a lesson to all of us. Don't put your F.C. chat member against the wall with a challenge, especially one about his Ferrari. He will come out with fangs showing and defend his car. After all this is what the site is, FERRARI CHAT. Not FERRARI vs WHATEVER. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2632 Registered: 2-2001 |
Chris, First of all you didn't insult me. I thought it was interesting reading your comments. One of the things I noticed in your comments including this last one was how paranoid you are. You keep defending yourself even at this point. By your own admission the comments in these posts don't have to be inflammatory so just relax and go from here. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 438 Registered: 2-2001 |
I agree with Mark. I have a Ferrari but I just like cars period. Nika, I am sorry to say that if by some small chance we ever pass each other on the road I am going to have to throw some attitude your way just for the chance that you may blow a kiss my way because of it. | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2001 |
Look Magoo, I don't have "Sour Grapes" about owning a Ferrari as that I am 100% confident I will own one in the future. Now why would I want one? Well because they are art on wheels, they make really cool noises, no manufacturer has ever had the racing success in F1 this company has, no one had such a passion for race cars that trickled into the road cars. I feel that us lower class non-Fcar owners are often attacked, and (I chose my email name 6 years ago and am just to begin entering college for those of you with no sense of humor). Everytime I try to point out a more beneficial point to a SUpra or BMW you have tried in many illogical ways to tear up whats better in trying to maintain the facade that your Fcar was a better purchase, look at your responses to my emails: "My Ferrari is much more reliable" "0-60 times don't matter", and "The BMW is ugly". Well, I love Ferrari's, but I also love BMW's and when you attack my passion I feel just as motivated to put up with you "[Insert car name here]" as you do to defend your passion. Let me also remark that no one has spoken the truth (I tried to portry earlier but failed) more than Markg. Magoo, you don't have to read these emails and if I insulted you in any way I will not childishly say "too Bad" but rather that I had no intention to insult you, merely an intention to make you see things from my perspective. At the very least we have discovered why many Fcars love their cars (the boner analogy is great) and we have also been thoroghly educated in engine dynamics as well as what owners expect from their F-cars or BMW brick. This was not at all a ridiculous thread and if you think it is, simply don't read it and voice that you will refrain from ever reading it again. This thread turned into a personal attack, many of them on me which I was completely expecting as many of your per8sonalities are predictable (mine is too, this isn't an insult), and I feel many of us were responsible for myself included. So lets simply agree to disagree and if you would like to argue for the sake of arguing continue and for those of you who feel like being squashed between the toilet seat by a 400 lb gorilla this is your opportunity to exit. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2625 Registered: 2-2001 |
RMV and Andrew, It's not that you shouldn't participate in the Thread it is how a person participates with his comments. General Disscussion is what this section is not "Whose dog is the biggest and the best". The guys who are the wannabies of a Ferrari who just come on to create a problem probably will have a problem from now in in that the Ferrari members who participated in these posts won't allow it to get this far again. I hope. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1976 Registered: 5-2001 |
sorry double post.. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1974 Registered: 5-2001 |
I drive mine daily and have no problem. After innitial repairs the car is maintenance free. Much unlike my BMW that saw my mechanic weekly for one •••• of the next. As for the purchase cost. Well if you actually buy a Ferrari instead of a Ricer you do not have to put Nitors in the car and put a $2,000 mean looking air dragging, more weight producing spoiler on your car. You can save the money on souping your car up and spend it on the added maintenance cost. Trust me the chicks will rather drive in your slow 308 than the other guys fast Civic. (if that is what matters) | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 481 Registered: 12-2001 |
If I get attitude from another car - I never give the finger salute - that's soooooo crude. I just either a) blow a kiss and smile or b) hold up my my thumb and forefinger (showing the "1 inch") and drive off. The reactions are priceless | ||
| Marv B (Mdb69)
New member Username: Mdb69 Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2002 |
This thread is getting too long for my poor 56k modem. Guess I need broadband now. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2454 Registered: 2-2001 |
Audi TT driver's are the devil. Alright, maybe not the devil, but only a couple guys have been a •••• to me in the Fcar and one was in a TT with his girlfriend. I was gonna just turn left when the light turned green, he rolled his window down and I even was nice, said hey whats up, he made a gay comment so of course I had to smoke him and go straight, and then when it was one lane I slowed way down and then accelerate, slowed way down and accelerate, etc. The guy was a ••••, he deserved it. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 370 Registered: 10-2001 |
Fire pumps huh? Must be all those paper houses that inspired the design. Of course, the joke would be that it would be useful for Ferrari (and Europas actually too) considering how many seem to burn up!!! LOL I do keep an extinguisher in the front bonnet even though I've upgraded all the fire prone places. They used plastic fuel line which modern gas eats through. Nice huh! | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ken, And one day I would like to own a car with an engine that was originally intended for powering fire pumps. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 591 Registered: 9-2001 |
last night a guy in an audi tt came up behind me and put his high beams on to check out my car. Then when the road became two lanes he pulled up and floored it as if he thought I would race him. yeah 10:30 at night though the town with only cops on the road beside us. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2002 |
"WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG"..........RODNEY KING.. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 649 Registered: 8-2001 |
At a stoplight yesterday, a couple of kids in their hopped-up Honda flash some hand signs at me as they made their turn through the intersection. I have no idea what the signs mean. Gang related? I was hesitant to wave back (might be construed as a challenge, or something unpleasant). | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 369 Registered: 10-2001 |
Maybe some day I'll have a Supra with a coffee can exhaust and be cool. Then I can cruise the boulavard and shout rude things to girls. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2002 |
Richelson "To be honest it seems that all of the individuals that I meet on this site without Ferraris are low class." -You need to watch what you say about non-Ferrari owners, as myself I am hear to learn as much as I can and maybe make some new friends out of it. I am very interested in purchasing a Ferrari in the future but I am in no way low class. -That is plain un-called for. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 205 Registered: 3-2002 |
If you guys think not participating in this thread is a good idea I will adhear to it. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Junior Member Username: Markg Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2001 |
I see the whole car thing like this: I like cars, specifically European sports cars (my 308 and 911S)but also enjoyed the Hell out of my modified 72 240Z. As a car 'nut', I can appreciate ALL fellow car enthusiasts. I am not even slightly interested in owning a lowrider or Rod, but I still enjoy their car shows and love talking cars with fellow car buffs NO MATTER what their choice of car make is...I have spent hours shooting the s&*t with Lowriders in east San Jose; exchanged war stories with muscle car owners; driven English car enthusiasts Jags and Spitfires; hung with the Harley crowd (who seem to really appreciate F cars!)and so on...I don't realy care WHAT kind of car your into, show me respect for my preferences and I return the respect. | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
I will defer to Magoo's maturity and I will no longer actively participate in this thread as I feel there is some aggression (and I won't shirk; I admit to being partly responsible for some of it). Let me just finish off by saying the following: if Ferrari's are not your 'thing' please choose to do one of two things; stop posting here and stirring up the serious members, or alternatively, participate and demonstrate some respect to the people who have spent their hard earned dollars on their dream cars. No one asked for your opinions anyhow. This is a Ferrari forum, not a general performance car forum. I can understand the owners' anger; if I was currently a Ferrari owner, you would feel the full force of my wrath as well! Finally, Mark (Lambert): I hope that I'm wrong and you're right in reference to my alleged overreaction. It's just that I would hate to be seen as a second class citizen here. Magoo, I hope you've helped restore some sanity here. Your recent post has helped me calm down a little. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 201 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well Said Magoo, This thread is getting alittle long though..but the number of posts keeps on going up..I think thats good though..I dont get why chris keeps on going back to 0-60 stats..how many times have we said that thats what ferrari's are not about? If chris read all these posts he would know this..Im wondering if 0-60 is the only thing his rice burner is good for..also as far as top speed goes..most of these rice burners top at about 120mph with a b,w at about 145...all cars from the testrossa up top out at over 180mph..thats speed just like 0-60..just a thought | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ed Gualt!!! You crack me the hell up!!! HAHAHAHA throughout this discussion on this thread flinging arguments back and forth, reading your post was just the tension breaker...hahaha "I still get a boner when I drive my own car" good one! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2621 Registered: 2-2001 |
James, Not to reply is OK but it doesn't say what you mean. No reply could mean you are out of town, etc. So the guy really doesn't get it. Say that you don't want to hear anymore bullshit and be done with it. Then they get the message. There are guys who truly want to learn about Ferrari. That is what this site is about, not how much more horsepower my Supra has then your Ferrari and I can take you off the line and so on and so on. These guys should be ignored and told so. Guys We need suggestions. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 175 Registered: 7-2001 |
Magoo, With all do respect(and I do mean that), instead of typing "I don't hear you" why don't YOU just ignore the thread completely if it bothers you so much? Let the depraved, poor, non ferrari owning souls waste perfectly good banter on one another and perhaps we can all learn something about each others cars at the same time. As an aside, I think this thread will be at 500 posts in no time. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 140 Registered: 2-2001 |
I was thinking of a way to end this thread, since I started it, but I wanted to word it without offending anyone. Just tonight there was a thread posted on a DeTomaso list that summed it up pretty well, or at least 50% of what I wanted to say. "Come on guys, we all have met people with all kinds of nice cars with an > attitude. It is hard to be humble when you own a car that fantasies are made of. > And that car could be a Shelby Mustang, a GTO, a Porsche, a Pantera or even a > Ferrari. The exclusivity of the car seems to accelerate that loss of being > humble, though, and sometimes is seems to be contagious. The more rare the car, > the less the humbleness? Maybe I've had that attitude myself over the last 20 > years I owned my Shelby Mustang. > > I'm a long time Ford fan, but I have to tell you, today, I have appreciation for > a lot of other cars, even some Japanese models. They are all nice cars. And 99.9% > of the owners are nice people." Many come to this site because they own a Ferrari, and some because they want a Ferrari. For that, we all do have something in common. However, Ferrari is not the only dream or fantasy out there, so when you insult someone's other dream or their choices, they become offended. Some get defensive about Ferrari in the same way that others get defensive about their cars. However, telling the others to leave this site will do no good because they still want to own a Ferrari someday, and, are trying to learn more. Or, like me, they would like to get back into one again in the future. Either that, or they have way too much time. This thread has come a long way from what started as poking fun at a $60k 400i. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2617 Registered: 2-2001 |
If you don't like "I don't hear you," Use "END OF DISSCUSSION". That's even better. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2616 Registered: 2-2001 |
HEY GUYS, This has been a hot thread here. Why no comments all of a sudden? Where are your comments on the last post. C'mon, this is the way to solve it and weed out the bad element who want to cause trouble. Let's hear it "PRO OR CON." | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2612 Registered: 2-2001 |
Listen, There is fireing from both sides going on here. From reading the posts we all want to be nice guys. It isn't us, it's just that other guy isn't it? This thread and its posts can become one of sanity even now. What we have to realize is that this all started over "Who has the biggest Dog". "My car is better than your car." If this can be kept out of the disscussions and a civilized disscussion can be commented on rather then debasing one anothers vehicle this would lessen. It is true that there are some of these guys who wish they had a Ferrari and there is "SOUR GRAPES" on their part so to knock Ferrari or belittle it in anyway seems to comfort their souls. The best thing to do is weed them out. So when this happens use this comment. "I Don't Hear You" and stop the disscussion. You will be surprised how quick this will cause the problem to go away. Just a suggestion. It's got to be better then this bullshit. Now lets knock it off and try agin, What do ya say????? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2002 |
OMG!! LOL!! The notorious "icy hot stunnaz"! Bahahahahaha. My friends and I couldn't stop laughing at that site when we first found it, then it spread throughout the internet, and more than likely, all the "fan mail" those gents got, convinced them to take the site down. Man, that was some hillarious stuff! | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 173 Registered: 7-2001 |
Arthur, I checked out your profile pic. You copycat!!!!! I guess deep in your heart, you are just another "bling bling" gangsta.  | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 392 Registered: 6-2001 |
Guys: Have you looked at Chris' email address? It tells it all. Art | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
New member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2002 |
RM, Relax. You are reading too much into his statement, are way too defensive, and are over-reacting. Have you portrayed yourself as low class? No. So assume that he isn't talking about you. I don't own a Ferrari either, but I didn't think that post was referring to me because I'm not on here making an ass of myself. That post was clearly aimed at Chris, and others who, in the past, have likely exhibited the same boorish behavior. Chris, You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder and an axe to grind. If you ask me, you're trolling... | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2002 |
The comment I have issue with is: "[t]o be honest it seems that all of the individuals I meet on this site without Ferraris are low class." So, as a non-owner/member of this site, I, in Richelson's honest opinion, must have no class. You question why I was offended by such a statement? If he was talking about Ricer boys (whom I also find offensive BTW), then I have no problem with this statement. However such an interpretation cannot be inferred from Richelson's statement. It seems very clear to me. My mentioning of education was used to demonstrate that just because I frequent this site and do not currently own a Ferrari, it does not mean I am a low class red-neck. Such an assertion is simply non-sequitur. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 154 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'm starting to think it might be time to put this thread to rest. It has long since passed that "healthy debate" stage, and too many people are starting to turn on eachother. Not really what this should be about. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 249 Registered: 3-2001 |
Hey RM. Read his post. I don't think he included everyone in the world. He said "seems". Would you like me to give you the dictionary definition? The funny thing is that I think Rich is a doctor. Oh yeah, I am sorry but I finished 4 years of college and am premed since that matters to you. I think you are getting judgemental by asking for peoples level of education. Guess what I am 22 and busted my balls to get my 308. Re-read his e-mail as I see no reason for you to be upset. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2002 |
chris coleman what is your age may i ask? | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2002 |
Richelson: Let me see if I understand your assertion correctly: All the members on this site without Ferrari's are low class. Is this correct? Well as much as I agree with the other Ferrari owners such as Magoo et al, may I just say that your comment is rude and offensive to those of us who are not in a position (yet) to purchase our dream car(s). I take deep offence from your statement; not all of us have rich daddy's to finance our automotive dreams. Some of us have to do it on our own. In my case I am 23 and studying to become a lawyer. I have attended Australia's most prestigious university for nearly 6 years, and have already completed one degree. What is the level of your education???? I utterly and unreservedly reject your crude, uninformed, sweepingly generalised comment that non-owners on this site are bereft of 'class'. Even Magoo believes I'm a gentleman. (I hope he was being serious though!) | ||
| Charles Gault (Knox_charles)
New member Username: Knox_charles Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2001 |
I haven't been reading this thread, and I 'm not going to read all the posts, but I would like to heartily(?) agree with wm hart's post. I too have owned a varity of cars and have appreciated their differing strengths (and weaknesses). And Cris, I have raced for over 20 years. I now own a 328 and am very happy with it. Ever time I drive it, I get a smile on my face. Am I going to race it or track it? No. I didn't get it for that reason. I got it to be a Grand Touring vehicle, and it suits me just fine. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2603 Registered: 2-2001 |
Chris, You haven't been here long enough for your ridiculous comments to deserve an answer. Like water on a ducks back. So calm down, stop quacking, observe what is being said around you and you might learn something. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 230 Registered: 12-2001 |
I have been monitoring this thread for the last couple of days, and frankly, i'm not sure what the issue is at this point. I own a BMW (740i Sport), along with a ricerooney (modestly tweaked WRX) and currently drive a 550-type Ferrari (my sixth F car), having had alot of other cars, including other german and italian cars over the years. I do not regard any of them as interchangeable. Each car had its strengths and weaknesses. I feel extremely passionate about the driving, and leave the image issues to others. ( i caught up with somebody when i was out driving the other day in an F car whose face is recognizable the world over as a big money celebrity type. No attitude: he admitted that "I just like cars." This is a person who has more cars and money than all of us put together, and frankly, he probably likes each and every one of them on their own merits). I feel the same way, even if i don't have the wherewithal to own every car i think i like. What's the question? Is one car better than another? Sure, for some things. Is one a better value than another, based on some aspect of its performance? Sure. What does that prove? God bless the people that saw merit in certain old cars when they were neglected or regarded as impractical. Otherwise, alot of iron wouldn't be with us today. Let's appreciate our hobby/passion/ calling for what it is, and share what is positive about it, cause frankly, the majority of drivers out there today don't have a clue and don't want to, either. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2602 Registered: 2-2001 |
Bruce thank you for your compliments and your concerns about me spending too much time "defending us" against these guys. I have reflected only what has been said by some of the other guys in past posts. I also have given my opinions also. When someone mentions my name in a post I will answer it. As far as moving on, "IN good time my friend, In good time". Thanks again for your concerns. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2002 |
Richelson - I agree with you 100% magoo is a great man and has lots of class....problem is Chris you think that you just deserve his respect when you come in here bashing his dream. Magoo has treated me with nothing but respect as well as the majority of other owners/future owners on the site and is always willing to help in the tech column. I hate to say this but you are a joke just trying to ruffle peoples feathers. Almost every damn comment you have posted on here is in some way degrading the cars ferrari makes or stating how you know of a car that is better. As far as being unimpressed with a 328....hell I would be to if considering it next to a ZO6 or 360, its a totally different class of car from a different era....since you love Supras so much get a late 80's supra or BMW and put it against the 328! The 328 will kill it in handling and most performance areas. Man you just cant leave well enough alone..... Ed- I still get a boner too baby when I hear the starter whir! :0) Nothing beats driving an F-car. Jack- I dont know how many times I have stopped at a light and been in the same situation. I bet you are so SO pumped to get the F-car!! Delivery person did the same thing to me....pushed mine back 2 weeks! Bottom line Chris dont bash my friends...if anyone is insulting and incredibly condescending it is you....go to the Porsche board they will love you there!! | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 149 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ed--that's great! I'm going to expound on your "boner" reference and say you "hit it on the head". You can tell a lot about a person by the car they drive. We've heard that a lot over the years, and while not everything appeals to everyone, you don't hear of too many BMW owners telling you they got a "boner" driving their car. It's "unprofessional". While BMWs are undeniably well-engineered cars, one of the turnoffs for me is in their conservatively "safe" image and how many you see. I was at a stop light last weekend, and I was surrounded by 6 BMWs! That's no lie. I laughed because one of them had been hot-rodding around, lane jumping prior to that. He was a real "hot shot", and then all of a sudden there he was, surrounded by 5 nearly identical cars. Oops. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 698 Registered: 12-2001 |
Chris, what is your problem. Go to the Porsche page then. Magoo is a great gentleman and this site has class. To be honest it seems that all of the individuals that I meet on this site without Ferraris are low class. You think Lambo owners are going to tolerate this either? This site has some of the nicest people and I have known many Lamborghini owners and they were not near as nice or many weren't as knowledgeable about their cars as Ferrari owners. I will say this. You discuss how Magoo is giving Ferrari owners a bad name. Everytime I see a rice burner I think a here is a person that is trying to get CHEAP attention and buys a car that I see grandmothers driving and for some reason thinks they are a badass!!!! I also agree that Magoo on your desire to own a Ferrari. I think that you came to this site. Personally, I feel if you want something bad enough you will work for it. There are a few guys on here in their early 20s that wanted a Ferrari enough to learn to work on it themselves and spend every bit of money that they have so they could have this great car. That is Passion, and Devotion. IMO that is great. They could have purchased another car that was more reasonable etc. but they didn't. That takes Courage. Yes, I do believe you have to own a Ferrari to fully understand what it is all about. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1179 Registered: 2-2001 |
I work on BMWs along with a host of other makes and probably the last car I would consider buying is a BMW. They are the most boring, identical looking cars in the world. They drive OK but they are just plain boring, even the 12 cylinder models. I have never driven one that I would trade my 1996 Impala SS even for and I am very serious about that. In fact one of my former BMW customers drove my Impala and sold his Bimmer and purchased a used Impala. I know BMW has a great following but when I drive one I am never given a glance from other motorists. When I drive a Ferrari it like a parade has formed. I still get a boner when I drive my own car. | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2001 |
Okay, I'm completely sincere in saying a BMW offers 90% a Ferrari performance in all ways without 90% the hassle. Lets compare my M3 which cost 21k to purchase and upgrade to 300hp, and a similar priced Ferrari, say the 308. The M3 brakes faster, it handles much better, It accelerates faster, that pretty much covers all aspects of performance, more than 0-60 and 1/4 times. How about the 355, my M3 hit 0-60 in 4.9 a 355 4.8 to 4.6 are the accepted values so we're close in accelration ( I can't compare 1/4 mile haven't tested straight line other than this). How about Handling, well the M3 beat the 355 in best handling car in America Test and will pull past 1.00g with just 3k in suspension. Braking? Ferrari has a slight edge here but once again they are very close. Now in terms of performance how I am not getting 90% or more of Ferrari performance in every way? Back to reliability, the BMW has had exactly 0 problems for the year or so I've owned it, how many Ferrari's have had 0 problems from '95? Once again I'm not saying my car is 'better' or having 'sour grapes'. And as an interesting aside Magoo tries to point out with only 50 posts I am naive, well I challenge that Magoo is naive. Magoo, when was the last time you track tested or raced? When was the last time you completely rebuilt an engine or rebuilt fire damaged cars? And once again I still love Ferrari's and would own one if were practical for me to do so, but its not practical. And owners like Magoo and Andrew tarnish the Ferrari name with their insensitive, naive, and pompous remarks. And Magoo, like I said before you are incredibly condescending to anyone who doesn't drive a Ferrari. I don't know what crap you put up with but I put with a whole lot. Likewise I have had many posts which I inquired a great deal about Ferrari's when I was thinking of buying a Fire damaged 308 and wrecked 328. I drove a 328 a short way and was thoroughly unimpressed, and at 23k for a wrecked one it didn't make sense for me to get one. I want to know more about Ferrari's but I feel many of you cold benefit from education as well. And as I said before if all Ferrari owners are as condescending and rude as many of you have been to me, I don't want one, I'll buy a Lambo or P-car, the owners are a lot more sensible. And no, I have not been on any NSX list, I am on the BMW, DeLorean, Lamborghini, and Mercedes Mailing lists. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 139 Registered: 2-2001 |
I know there are people on this list who say they drive their Ferrari daily, and that is great. Wish I could have when I had mine. But how many of you have that second car in the garage? Is there anybody in the country that owns "only" 1 car that is a Ferrari? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2444 Registered: 2-2001 |
That was when it was on the road. It's been sitting in my shop for like 4 or 5 months now, with all it's parts randomly scattered around. It would not be good at all if you were walking for half a year waiting to put your car back together. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 184 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bret, I wish I only had to wait a week and a half....my car has been undergoing teh 30K now for over a month and a half! Its even worse cause I cant work on it. At least you have things to tinker with and try to figure out what they all do, all I have is an empty garage space. James I agree 100% if I had 25K and had to buy one car and one car only I would never buy a Ferrari. They are just to unreliable for daily driving...weekly driving yes, but the grind of day to day is too much!! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2441 Registered: 2-2001 |
You're definitely right that if you have $25K spend it on something else because the Ferrari can not be your only car. There have been times when I've waited a week and a half waiting for a part and couldn't drive the Ferrari. Usually you can get parts in a couple days, but even then what would you walk where you had to go while the car is on blocks waiting. Just a random thought, if I had $25K to spend on an only car, hmmm let me think, I would get a used Audi A4 1.8T (easy to make faster than the 2.8s), a used BMW, or a C4 vette with money left over to make sure all was well. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 170 Registered: 7-2001 |
Brett, I agree with you. There are many cars which are just as, or more reliable than a honda and many are cheaper to fix as well. Just saying that if you have $25,000 to spend on a car, and you need it to be a daily driver, reliable, dependable and cheap to serivice, a 20 year old Ferrari would not be the best choice due to the high cost of maintenance, long wait for parts and reliability issues. Willis.... My dad had a horrible experience with his Ferrari, and was not taken care of by FNA. I know other owners who have had similar experiences. Many have had wonderful experiences, you seem to be one of them. I still don't think the quality control and after sales service is a good as it should be for a company with an established dealer network and unit sales of ___(I can't remember how many cars have been sold). I don't know if my dad was unlucky and got a poorly built car, or if Ferrari is not the right car for him as he expects to much. Regardless, I think waiting for over 4 months for brake pads, and having the car in the shop for 6 months with cracked headers on three different occasions is totally unacceptable. If any of you read NSX files, Doug Hayashi's 355 F1 is leaking tranny fluid. The cost to replace the unit, which is the only option, is $4,900 US which is insane. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2438 Registered: 2-2001 |
I hope if I ever can afford a new Ferrari I can talk about it like Willis. He has always had nothing but good things to say about his 360. Ernesto, Brian, and several others have had pretty much trouble free cars. This is a great credit to Ferrari IMO. There is a lot more to a 308 than just purchasing it, a lot more. Especially if you want to make it fast. I sit there and just wonder how American and Jap sports cars are so cheap to make fast. It amazes me. As far as reliability of Hondas, they're alright. BUT I would put my jeep up against anything when it comes to getting you home. I have yet to find a more durable car day in and day out. And if something starts running wrong you can take a part 3/4 of the car with a couple wrenches on the side of the road, and I have done so before. That's what worries me about new cars, if something goes wrong there is just nothing I can do except check a couple fuses really. New cars are amazing though in how well they run and never need care really. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 436 Registered: 2-2001 |
I love my 308 but I just don't see it as being a wise choice for a 20 year old as their main means of transportation. Yes they could afford the purchase price but there is much more to it then that. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 647 Registered: 8-2001 |
Last year, the regular maintenace cost (fluids and filters) for my 360 was about the same as my Nissan Maxima SE. Either my Ferrari dealer was charging too low or the Nissan service center was too high. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 645 Registered: 8-2001 |
You cannot generalize that all Ferraris are unreliable simply because your Dad had a bad experience with his 355. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 168 Registered: 7-2001 |
C'mon Martin, Are you saying that a $25,000 Ferrari (308 or Dino??) will be as reliable as a brand new $25,000 Honda as a daily driver?? I honestly cannot see this being the case. However, I have no experiece with that year and model of Ferrari, so I could be totally wrong. I also think the cost to maintain both cars will be much different. My fathers 1997 355 was not reliable at all, not even close to a the 1989 Honda Civic SI I had with 250,000 km on it. All you need to do with a honda is put oil and gas in it, and then change the timing belts every once in a while. They run forever. I could see the two being the same for reliability if they were both driven 1 day a week. The average person drives 25,000km per year, I don't think any Ferrari could handle being driven like that for a couple of year without some major repair costs. For a Honda, that type of mileage/year is encouraged. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 469 Registered: 12-2001 |
The thing about rice rockets is that you can upgrade at the pace your wallet can allow you to. My old car - first was suspension and tires...then engine tricks etc. One Valentine's Day my boyfriend (now ex-husband) had my rims painted for me. How romantic! Would I have bought a Ferrari - YES...if I had the money....but my little rice rocket became a high performance machine. I sold it for so much less than it was worth......if I bought the Ferrari I could of made money or at least retained some of it. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1956 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, Ferraris are as reliable as Rice Rockets! Not as cheap to maintan but not that much more expensive either. Quite frankly I am happy that Ricer Kids do not buy Ferraris. Totally different people. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 167 Registered: 7-2001 |
Mark, That is true to some extent. But most of these kids have ALL of thier money invested into their cars, and will have minimal savings for repairs. A $25,000 rice rocket will just need the regular honda maintenance, which even poor students can afford. I doubt these guys who have 25k into the rice rockets also have 10 grand sitting in the bank waiting to get nickel and dimed by the Ferrari dealers. Plus, they probably need their honda to drive to school everyday. They cannot afford to miss school because they are waiting for brake pad for an F car. I can see it now "Sorry Mrs. Becker, I missed my exam yesterday becasue my Ferrari wouldn't start" In a perfect world where Ferraris are cheap to maintain and reliable, who wouldn't rather have a 20 year old 308/328 over some brand new, tin box Honda?? | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Junior Member Username: Markg Post Number: 175 Registered: 2-2001 |
You can get into a 308 series, especially a Dino, for about the same price as a fully loaded Saturn these days. When I was in my 20's a 308 was priced about the same as a house. I don't think the general public understands just how cheap these cars are; there are kids in town here who dream of owning my car someday who have invested $25K + in their Rice Rockets .... | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 198 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hey Bruce Im only 20 years old and I highly doubt a lot of people can afford a ferrari at 20 years old..could you bruce? I would like to ask you to refarin from making mocking comments towards me driving my fathers ferrari... because im proud that i can drive one at my age, as you would be too. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 383 Registered: 3-2001 |
Good advice, Bruce. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 118 Registered: 4-2002 |
MAGOO I RESPECT YOUR INTELLIGENCE AND SENSE OF HUMOR FOR THIS F.C. ,IMOA,YOU SPEND TOO MUCH TIME OUT OF YOUR PRECIOUS DAY ANSWERING OR DEFENDING US FROM THESE IGNORANT FERRARI MISFIT WANNABEES.. WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE DRIVE, WE LOVE WHAT WE DRIVE, WE KNOW WHAT WE CAN AFFORD(NOT LIKE ANDREW DRIVING DADDYS CAR), SO MOVE ON AND IGNORE THESE DISTRACTIONS..... REGARDS, BRUCE | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 191 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ferraris are so much more than performance. Hence their appeal. Unmodified Supra etc don't have this appeal (despite being competant cars in their own right) and so people are not prepared to pay mega $$$ for them the way they are for Ferrari. Hence even if they have superior performance they are relative bargains. Perhaps modifying them injects some much needed passion. Bottom Line: As a Ferrari lover, I'm impressed by the 10second 1/4 mile times but if that's all I cared about I would have bought a Supra etc..... Comparison is pointless. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2001 |
" Can't we just all get along " quote Rodney K.- Oh, he drove a Hyundai before but now a ....... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2598 Registered: 2-2001 |
If Andrew has questions RE: The Ferrari, I am sure anyone on the site will help to answer his questions. It is the "Sour Grapes" guys who are the irritants here. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 166 Registered: 7-2001 |
Magoo, It was Andrew who started this little debate with his comments about the inferiority of every car brand on the market, that isnt a Ferrari. He then went on to state his opinion that all car owners, who don't own a Ferrari, are not enthusiasts. Minding our own business while on your site is one thing, showing this kid (and others)that ferrari is not the be all, end all solution is another. | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2002 |
Magoo: I agree 100% with your last post. I think you've defined the issue correctly. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2001 |
Chris, you posted: "The reason us 'ricers' stay on ths list is because we like Ferrari's in some minute or major way. Why do we flare up? Because you owners refuse to accept the Supra and BMW are good cars, yes they aren't Ferrari's, thats one of their best qualities. But they offer 90% of the experience without 90% the hassle." Most of us who now own Ferraris have owned BMWs or Porsches or (fill in the blank) in the past - other cars simply don't come close to 90% of the experience of driving a Ferrari on a beautiful spring day on a challenging, twisty section of Pacific Coast Highway at a comfortably swift speed. I'm happy that you are satisfied with your car and it's performance, but if you ever get to experience what I have, you will understand why our passion cannot be measured by 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2589 Registered: 2-2001 |
Andrew, Let me say this to you. It is not the people who sign on who want to know about Ferrari, such as yourself, It is those who choose to be irritants and create problems on the site. If they like what they drive then enjoy, but don't disrupt the F.C. with a bunch of bull. Those guys who want to know of Ferrari and long to have one I am sure the other members as well as myself would like to hear your comments. Those who just want to brag about their Rice Burner because they don't have a Ferrari,"SOUR GRAPES" don't belong here. They only cause problems. BRGDS, | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 190 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ryan FYI a lot of ferrari owners are like magoo..they share his excitement and his passion for ferrari, But the main difference between you and magoo is that magoo actually has a ferrari so he can compare what its like to drive a ferrari and a supra..you on the other hand don't have a ferrari, you know how credable that makes your opinion on them right? And in case u didnt look at the address this is a ferrari chat board so talk of rice burners gets tedius and boring after awhile, so give it a break ok? | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 189 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris you really think you get 90% of the ferrari experience from a supra or BMW? Thats very interesting.... Mind if I ask if you have ever drivin a ferrari? If so what kind, and how was it? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2588 Registered: 2-2001 |
TWA, these guys are worse than "Hackers". Just a irritant. They go site to site just to cause problems. Superman? He acts more like Lois Lane. BRGDS, | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2002 |
Magoo - Thank God all F-Car owners are not like you. TWA - I wish I had a fast car, so I will assume your talking about the other fellow. | ||
| TWA (Exoticars)
Junior Member Username: Exoticars Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think this guy is the same clown that posted a bunch of crap on nsxsc.com under the name of Supraman. He has been banned from that site for 1 week. He's just a punk with a fast car and doesn't understand true quality and refinement. Like pn the NSX site, we have now indulged him here as well. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2585 Registered: 2-2001 |
Chris and Ryan, A total of 51 posts between you on this site, It figures. If you had been here long enough to read the past ridiculous arguements that have been caused by "RICE BURNERS" you would know why it irritates the members on this site to hear such crap. A disscussion is a disscussion but starting a arguement is another thing. This is what has been happening. So since you don't know the history of this problem your comments are not heard and do not mean anything. I did go back and read my comments and again I mean every word of it. If you are included and the truth hurts, "TOO BAD." There wouldn't be so many replys about the stupid comments of the "RiceBurners" if they were comments that warranted an answer and not comments that bring about arguements. Read the previous comments and also the ones in the archives that caused arguments created by the "Rice Burners." Oh and Ryan, As far as waiting for a barrage of "Hate Mail", don't look for any these guys have more to do then answer your comment. As a matter of fact this is my last and only comment to you. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 795 Registered: 6-2001 |
I dont know chris, theyve been pretty understanding about the fact that i want an 87 buick regal GNX and a lotus esprit S4s. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2431 Registered: 2-2001 |
I didnt know us owners were a collective group. It is quite obvious that most of us do accept them for what they are. But don't expect us to glorify them like you guys do. To each his own. I'd say just drop it. | ||
| Nunja Bitness (Jaxfl)
New member Username: Jaxfl Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2001 |
I hope to get a titanium 360 this Summer. When I do, I will never expect to beat a last-gen turbo Supra in any contest of speed. I've owned two of them and its way too easy to get 400 HP to the wheels in those things ($2,000 in mods). Many of the Supra owners are investing $10,000+ in mods to get 600-800 hp at the wheels. That F40 race should be a good match. The presence of a Ferrari is what we pay for. It'll be enjoyable to pull up to the local haunts in a 360. | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2001 |
The reason us 'ricers' stay on ths list is because we like Ferrari's in some minute or major way. Why do we flare up? Because you owners refuse to accept the Supra and BMW are good cars, yes they aren't Ferrari's, thats one of their best qualities. But they offer 90% of the experience without 90% the hassle. I'm not saying I don't like Ferrari's, I love them, I wish I could afford to drive one, but I can't. I can't spend "extra money" which Magoo seems to have lying around so it makes sense for me to buy a BMW.Anyone of you who wish to donate a Ferrari feel free. I feel an immense amount of passion for my brick probably more than 90% of you for your Ferrari's, but my car of choice is still a Ferrari. Remember, we can feel car passion too and just because we don't drive Ferrari's it doesn make us inferior. And you are incredibly condescending to anyone who has a passion for a car other than a Ferrari. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2428 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't hate ricers or anyone for that matter (closest to hate though is ricers followed closely by Pcars). But I'm talking about cars, not the people. Someone always starts with the whole better car argument which gets this thing going. It is also never a Ferrari owner that starts it as far as I can tell (why would anyone start arguing their Ferrari is better at such and such on a Ferrari site where everyone already likes them). So, because someone brings up ricers, etc in an epic boast this whole thing snowballs into an argument. This time was a slight exception as it started as making fun of a Ferrari that was riceafied, but still. There is no perfect car, if anyone here knows of one I will be more than happy to hear/laugh about it. | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2002 |
"I still can't figure why the Porsche and Toyota guys find the Ferrari site so interesting" Hmm wait a minute, maybe they find F-Cars interesting like everyone else here! I am not trying to start a flame war, but please magoo spare us your ignorance. Read your comments again, and you will realize how bad you make F-Car owners look. You are just contributing to the problem.. Yes, Rice Burners are trash and will never compare to Ferrari. EVER! But if they want to talk about ricers let them. Don't read it. *RMK (awaiting the barrage of hate mail that will soon follow). | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 358 Registered: 10-2001 |
My two cents: I'm a non ferrari owner here and I like this list because the passion all the owners here have for their Ferraris. I share this passion with my Lotus and in this feel a kinship to the members in spite of being a non owner. The Yahoo Europa Group is the other community I belong to and is full of gear heads, which is great when I need technical help, like the technical section here. But they are not quite the passonate group that you all are here; at least they don't talk about it like you guys do. I'm positive my passion for my car is equal to all of yours for your Ferraris, and I feel like I can share that with all of you. But is my car 'better' than a Ferrari? Of course not, and I would be rude to come here and be saying a Lotus is better than a Ferrari. If any non Lotus owning Ferrari owner flamed Loti in my other group, they'd be laughed off the internet. Comparing a Supra or Porsche to a Ferrari is only interesting as an exercize in sports car statistics and has nothing to do with the nature of this community. While the arguing can sometimes be entertaining, I think it also generates too many bad feelings. If this were a 'General Sports Car' group than some of these posts would be more fitting. | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2002 |
Let's be honest, Ferrari has a pedigree that few cars can compete with, let alone match. I seriously love them, and the history and mystique that comes with them. Art: Likewise with Magoo, I hope my comments did not offend you; they were simply meant to demonstrate that I did not agree with the ricers abusing Ferrari's and their owners on this site. I appreciate how you and many others on this site had to work very hard for your cars, and I like to think of myself as a non-owner trying to follow in your footsteps. | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
Member Username: Eurocardoc Post Number: 270 Registered: 11-2001 |
When people contact me about the purchase of a Ferrari, I go to great lengths to help explain the mystique and passion of the marque. I have told many 308 buyers that the key to enjoying the car is to find a special "Sunday morning" piece of twisty highway, there they will grow to understand. The first kid that pulls alongside at a stop light will probably smoke you to the next light. The thrill is to put your nose in the air and drive off in the world's most recognised car marque, a symbol of your class. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 391 Registered: 6-2001 |
As an ex-Porsche owner (930 Targa) who now has a Ferrari: the performance issue is a non-issue, nobody ever drives his car on the street at anywhere near its performance level. A Porsche or Ferrari are about IMAGE. Period. If we all wanted something fast, we'd get motorcycles, their much faster than any of those cars, but they certainly have no IMAGE. I drive my 355 almost daily in the summer because I like the way it looks, I like it performance, and ever since I was a kid, I wanted a Ferrari. Is it the fastest thing on the road? Hell no, but the combination of style, speed, and handling are the best in the world, bar none. This is a Ferrari site. As one who had to earn the money to buy the car, I am somewhat put off by those who don't own one, or drive Daddies, who make comments about the Ferraris. Art | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2578 Registered: 2-2001 |
RMV, You certainly have. As I said, like a gentleman. Thanks for your honesty. BRGDS, | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 168 Registered: 3-2002 |
If a car is about image, will you be looked higher upon driving a 800hp decked out supra, a BMW or a carrera? What will the public's general responce be if you are looking to be seen? as every car enthuisist is. You might appeal to everyone if you are driving a porsche, yet only certain car guys if ur driving a rice burner. Also, While I feel that my opinions started a 160 something post thread of arguing, it is just my opinion, as everyone here has their own. IN my opinion, The main difference between the people who own ferrari's and the people who don't on this site and, correct me if im wrong, is that a ferrari owner defends their marque with their heart, with their feeling, with their passion. Not to pick on any one person here, but james dixon for example trys to use facts and logic to defend his argument. Ferrari owners feel passion and excitement like the owners of no other automobile (its true) so naturally the statements here are bouncing back and forth like cannons. But for non-ferrari owners reading this, this is what happens when a ferrari owners marque is attacked; we defend it with strong responses, and with offence being easily taken. | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2002 |
Magoo: I am not offended by your post and I am the first to admit that I am a 'rookie' on this site (as I am sure you were once upon a time). I also agree that this is a Ferrari site for Ferrari owners and enthusiasts and hence non-owners should not put crap on the members' marque of choice, i.e. Ferrari. I only mentioned Porsches because I thought that there were some unjustified criticisms of them in this thread. This was only my opinion. I was not the first person here to bring up Porsches. Moreover if Porsches had not been mentioned previously, I would not have mentioned them on this thread at all. As for the ricers, if I never hear or see another over the top Supra again, it will be too soon. It is not right for ricers to come on this overtly Ferrari site and knock Ferraris and their owners; I hope you do not think I was defending them or condoning this behaviour; if you were, you would be wrong. It's just that I did not want to see Porsche owners being put on the same heap as the ricers that can be offensive. Magoo, have I clarified my position? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2573 Registered: 2-2001 |
Doug, You and I have talked before so I want to say this is not to offend you either. It is not the guys who don't have Ferraris it is the guys who have RiceBurners and wish they had a Ferrari. As I said "Sour Grapes" is obvious in their remarks and it always ends up in "MY DOG IS BIGGER THAN YOUR DOG" type of conversation or thread. If they think they have the best in a Rice Burner then "ENJOY." Take it somewhere else or buy a Ferrari and join the site which is about Ferraris. BRGDS, Magoo | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2572 Registered: 2-2001 |
RMV. You have a total of 17 post here on the F.C. Now this is not meant to upset you but, unless you have gone into the archives and read some of the bullshit that is brought into the site by the Rice Burners then you wouldn't have a clue what these Ferrari guys put up with. The Toyota guys, they use the name Supra because it sounds better than Toyota, there is not a friendly conversation and it gets into a challenge type of disscussion. So a modified Rice Burner goes faster than a given Ferrari. These guys don't care. You are correct about one thing though. The Porsche guys are more of a gentleman group and they don't put out as much bullshit. However why even bring it up? This is a Ferrari chat line not a Porsche or a Rice Burner site. So if these guys want to comment, respect what site they are on. None of the Ferrari owners need that challenge bullshit. Get my drift????? BRGDS, | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 137 Registered: 2-2001 |
Come on Magoo, I think many Ferrari owners like sports cars in general. There are and have been several on this site that own other makes of sports cars and like them too. There are also many that would like to own one, but for certain reasons such as affordability or practically, they can't at the moment. Looking back through the posts, I don't think any individual ever made a derogatory comment toward Ferrari. So what, they said their car is faster, which is probably true. However, they still say that they would like a Ferrari and that is why they are at this site. But certain individuals made comments regarding their choices even though they don't own a Ferrari themself and are on their fathers "Dole". "I'm in grad school, I drive daddy's Ferrari, I have my own Honda(which Daddy probably pays for), and any of you that buys anything other than a Ferrai is crazy." I'm offended by that, and I'm sure that's why others have taken offense. If you look at the earlier posts, it is stated "why would people even settle for an Acura" and then questions if a 308 can be had with financing. Somebody that doesn't know a thing about buying and owning a car is telling us that we are making poor choices. | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'll just add my two cents; I'm not a fan of Supras and the like, but if one wants to drive one then go right ahead. I'm not sure people should personally attack each other on forums, but if you give it out, I suppose you have to have the backbone to take it when it gets returned. Personally, when I'm settled in my profession and of a certain income bracket, I would like to purchase a Ferrari, as it's my dream marque, second to none. But I also realise that Ferrari's can be difficult to use everyday not just because of maintetance or supposed unreliability, but because I would not wnat to just park it any where or risk some bozo running a red light and hitting me in it. I would rather have something more practical; something like a Porsche. I think you'll find a lot of Ferrari owners are ALSO Porsche owners. So I think the criticisms directed at the Porsche brand have been completely unjustified; they are awesome cars and the perfect stablemate to a Ferrari. The two brands are not mutually exclusive. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2568 Registered: 2-2001 |
I still can't figure why the Porsche and Toyota guys find the Ferrari site so interesting, they have to keep stirring up trouble. We guys here like our Ferraris and could give a damn less about the Toyota or Porsche posts. Instead of trying to prove how great your car is on this site why don't you tell it to one of your own on another site. You know what it is, It bugs you guys that you don't have a Ferrari and you have to find a way to knock it. Quit wasting your time because no matter what you say we know we have the greatest name in Sports cars in the world. We drive a Ferrari. Why don't you spring for a little extra cash and get one then you will know what Ferrari Passion is all about. You know you would love to have one. Ever hear of "Sour Grapes"? That's a disease you guys have. Cure your disease and get a Ferrari and maybe someone will listen. Until then your comments fall on ears that don't hear you and don't care. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Junior Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2002 |
WOW! I'm post # 150 on this marvelous thread! | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 136 Registered: 2-2001 |
Andrew, What planet are you on? You seem to put down anybody that buys a sports car that is not a Ferrari. By doing this you have insulted many readers here and people they know, myself included. If you don't like a particular car, say "I don't care for that car" instead of telling people their car sucks, their choices suck and they are idiots for making their choices. Also, tell me if I am wrong in saying that you don't even own a Ferrari. You drive a 4-cyl Honda and occasionally drive daddy's 355. I own a Porsche - I guess I have no passion. Bought a Chrys 300m and Jeep Grand Cherokee new - so I know noting about value. I sold my Ferrari last fall- so I must be an idiot. Not too sure where you stand on a DeTomaso Pantera- it has a Ford engine so it probably sucks also. Doug | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 163 Registered: 7-2001 |
I'm sure Chris doesn't take the immature and childish comments from Andrew personally. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 121 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris, I went back and read/scanned the entries in this thread. I have to say that I don't feel you have said anything to warrant any animosity towards you. I do think that your statistics on why we buy Ferraris are a little vague and fabricated, though. I have always wanted one and finally went through with it. And I have gone out of my way not to talk about my Ferrari outside of this website. Anyway, I think you'll agree that just about any car can be turned into a performer of some sort, given the proper engineering. But by going to bat for some of these others, you have put yourself in the firing line. The sides taken here apply to entirely different attitudes, obviously. I hope you understand that Ferrari lovers come here to share their passion for the marque, and why some may take offense, having felt challenged by what seem to be non Ferrari fans. I can honestly say that within this domain I have met some of the best, most interesting, helpful and open people around. Please don't assume negative things about Ferrari owners and enthusiasts. Remember, for this to have gotten out of hand required someone else to come in and stir it up. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 167 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris stop please, your making me all weepy | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2001 |
Okay I guess you're right, I am a joke I know nothing about cars because I have not spent the $250,000 on a Ferrari. Somehow I get the impression that you think you're better because you drive a Ferrari. You call me a Joke, you say I know nothing about engineerin when I have had more motors apart then most of you have seen, I will be attending MIT the top engineering school in the country. Andrew also said I cannot know the passion of Ferrari ownership because I do not have a Ferrari. Well if this is the pASSion I have to feel when I get a Ferrari, (condescending, personal attacking, and arrogant) I don't want the F-car, I'm bigger than that I'll stick to the BMW brick. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 158 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yes he certainly is. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2526 Registered: 2-2001 |
No Greg, You got that wrong, It should be "Is HE A JOKE OR WHAT"? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2399 Registered: 2-2001 |
It is the 348, I have the pic on my comp, just checked it out. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2398 Registered: 2-2001 |
The first one is Nick Scianna's twin turbo 348 engine I think. This engine that he did was around 600HP. The second one looks like a supercharged 308. What is the HP on the 308 greg? | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 179 Registered: 1-2002 |
Chris - if you are trying to say that the supra was Toyotas attempt to make a race car for the sreets you are mistaken. There was never any attempt to make the car a race car for the streets it was the after market tuners who made it a race car. Ferrari was a race car before a street car, Supra was a street car before a race car....there is a big difference here. Tim N - The picture JoeChristmas posted is I believe of a 348 twin turbo conversion that Nick out in washington did for some guy a while back. Walter Koenig also sells the same mod...basically makes your car faster than the F40 in a straight line. 0-60 3.9 I think I remeber and 1/4mi in 11.6 or something like that JoeChristmas - Do you know the man who ordered this conversion? | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2002 |
Another point to be made... in 10 years how much will supra's be worth? then compare what most Ferrari's will be worth. I love toyota as I own 2 but Ferrari builds art on wheels. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 757 Registered: 6-2001 |
What is the first pic of? thats some crazy exhaust routing. I bet it really heats up the engine bay. How did ur friend do that to the ferrari? Does the air enter the manifold fromthe bottom through the supercharger? | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 238 Registered: 3-2001 |
Check this out!!!! My friend's 308!!!!  | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 237 Registered: 3-2001 |
Since we are discussing modified cars. This should be on par.  | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 236 Registered: 3-2001 |
Hey Magoo do you believe this guy? Is this a joke or what? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2395 Registered: 2-2001 |
And comparing the F40 to the Supra, alright, one was designed probably ten years before as it would take Ferrari a lot longer than Toyota to develop a car (1987 release vs 1993 for the last Supra) especially since the Supra is an evolution of the earlier cars. Turbo charging is the closest substitute to cubic inches, I'll give you that much. Alright, Toyota is the greatest engine manufacturer of all time...alright... | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 102 Registered: 2-2002 |
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPP! ( a turbo supra ?) Vvvvvvvrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooommmmmmmss! (ha ha , music, a turbo Ferrari.) | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2001 |
"All in all it is a mute point if you all love your supras so much AWESOME. Great for you. But just brag up and down to us about how "great" the car is and how awesome toyota is for their manufactoring or it. Truth be told GM or any of the big three could do the same thing if they put their minds to building small liter displacement engines." Wow, anyone could have built a Ferrari, but they didn't. What makes a Ferrari special is that they took the ridiculous economic idea of making money off a race car for the road. Toyota tried building a race motor for the road and last I checked few have built a motor as good in comparison. Also it looks as though BIG manufacturers can beat Ferrari, remember GT40? Porsche? 80's F1 (hahahaha)? With the money some companies pour in they could beat a Ferrari in all respects, but what makes Ferrari and the Supra motor distinct is that those companies took the economic risk (ferrari did for over 50 years) and I'm sure everyone agrees it was the right thing to do even though the Supra failed. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2511 Registered: 2-2001 |
James, Your name was not in my comments. If it was my intention to say your name I would have. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 157 Registered: 7-2001 |
John, The picture of the car is at the bottom of this thread. Not my car though, belongs to Reg Reimer, who races it in the Once Lap of America. Still has the air conditioning and stereo, but all the other race goodies. He set up my car and mine is similar to his(suspension), but not as much power in the motor, as he has converted to a single turbo and mine still has the twins. | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2001 |
You're missing the point here about the Supra Motor. Toyota builds better Turbo motors than Ferrari (just please listen because honestly most of you have never had your Ferrari completely apart). The Supra motor is 3.0 liters. It can make 350hp/liter while running for over 100,000 miles because ...There is a supra that has beem running 880hp at the wheels without rebuild for ove 100,000 milse. As the many Ferrari's I've come across I've never seen one without a rebuild that lasted over 100k. A top Fuel dragster last 1/4 mile. Lets compare the F40 motor to the Supra motor. Technically the 2.9 of the Ferrari should get higher revs and therefore a better power. But F40 motors don't last nearly 100,000 miles at 650hp, thereby making the Supra motor better. Look strip down both motors do stress testing and i can garuntee which motor will be better suited to high boost levels. And last I checked Ferrari leads nothing in power levels: F1 BMW engines tromp the Ferrari's all day (900hp vs. 860). In street cars the Honda S2000 has a higher specific otput than any NA Ferrari ever made!!!! Ferrari's are not known for the best motors ever, they are known for their superior weight saving, aerodynamics, handling, braking, and styling, and winning. As we've stated big power doesn't mean the car is faster. I love Ferrari's, they are by far my favorite marque, but other companies do some things better, its just Ferrari does the best combination of everything. And please grow up, this is a Ferrari conversation and comparison, those who don't like it, don't read it. ( once again I don't mean to offend anyone) | ||
| z. b. (Cheeseman)
New member Username: Cheeseman Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey, has anyone noticed that the wing on that 400i is from a TOYOTA MR2 first gen? looks pretty good to me. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 178 Registered: 1-2002 |
James I never even noticed you had pictures of your car on the site...I was just making a general reference cause I saw some one with them on the way home from work. Just curious, if its a real race car cool, if not why in the hell do it. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 156 Registered: 7-2001 |
John, Those sticker are on the supra in the photo because it is a race car, with full sponsership from Toyota Canada and various other companies. I am sure you know, racing is not cheap and sponsership helps offset the exhorbitant costs associated with it. I would guess the kid at the gas station is lying as those companies would not sponser a street driven accord. The stickers come off the supra when it is on the street, and go back on for racing events such as the One Lap of America. James | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 176 Registered: 1-2002 |
Yep jack just like the lotus elise(sp)! Light weight/high hp....always a good combo | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have intentionally avoided this topic, but now that I've looked at it, it's all pretty ridiculous. I race Formula Mazda cars. On the race course at Gingerman, we lap about 20 sec. quicker than the Diablos on Lamborghini day. Our racers have about 160 hp vs. whatever the Lambos have. On the straights, we might hit 110-120mph, while the Bulls will reach 120-130. What does all that mean? Nothing, just like this entire argument! | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2002 |
I do have a question to all you tuner car guys out there...why in the hell do you put stickers all over your car?! it makes it look tackier than hell and like a nascar. There are so many stickers that I see on these rice rockets today that you can hardly tell what the original paint color is. I got in this argument with some kid that pulled into the gas station when I first got my ferrari and walked over and started bad mouthing my car and telling me all about his "awesome" 4-door honda accord! He said it was because he was sponsored by all the people whose stickers were on his car. What constitues being sponsored? Buying thier product?? I dont know how many companies sponsor kids on the street with coffee can mufflers. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bret I agree with you all these guys talking engines on here for the toyota one being the greatest in the world dont know what they are talking about! Its the only saying there is no substitute for cubic inches....Chris if you are talking about how powerful the supra block is what about the top fuel dragster blocks that handle 5000hp...I challenge you supra guys to beat that. All in all it is a mute point if you all love your supras so much AWESOME. Great for you. But just brag up and down to us about how "great" the car is and how awesome toyota is for their manufactoring or it. Truth be told GM or any of the big three could do the same thing if they put their minds to building small liter displacement engines. As far as the above engine technology that Chris was pointing out if toyota made the most powerful small displacement engines in the world why dont they have the most powerful engine in F1. If they are making the most powerful reliable engines in the world why are the GM Corvettes the winners in the GT class. I have said it before and will say it again this is FerrariChat, which my guess means that the converstation should be based around ferrari's. Now if I went to the rice rocket board and started preaching that ferrari was the best I would expect flack too....bottom line is I wouldnt do it cause I really dont want to because I am happy I own a ferrari and dont need to make everyone and their mom believe that its the greatest car in the world. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 155 Registered: 7-2001 |
Magoo, was that "leaving the site" comment directed towards me?? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2388 Registered: 2-2001 |
It's a totally different engine, I mean come on, are you serious. If a Toyota engine was 6 liters it wouldn't have a 350HP/liter ratio anymore. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? I'm not gonna touch the engine comment anymore because it's ridiculous beyond my comprehension. Any even though we marvel at the genius of a stock Toyota trans, it doesn't shine the shoes of a stock Corvette trans. There is always something bigger and better, remember that. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2503 Registered: 2-2001 |
James, some of the Rice Burners just don't know how to leave well enough alone on this Ferrari site. They keep on picking. They could go to the Rice Burner site where they wouldn't bother anybody. But that wouldn't be as much fun now would it? | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Junior Member Username: Markg Post Number: 168 Registered: 2-2001 |
I entered my car enthusiast days on Japanese cars -240Z, Datsun 510 and 1200 (worked at FAR Performance back then). Japanese technology and workmanship is second to none. BUT...a Ferrari is more a work of art than just a car. There are many cars out there that perform better and are more reliable than an "F" car, but are no where near as artistic or erotic as a Ferrari. For a combination of pure performance with reliability I would also go with a Supra, 'P' car etc. But when I want to drive Sex on Wheels, out comes the 308! | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2001 |
And you guys really should marvel at the Supra motor. Maybe what you don't realize is that 880hp at the wheels is about 1050 at th flywheel. And thats a specific output of 350 hp per liter. If the Ferrari testarossa could put out that power it would make 1750 hp, if a SMALL block chevy motor had that output it would make 1995hp so 1500hp from that Chevy engine isn't impressive at all compared with 1100 hp from the Supra, even more amazing the STOCK Transmission handles all of this torque and hp!!!!!!!! If Toyota had engineered the rest of the car like the motor this would have been suprachat.com (not made to offend anyone, I looked at getting a Supra for a really long time) | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ok, Everyone is getting defensive and quite frankly rude. You are attacking James Dixon personally now and I think thats purely wrong, its just an argument. As for the Stock Supra pulling past the 355 in a drag, well...It'd be close put it that way. C/D got 4.6 second 0-60 beating the 355, but hey its up to the driver at th point. The Supra is not a Ferrari we have long since esablished that. We are still on a Ferrari Topic but I think here's the basic things we've esatblished: Supra: Goods: Its more reliable, more comfortable, its easier to go faster in a straight line, absolutely bullet proof motor (if any of you have ever tested the limits of this block chances are yo didn't find them). Its got the generation X go fast styling and a huge aftermarket Bads: Its handling is acceptable but not great, its a pretty heavy car making it stable, its brakes do not compare to Ferrari, Opinion issues: Sound, Inline 6's with full boost sounds awesome but so does a Ferrari ina different way, Drieveability: Either one drives abot the same for a non spirited ride that tests no limits. Ferrari Pros: Heritage, Racing Career, Styling is timeless, resale value, excellent engineering, tons of power out of small NA engine, suspension gemoetery and handling as close to a racecar as possible, exclusive and therefore head turning more than the Supra. Cons: Maintenance Nightmare (Almost every other non hyperexotic car cost WAY less), don't last that long, a little rough ride, Costs more than a full DTM Race Car (exaggeration but close). Okay? I think this is a fair assessment. James Dixon drives a Supra because he thinks the pros andcons of a Ferrari outweigh those of a Ferrari, you all drive a Ferrari because you feel its pros ad cons outweigh other cars, it comes down to the indicidual of what he thinks is most important. Lets not attack each other personally, and lets not call each other's cars suped up econoboxes because James' is right in many ways. Many 328 owners have been complete A$$'s when they see me in a modded BMW, and its always tempting to show these 328 owners that their car is not the fastest, most reliable car every built which makes me go back to what I've been trying to say all along: Like and love your car for what it is. Ferrari's are awesome, Supra's are awesome, BMW's are awesome, Each has its own personallity and if everyone drove the same car it'd be boring and we wouldn't have these great arguments. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 139 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ya last time i checked this was ferrarichat.com maybe im imaginging it who knows...but hey James sorry if my last long post was rude but I have a stigma towards toyota's since your supra in my mind is nothing more then an economy car suped up..has fast and the furious all over it..yet with no ferrari style..which is against what this thread would suggest. Another point of owning a ferrari is exclusivity..do you turn heads with your supra? Just wondering on it..and if they are turned..for what reason is it.. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
New member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2002 |
I find it surprising that nobody got arround to mentioning the 1,000 HP dual turbo Testarossas. That seams to be fair competition wrt the 800 HP turdbo Supra. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 172 Registered: 1-2002 |
IS this suprachat.com, I swear it seems to be all I hear on here lately. James since you are so amazed that toyota makes a block that can handle 800hp, I would like to inform you that Chevy has been making V8's since the early 60's that you can put down over a 1000hp with. Just get a GM performance magazine and you can order factory directory blocks with crank, pistons, con-rods that will handle anywhere from 150 to 1500hp. Hell if you want the ZO6's block has been tested by Chevy to be able to handle well in excess of 1500hp. Just a little fyi | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 154 Registered: 7-2001 |
Andrew, Yes I have raced for a couple of car titles. I have won, but didn't take the car just asked to be reimbursed for my expenses for travel, tire wear. I have a problem with taking someone elses pride and joy. I have never raced for a ferrari. Due to the poor attitude and even worse choice of words by myself and various members on this thread, it is turning into a shameless display of childish rhetoric. I probably took some things personally that I shouldn't have, and others on here have done the same. I will start a new thread to post the pictures and possible video of my supra getting it's clock cleaned by the F40. At least that is what I think will happen, as the F40 is very light. I will try to get this guy to race from a roll on the highway to see if the supra can show it's rear end to the F car. James Dixon | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2002 |
Nothing personal guy and sorry to hurt your feelings. I still think you are a punk. If it makes you feel better I was a punk through college too. | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 99 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hum, Toby,,,,,,,,, Troll? And you drive a "Tundra 4X4" ....? (At least james has added some spice to this string. What have you added?) | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 153 Registered: 7-2001 |
Toby, perhaps you should do some research and type the brokers name into the "search" feature on this website. Then you can read all the wonderfull things your Ferrari brothers have said about him. Calling me a troll with a punk attitude is just mean  This is supposed to be fun, but I guess you just take things personally. Have Fun James | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 138 Registered: 3-2002 |
James where will your supra be 10 years from now? Probably in a juinkyard..and by the way that 288 gto conversion was not from a junkyard since ferrari's are never scrapped. And you mention that you race for car title? Well how come you dont have a ferrari now? Or did you have one before and sell it for some more cheap parts on your supra? When I think of your car I think of the fast and the furious supra...ya it looks nice..ya it was made from a heap of junk..and its in no way stock. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2382 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm a f*&^ing idiot, I should've bought a Supra instead, what was I thinking getting a used Ferrari. Ferrari wont be making 800hp street cars and neither will Toyota. There's a lot better chance of Ferrari doing it than Toyota though. We are comparing stock cars with heavily modified cars. Why not just say, oh race your Supra against a 333SP or why not the F1 car for that matter, they are Ferrari products that are unmodified. Let's compare apples to apples here and not be ridiculous. There are some unGodly fast modified Ferraris out there. Remember with the Ferrari you are going to start with a better chassis and being as engine mods are nearly limitless, this will make a big difference. It seems these debates are fruitless. Yes a Supra can be made faster than a Ferrari in a straight line for less than a stock Ferrari costs. This is no secret. Yes a Ferrari is a much cooler car to drive, this is also no secret. People spend a quarter of a million dollars for a reason. The supra is a cool car though, as I said before it's the only jap car I would drive. BUT it's not a Ferrari. I'm sorry, but it just simply is not. Maybe you don't want a Ferrari so this is good for you, but for those of us that do it is not. If sheer straight line speed is the criteria there are faster cars than either a Ferrari or a Supra. | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2002 |
my point is...its not your car..its your punk attitude. Wait 10 years and look back on your posts and you will hide your face in shame. you are a troll. Why would you think this car is a junkyard car? The source? I would hardly think the man who is brokering this car would take kindly to that comment. Do some research. Enjoy! | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 152 Registered: 7-2001 |
Toby, I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but,considering the source of that car, it wouldn't surprise me if it was salvaged from a junkyard. As to the wherabouts of my car in 10 years. I don't imagine Ferrari will be making 800hp streetcars, so it will still be doing the same thing......beating Ferraris on the street. Have fun, James Dixon [email protected] | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2002 |
Check out this modified Ferrari. Mr. Supra guy...nice car but its BUTT UGLY! Another point...Where will your car be in 10 years? A junkyard? Where will most Ferrari's be? http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/34555/34555a.html | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 151 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ken, I am really excited about this. I knew there was an F40 in this city (Calgary, Alberta) and last week I was drving home and pulled up beside a silver E55. I did'nt know the driver, but the passenger was a friend of mine who is an exotic car broker. To make a long story short, my friend contacted me, and the owner of the benz is also the guy who owns the F40 and he wants to race, legally at the track. I guess my friend was telling him how fast my supra was and he is keen to see it. I am going to get it on video with lots of photos to post on this site. James | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 339 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hey James, let us know how the race with the F 40 goes. I think you should race twice, the second heat switch cars. Should be interesting. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 150 Registered: 7-2001 |
Andrew, "you keep on referring to your supra or whatever car you have being able to out race any ferrari out there" Would you mind posting a link to where I said I could out race ANY Ferrari?? I said I would race a 328GTS and also mentioned that I did race a 360. There is a guy in town with an F40 that wants to race me in a couple of weeks in the 1/4 at the local track. I don't like 1/4 mile racing, but will do it so I can meet him and get a ride in the car. Don't know who will win, but it should be close. "but the bottom line is that your supra probably doesnt have a single original engine part in it (smirk)" Actually, the only non-stock engine parts on the car are the turbos, exhaust,cam gears, wastegate and blow-off valve. The head is stock, but ported. The bottom end is completley stock. Try running that kind of boost by just changing those same parts on an F40 or 288GTO and see what happens. My prediction would be a big BOOOOOOM with an expensive repair bill. "I ask you to get a car that was made for what you want it to do." I did, it gets me from A to B, it's reliable, it's cheap to service, and it has lots of power "ferrari's were actually made for what you want your supra to do." Are you sure about that??? They are not reliable, they are not cheap to service and they don't make a lot of power. "Ferrari owners don't have to modify the hell out of their car" They couldn't do it even if they wanted to. They have to wait long enough to get stock, replacement parts. I can imagine getting some hand built, custom part from Norwood would be a nightmare. "Anyways you can put 800hp on a supra but is that the way it was designed? I think not" True, but you see Andrew, this is all a part of the game. You buy a car, you learn how it works, you learn how to make more power. Do you actually think that all car manufacturers would not be producing cars with more power if they could?? They are unable to produce them due to government regulations that both you and I would never understand. The fact that Toyota can make a stock block with enough strength to hold 800hp is an treat in itself. "So if you drive a car like a supra that has no original engine parts" See above "One thing your afraid to ask is for a stock supra to race a stock ferrari. So why havent you asked? are you afraid? Hmm?" Ok, since your father supposedly owns a 355 lets do it. I have access to a completely stock 1997 supra, and I am asking to race your fathers 355 in the 1/4 mile. If your dads car has a tubi, then I get to put an exhaust on the supra. Everything on the car will be stock. I will ,however, be pulling off a couple of small little hoses connected to the wastegate. But that should not be a problem, because no aftermarket parts have been used. As ususal, I will transport my car down to your city, and will be asking that lawyers write up an agreement. In the past, I have asked to race for the registration on the cars, but since your daddys ferrari is worth much more than my supra, lets settle on $15,000 CAD. C'mon Andrew, the supra only has 320hp vs the 384hp of your dads car. The ball is in your court. "Now I have been waiting for you to compare the sound of a supra to the sound of a ferrari but since you haven't I'll do it for you." C'mon Andrew, that would be a losing battle for me. NOTHING sounds better than a 355 with a tubi. "Now I have heard a supra .frankly I think it sounds just awful" Of course you do, but only because it's not a Ferrari "but some on..all you talk about is acceleration and the quartermile right?" Wrong, I have stated many times that I prefer road racing, but acceleration numbers dont lie. "Also for how expensive ferrari's are to maintain..people who own a ferrari pay the costs with a smile on their face, and laber rates for ferrari's are so high because people ACTUALLY PAY IT" hahahahahahahaha, that was funny Andrew. All the voices in my head are laughing at that one. Not only do you sound like an idiot, but you have also insulted many Ferrari owners on this board who refuse to suscribe to that theory. "and unlike the gas station you take your supra too, ferrari mechanics don't have to compete with thousands of places accross the country because they are in a league of their own with service, quality, heritage, looks, sounds, exclusivity, and the best formula 1 racing team on the planet backing them up." Andrew, I don't know how to put this in a nice way, but you are Ferrari's gimp. The fact that you truly believe this is enough evidence to determine that you are just another lemming, waiting to follow all the other Ferrari lemmings in this world off a cliff. This IS some good talk with a bunch of car enthusiasts. Unfortunatly, you don't seem to be one. You are a Ferrari poseur. Lets see if you make do on the stock supra vs stock Ferrari race. To the rest of the board members and Rob Lay. I apologize for this. You may think differently, but I don't come on here to pick fights and promote other cars on your Ferrari website. I like Ferraris just as much as the rest of you (heck, I even convinced my dad to buy a 355). I stick up for Ferraris when non-factual bashing occurs on the supra website, and will continue to do so for other car marques on this site, until Rob bans me | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2002 |
It's funny isn't it? There is no question that the kit cars are far superior to the real thing. Just the fact that the tube frame is 35 years old must change the dynamics a lot. The copyright lawyers on this site probably use the Cobra thing as justification for the work they do. Shelby really blew it when he didn't take legal action twenty years ago. Now he is doing it after the damage has already been done. Kit Cars and the real thing are lumped generically into the 'Cobra' basket just like facial tissues are all called Kleenex. On the Ferrari front, if a classic car doesn't have the correct engine it's not worth as much as one that does. I looked at a 250 LM at Symbolic once that had basically burned to the ground. It had the wrong engine and the body had been replaced. Bill Noon said that they once had the remains of the original body but it was cheaper to just build a new one. In those days originality was not as highly valued. As a result this 'remake' was probably sold for about $550,000 (he had just dropped the price from $900k to $600k when I talked to him). Other 250 LM's were going for $2 million plus. Ford GT's and Cobras, on the other hand, almost never have the original engine. Most Ford GT originally had 289's, but most now have 302's. Sure, they are Ford's, but why not value originality for it's own sake? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2373 Registered: 2-2001 |
It's weird with the whole thing. They aren't real Cobras at all which takes away a lot and they lose that whole mystique of Shelby in a large sense. But there the only replica I can think of where the replicas are in most cases better than the original cars (reliability, performance, etc). A real Cobra is out of this world though, it's just as good as an old Ferrari, well almost. But like an old Ferrari, so expensive. Too expensive to work over, mod, personalize, and stuff which is why replicas are attractive. If people were making Ferrari replicas that could wax an F50 there would be a very different look at them. I think we would still hate them, but respect them more. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bret: You're right. I wasn't defending rice rockets over Kit Car Cobra's at all (although my daily driver is an Acura TL Type S). I think I agreed with you on the pure performance thing near the end of my post. Elsewhere on this forum there is a discussion about replica Ferrari's and the damage they do to a car's image. The Cobra is the worst example of what can happen when the replica thing goes unchecked. I was reacting to the fact that you seem to consider the real Cobras and the kit cars to be one and the same. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2002 |
James Dixon, you keep on referring to your supra or whatever car you have being able to out race any ferrari out there, but the bottom line is that your supra probably doesnt have a single original engine part in it (smirk). I ask you to get a car that was made for what you want it to do. Also with your statement of ferrari's being expensive, hard to service, their lack of power, I say that unlike your supra, (which seems like a half-a$$ed attempt to make a sports car) ferrari's were actually made for what you want your supra to do. Ferrari owners don't have to modify the hell out of their car, because a ferrari itself makes it own statement, one other companies are trying, but failing to match. Now with me being an italian..I take pride in what my people can produce. So since I like cars, naturally I like the best, and the best is ferrari. Anyways you can put 800hp on a supra but is that the way it was designed? I think not. So if you drive a car like a supra that has no original engine parts..yes you will beat a ferrari, (which by the way would be completly stock, except for a tubi) Can you say that about your supra? One thing your afraid to ask is for a stock supra to race a stock ferrari. So why havent you asked? are you afraid? Hmm? Now I have been waiting for you to compare the sound of a supra to the sound of a ferrari but since you haven't I'll do it for you. Now I have heard a supra .frankly I think it sounds just awful.. The sound is almost as repulsing as those cheap suzuki motercycles I see outside my house all the time here... and yes your supra probably has more growl or umph to it..but some on..all you talk about is acceleration and the quartermile right? Bottom line is supra's are noise to my ears. And I don't like noise. Also for how expensive ferrari's are to maintain..people who own a ferrari pay the costs with a smile on their face, and laber rates for ferrari's are so high because people ACTUALLY PAY IT..and unlike the gas station you take your supra too, ferrari mechanics don't have to compete with thousands of places accross the country because they are in a league of their own with service, quality, heritage, looks, sounds, exclusivity, and the best formula 1 racing team on the planet backing them up. The only company which even comes remotely close to ferrari in this sence is porsche..which is a distant second..Toyota im afraid is way in the back of the line on this one. You can put ferrari's down all you want..but the bottom line is you don't have much to brag about yourself, and as you say " This is just some good old fashioned car talk with a bunch of car enthusiasts." so lets take it as that. My 2 cents | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2001 |
c'mon Magoo, no need to get you panties in a twist. You should be having as much fun with this as I am. I know that my supra is not the best car around, and you should know that your Ferrari is not the best either. This is just some good old fashioned car talk with a bunch of car enthusiasts. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2492 Registered: 2-2001 |
John, You are not ignoring enough it is still there. | ||
| Michael Hughes (Mike_hughes)
New member Username: Mike_hughes Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'd say the biggest Formula 1 influence on Honda's road cars is high-revs and their variable valve timing scheme, VTEC... Which don't really do much except make a loud buzzing noise and increase naturally aspirated specific output ratios on small motors - two things I don't really care about on a road car. I do like Ferrari's sequential transmissions and suspension design, though, which are very impressive. I wish other manufacturers would put the same kind of race emphasis into their road cars. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2481 Registered: 2-2001 |
John, Ignore it and maybe it will go away. | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hum, TRD,,,,,,,, TURD? I never would have thought of that. (Thanks mike for the clarification.) Maybe I can get a little more help here. I thought F1 was all about building a better road car. Isn't that why all of those Honda/Acura RSR's were built? And the NSX has F1 technology in it. (I like the NSX's Titanium rods.) What would Enzo say? | ||
| Michael Hughes (Mike_hughes)
New member Username: Mike_hughes Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2002 |
John Stecher, please re-read my post a couple times. Anyone who asks how you pronounce "TRD" is obviously making a toungue-in-cheek reference to the possible (mis)pronunciation as "Turd". I'm sorry I didn't make it obvious enough for you to understand. My compositional skills aren't the best. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 170 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bret you are damn right! Cobra kit cars are wickedly fast, they are by far the funnest car in the world to go buzzing from stop light to stop light. But I wouldnt trade me 348 for one in a million years :0) | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 169 Registered: 1-2002 |
Thanks Magoo I'm just sick of reading all this crap on the board. Thanks Mike Hughes for propagating knowledge and enthusiasm about how great Supras are and your great generalization of all of us Ferrari owners as being Turds. I am grateful! Wasnt there a post on here like 2 months back warning us of the coming Supra/Import chat sessions and bashing of all things Ferrari. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2362 Registered: 2-2001 |
Andrew I would get a Cobra before a Supra, etc, but obviously not before the Fcar. Bill my point is pure performance here. You obviously care nothing about history, mystique, etc if you're buying a Toyota Supra, Acura NSC, etc. A 514 CI is simply a bored and stroked big block 427 Cobra (you could turn it into any CI within the tolerances of a big block, 514 was just my example as I saw one recently). It seems ironic that now we are using some sort of anti-historical argument when comparing it to these rice rockets. How can that defend them? Do they have a mystique greater than a replica Cobra? And as far as the thrown together in someone's garage...Since when did Toyota roll a Supra off the factory line with 800hp? Isn't it too thrown together in someone's garage. The bottom line is in a straight drag race you are not going to beat a Cobra replica. I can't think of any lighter cars that you could fit such overwhelming HP in, and it all boils down to weight vs HP. | ||
| Michael Hughes (Mike_hughes)
New member Username: Mike_hughes Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2002 |
"How do you pronounce TRD?" I certainly hope this is a joke; how do you pronounce FBI and CIA? Fibby? Seeya? Turd? I hope your gas tank isn't as dry as your sense of humor. I'm responding here to try to propagate knowledge and enthusiasm, not to convince anyone of anything (which is clearly impossible). Formula 1 really doesn't have anything with who builds a better road car. And to even make an argument like that, you must first clarify your definition of "better". McLaren is routinely dominated by Ferrari in Formula 1, but who makes the "better", faster, exotic and more expensive road car? And just because you don't know about the history, heritage, and whatnot of Japanese automobiles (versus your obviously thorough knowledge of Italian makes. Japanese, German, and Italian automobile manufacturers all have similar heritage - remember WWII?) does not negate anything. Just food for thought. I hope you Ferrari guys don't get your panties in a knot over this. Don't get all insecure now; everyone knows about Ferrari and it's legacy. Nobody is questioning anybody's manhood here. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
New member Username: Davem Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2002 |
Thanx Ed, was worried about taking thread hostage, but then realized it's way past.... Wheel's are 16" OZ racing shod with yoko avs' came with car luckily no searching for trx's. Had a time deciding cab are coupe but knew i wanted black for a Mondial, especially on any pre 3.2 model, so when i saw this i grabbed it. Look forward to hearing from you. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2474 Registered: 2-2001 |
John, I do believe you just told it like it is. Good goin'. We don't need negative remarks from Rice Burners to take up time here. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Junior Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 167 Registered: 1-2002 |
I dont get why all the Supra and other guys are here bragging about how great their car is....my question is "Who the hell cares?" I dont know if you are trying to fan the flames of us Ferrari owners by telling us your car is better than ours, or gratifying yourself by letting us know over and over and over again that your car puts down 880hp at the rear wheels. BIG DAMN DEAL I have a drag car that runs sub 6 sec quarter miles does anyone care...no! If you want to bash Ferrari and everyone else please dont due it on this board, its for Ferrari enthusiast who love the company and cars even if they only do put down a lowly 200hp. Hell I mean if you want to argue who has the best car bottom line Toyota or Ferrari take a little look at who leads the F1 standings, that will answer all your questions right there. Bottom line let us enjoy our cars and have useful conversation on our FERRARI chat board with out having to consistently respond to your post about how great your *file in name* car is. | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 95 Registered: 2-2002 |
D.J., Just saw your profile. Wow, That's my car,,,,, with a hard top. ( I could have used that top last week here in Dallas,,,,, 3" of rain,,, lucky,my top only leaks a few drips a minute, on the passenger seat.) Wow, I like your (my) car. Nice wheels too. 16"? (I'll bet you have to constantly wipe drool off of it.) Hey, and I thought this string was dead after the First day? We were supposed to be pokeing fun at a Low-custom 400i, but we have spanned out to include Supra Owners. ( I hope they know it's all in fun.) My car? I will email you. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
New member Username: Davem Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hi Ed Salla. Curious if you could share with me the mods made to your Mondial. I just bought an 83 Euro QV a month ago an would appreciate any help. 350 horsies sounds fun, concerned about realiability, cost an how usable it is? Thanx in advance | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
New member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2002 |
How can it be interpreted that the "General Ferrari Discussion" area of the FerrariChat forum is for general sports car talk? I just don't get that at all; this forum is *clearly* for Ferrari talk... I'm not a Ferrari owner (as I've said, I drive an NSX), but I enjoy reading about Ferraris. I don't understand what the point is with the page long posts trying to convince Ferrari owners how worthy your car is. It just makes no sense to me. If you are secure in the knowledge that you are driving an engineering marvel, then you shouldn't feel the need to constantly prove it... It seems like there are always people who seek out *car specific* forums with the sole intent of passing judgement on the owners of that car and convincing them that other cars are "just as good" or "even better". What is it you expect to hear? "You're right, your *insert other car here* really is a worthy competitor to my Ferrari. I salute it!" Why is it so important to hear that from the owner of a *different* car? Validating your purchase choice is what your OWN car forum is for. Just let it alone... | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ken, (Nice car) Before I found my Mondial Cab. I was gonna get a Lotus Europa Twin Cam JPS. Because of the looks and the handeling. But,,, I'm glad I got my Ferrari. Because of the looks and the handeling. But, I never even considered a Supra. Looked like a Corvette. (copy?) I would rather have a Corvette ZR-1, or that callaway. Frankly, I'm a little confused by all this chatter about Supras in a Ferrari Chat room. And, how do you pronounce "TRD".......? | ||
| Michael Hughes (Mike_hughes)
New member Username: Mike_hughes Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2002 |
Standard disclaimer: I drive a twin turbo Supra and not a Ferrari. This is one of my first visits to Ferrarichat.com, and quite frankly, I'm a little disappointed in what I'm seeing. Specifically, I am wondering how much misinformation and uncertainty can come from the mouths (or keyboards) of such high-class people. Obviously, I realize that Ferrari owners have better things to do than look up the stats on all cars out there (financial security does not come from being a car junkie, after all), but saying things like a Supra weighs 3800LBS and can't handle... is a little absurd for educated people. And since when has exclusivity determine the performance value or desirability of a car? How much is an original Ford Model T worth? Is it exclusive? Can it perform? Is it desirable by the general populace for anything else other than monetary value and/or novelty? Yes, Ferrari dominates at F1, but there are many other racing leagues that Ferrari does not excel in, or even compete in as factory-backed efforts. A Blitz-modified turbo Supra held the roadgoing-car lap record at Nurburgring for quite some time in the '90s. I believe that record has now been taken over by a tuned Porsche. Supras can handle just fine with the right driver. I suggest you read some of the reviews of the '93 Turbo Supra by the major auto manufacturers. They praise the handling and braking of the Supra moreso than the raw power (320HP was a lot in '93. For a Toyota). In one racing league (JGTC), Ferraris compete in the GT300 class with MR2 Spyders and routinely get worked by all the imports. All cars are heavily tuned. I won't mention the GT500 class. But in the end, Toyota is indeed just a motor car company (although it does have a racing branch that extends into many racing genres [JGTC, CART, F1, Drag racing, Rally, Baja, etc, etc.]), not a racing team, and its first attempt at building a powerful GT car should be respected for what it is. And if you happen to run into a modified one on the street - you better hold on to your prancing horses, cause that ain't no Honda NSX Supra owners care very little about exclusivity compared to performance numbers. That's what separates us from the riceboys on one end of the spectrum and the P-car and Ferrari drivers on the other end of the spectrum. Many Supra drivers have engineering/technical jobs and not executive positions... and it is reflected in their choice of cars. And as far as autocross, there are vehicles that basically amount to $3000 go-karts beating Ferraris and Miatas beating Vipers. It's a driver's sport. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 148 Registered: 7-2001 |
Chris, No offense taken, I hope you are having as much fun with this as I am. "You come across as though you think the Supra is a best fastest car in your first post, and by blowing past this Ferrari it makes you feel better." My comment about beating the 360 spyder was just to stir the pot on here. I really don't car what cars I beat on the street as I am not a drag racer, and don't particularly like street racing. But the passenger was shouting his mouth off about something, so I decided to let him hear my dual HKS blow-off valves to shut him up. I don't think the supra is the best car in the world, it's far from it. If I had my choice, I would be driving a 911 turbo, as I feel they offer the best opportunity for big power, amazing handling, and reliability that, isn't as good as the japanese cars, but much, much better than Ferraris. The Ferrari's are good, but too expensive to buy, too expensive to maintain, too long to wait for servicing, too little aftermarket support and too little power. The NSX is great in handling and looks, but not enough power for me, even with the comptech supercharger kit. I have already gone down the mustang route, they are great for track car when you have the Griggs suspension stuff, and parts are cheap too, but the interiors suck, and the are asthetically unappealing. I did explore getting an M3 and putting the Dinan charger on it, as the M3's I had driven were a little underpowered but handled great. I really wanted to get a Euro M3 with ('97-'99) with the 320hp as there are no emmisions laws here, but they were too expensive, and getting a 240hp car was not cheap either. For the same price I was able to get my '98 supra with only 14,000km on it. So for me, in my current financial situation, the supra provided everything I wanted (looks, power, reliability, rarity) but it is not as small and nimble as I wanted it to be, but 4/5 isn't bad. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2001 |
Chris, "its obvious you've never been on the track cause last I checked an 89' BMW M3 raped a 650hp Supra right in front of my eyes and a 328 killed it too. " So I guess you forgot to mention that the '89 M3 was a race prepped car, or is that a different call altogether??? "Thats the main problem with everyone on this list, they want their car to be something it isn't" Wrong.... I know my supra will never be a Ferrari, but I am offering to show you that my supra will rock'n roll the stock '89 M3 or the 328GTS that was racing the other day. Let me know if you are interested in this race with my supra vs a stock m3 or a 328GTS, and I will make the necessary arrangments to meet up with you. If you want to bring your buddies '89 M3 GTR, thats cool too. I will ask my friend if he is interested in a similar deal,as he drives a 700rwhp 930 slantnose that is a daily driven street car with all the suspension goodies. let me know, James Dixon [email protected] or you can phone me at 403-397-7319 | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2001 |
In case I offended anyone I didn't mean too, I just want to get a across a point I think is important. You're car should suit you and does. I am not saying oh my cars faster blah blah blah...I am trying to say like it for what it is. You come across as though you think the Supra is a best fastest car in your first post, and by blowing past this Ferrari it makes you feel better. You also seem to think that roasting me on the track will make you're better. I still love Supra's and NSX's and Ferrari's all of these cars appeal to me. Some are better in some respects and others in other respects but speed is basically money. It all depends how fast you want to go... | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2001 |
Unless you've extensively gutted it, the Supra weighs in at around 3800lbs, I had one on the scales about 2 saturdays ago, also put in on the dyno. It made 880hp at the rear wheels. Its got a built motor of course and tons of goodies which add up to about $65,000 into the car. Its in Richmond Va, and its silver with a Stillen decal. Other than that it looks bone stock. ANd if you're so confident you can beat me on the track I'll take my good buds 1989 M3 GTR with around 330hp and we'll go to the local autocross track in order to show you what turning is. One lap of America favors high horsepower cars as it shows in the final standings. If I want a car with tons of power I would have gotten a supra TT, I came very close to buying one, then I saw it get raped competely. Toyota can build amazing motors but talk to any guy down at our local race shop what they'd rather have a built Supra or the BMW, everyone asks for the BMW, and here's more proof. The guy who built this Supra's motor, says he won't drive the car after he's been in it once, its an attrocity and a waste of a good motor. THe owner of the shop who has raced at nearly every track chose to burn 60,000 on a new BMW M3 and uprgrades than buy a Supra. They Supra TT was around the same price as the M3 yet it sold far fewer and died. Has anyone ever won any Le Mans titles in a Supra? Has the Supra ever gained a Best handling Car in America award? Look, like you're Supra for what it is. Its an comfy GT car wih tons of power and an awesome motor. Its doesn't turn, you're not going to convince me it does, because it doesn't. It doesn't win any race that doesn't involve huge straight lines. Thats themain problem with everyone on this list, they want their car to be something it isn't. My BMW isn't sytlish, it looks like a brick (Oh yeah and to the other post its got around 300hp after extensive mods so itsset up faster than a Canadian M3), and its very uncomfortable on long trips. To put it this way BMW's aren't the fastst, most stylish, or most convenient cars. They're the best combo of convenient and fast. Ferrari's are the best combo of stylish, fast, and exlusive. Supra's are the best combo of low price, excellent reliability and Stylish, and fast, with a sacrifice in handling. Like it for what it is and love it because you have an awesome car and you chose to compromise some aspects because it fits you better. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 335 Registered: 10-2001 |
I do try to restrict my posts to the Ferrari theme but I ask the indulgence of everyone when I get off on a tangent.... There are two major types of Europa: the Renault engine S1 and S2, and the Twin Cams which have the Lotus TC head and Ford Cosworth block, usually 1580 CC. These develop between 105 and 125 HP depending on the valve size, carbs and who you read. Mine is supposed to be 117 HP but with a few tweaks I probably am making about 125. For a 1500 pound car it makes for an amazing power to weight ratio. In ASP autocross, Europas are up against lots of Ferraris, Vipers, RX7's, you name it. With a competent driver they do quite well, in fact they frequently win. Mine will do 0-60 in about 7 sec if I stress it so I'm not about to blow off any Ferrari in a drag race or anyone else for that matter. I appriciate the sentiment expressed so often here that a Ferrari is not the car to buy if that's what you're after. It's the handling that makes it a true sports car. I have a notion the Supra may be just too quick for me but maybe not to the extent you would think. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2002 |
I thought the europa had like 60hp? Just wondering | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1444 Registered: 12-2000 |
This site's focus should be Ferrari. However, sometimes we don't always focus and that's fine. If you want to talk about cars in general all the time, then there's a million boards for that. This board is for 95% Ferrari talk. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 544 Registered: 9-2001 |
Im lost, I can't figure out who is arguing with who - oh well | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2002 |
Right on Nick. It is so true that to be vain and to be an a$$ are two different things. (Also, if you come across a two year old that needs a spanking. Please Spank-em.) Too bad NSX's are not usually welcome inside the velvet rope. (When none of my Ferrari friends are looking, I'll give you a thumbs up.) | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 146 Registered: 7-2001 |
Well said Nick, I like all cars from cheap mustangs to high dollar Ferraris. Each car has something about that makes it better than another, be it better hp per dollar ratio, better looks, sound, handing, ease of mods and reliability. I don't come on this site just to pick fights, but to learn about Ferraris and peoples experices with them. I choose to buy a Supra because, for me, it filled all the criteria of what I wanted in a car. Sure it doesn't get the attention a Ferrari draws, but it is much faster and more reliable, which is important to me. BTW, those NSX's are wicked to drive and look great, even after all these years. Chris Coleman..... After re-reading your post, I noticed you drive a 1995 M3. Is this a US based car or a Canadian car??? My girlfriends father used to have the Canadian version and it had 280hp vs the 240 of the US version. That car was fast!!! Too bad they didn't bring over the Euro version to Canada for the following years. I guess us Canadians got the better end of the deal for once. | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
New member Username: Nsxnick Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2001 |
correct me if i'm wrong.. but this is not a ferrari owners' site. i come here because i enjoy reading about sports cars in general. i also frequent the viper, porsche, and nsx forums. i have respect for each one of these cars. some of you claim to be auto enthusiasts when all you really are is a narrow minded stuck up ferrari owner. please don't get all worked up if this doesn't apply to you. i am a proud nsx owner... one who doesn't feel the need to put down anyone else's pride and joy. but if i were to insult a ferrari in an open forum (which this happens to be) would you not attempt to defend it? i think that is what many of the non ferrari owners were doing below... perhaps not in the most tactful manner. i, like most exotic car owners, am vain... else i would've bought an accord. however, being vain and being an a$$ are two entirely different things. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 145 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ken, I have not had any personal experience with a Europa, but have watched various videos and read numerous articles about them and their amazing handling. I am not sure if you are familar with how the One Lap of America works, but you basically drive across the USA to various race tracks, so I am sure that there are a couple of tracks that would well suit the europa. The Ferraris did quite well on the tracks, but were having problems breaking down while being driven from one track to the other, as no trailering of the cars is allowed. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 334 Registered: 10-2001 |
Good thing a Lotus Europa didn't show up; it would have kicked everyone's butts with all of its 120 HP. If the turns were tight enough and the straights short enough that is! *S* | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2001 |
Chris, You seem to be very confident as to the poor performance of the supra on the track. I am not claiming, or have never claimed, that the supra is a road course machine. But it will hold it's own on the track. If you are so confident that a 1989 M3 or a stock 328 GTS will rock a 650hp supra on the track, I am fair game, ANY TIME!!!! I have said this before on this site....lets get one of the lawyers on here to write up a legal agreement, and i will ship my car down to your local racetrack, and race against the two cars. If I lose, I sign over registration of my car to you, If I win, I take your car (or in this case, some cash, $10,000 CAD sounds fair to me). I am not trying to be cocky or arrogant, just competitive. Just so you know, the supra weighs 3450 pounds, not 3800. BTW, I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Home of supra tuner ,Reg Reimer, who races his supra in the One Lap of America, and my car is set up almost identical to his. He has finished 7th place or better for the past 6 years. Here are the results from the 2000 race where he beat both the Henessy Viper and the Lingenfelter Vette. Just so you know, 3 Ferraris (512BB, 355, 348 challenge) were entered in that race in 2000, but all of them had reliability problems and were unable to finish. Cumulative Overall Points as of - Sat May 13 17:33:48 2000 Page 1 Results sorted by position Pos Car # Vehicle Class Points 1. 10 Dodge Viper SSGT1 8340 Brian Smith, Spencer Geswein 2. 6 Mercedes-Benz RennTech SL600 SSGT1 8150 Dan Kary DO, Paul Gerrard 3. 7 Chevrolet Mallett Corvett SSGT1 8025 Jim Minneker, Chuck Mallett 4. 18 Toyota Supra Turbo SSGT1 7990 Emmanuel Crouvisier, Reg Riemer 5. 17 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 SSGT1 7930 Reed Kryder, John Bender 6. 8 Dodge Viper Venom 650 SSGT1 7880 John Hennessey, Sean Roe 7. 28 Lingenfelter Corvette SSGT1 7640 Robert Renc, Ron Kline Let me know if you are interested, Chris. My last exam is next week, so once the contract is signed, I will begin making arrangments to have my car transported. Let me know, [email protected] or you can call me at 403-397-7319  | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 121 Registered: 3-2002 |
BretM you make a point about hp vs. maintence costs and the ratio seems pretty nice on a cobra but if you wanted a cobra you would of gotten one..not a ferrari... my 2 cents | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 87 Registered: 2-2002 |
I don't know, Bret. I think you are stretching the envelope of reality way past the breaking point. Kit Cars and Cobras are two different things. A Cobra with a 514 cubic inch anything that was built in someones garage in 2002 is hardly the same as a Cobra that was assembled in a factory near Los Angeles in 1965. As WHart says, you are comparing Apples and Germany. I happen to be a huge Cobra and GT 40 fan because I grew up in Dearborn in the sixties and one of the kids from my school's father owned Kar Kraft where they assembled some of the later GT 40's. So I'm not taking the Ferrari bias here. Nothing against Cobra kit cars, some are awesome and a close friend is building one as we speak. I agree with you that from a pure performance standpoint you can build an American-engined beast in your garage that will yank your testicles out through your nose and leave a brown streak on the pavement. I think that is the real point you were trying to make. BTW, I used to work for a guy named Max Muhlemann who was the PR guy for Shelby American and then later was General Manager of All American Racers when Dan Gurney was running the Eagles in F-1. Max told a story about the last days at Shelby American. it seems that Shelby called his top lieutenants into a room and started talking about the backlog of unsold Cobras he had to get rid of. Everyone expected him to give them one. then he burst their bubbles by offering to sell one to them at a ridiculously low price. Everyone was so offended that all refused the offer. To this day, they regularly kick themselves in the butt for being so foolish. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 333 Registered: 10-2001 |
Cobras are cool but Ferraris look a lot better; every time I see a Cobra I think 'kit car'; every time I see a Ferrari I think, "Cool!" | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2434 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ed I guess when it comes right down to it we just ain't rational. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2347 Registered: 2-2001 |
There is a reason why Cobra is still the only company to beat Ferrari at its best in a company vs company all out war. And note I said best so as not to insue a slew of circa 1980s facts about Honda engines, etc. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2346 Registered: 2-2001 |
After seeing a 427 Cobra yesterday I am motivated to once again remind these people that they too can have a true AMERICAN car that will rape anything on the road in a straight line. What will beat a 650HP NA 514CI 427 Cobra which weighs what, maybe 2200lbs(and you can still get the real ones from Shelby, but my opinion better to get a replica as they are half the price and probably better). And for those that tromp around, oh 1100hp 2 liter Skylines, etc. What do you think happens when you supercharge a 514? What would you do with the 2000lb 1000HP car that you would have? There's no substitute for CI, especially this overwhelming a difference. And besides all this, even joe blow, toothless mechanic can keep an American engine running. Can your average hick keep a 40lb boost, turbo timed, blah blah blah car running. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1084 Registered: 2-2001 |
I guess their cars are so dependable that they have nothing else to do. I, on the other hand can always find something to work on that needs to be done. It's not just a career, it's an adventure. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2428 Registered: 2-2001 |
You know Ed, It blows my mind why these people who are so negative about Ferrari even take the time to post here. What do you think? Nothing better to do or what? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1081 Registered: 2-2001 |
A BMW may beat me from point "A" to point "B", but when we get there the BMW is still ugly. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 218 Registered: 12-2001 |
If i wanted straight line speed for the dollar, good quality paint jobs, superb parts availability and low cost service, along with a loaner car program, let's see, would i opt for the ferrari @ 170k+ dollars (oh, and by the way, you can't really have one now, but if you're willing to pay over sticker for a used one, and you really beg, OK) or that swell Lexus/whatever, for a 1/3 or 1/4 the cost. By the way, the japanese car is guaranteed to have a better hi-fi system in it, too. Which would you choose, if you were a rational being? I guess what we're dealing with here isn't exactly rational, is it? | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2001 |
To the owner who claims "Just so you know, I drive a twin turbo Supra. No I don't own a Ferrari, but I do understand the passion Ferrari owners feel. In fact, I think I felt some of that passion today when I hit full boost and blew away a blue/blue top/tan interior 360 spyder on the street. As an aside, the plate said "S B" on it, was that you Simon Bertram????" The Supra sucks in everything but acceleration. Read Sport compact Car's assessment of the Supra vs a stock 360 Modena. The 360 RAPED it completely and the Supa handles likea beached whale, you should try turning sometime in a Ferrari and then compare it to your Supra, and its obvious you've never been on the track cause last I checked an 89' BMW M3 raped a 650hp Supra right in front of my eyes and a 328 killed it too. 3800lb cars with little engineering in their suspension usually end up in ceased production because of low sale.....oh wait thats what happened. | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2001 |
Whoa, saying a BMW is nothing like a Ferrari is exactly true, its better in many ways. I can tell you why 99% of people buy Ferrari's, 1 for the name, they like the heritage, the career, and history of only fast cars, and the race backing. 2, the styling is like none other. 3. They want to stand out and be exclusive, lets face it 99% of you would not want a Ferrari if you could not share it or speak about it to anyone else. Saying a BMW is slower than a Ferrari is completely wrong. Remember the 1995 M3 vs the 1995 F355? Who won the best handling Car in America test while keeping acceleration figures near the Ferrari. Besides with the extra 100,000 you save you can easily buy a Dinan supercharger and exhuast which would rape the Ferrari in all aspects: comfort, speed, on the track. But the BMW is not exclusive, it resembles a brick, and no one cares when you drive one unless you blow past them at over 4 times their speed (i'm an M3 owner in case yo can't tell). Saying a Ferrari is a better track car than a BMW is wrong, its not, some are, bt BMW's are cheaper, more reliable, comfier, less attetion from cops, and FASTER in all respects. Ferrari is a Ferrari, don't make it into some all out supercar that can defeat anything in every race because it can't its a Ferrai. Its a fast stylish, exclusive car. | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ok, ok I love my Ferrari, but now I want a Callaway too. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2002 |
soory ed i meant 450-500 hp, didnt want to get bashed here | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2002 |
ed zr1 was fast but a callaway vette is unreal.,designed by reeves callaway in connecticut.i believed he produced them from 87-89 or so, the hp was about450-600 depending on the tweeking, chip,airfilters, exhausts etc... did a 1/4 at 10.34..what an experience..but ferrari is still ferrari... bruce | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 86 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bruce, That 94 ZR-1 is one bad car. My sister had a 1992 ZR-1. They are exotic and fast, in my opinion, the closest thing to a Ferrari ever made in the USA, present Z0-6 included. Never been a Calloway though, what was that like? | ||
| Khoa Phan (Downunder)
New member Username: Downunder Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ferrari is #1 in my books. Heritage, Passion, Emotion, Precision, Excitement, Speed... BUT I don't rag on others if they disagree with me. People are entitled to their own opinions, and if they are more emotionally effected by the sight, sound and smell of an Acura or Porsche, so be it. There are some people on this board which need to realise that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In addition, there are some people who need to realise that if this is a Ferrari Forum, then there is going to be a hell of a lot of bias towards Ferrari. Hence, there is no need to get worked up about such issues. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 78 Registered: 3-2002 |
Bruce I agree with you..I was responding to another members comment about his idea of passion being to beat a 360 in a race..take care | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
New member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2002 |
andrew mrrou everyone is entitled to their opinion here, there money, their car..i have owned corvettes for the past 15 yrs, including a 94 zr1 and a 1988 calloway corvette, which was the fastest car i had ever driven. sold all my vettes, and purchased a 88 tr, why?, not for the speed, just for the looks...yea, the tr flies, but i think my calloway vette was faster..my point here is that people dont buy ferraris for speed, they buy for the name,looks, and history...my 2 cents.. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
New member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2001 |
those who compare 996tt to ferrari havent understood what Ferraris are about ..and its better that way because Ferrari must remain exclusive... | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2002 |
BretM..well said..couldnt agree with you more -Andrew | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 72 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bret, your right on that point. My Mom had a 1976 Nova Concorse. With faded silver paint, "pimp ready" red velor seats and a built 350 V-8, it could kick my Ferrari's a$$. Well,,,,, then according to the opinions of the so many "built" economy car owners, it must have been a better car. (ha ha) | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2280 Registered: 2-2001 |
I've come to the conclusion that non-Ferrari owners are more defensive of their acceleration numbers than Ferraris owners are of their mystique. Everyone that argues that Ferraris aren't fast enough gives the whole nine yards of 0-60, 1/4 mile, top gear acceleration, blah blah blah. No one ever brings up that a Ferrari will rape most of these cars in the turns and braking, but I guess it's good we forget about 90% of a race car's qualities and instead focus solely on acceleration because then in some sort of convulted mindset we can all pretend that a Supra, NSX, Honda, BMW, fill in your car of choice, is in fact a better car than a Ferrari. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2002 |
I find it funny that you consider ferrari passion blowing away a 360 spyder on the street..you picked apart my statement but u seemd to forget me saying speed isnt our main concern with ferrari's.. We all share our passion and have our own opinions..as far as me saying that i have quams with people buying acura's and being satisfied then i guess ur right about some people being satisfied with those..but im sure no ferrari owner on this board is satisfied with a BMW or else would they have a ferrari? I think not..just my opinion | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2001 |
Andrew, you wrote........ "now James Dixon, I don't know what kind of car you drive, but if you don't have a ferrari..you wouldnt understand the passion that ferrari owners and enthuisists feel" Just so you know, I drive a twin turbo Supra. No I don't own a Ferrari, but I do understand the passion Ferrari owners feel. In fact, I think I felt some of that passion today when I hit full boost and blew away a blue/blue top/tan interior 360 spyder on the street. As an aside, the plate said "S B" on it, was that you Simon Bertram???? "but i do have quams with car enthuisits people buying acura's and honda's or BMW's and being completly satisfied" Andrew, I am not sure if you realize this, but some car enthusiasts actually enjoy having a fast car, not just blabbing about passion and heritage. The rich guys who like performance cars get Ferraris and send them to Norwood to work his magic, the rest of us make do with Porsches, NSX's, Supra's, 300ZX's, RX-7's, Vettes, Mustangs and Camaros. Owning a Ferrari does not make you more of a car enthusiast than somebody who owns a $1500 5.0 mustang. And believe it or not, there are some car enthusiasts out there that are completely satisfied with a non-Ferrari purchase. "I consider Ferrari's top of the line in everyway, espiecally how ferrari's made, with ferrari's idea of quality control being top of the line in the industry" Would you mind telling me the criteria you use for being "top of the line in everyway"? I already posted that the 996 twinner is faster in acceleration. As far as Ferrari being the best in the industry for quality control and reliablitly, if you truly believe that, then I am forced to question your overall knowledge of the car industry and cars in general. "but I drive my dads 355 a lot so i have experienced the thrill a ferrari can bring..I guess once u drive a ferrari no other car satisfies you.." Well then we should be cool, as I also used to drive my daddys 1997 355 on various occasions. Unfortunatly, it was not always available for me to drive (or him for that matter) as it was at the dealership more often that not. If I remember correctly, it took almost 5 months to get a set of brake pads, and it was in the shop on 4 different occasions with cracked headers. FNA didn't seem to have a problem with making my father wait for new headers for months at a time. I don't know if you call that good customer service, but that would NEVER happen with any other manufacturer such as Porsche, BMW, Honda and so forth. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2002 |
Its only my opinion..hehe im only 21..i have a ways to go in some ways | ||
| Chris Young (Bimmerboy)
New member Username: Bimmerboy Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2001 |
Andrew, if they're enthused enough about Ferraris, then they can get themself a Ferrari. Not all car enthusiasts are Ferrari enthusiasts. Their money, their car, their choice. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 71 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well I have a stigma against all new cars only because the average one loses 20% of its value whaen it leaves the lot..(ferraris are an exception) thats 20% of the price u can use for whatever u want..so for me buying new anything isnt worth it..I have no quams with any cars but i do have quams with car enthuisits people buying acura's and honda's or BMW's and being completly satisfied..I consider Ferrari's top of the line in everyway, espiecally how ferrari's made, with ferrari's idea of quality control being top of the line in the industry. Also If you pay this kind of money for automobile you should have the best. As far as a personal ferrari goes, im a grad student right now so I dont own one persay, but I drive my dads 355 a lot so i have experienced the thrill a ferrari can bring..I guess once u drive a ferrari no other car satisfies you.. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 69 Registered: 3-2002 |
Speed is not my priority or a cars 1\4 times..if you want a 1\4mile car get a vette...I doubt ferrari's like drag racing because of the tranny...id drive a 308 or a 328 over a 911 turbo because just like Terry States, its the company that I like..Labor has become so expensive in this country that companies cut production corners to do everything by computer..If I had a C5 in my garage id just walk by it and go about my business. If I see for example a 348 in my garage my jaw will drop and Ill stare at it for a good while before going about my business..Some people run to relieve stress, some people listen to music..me? id sit in a ferrari..smell the italian leather, feel the shifter, if you don't have direct experiences with ferrari's you can't relate to this..now James Dixon, I don't know what kind of car you drive, but if you don't have a ferrari..you wouldnt understand the passion that ferrari owners and enthuisists feel..my 2 cents | ||
| Terry Daniel (Dogue)
New member Username: Dogue Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2001 |
James, not to defend Andrew's comments, but I think that performance numbers are just part of the story. I mean if we break it down the Z06 will probably beat all with cost vs. performance. I think Andrew is referring to Passion and Prestige over raw numbers. There is definately a different feel when driving a Ferrari, or at least for me there is. The smell, the sound, the feel and the butterflies in your gut everytime you see it in the garage. All of these small details are what makes Ferraris special as well as the History behind the cars and how the company has done a pretty good job of continueing to stay true to the heritage. I completely understand someone buying a P-car over a Ferrari, they (Ferraris) are a real pain in the A** sometimes and for most people they are just not a fit, but for me there is no other manufacturer that compares. And I THINK?? this is Andrew point. If you want raw performance numbers buy a Shifter Kart and go out to the track and have a blast for less than $10k, then buy a 328 for a very reliable Ferrari & weekend fun and buy a 1964 330 GT 2+2 for a front engined V12 and long highspeed cruising and you have nowhere near the money invested as you would with a 911TT and ten years from now you might have possitive equity in your investment. Just my opinion. OF Course I don't have any of the above, nor do I have the money for any of the above, so I should just keep my opinion to myself. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2001 |
Andrew, you wrote...... "but why would you want to spend lets say 120k on a turbo and get less car for your money? " Would you care to elaborate on how you get "less car"???? Here are some performance data from the latest R&T to assist in your explanation. Ferrari 360 Modena $169,000 0-60 4.3, 1/4 mile [email protected] Porsche 996 turbo $118,365 0-60 4.0, 1/4 mile [email protected] Porsche 996 GT@ $187,724 0-60 3.6, 1/4 mile [email protected] | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 134 Registered: 2-2001 |
Andrew, What Ferraris do you drive?Which is your daily driver? Porsche Turbos aren't good enough, one would be crazy to drive an Acura if they can get a 308, hopped up imports are out of the question as well as a brand new Honda Accord. An inquiring mind would like to know. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2002 |
I would never buy a new car, not even a honda..only because of the valuie of a good used car..just me 2 cents | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
New member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well, not just anyone can pick up a 911TT... You do still have to have the $120k, plus they are a bit limited. Still, a 911 looks nearly identical. But the real point is that just because you can manage the $120k 911TT doesn't mean you can manage a new F360. I have a couple of friends with TTs and they would probably not be able to commit to the added maintenance expense while still maintaining their other lifestyle perks. ie - the Hamptons share could be in trouble if they were spending $10k per year on clutches... These guys use their 911s to go to work and log a good 10-12k per year. Another thing to consider is that they aren't the type to feel comfortable buying used. I know that there are Porsche fanatics, but I think a lot of Porsche owners would love a Ferrari if they could manage it, but it's just not a good fit... | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2002 |
If 5-7 shops in an area have porsche dealerships that 5-7 places where people can get YOUR CAR..if you get a silver cab, your neighbors can easily get 2 the next day..everyone has porsche's no one has ferrari's even though im complaining i am happy with how things are..let the P guys spend money on their cars..keeps the demand for F cars down so we can buy them and save hehe | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2002 |
Porsche's might have have well engineering..but the passion just isnt there..I test drive a 911 Cab and it was like driving a mustang, except for the white dials that stare out of you..is that worth 120k? I think not. | ||
| Terry Daniel (Dogue)
New member Username: Dogue Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2001 |
I believe Montezemolo took over in 1995 or so, is that correct? anyway he is a big reason that we have more reliable and comfortable interiors today. He was concerned about the customers and their reputation after the 348 had such bad press. Thats why I think he came in about 95 because that is when the 355 replaced the 348. I agree with your point about a lesser car when you are talking about $120k for a turbo, but many people prefer Porsche, and they are more available. In Arizona I can think of at least 5-7 dealers that I could find a late model Porsche and each of these dealerships will have a few in stock, but with Ferrari there are maybe 3 that would have maybe 2 or 3 cars to look at. Doug, you make a great point about service, with a porsche you could theoretically go to any jiffy lube shop and get an oil change if you wanted, but with a Ferrari, I doubt if you tried anyone would even do the service. What bothers me more than $120k Porsche is seeing a $70K SUV when you could have bought a $20 SUV of the same size and bought a 328 for that money, but again I always equate a car by what Ferrari it would pay for. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 56 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ross Killer When did montezemolo take over? | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
New member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2002 |
I live east of boston so I am within 6miles of Ferrari of New England..accessability for me is easy..ur right about the soccer mom in a maranello..it would be a disgrace..but why would you want to spend lets say 120k on a turbo and get less car for your money? also about attention ive seen a yellow brand new turbo and people have walked by without even looking..I saw a red 355 spider with the top down 1 year ago in the same spot and everyone was making comments about it and gawking at it..thats what id want out of a car..and anyone who buys a porsche and who does not want that is crazy, and no offence to C5 owners here, but they might as well buy a vette if they are looking to fit in, its a lot cheaper | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 133 Registered: 2-2001 |
One of the main reasons that people will buy a new Porsche, Acura NSX, BMW etc.. or many other high performance cars over a Ferrari is because of access to warranty work or general service work. Their dealers are more convenient. Many highline car buyers like their car to have documented service at a dealer. Not many people like to have their car flat bedded 300 miles to fix the squeak or have the oil changed. With Porsche, BMW, Jag etc...they are usually within 100 miles from a dealer. | ||
| Terry Daniel (Dogue)
New member Username: Dogue Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2001 |
You also have to consider that the availablility of Porsches and that not everyone that has money for a high-dollar car is an enthusiast. For me I agree I could never spend equal amount of money for a Ferrari on any other make. But even though there is not question about which is more prestigious or which is more "hand-made" there is also no question which is easier to work on or cheaper to maintain. Most people want a car that they have no problem going to walmart in, and that in most cases is not a Ferrari. People also think that a car should ride smooth, have good airconditioning and offer a navigational system for the kind of money we are talking, and Ferrari again does not fit that bill. I know the new Ferraris have come a long way with the creature comforts, but no where near what Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar offer. Most people with lots of money want BIG SUVs and BIG luxury cars not race cars. And I think this is a good thing. I would hate to see a soccer mom on a cell phone picking up the kid at the mall in a Maranello. Let them have their S Class. One other thing to consider is financing a car is real easy if it is newer and getting a loan on a $35,000 Suburban or Acura is easier and payments will be much lower than financing a 16 year old Ferrari. Most banks will not loan money on a car older than 10 years old. So you would have to get a personal loan at 17% to finance through a bank or go through some of the classic car financing services and they are not going to be as easy on a purchaser as a bank will. I personally will never spend more than $20,000 for a car until I have a Ferrari. If I did, I would feel I cheated myself, because for $20,000 I could have purchased a 308 GT4. But I also realize that I am insanely obsessed with Ferrari and most people will not understand my passion. Just my .02 | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
New member Username: Ross Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2002 |
i agree with ken's reasoning. i have had a few porsches and still have healthy respect for them. here is another point: i only ever buy used cars (of good heritage etc) because i hate to take the hit on the first 2-3 years of depreciation; and in the used mkt for f cars from 3 yrs old to old model status, you actually have very little price decline. whereas in p cars, the decline continues. that is largely due to there being so many of them, and also due to the trashing they get after owner number one. so if u can stand the extra attention (positive or negative), and u buy used, the fcar is a better bet. also i might add that the fcars built after montezemolo took over seem a lot better built than before, hence maintenance not so bad. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm not surprised at all that so many opt for P cars. They don't attract as much attention which for some people is a good thing. They don't break in general like Ferraris do. You don't feel the same about not driving in rain and snow in a P car. Not everyone is willing to put up with all the Ferrari hassels for the sake of a Ferrari. I think they're crazy too however; I'd take a 550 over any P car. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
New member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2002 |
What ive never understood is why someone would spend 110k on a Porsche Cabrelet or a Turbo. What makes these companies, espiecally Porsche, the first choice amoing most executives. The maintence on a Turbo is right up there with a ferrari of the same price, if u have 120k to blow on a turbo u can certainly afford the maintence of a ferrari like a 512tr or similar for the tubro's price. Being a Car enthusist I always look when I see a Porsche but the 911 has been around since what mid 1960's? Ferrari makes new models every few years, but what i was upset about the glut of ferrari's on the market..Ferrari makes outstanding cars and the demand for ALL models should be considerably higher..there are plenty of people with more then enough money for lets say a 550, but drive a porsche, I think Porsche's might be factory made although i might be wrong, but providing they are factory made, for the price of a turbo i woul want a car that had a lot of care taken into it with both the production and the testing.. I think when you pay a lot of money for a car your standars for it are considerably higher, Id want a handmade work of art, id like to think, wow someone actually hand sewed this leather, wow someone took great care in test driving this to make sure nothing was wrong, What is a rarer car a ferrari or a Porsche, what has more exclusivity? NO question there, Some of us like the exclusivity a ferrari brings, im sure those exec's with the new porsche's do also but they buy a Porsche instead. I know a lot of people outside this Fchat board don't think the same way, but people should be attracted to quality, hence be attracted to ferrari I know my point is kind of garbled but hopefully im getting across what im thinking.. :D | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2002 |
The last thing we want is everyone driving F-Cars... Where is the uniqueness and individuality in that? | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
New member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
andrew a 1978 308 or a mitsubishi 2002 diamante, for a daily driver, you make the call if you have some edumacation......... | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
New member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2002 |
Andrew... by your comments I take it you own a Ferrari then? Keep in mind that not everyone can afford the maintenance on the F car or fit the F car into their lifestyle. Plus, the 308 is the only Ferrari that is really even remotely affordable and it may not be everyone's cup of tea. You aren't actually puzzled that the whole world isn't driving Ferraris are you? It seems pretty unreasonable to assume that a 2002 Acura RL buyer would stop and think "hmmm... maybe I should buy a 1978 Ferrari instead". I drive an Acura NSX because I love the car. If I could afford a Testarossa or a F355, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Personally, I don't care enough for the 308/328/348 to make the necessary sacrifices to get one. Plus, I need both my cars to be essentially daily drivers and would definitely not be able to afford a daily driven Ferrari of any variety... | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
New member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2002 |
This may sound snoobish but why do people evn settle for a Acura or something like that..A 308 can be purchased pretty cheat right? im sure it can be had with finiancing right? People have no taste these days..I hate seeing those honda with the coffee can mufflers..and when u see them notice how there are NEVER any girls in them? people try to be pimpin it aint happening..maybe the guy in that 400i had a better chance who knows.. As was said earlier an urban ferrari shamed by urban sloth..whoever owned that nice 400i had no clue about what owning a ferrari and respecting one REALLY MEANS | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 711 Registered: 6-2001 |
Yeah jack, then you'll probably get a more than a laugh out of that car, probably a bullet too ro something of that nature. Thats the car you need to get the biatches. 400i's look alot like an early 90's acura legend, dont they? | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
New member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 32 Registered: 3-2002 |
ferrari's arent meant to be pimped up..the only thing that car should attract is cops..the owner of that ferrari has no style or taste.. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 99 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'd laugh, but I'm sure I'll get the opportunity later when that car pulls up next to me one day in Chicago. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
New member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2002 |
True DAT Mofos! Dats bee da true ef car yo representing da bomb diggity g thang a yay yay! lets us c anybodi wit a pee car pic up da pus*&#&$ fasta than that ferrarrrri vtec type-r gts v12!!! WOARD UP YO!! | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 410 Registered: 2-2001 |
60k for that?! Yeah and I'm selling my 308 for 75k. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2334 Registered: 2-2001 |
You know Ebay does strange things to people. $60,000 and who knows there may be a fool. A 400i which I think is a nice car but doesn't have a good following, and then make it look like a "PIMP" car. Disgusting. | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Junior Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 245 Registered: 9-2001 |
Word to ya mutha, Thems is da dopest ride in all these here hood. Another Ferrari shamefully molested by an urban sloth. WHAT MAKES THIS CAR A GTS??? Call the F.P.S. ROB! | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Junior Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 244 Registered: 9-2001 |
Word to ya mutha, Thems is da dopest ride in all these here hood. Another Ferrari shamefully molested by an urban sloth. WHAT MAKE THIS CAR A GTS??? Call the F.P.S. ROB! | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2001 |
Aren't those shields made to go on your garage wall? | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 66 Registered: 12-2001 |
You know, as if the spolier and the price (I want some of whatever medicine this guy is taking!!) were not bad enough, that HUGE Scuda sheild takes the cake. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 697 Registered: 6-2001 |
Come on, only 18's? I would have tossed on a set of dubs and put some chrome on the fender lips, then the ladies would be all over me, you know homes. (said in hispanic accent, please dont be offended) | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 494 Registered: 9-2001 |
60K LOL | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2224 Registered: 2-2001 |
I particularly like the spoiler. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2001 |
If it had a SuperFly grill, I would consider it. | ||
| Brian (Ringfan)
New member Username: Ringfan Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2002 |
pimpin' ain't EZ | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 131 Registered: 2-2001 |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1819825807&r=0&t=0 Hmmmmm...I could have a few tricked out, winged and supercharged Civics for that price. |