| Author | Message | ||
| Jonas Petersen (Karsten335)
Member Username: Karsten335 Post Number: 305 Registered: 11-2002 |
Very nice acceleration, but am I the only one thinking it sound awful? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 703 Registered: 1-2002 |
WOW! That car sound FANTASTIC! | ||
| ALAIN DEGRAEVE (Alain)
New member Username: Alain Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2002 |
i own both a 993 TT and 360 spider. Have owned many porsches and several Fcars. For you guys that are dissing Porsche, you shopuld check out this link and watch the video. Maybe it might set the record straight. I do agree that Porsche has gone mainstream but they still know how to kick butt. That's also why I kept my 993 TT , the last of the great one untill the Carrera GT http://www2.porsche.de/german/deu/carreragt/modelinformation/experience/weissach/default.htm | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 183 Registered: 12-2002 |
I guess I love Porsche too. She got the best treatment too while she was with me  | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 458 Registered: 2-2003 |
Andy, the black Enzo is someone's car; apparently some dude from the upper east side. Some of these guys have so many cars and so much money that it isn't of any particular interest to them to rush in and pick up there car. I'm surprised that Gianni would let anyone sit in it. I doubt any Enzos are around at MSRP. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3188 Registered: 8-2002 |
Andy - i was there, too...! | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2003 |
Efwun, I think there are Enzos to be had at sticker. Just my opinion, and its based on speculation only. I was at an FCA event yesterday at Ferrari of Long Island. There were at least 60 cars ranging from the oldest (275GTB4) up through the latest (a black Enzo and a black F50). The F50 has been there for at least two weeks and it was on display yesterday. I can see someone owning the car and leaving it there for display purposes. I can understand that but don't agree with it. Anyway, the sales guys let more than a couple of people sit in the car over the course of the day which led me to believe the car does not belong to someone. If there is someone out there who will spend $650,000 for a car like this and then leave it with somebody, I need to meet that person ! Andy | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 173 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hey hey hey, this is supposed to be a Ferrari discussion !! BTW the shot was taken in Chicago, mid-winter time. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1036 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have a tape I made off the History channel that shows a RUF being "tested" on the autobahn (sp) by a RUF tech guy. Watching that thing at 235mph on the street is something | ||
| Timothy Guay (Timguay)
New member Username: Timguay Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2003 |
My Brother-in-Law has a 1988 930 Turbo Slant, one of 200 made. This wasn't good enough for him so he had RUF engineering completely re-work the car to race specs, 651 h.p.. What a rush going from 10 mph to 150 mph in 6 seconds! The turbo sounds like a huge toilet flushing, beatiful! | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1030 Registered: 5-2001 |
That's a great shot. Where was it taken? | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 172 Registered: 12-2002 |
Tommy, a lucky guy in the ENZO, This is what I missed about Porsche, My friend's 996 C4S  | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1029 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am glad this thread cooled off. I was only having some innocent fun. I am actually a member of the local Porsche Club here in Alabama and have even been the "only Ferrari" at track meets several times. They are a great bunch of guys with a great bunch of cars. My best friend has a 993 and we even took it to Sebring for the FCA meet (mainly because my 308 can't hold anywhere near the luggage the Porsche can). I just hope no one thinks I was trying to be offensive. Just having fun. :-) | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 170 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jeffrey I like your 550 better, just missing the SF shields on the fenders | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 433 Registered: 2-2003 |
MMMMMMMMM, GT2 . . . . . MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 94 Registered: 9-2001 |
Nice to see that we're all getting along now.  | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 427 Registered: 2-2003 |
I prefer the 512 too, at least in part because I spent an inordinate amount of time sitting in Chinetti's example, making vroom vroom sounds in my head and imagining 230mph on Mulsanne! In my brief exposure to driving one a number of years later, I remember thinking that it would yank the socks off of our F-5000 based Can Am Lola, at least in a straight line!! Unfortunately, I am financially unable to play in that league, at least currently! | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 783 Registered: 10-2001 |
Efwun , 512S or M usually go for 1.2/1.5M$ . I myself prefer the S , esp the one owned by Jean Guickas or the Mason's one. Not that i would refuse the John Bosh 512M ! I prefer them to the 917 even if they werent successful. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 425 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jim G., it was my understanding that all Enzos were "sold", and any availability was through the secondary market at vastly inflated prices. Truth to tell, the question is academic for me, because I cannot afford one even at MSRP. As an aside, do you have any knowledge about what a 512S or M would cost? (particularly beautiful example in the current "Rosso" magazine) Are Ferrari as covetous of the engines and parts for those as they are for mid '70s f/1 cars? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 912 Registered: 10-2002 |
Guys If you want an Enzo you can buy an Enzo now. If you want a P3 or a 250GTO you can buy one of those too. If anyone is seriously interested let me know and I'll point you in the right direction. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 118 Registered: 3-2002 |
the porsche vs ferrari is going to be fun battle over next year with enzo v Cgt and 360s v gt3. i think results will remain as theyve always been with one exception. fcar is ultimate performance edge for more $ and exclusivity while pcar is more practical for everyday use. exception is fcar is always better looking which is NOT the case in enzo v carrera gt. gt also gives option of open top and avoids crazy lambo doors. im more interested in gt3 and 360s though. | ||
| les brun (Labcars)
Junior Member Username: Labcars Post Number: 65 Registered: 1-2003 |
Owning several F-cars and P-cars, I've enjoyed the thread. Hard to understand how doctrinaire some can get about one versus the other, but hey, who understands how some define themselves through their cars! As to the Carrera GT, it's been priced at $440k, with 1500 examples to be manufactured. High price, with little "investment" potential, given the number to be made, but just an awesome car - carbonfiber monocoque, undertray, front and rear clips, body panels, interior pieces, etc., etc. It ought to be amazing on the street, and I for one, can't wait to put it through its paces. That being said, my love for my 550 goes unabated! Long live both marques. | ||
| Viken Bedrossian (Vikenb)
Junior Member Username: Vikenb Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2001 |
The US base price of the Carrera GT has been set at $440,000. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2001 |
Everything my dealer is telling me about the Carerra GT is that it will be in the low to mid 400's. Very high for a Porsche. However, they've decided to only make 1000 (instead of the 2-3000 they were originally talking about)-probably to increase the exlusivity factor. Hence the higher price so they can recover the costs of developing the car. I passed on a spot...... | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 167 Registered: 12-2002 |
Just like what I said before, You can get Porsche anytime you want, any color combinations, any options. But hard to get the Ferrari with the options and color combinations you like. Sometimes needs to wait to get the "right one" In this case "no go" for Enzo | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 418 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dave: Pretty funny about the Fuhd versus Chevy crowd!! Shelbee: The problem is that most of us CAN'T go with the Enzo, there aren't any we can buy!! (Even if we could afford $672,000!) On the other hand, my guy called me up and asked "So, what color do you want your Carrera GT??" They're still too expensive (I'm told something in the high 2s to low 3s will buy the car) but they're available! | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2002 |
It is a hard call but I think I go with Enzo  BEST OF THE BEST BUT ............. FORZA FERRARI                    | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2003 |
In recent pictures of the GT it looks like the car is so long it needs to be articulated in the middle. Maybe the angle was wrong. I'll wait to see one in person. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 689 Registered: 1-2002 |
Des- Comparison is the nature of automotive marketing; the latent implication that one is getting just as good a product, but for less money, less hassle, etc. anything to make it seem as though the consumer is coming out ahead by buying my product over yours, but at this level, such "marketing" give way to impulse, passion,and for some... status. I've heard the carrara GT's engine note and it's amaizing; very reminiscent of Ferrari's metallic shrill cry; however, the ENZO has two extra cylinders, and ~ 60 more hp. Both feature the PCCB breaks, aero, and are fairly equally equipped, and I'd very much like to see the two go head to head. Which will indeed happen once the GT debuts. The GT will not be as exclusive as the Enzo, but no Porsche ever is. With that, however, the GT beats the Enzo two fold 1. it's inherantly more accessible, and while still given out to premier customers first a first time buyer could get one, 2. b/c more units will be made, they will cost less ~ 1/2 or less that of an Enzo. Again, both are fantastic cars, and having witnessed the amazing realworld and track performance of the 996 GT2 I've got to say that for the money, I don't think there's a better performing street car. In my opinion, of course. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3161 Registered: 8-2002 |
So- being a Porsche enthusiast, as well, i can't help but repeatedly mention the 962... This car is gorgeous, i love it... Definitely wouldn't show up in the rear view of many Ferraris... Also- since we're discussing it- One of the new issues of some magazine i have at home goes into detail about the new Carrera GT (another very tasty car ) and they compare it to the Enzo... How do you all feel about that...? | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1006 Registered: 1-2002 |
Efwun, you are correct. Despite famous rivalries elsewhere, our FCA chapter here has reached out to the Porsche Club, and we have been met with nothing but love. Why? Because our approach was that we're all just a bunch of car nuts who appreciate fast, well-made, well-handling cars. We quickly began doing a bunch of events together (last night kicked off our new indoor karting league), and there is absolutely no crapping on anyone! It's all how you approach it, as you say. Life is too short to engage in marque rivalries or pissing contests. Best to leave that to the Ford vs. Chevy vs. Mopar folks... | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 417 Registered: 2-2003 |
As I said, you can love your Ferrari without needing to crap on Porsche!! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 812 Registered: 10-2001 |
In Chicago, Cub fans are either indifferent to the Sox or hope they win, unless they're playing the Cubs. The Sox fans generally hate the Cubs; they bash them at every opportunity and love when the Cubs lose. Now, match the Ferrari and Porsche fans to the Cubs and Sox. And why do Lotus fans like pretty much everything if it's cool? | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 413 Registered: 2-2003 |
Sure felt that way, DES. Perhaps the balance of power would shift around 130-140mph, but under 120, that thing was beastly quick. The client told me he thinks around 525hp, and I've no reason to doubt that!! Still, as I said, none of the smoothness or charisma (or the sound!) of the 550; in fact, oddly enough, the car actually seemed to have a bit of my old 993's volkswagen-ey exhaust whuffle! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3157 Registered: 8-2002 |
Quicker than the 550...? | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 412 Registered: 2-2003 |
Guys, a client came in yesterday afternoon with a lowered 996 Turbo. He said he had a european tuner computer, some exhaust and turbo mods, RSR coil overs, and R compound tires. He insisted I give him a ride in his car. Oooh boy. I've gotta tell you guys, that car was FAST!! I'm not saying smooth, sweet-sounding, charismatic or fun but FAAAAAAAAAST. Definitely quicker than my 550, at least under 120. Smoked all FOUR tires from a 20mph roll. He had 500s front and 650s rear (!!) so the car rode like a coal cart, banging over every pavement ripple. Still, a reminder that there are cars out there that are just silly fast, without necessarily being something you gotta have instead of a Ferrari. Still, an example of one QUICK Porsche. To relate to this thread, you can love your Ferrari without needing to crap on Porsche!! | ||
| Gordo A. (Gordo)
New member Username: Gordo Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2003 |
Andy, Ok perhaps I was a teeny bit harsh even if I was provoked... I apologize the slur on the old dear! (but I bet she does plow through that snow) | ||
| Gary Shaw (308930g)
New member Username: 308930g Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mitch. "Still a Porsche" isn't so bad! All those Le Mans victories could get boring. I agree w/ you when it comes to visual appeal and "liking" a manufacturer. However..... I still love my Ferrari and am in the hunt for another, despite the lack of visual attraction in i.e. the 330 GT 2+2, the 308 GT4, the Mondial, the 348, the 400's the new 456 and the most absurd design from Pininfarina's drawing board; the testarossa. Remember the 80's when girls had their big hair. The testarossa seems made for them. I think Sergio Pininfarina was quoted as saying that the best place to drive a testarossa was off a pier! Mustangs, bang for the buck? The best Ford w/ bang for the buck was the Pinto! | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 161 Registered: 12-2002 |
Thanks everybody for making this thread interesting to read. I missed driving my 996 cab to work  honestly. Ended up with the G everyday now. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2003 |
Gordo, You can say whatever you want about me but please leave my poor little finback alone. With the car cover nailed to the back wall, it doesn't have enough power to pull out of the garage ;-) Andy | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 972 Registered: 3-2002 |
thats too bad. i will be going w/ a bunch of london fchatters and our steeds, and it would have been a privilege to meet you and buy you a drink. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 411 Registered: 2-2003 |
Just fantastic. An incredibly desirable vehicle. I actually heard of a kid who robbed a bank to buy the '69 Daytona car (as I dimly recall), got nabbed and did hardcore jail time!! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 897 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ross No. I've been invited to do a few laps with the Pace car in my MK-IV in front of the field at the Firecracker 400 at Daytona over July 4th,and I'm planning to be there. Hopefully I'll be back at Goodwood in 04. Best Jim | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 455 Registered: 4-2002 |
DES "Mitch, you couldn't stomach getting into a 962 or a Carrera GT...? i could..." When I actually think about it, I could get into (as in open the door and sit down) a 917, a 962, and almost a 993. The original 911s, 914, 924, 928, 944, 964, 996 do nothing for me. They all have great engines (914 excepted), stiff chassis (for their day), handle well, drive well, break exceptionally well. They just do nothing for me. This is nothing against Porsches, its only me. Gary goes on to indicates why others are so enamored with p-cars--to which I reply--"at the end of the day its still a Porsche", which is to say and excellent car that is missing visual appeal (to me). And by the time you get to the bang for the buck catagory--just remember there is the supercharged Mustang in the $30s. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 971 Registered: 3-2002 |
jim, are you going to goodwood this year? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 896 Registered: 10-2002 |
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/202185.html | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 409 Registered: 2-2003 |
Are you saying you've got the Sunoco Lola too?? Yikes. Truly an eclectic collection. As a kid, I used to lay awake and dream about that car! (alright, no off-color comments!) I'm not big on tracking road cars, but I'm hoping to save enough dough and lose enough weight to get an HGP racer (probably a late 3 liter March or something), and if I do, I hope to meet you at Lime Rock or similar! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 894 Registered: 10-2002 |
EFWUN No for Lime Rock I'd bring my Lola. In practise Mark was the first person to break 1 min in it. (56sec.) As I'm not quite as fast as him and I've since added a coupe body and about 700 lbs of road crap you'd probably still win. Best Jim | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 408 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jim: I have no idea of the good doctor's driving ability, while I suspect that your's is pretty damn good. No takers here on that basis!! I don't denigrate Porsche at all. My first time in the 956, I was astonished when I twirled my gloved hand in a "fire me up" gesture, and the mechanic's laughed, leaned in and said "turn the key, Dumbkopf!!" The level of engineering was far beyond anything I'd ever experienced. It has always been my dream to drive a 917, but so far, no luck! Finally, if you remember, I posted a reply stating that I would take the GT2 over pretty much any other "road going" vehicle for a track mount! Now, if you want to run the Cayenne at Lime Rock against my 550, with the prize being a case of Dom Perignon v. a lap or two in that pulchritudinous P/4, you're ON!! | ||
| Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member Username: Ron328 Post Number: 53 Registered: 3-2003 |
Gary, Thanks for the wife tip . Ron | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 892 Registered: 10-2002 |
Efwun et al When I was at Goodwood I was amused to find the the fastest time up the hill wasn't me in my MK-IV { } or Eddie Irving in a Ferrari FI but Michelle Mouton in a Puegiot rally car. The fact that she cut the cornors some what certianly helped. You are right I was overreacting, but being dismissive of P cars is silly. A GT2 will smoke most F cars and the 962's, 956's, and 917's are works of art as well as some of the fastest racecars ever built. The 917-30 CanAm car Mark drove was so fast that nothing could even run with it much less beat it. As you know I love Ferraris but I also love many different cars and some P cars are amoung them. If you'll let me I'll restate my challenge. Me driving my wife's turbo up the hill at Goodwood and the Good Dr. in his 550. (I will of course follow Michelle's lead) Best Jim PS If you drive the Turbo Cayanne you'll be amazed at how hard it pulls and how fast it's huge brakes haul you back. | ||
| Gordo A. (Gordo)
New member Username: Gordo Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2003 |
Correct me if I am wrong thought, but isnt the '65 190D the one that shipped with tracks? | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 407 Registered: 2-2003 |
Don't laugh, Gordo, I was thinking of trading my E55 and 550 and just getting an X-50 Turbo, and some Michelin Alpins for the winter. Then, I drove the 550 again . . . . Nahhhh. | ||
| Gordo A. (Gordo)
New member Username: Gordo Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2003 |
Andy, I would have thought a '65 Merc was perfect for the bad weather... ;0) | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 404 Registered: 2-2003 |
I owned a 993 and 993 Turbo before my first 355, and I've enjoyed the Ferraris more. That isn't to say that Porsche isn't a lovely car; I still miss my 993C2. My only comment relates to Jim G.'s Cayenne v. 550 comments. I looked up the numbers last night, Cayenne 444hp, 5,600lbs, high center of gravity v. 550 485hp, 3715lbs, considerably lower. Like comparing fish and bicycles, really. I'm sure the Cayenne is impressive, but beat a 550 at any track? I'm thinking no. | ||
| will h (Willh)
New member Username: Willh Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2003 |
Have owned both. With either car, don't you buy into the tradition as much as the car. The "bang for the buck" argument is tough to make; my little formula car will crush both a 360 and a twin turbo at the track, and at a fraction of the cost of the tintops, but it's a collection of parts bolted onto a frame, not really a marque. For that matter, a 944 turbo is probably a steal (at today's prices) given price for performance. With either car, aren't you buying art as much as transportation? I personally feel that the Ferrari has more energy, more charisma in its designs, perhaps signified by that term "exotic.". Another similarity in the two communities are: a longing in some parts for the visceral, "wear the car" feel of the older cars, accompanied with specific complaints about the newer cars (too big, for example). I think one also finds a stubborn belief among newer owners of both marques that performance upgrades, rather than driver development, are the ultimate secret to speed at the track. I haven't seen, in the Ferrari community, the same disregard for owners of models with a different engine (944 v 928 v 911); this becomes comical at times, although it makes for at times entertaining thread reading. Got a kick out of Andy's comment about needing a car for the snow - I've seen lots of 996s in the snow this winter, but needless to say, no Ferraris - though my wife took our 360 up the block in a light snow, in the middle of the night, just for the heck of it. But the comment cuts both ways: I bought a new 911 in 1993 and immediately took it to the track, Mid-Ohio before the car had 1k miles - I thrashed the car for years at tracks from Road America to Sebring to Lime Rock, and it was remarkably bulletproof, turn the key and go. I would hesitate to treat a Ferrari that way, opting instead for a track car. I'd like to own a 356 speedster someday, and the upcoming GT3 interests me. But the next cars I lust after are the Stradale, and a 12 cyl F. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 92 Registered: 9-2001 |
Don't you just love these threads? They always get the juices flowing. Ron328, I didn't mean to imply that your post showed any imbalance-I enjoyed it. Dr. Shelby, you're certainly entitled to your absolutist opinion-being satisfied with 2 Ferraris versus 6 Porsches. Hope you are enjoying them My point, and the point of a number of posters on this thread is that just because you think Ferraris are terrific (most of us agree), it doesn't make it more terrific by bad-mouthing or trivializing another fine car. I love my 550 and think it's a movable piece of art: there's no way I?d trade it for a Porsche. On the other hand, I also appreciate the qualities my 996-twin turbo has- and there's simply no way I?d trade that for another Ferrari such as the 360. We all love our Ferraris but they are on average, a lot more trouble to maintain. I can't see having yet another Ferrari to worry about flat-bedding 120 miles to the nearest expert every time something goes wrong that I can't take care of- versus calling the Porsche dealer to send someone out to pick up the car and have it delivered back to the house. I think people who have owned both will agree that the hassle factor of owning a Porsche is much less- and the driving pleasure of a Porsche driven at 8/10's approaches (but can't match) that of a Ferrari. The lucky ones can own both if so inclined, or concentrate on a single mark. Some of us appreciate the bulletproof qualities of the modern Porsches coupled with performance on the road that Ferraris are hard pressed to match. If I could only own one, and it was not my only car, I'd take the Ferrari. If I could only own one and it was my only car, the Porsche would win hands down. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 165 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have both. 911 Turbo (C2) & 355 Spider. I thought the P-Car was the ultimate until I got the F-Car. I drive my 355 daily and when I get into the turbo it feels "tail heavy", not as balanced as the mid-engine 355 and the linkage feels sloppy after getting used a gated shifter. Apples and Oranges in my book. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2003 |
Maybe you guys are right. I should broaden my perspective. Sure, I'll take a Porsche. I need a car to drive in the snow and rain. Dr. Shelbee - Beautiful Maranello ! Best Wishes. Ciao | ||
| Gordo A. (Gordo)
New member Username: Gordo Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2003 |
For me its very simply horses for courses. Having been lucky enough to have owned both (never at the same time regrettably) I love them both! Like people they have entirely different pesonalities thats all. They both go like s*** off a shovel, they are both incredible. My experience is the fishbowl factor is the only difference... I have the F in the garage, I would love nothing more than a Porsche sitting next to it! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 677 Registered: 1-2002 |
Why do topics like these always become pissing matches? Porsche builds a fine car, Ferrari builds a fine car. No one makes any intimations that a Porsche (996TT, GT2, or even the GT3 and Carrera GT) are, by Italian sliderule, exotics; however, they are, afterall, tried and true sports cars, all the way down to their respective crests. Porsche has had success in racing, Ferrari has too, but business model has kept Porsche in endurance racing (test bed, and platform for recouping r&d costs), while Ferrari's aim has been F1. Like others have said, if, at all possible, one looks OBJECTIVLY at the offerings from both marques Porsche appears to offer more for the money, objectivly. However, nothing about motorsport, cars, or any of that is purely objective and by the numbers, hence, the confluence of owners on both sides. I'm in love with Ferrari's to the core; however, I'll probably find myself in a Porsche (namely a GT2) before I jump to a 360; especially after having witnessed the sheer brilliance of a GT2 at the track (where I'd like to be all the time in such a car.) Variety, dear all, is said to be the spice of life. So, let's not piss on anyones paprika, deal? | ||
| Gary Shaw (308930g)
New member Username: 308930g Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2003 |
220k for a 575, 120k for a 996TT. Is a 575 worth 100k more than a 996TT? Performance-wise, no way. A 996TT can more than hold its own. In fact, I'd say the 996TT is more than a match for the 550 There are alot of Porsche owners that would rather not own a Ferrari.. Kenny makes a good point. Porsche built the Cayenne to help secure the co's future and keep Porsche independent. Yep, the family still owns the majority. Maybe if Enzo would have made a product or two for the masses, he wouldn't have had to walk up to the late Mr. Agnelli w/ his hands open. Why are there always so many 550's for sale in the Ferrari Market Letter? Come to think of it, there's alot of 360's for sale too. You don't really have to wait. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 403 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jim G., I've enjoyed your uniformly erudite postings, but I'm surprised to read that you expect your Turbo Cayenne to beat a 550 around the Nordschleife. Porsche claims the Turbo SUV can best a Boxster S, while the 550 is more than a match for a 996 Turbo. Are you sure this is what you meant? | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 160 Registered: 12-2002 |
James, no thanks. Perhaps your wife with cayenee can beat my Maranello but before she puts her effort, I will just let her win Thumbs up Andy !! Shelbee | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 730 Registered: 8-2001 |
I am a Ferrari man, always have been, always will be, but Porsche still cares about racing. From what I understand, they released the SUV so they could fun the Porsche GT racing in the Le Mans. Maybe I'm wrong, but Porsche still makes a helluva car. No public company can survive without making smart business decisions to make money- you have to sacrifice. They did. You'll see Maserati following soon. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2003 |
Porsche is doing what they want - Selling cars and focusing on making money (Cayenne punctuates that arguement). They have no passion for professional racing anymore but have a loyal following of people who like their products. This is great for the company and hopefully will sustain them while they find their way back. But let's be honest, how many Porsche owners would rather have a Ferrari? And how many Ferrari owners would rather have a Porsche? Am I missing something? Forza Ferrari | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 890 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dr. I've driven a few cars in my day and I can assure you that driving a 917 is not something you'll EVER forget. 245MPH on the Mulsanne and it was still pulling as the markers for the 25MPH right hander started to come up. As far as the Cayanne goes anytime you want to try to beat my wife's Turbo Cayanne around the Nurburgring in your 550 bring in on but be prepared to lose... Best Jim | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 159 Registered: 12-2002 |
The day I let my last 911 go and the day I got my second Ferrari, the 550 Maranello. No regrets !! You can get Porsche anytime you want, any color combinations, any options. But hard to get the Ferrari with the options and color combinations you like. Sometimes needs to wait to get the "right one" They've got to be a reason why Ferraris are more expensive than Porsches!! Just add $100k to the new Porsche's MSRP then it is the price of the new Ferraris. $50k for boxster (entry level), $150k for the 360 Modena $120k for 996TT (high end), $220k for 575M Maranello Got it now?? End of discussion from me   | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 158 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jeffrey, What do you think of me when I switched from owning 6 Porsches to my first 360, then 550 now with two Ferraris?? I am not looking back. Just don't want to be in the club with the owner of Cayenne (if I spell it right) | ||
| Gary Shaw (308930g)
New member Username: 308930g Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Ron. Nice post. I've been fascinated w/ the V-12's myself. I am currently stuffing the piggy bank for a Boxer. Test drove the BB, the BBi and then the almighty 365 GT4 BB. Believe it or not, the earlier car was the fastest and rawest. Maybe because of the lighter weight or earlier design. You have to respect a car w/ no useable luggage space! The sound is sensational. It's the kind of car you drive when a) no officers are anywhere near. b) no other motorists are hopefully anywhere near. c) you're focused. d) you're honest about your own abilities! Hey, here's an idea about the wife reaction. When I was ready to buy another Ferrari, my wife and I were moving to Nevada. We were leaving NYC and she woould need a car. She's English and was once the owner of an original mini cooper. She loved the new one. So we acquired a brochure and she picked out the one she wanted. After we landed in Las Vegas, I suprised her w/ the car the next morning. Needless to say, when the Ferrari market letters arrived in the mail, I hinted at a few items. Absolutely no contest from her. Hello 8000rpm's! Gary | ||
| Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member Username: Ron328 Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hi Gary and Jeff. As I said, Porsche's are nice cars. I just decided in favor of a 12-cyl Ferrari (in the near future depending on how my wife reacts)bec. I've always been fascinated w/ V-12 F-cars. I don't find Porsche's ugly at all, otherwise, I wouldn't have wasted my time test-driving it. (By the way, I was impressed with its acceleration, speed and handling). Ron | ||
| Gary Shaw (308930g)
New member Username: 308930g Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thank you Jeffrey! I was mildly concerned that my first post would P.O. some folks. To each, his/her own. P's and F's are just two means to the same sports car end(heaven) They're both great in their own way, w/ their own unique histories, racing victories and brilliant engineering. I wonder if Enzo and Dr. Ferdinand are having a shot of lambrusco dropped in a stein of hefewiesen as I type this. Hmmm. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2001 |
Gary, you raise an interesting point concerning the reaction of Porsche people to Ferraris. In fact, I've never heard the P-car folks bashing Ferraris the way a small subset of the Ferrari people (at least on this board) bash P-cars. It's hard to figure out the source of their anger. Good natured kidding I can understand but the mean streak that sometimes shows is hard to comprehend. It may be that they are kidding but that doesn�t come through in this e-media format. All the arguments I usually see on this board (ugly, a glorified VW, etc.) are pretty much nonsense or simply a matter of taste-and I�m pretty cautious about commenting on someone else's taste when it comes to cars, children and spouses! | ||
| Gary Shaw (308930g)
New member Username: 308930g Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2003 |
Guys! Why the cheap shots at Porsche? Didn't anyone watch the 24hrs of Daytona? Why can't we all just get along? As an owner of a '85 euro 930(that's 911 turbo for you unfamiliar folk), I find the car beautiful, reliable, and fast as hell. Stock hp is 300. A day's work of changing the turbo, muffler, wastegate spring and intercooler and I now have 370hp. No lie. I also have an incredibly original '78 308 GTS. The car was serviced by the legendary mechanic, Bob Wallace in Phoenix. He used to work at Maranello, then went on to Lamborghini to test drive the Countach. He changed the cams, pistons, exhaust and ignition. He also rejetted the carbs. All this for the original owner. I bought the car from that owner w/ every book, tool and receipt. But the P-car would still blow its doors off. Even w/o the hp mods that I've made. The Ferrari is alot heavier, even though I've taken 150lbs out. Fiberglass bumpers etc. The P-car weighs only 2680. (I've had it weighed) The P-car would easily handle a 308,328,348 and it would be a helluva ride against the testarossa or even a f355. The testarossa would have trouble with those things called corners. It's a little on the chubby side. How about brake fade. I drove the 930 around Watkins Glen, for 2 days, at warp speed. Never any brake fade or a hint of it from the big cross drilled rotors, which are standard. I drove my previous F-car there a year earlier. Brake fade all over the joint! I wouldn't race a berlinetta boxer because I love them too much! Oh, the hell I won't. Anyway, leave the P-cars alone. What's so ugly about fender flares and the tea-tray spoiler? How about the 356 speedster, or the '73 Carrera RS? And the parts aren't expensive. Oh yeah, I'm only into the P-car for a total of 30k. I still wear my love of Ferrari on my heart. That's true. My race suit has a great Ferrari patch on the left front! Hey, I wonder if the Porsche guys make anti-Ferrari comments? I'll bring my Ferrari to the next Porsche club event and let you know. | ||
| Ronald Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member Username: Ron328 Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2003 |
Last February, I test-drove this '02 Porsche Carrera Coupe. I think they're nice cars, but after some soul-searching, I decided to stay with Ferraris. I thought I'll just save my $s for my 2nd F-car (I want a V12!). Just thought of sharing some photos...   | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well Said Dr. Shelbee. Even though I think the GT is the best looking porsche they will have ever built I would certainly rather have a F50 or maybe even F40 although it's a little crude.I've always found the 911 ugly as hell. If it don't look good I could care less how fast or how well it handles. Ugly is Ugly. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 671 Registered: 1-2002 |
No passing, at all? OMG I'd go nuts. I run open track sessions w/ open passing and had to run w/ a group that limited passing to be carried out only on the two straights, got to be very frustrating. Oh, and I could very easily "stomach" sliding behind the wheel of an '03 GT2. | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 154 Registered: 12-2002 |
For the price of GT, I would get Enzo if I can or low miles F50 | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3064 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mitch, you couldn't stomach getting into a 962 or a Carrera GT...? i could... | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 443 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've allways been a Porsche fan--its just that the've never made a model I could stomache getting into. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1014 Registered: 5-2001 |
I've owned 6 Volkswagons | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Junior Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 151 Registered: 12-2002 |
Porsche ................ They are alright Simply an everyday Volkswagen (Owned 6 Porsches total previously) | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 395 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'll give it away... the entire touring session was NO PASSING! I had a Porsche behind me the whole time too, and I was driving my Acura TL 4-door family car. It is certainly a great new track, though. Details are at www.fca-se.org/barber_track.htm -- there's in-car video via the link at the bottom of that page.  | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 551 Registered: 5-2002 |
LOL ! | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2002 |
cant wait to see comparo on new pcar gt3 vs stradiale | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 340 Registered: 2-2003 |
Careful, Dr. Tommy, Frank Parker will want to know if there was a no-passing zone keeping that Porsche behind you!! | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
Junior Member Username: Aawil Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nice. I've never been a porsche fan at all. But I found them cooler after seeing a vid of a guy driving a 944 turbo around the old nurburgring circuit.It was pretty wild.Made me think about buying one since their not expensive. Something that I never thought I'd consider. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 987 Registered: 5-2001 |
...and just for the record, I think Porsches are really cool cars. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 986 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry, no offense to the Porsche guys out there but I couldn't resist. I took this today at the new Barber Motorsports Track while on a touring session.  |