| Author | Message | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 428 Registered: 2-2003 |
What I'm saying is that even if the car somehow generates 800lbs of downforce at 140mph,(How with a largely flat bottom?) that isn't nearly enough to crank that kind of number on grooved road tires with a 3000lb car. No Z-06 Corvette ever pulled 1.2g on a 200ft pad, and the distance between 1.05 or so and 2.1 is night and day. This is the same as claiming that the 575 does 1/4 mile in 12.2. A bit (!!) optimistic. | ||
| Jamil Jamal (Jameel)
Junior Member Username: Jameel Post Number: 83 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jon you are correct, normal skidpad ratings are done on a 200 foot radius. This is the 1st time I've heard of a 656. So far the best 200 foot skidpad numbers I've seen has been from a Corvette Z06 which - if I remember correctly - pulled 1.2g. I think you're correct, the skidpad seem suspect. As for the downforce numbers, I don't know enough about that to comment. But I will point out 1 thing, the McLaren F1 had the same type of wing and they claimed big downforce numbers. I don't know maybe both companies are not telling the truth. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 426 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jon, I too am a bit skeptical about 2.1g at 143mph. Many (many!) years ago, we went to TRC in Ohio with the March Atlantic car, and at 10K revs with a 21/27 5th, (a real 164mph), 10 and 15inch wide Goodyear slicks, 1,250lbs with my chubby ass in the car, a Gurney flap on the rear wing, and an aero package designed by Chuck Matthews of GM, we pulled a legitimate 2.5g. The Enzo's ride height doesn't seem low enough to actually generate real (e.g., 2000-3000lbs) downforce without skirts, the putative venturi tunnels don't seem sufficiently long to aid much either. In summary, I can't imagine that car on treaded tires pulling 2.1g without at least 2000lbs of aero. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 550 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sorry guys I have read the same article and I don't buy any of it. I love my Ferrari and no doubt they are some of the most technically advanced cars on the market (post 80's) but that article along with much of the specs from Ferrari are highly suspenct. The same type of suspect numbers the factory fed us on the 360 street car in terms of it's downforce advantage over the the 355. First off the cornering G's are done on a 600+ foot radius at 130-140 mph so this comparison is useless to the normal conering G's you read about in your monthly car magazine. Those cars are tested on a mcuh smaller radius skid pad at speeds below 50 mph. That's why at first glance the 2+ G's reported in the Rosso artcile leads one to believe it's in race car territory. We are comparing two different tests. The topic of downforce on the latest generation of F cars is a lot of marketing hype. They said the 360 street car made almost as much downforce as a 355 with a rear wing. Funny because at the first 2000 Challenge race at Homestead a total of 12 360 Challenge cars were crashed. Why? Almost all the fast drivers said the car had nowhere near the downforce at 10/10ths as the 355 C with a rear wing. Granted the 360 C was carrying faster speeds through the corners but most felt it needed a wing wich FNA refused to do because of the great amount of marketing that was hyped on the 360 street cars added downforce. Read Simon McBeath's "Competition Car Downforce" and look at some of the downforce numbers http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.htm . I am highly suspect that the Enzo can generate nearly 800 pounds of downforce at 124 with that simple retactable rear spoiler lip. The 360 could only manage 400 pounds and that was at 150 mph. Yeah I am sure it makes more donwforce than the F50 and corners better but I am suspect of the numbers given the overhyping of every replacement model. The F40 may not have all the aero aids and underbody diffusers but I have a hard time believing that the F50 made 35% more downforce than the F40 and that the Enzon makes twice the downforce of the F50. If you do the numbers that would mean the F40 generated only 280 pounds of downforce at 124 mph. Ever look at the rear wing on a F40. It ain't wimpy. Despite the lack of aero aids I can't imagine the F40 only generates roughly 25% of the downforce the Enzo does. No numbers to back any of this up, just my two cents worth. Maybe Rob S. could chime in on this or possible some of the engineers on this site. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2003 |
Jere, I heard that number (-124G) used to describe an F1 accident. The driver was injured but not incapacitated. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 420 Registered: 2-2003 |
I'm thinking the prettiest car in the new issue of Rosso is that 512S. Oh my, oh my!! | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 275 Registered: 1-2003 |
At what speed was the frontal impact done to generate the negative 124G's??? 143 mph??, 217 mph?? | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 32 Registered: 3-2003 |
Make that NEGATIVE 124 Gs on frontal impact  | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 31 Registered: 3-2003 |
124 Gs on frontal impact (sorry, I couldn't resist) | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 686 Registered: 1-2002 |
F1 cars usually pull: + 3-4 G's lateral - 5 G's decel Shifter karts can pull close to 2 g's on lateral. Was that enzo test done w/ slicks? | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 275 Registered: 10-2002 |
Is that true? If so that is some cornering capability! Anyone know the statistics on real F1 cars? | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2003 |
Are you sure the car wasn't tied to a stake in the ground when they did that? Man that's some cornering power for a street car - and for some racecars. I haven't heard about a spec like that but regret that 2.1 lateral G is air-sickness-bag territory for me. Thanks for the info, I'll be looking forward to getting my copy of Rosso. Andy | ||
| MarkM (Zan)
New member Username: Zan Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2002 |
New Rosso Ferrari just came. There is an article on the Enzo. How about this: The Enzo can negotiate a 656 foot radius turn at 143 mph, with 2.1g |