| Author | Message | ||
| sevag saghdejian (Yellowferrari)
New member Username: Yellowferrari Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2002 |
HEY GUYS HAVE YOU SEEN THE 456 CONV!!! WHAT ABOUT THE 400 I WHICH WAS MADE FOR THE HILTON FAMILY,NOW THAT CAR IS TRIP!!! ALSO THAT'S THE CAR THAT IT HAS WINDSHILD WIPERS ON THE SIDE WINDOWS????????? VERY VERY WEIRD...LAST I SAW IT WAS AT HERITAGE CLASSICS IN L.A. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1360 Registered: 8-2002 |
Cool. Thanks. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 222 Registered: 12-2002 |
"Words: Paul Chudecki, Photography: Michael Bailie" I scanned the 6 pages really quick and I'll email them to you. The article photos are in B/W, so don't expect color. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1359 Registered: 8-2002 |
Please do! BTW, who is the author? | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wayne: Thoroughbred and Classic Cars, November 2001, as I mentioned in my first post on this. Sorry, I thought you knew about it or had it. Want me to email a copy? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1358 Registered: 8-2002 |
De Vroom was an owner/racer with a reputation as a playboy with a wild lifestyle. He owned several significant Ferraris, including the one-of-a-kind "4.9 Superfast" s/n 0719 SA. Steve, who is the author and what magazine is that? I'd like to get a copy. | ||
| Steve Smith (Steve308)
Junior Member Username: Steve308 Post Number: 63 Registered: 2-2002 |
Some more info from an article in a UK mag. They drove the Chinetti Car (8971)in 2001. Their story is that 8971 was the Paris car - shown without engine. Chinetti persuaded Ferrari to complete the car for him - and was even charged for the tooling. It originally had the fuel filler in the rear quarter light - though this was later moved to the C pillar. Agnelli's car 8815 was built AFTERWARDS - and may have actually been bought from Chinetti. This car had the filler in the C post, stainless steel rear spoiler and fabric rather than leather trim. Chinetti's car has also undergone other cosmetic changes to the lights, and the engine spec has changed. When test driven the steering was said to be too highly geared and the suspension too soft Cool story associated with the Chinetti car - Apparently at one point Chinetti sold the car under mysterious circumstances to a guy called Jan de Vroom, who later sold it back to him. Shortly afterwards De Vroom was found murdered - in an empty apartment way up in a New York high rise.... When Police arrived all the doors of the apartment were deadlocked from the inside. Work THAT one out... | ||
| JP Lavigne (Jpl)
Junior Member Username: Jpl Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2001 |
This would also explain why some people have hinted at a third car, yet no one has ever hinted at what this 3rd car's serial number might be. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1353 Registered: 8-2002 |
JP, I'm certain that Prunet's book is missing an important part of the story. The Paris Show car (see pg. 190, center photo) lacked any exhaust, and also did not have the small ventillation slots below the doors, the ventillattion slots on the rear decklid, or the two slots above the rear license plate that are all found on 8971 (see pg. 189). It seems likely that the Paris car was indeed a nonworking prototype. It's also probable that it would have later served as a basis for one of the two working examples. Other than the color, it shares most of its exterior features with 8815, but has 8971's interior. For all anyone knows, it could have been split up and parts used for both cars. | ||
| Alon Dahan (Alon)
New member Username: Alon Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2003 |
Here's a nice article about the 365P Speciale: http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=thecar&content_code=06269562&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=1136057&record=1 | ||
| JP Lavigne (Jpl)
Junior Member Username: Jpl Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2001 |
I am not sure if this clears up anything or just muddies the water...but according to Antoine Prunet's book Fantastic Ferraris. Two were indeed built, at one point it appeared to be called the 365P Guida Centrale, and the Tris Speciale. According to Prunet, they were both ordered by Agnelli, but only one was delivered to him. It is referred to as the first and it was 8815 and it happened in August. The second was delivered in September just in time to be sent to the Paris auto show so I believe 8971 is the Paris auto show car. According again to Prunet, 8971 was sold in the US by Chinetti, who bought it back some 10 years later. It was then later restored back to it's original white by Chinetti Jr. He goes on to say that the original car was mettalic gray with a large spoiler. It was also resold by the factory in about 1970 to an american and i was still there when the book was published (1988). Chassis shares the same characteristics of the 250LM, dimensions however were slightly different with a longer wheel base 2600mm VS 2400mm. 5 spd gear box was similar if not identical to the 330 P3 box. The book has several great pictures (pages 188-193) including Coco in the drivers seat. I believe this is the same car that is at Francois restoration shop as shown in Tommy Yang 330 restoration web site in Conn. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1352 Registered: 8-2002 |
In order to share with everyone else: Received an email from Jeff a little while ago in which he points out... 1. 8971 has two little openings on the rear panel just above the license plate. 8815 does not. The Paris show prototype did not. The white car pictured here with the spoiler does. 2. He believes 8971 had a spoiler installed at some time that was later removed and reinstalled on 8815. The pictures here of the white car with the rear openings and spoiler support that. It also corresponds to the account in C&SC magazine. This brings us to this modified theory: 1. First car shown at the Paris Salon is a non-running prototype (likely based on 0830). 2. A second car is built (8971) that is identical in appearance of the original Paris show car, complete with white paint and black vinyl interior, except that it is sporting a large stainless steel spoiler to improve stability. The spoiler stays long enough for the car to be photographed by Rick McBride in the Mediterranean town of Liguria near Genoa (Forza #14 photo as well as the Car Styling photos)and is later removed before the car is delivered to Chinetti. 3. Sometime after the Paris show, the mockup is used as the basis for 0815, and is the recipient of an engine and several changes to include a spoiler (taken from 8971?), relocated fuel filler, etc. 3. Possibly at the request of Gianni Agnelli, 8815 is repainted silver with the black stripe down each side and the interior is redone in tan velour. The car makes its appearance at the Turin show before being delivered to Agnelli. Okay, now what do you all think? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1351 Registered: 8-2002 |
Okay, openings are out. I hadn't noticed the missing exhaust pipes before. Okay, lets see if this make sense: 1. First car shown at the Paris Salon is a non-running prototype (possibly based on 0830). 2. Following the Paris show, this mockup is used as the basis for 0815, and is the recipient of an engine and several changes (spoiler, relocated fuel filler, etc.) but retains its white paint scheme and black vinyl interior long enough to be photographed by Rick McBride in the Mediterranean town of Liguria near Genoa (Forza #14 photo as well as the Car Styling photos). 3. Possibly at the request of Gianni Agnelli, 8815 is repainted silver with the black stripe down each side and the interior is redone in tan velour. The car makes its appearance at the Turin show before being delivered to Agnelli. 4. Somewhere along the way, a second car is built (8971) and assumes the appearance of the original Paris show car, complete with white paint and black vinyl interior. The car is delivered to Chinetti. Anything I've left out? | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wayne, by the way, the picture of 8815 (red) in Classic & Sportscar, 4/93, page 152, clearly shows the two openings below the front grille. So 8971 and 8815 both have the openings. In some pictures the panel below the grille is painted black, but that must disguise the fact that the openings are there. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 218 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wayne: Let's complicate this some more! Looking at your post of 4/7 11:35AM, you say that the Paris Show car was probably 8971. The magazine article says that 8971 was built from 0830. But!!! The car shown at Paris has no exhaust pipes, and was probably a non-running prototype. If it really was 8971, and 8971 was built from 0830, why wouldn't it be a runner, with an engine and tailpipes? Hmmmm. Next question: if 8971 was built from 0830, what chassis was used to build 8815? Did they build a new P2 chassis just for 8815? Do we know the engine number in either car? I'm supposed to get my hands on a stack of "Quattroruote" magazines from the Sixties later this week, and maybe I can find some more information. Lawrence, did you find the press kit? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1350 Registered: 8-2002 |
Okay, I found another way to distinguish between the two cars. Check out my head-on shot of 8971. There are two openings below the grille. They also appear in the photo of 8971 posted by Mark Collins at the bottom of this thread. All of the "bespoilered" cars on this page are without those openings, just one more thing to suggest that they are all of 8815 and, therefore, that 8815 was white at some point. I think it is easier to believe that the fuel filler on 8971 was moved than it is to believe that it originally has those openings and no spoiler, was later changed to have no openings and a spoiler was added, and then was changed again to openings/no spoiler. Highly unlikely. Then there is always theory number three. As Jeff B. suggested, it could be that the first car shown in Paris was a mock-up. 8815 could have been built from parts of this car (between the Paris and Turin shows?), and then 8971 could have been built later on to look identical to the original mock-up. One problem I have with this is that, if 8815 was white at sometime before it's appearance in silver at the Turin show, then a lot would've had to have happened during those months in 1966. The mock-up would have to have been dismanteled/remantled into 8815, it would've then been sent out to be photographed in multiple locations, and then repainted in time for the Turin show in November. Whadday'all think? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1243 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Tell us, did you ever get to drive the 3-seater, or ride in it? We'd love to hear more about it!!<< Jeff, If I can remember back that far, the car had brake problems and running issues I believe, I'm sure I drove it after finishing the service work, but with Comp Daytonas & Nart Boxers and the like hanging around it doesn't seem that it make an indelible impression in my mind other than the looks and mid engined V12, which of course were so unique and really cool. Will reminded me about the fuzzy interior..which was pretty funky imo, but the seat arrangement was also for that matter..;-). | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 216 Registered: 12-2002 |
JRV: The Dino prototypes were shown in 1965. The 365 3-seater didn't come out until 1966, and it was built on an existing P2 chassis (12 cylinder), so you couldn't really relate the 3-seater to the Dino except that both had similar body styles from Pininfarina. VERY similar. But you can't say the 365 was the father if the Dino came first. Tell us, did you ever get to drive the 3-seater, or ride in it? We'd love to hear more about it!! | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 214 Registered: 12-2002 |
The article in "Classic & Sportscar" says that #8971 has a slightly longer nose than 8815. It may be that very careful inspection of the pictures will show the difference. It also says "Both cars survive, but there's a bit of confusion: there is talk of three cars, but it is possible that the car on the Paris show stand was a non-runner and was then broken up or modified to make the Agnelli car." | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1242 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wayne, the question I'd like answered is; Was this mid-engined V12 Ferrari the Father of the 206/246 DINO series? If so, that might prove DINO's are real Ferrari's. LOL | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1349 Registered: 8-2002 |
Now, doesn't that just confuse things! Looking at my own photos, I just noticed that the fuel filler on 8971 is now located on the sail panel. Go figure. Okay, so did this car have a spoiler at some time? Maybe Fiorovanti was right about upgrades being made to the white car and maybe the spoiler was removed later. I don't know. It's late, I'm tired, and now I'm thoroughly confused. Good night! | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1348 Registered: 8-2002 |
Paul, that would have been s/n 8971. Here are a few of the pics I took of it in Carmel in 2001:    | ||
| Paul DeVivo (Pdevivo)
New member Username: Pdevivo Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2002 |
I saw the car at the Blackhawk Museum in Danville, CA ~ 1-2 years ago and it was white (pretty sure) but I don't remember where it was on loan from. | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 191 Registered: 8-2002 |
i talked to steve foristall today about the 365p. he was the broker that bought the car for mecom. when he bought the car, he remembers it being black, although when i asked about it having been a lighter color, he quickly finished my question by saying "silver". i don't know if it was silver and mecom had it painted very early in his ownership or if foristall is just recalling the photos of the car in silver. foristall said the car had a crushed velour interior and shorty after mecom bought they car, he was talked into painting the car a green color that changed in darkness as you travel from top to bottom (ie- the top of the car was a bright green and the bottom was a forrest green). i can only imagine how this looked. it was after it remained green for a short period of time that the car was painted red. i did not clarify as to what years these colors existed on the car, but generally speaking, foristall has a good memory about these older cars. additionally, he has photos of the car just after the red repaint and it looks much the same as it does today. | ||
| Lawrence Yee (Ferrariguy)
Junior Member Username: Ferrariguy Post Number: 105 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have the presskit on this car with pics somewhere which may shed some light on this. I'll see if I can dig it up. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1346 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jeff: It's widley accepted that the white car at the Paris Salon with the fuel filler in the rear quarter window is 8971. Therefore, when Fiorovanti talks about changes, he must mean that they were applied to the second car (8815), right? BUT, as you state, the chassis numbers and PF job numbers would suggest otherwise. Still, I've seen other chassis numbers and PF job numbers out of sequence due to cars not necessarily being completed in the same order in which the chassis were delivered to PF. JRV: I would assume then that the photo (black w/red stripe) in Keith Bluemel's book was taken while 8815 was with Mecom, hence the Texas plates. Whether it was Keeney or Mecom that had the car painted black (from silver), I don't know, but apparently it was Mecom that had it painted red. The big question is why did PF repaint the car silver? Since the black stripe is uncharacteristic of PF's color schemes, could it have been done at the request of Gianni Agnelli? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1237 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>JRV, I assume you were with Mecom before he purchased the car? << Interesting developments on this quest for answers overnight. Wayne, the 'chronology' as I'm aware of it: Mecon was a very long time Ferrari Fan. In the "70's" (and maybe into the 60's) Sid Simpson was the "authorized Factory "service station", and Mecom was one of his clients, in approx. 1978 Mr. Risi, backed by Arab Oil Magnates opened FoH and absorbed Sid's place, Simpson Automobili, Sid as Parts Manager and all his clients. Lot's of painting was going of Mecoms cars 78-81 while FoH was the main handler of his collection, I came to Houston as Forristalls head mechanic in 81 and Mecom brought his collection care duties over to Forristall shortly after my arrival. To the best of my knowledge the 3 seater was already in the collection (contrary to my previous thoughts) and the first time I saw the car for service it was Red, which would have been late 81, early 82. It'squite possible the car was painted while FoH was taking care of the cars, pre 1980. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 209 Registered: 12-2002 |
I found another feature article (Classic & Sportscar April 1993) and quite a number of other pictures. The car that appeared at Paris in 1966 was almost certainly white, and I have a color picture of the car at London/Earls Court in 1966 that is definitely white. These were probably non-running prototypes. From the C&SC article, it states that Leonardo Fiorovanti was in charge of Pininfarina's prototype construction and testing. He states: "I didn't like the car to drive. I remember we tested it to 270kph but the stability wasn't good. We put a huge spoiler on it and lost 25-30kph on top speed, but stability was improved". Does this mean that the original prototype was modified with a spoiler, or that the second car was being developed for the street while the first one was on the show circuit? Other changes from the prototype to the running version: 1) Front marker lights removed from body and placed above bumper. 2) Vents added below doors. 3) Fuel filler moved from quarter window to sail panel. 4) Vents added to sides of engine lid. 5) Interior rear view mirror added. 6) Parked position of windshield wiper moved from right to left (not totally sure of this). I'm still not certain which car is which in the different pictures. Another curiosity: I read that #8815, the Agnelli car, has Pininfarina build number 99648, while #8971, the Chinetti car, has build number 99667. But Chinetti's car was supposedly built first. It's a great story. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1344 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ah-ha! Check out the last page of Forza #14 (Dec 1998). There it is in white! The photographer doesn't state the date, but does state that he saw a silver car with black stripe a couple of years later. Obviously he still wasn't aware that the two were the same car! | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1343 Registered: 8-2002 |
Looks like the answer is B, more unanswered questions! When was the car white since it was shown in silver at its first public appearance (1966 Turin Salon)? When was the chrome trim around the rear hood bulge added since it doesn't appear in this photo? The earliest photos I have of the car are in silver with the black stripe, no mirrors, and no license plates. The car has the chrome trim around the hood bulge, however. My only guess is that your photos possibly predate the car's public appearance. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 208 Registered: 12-2002 |
Here is the other picture, what do you think of it?  | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1340 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hi Jeff, I'm at home now. Quick question that will either solve this or leave more unanswered questions: In the photo of the left side of the car, is the fuel filler located: A. in the rear quarter window? or B. in the sail panel just behind the rear quarter window? If the answer is A, then it is 8971 with an added spoiler (odd). If the answer is B, then it is 8815 in white (odd) and missing some chrome trim on the rear decklid (also odd). | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 207 Registered: 12-2002 |
BTW - since that is a "PROVA" license plate, it would seem logical that the picture was taken before the car had been delivered to its first owner. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 206 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wayne: What are you doing at work this late on Sunday night? You should be at home looking through Ferrari material! This picture is from "Car Styling #12 Special Number: Pininfarina" dated 12/75. There is another color picture of the left side of the car on the rear cover of the book. | ||
| David S (Djs308)
Junior Member Username: Djs308 Post Number: 120 Registered: 9-2002 |
Perhaps, this was the car McLaren copied when they built the F1 supercar. That's a 3 seater as well. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1337 Registered: 8-2002 |
Aaaarrrgh! I'm stuck at work and very frustrated! BTW, what book did you scan that image from? | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 205 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wayne: This picture would indicate that #8815 was white at some point - originally? Or that #8971 had a spoiler on it at some point?  | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1334 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, I assume you were with Mecom before he purchased the car? If so, then it must've gone from silver to black (I remember now seeing the pic of the car in black as well) and then to red, prior to 1976. Also, someone else must've registered the car in Texas before Mecom. I wish I was at home where I know I have much more info on this particular car! | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1235 Registered: 11-2002 |
Will, I wouldn't bs ya man...I was there with the car in person. There was a repaint in the picture, but before I ever saw the car, therefore, way before Matt saw the car...but that doesn't mean there weren't multiple repaints...don't get me started giving historical realities...;-). Mecom had the car in Red with the stainless steel spoiler or as Wayne called it..= bespoilered/ >>JRV, the bespoilered car that Mecom had was 8815.<< | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 190 Registered: 8-2002 |
in keith bluemel's book FERRARI V12 (1965-1973), there is a picture on page 117 of the 365p in the upper right hand corner in color. the car is black (maybe dark blue?) with a rewd trim stripe and texas plates mvv-634. there is also a picture of the same car in color painted in red. these are not the pics that i am looking for, as i am almost certain that there is a picture of 08815 in its lighter shade parked next to a tree with the same texas plates. regardless, the car went to black before red, the question remains as to when the red color change occured. jrv has an excellent memory when it comes to these older mecum cars, was it already red when he started working on it, or did it become red after the fact? when does jrv first recall the car? | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 189 Registered: 8-2002 |
i have been searching for the life of me, but i can't find the picture in one of the ferrari books of the 365p with teaxs plates. the photo is black and white, but i clearly remeber the car being a light color (ie- not red) such as white- but hard to say with a b&w photo. i will keep looking, i know matt jones of re-originals has a photo of the car on his wall as he worked on it as well. but i believe the car had to be painted after the ownership change to mecum. also, if i am not mistaken, there is a difference between the two cars in that one has a stainless steel spoiler and the other does not. i believe the agnelli car has the spoiler to help with downforce and the chinetti car never had this installed. l. wayne, does this sound remotely possible? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1333 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jeff, your copy of the photo has "Owner: G. E. Keeney" on it and the car clearly has California plates. Keeney (of Irvine, CA) owned the car in the early to mid 70s, prior to Mecom, who purchased it around 1976 or so. JRV remembers the car being red during its stay with Mecom, so that pretty much narrows the time of its repaint to, say, 1975-ish? The car could've been with Fulp sometime just prior to this, unless, of course, the car Dr. Ibrahim saw was actually 8971 (white with black seats). | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 203 Registered: 12-2002 |
I don't believe it!! What timing! | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 202 Registered: 12-2002 |
This is the car in question (#8815), in case anyone wants to see it in silver.  | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1332 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hey, look what I found on the Web! This is 8815 in silver. The seats look to be tan in this photo but I believe they are blue or blue-gray cloth today. 8971 has black vinyl seats.  | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 245 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wayne, I saw this car so many years ago..it was either s grey or silver color with black seats...and my memory may not be serving me right. My understanding was that Mr. Fulp owned and raced several different Ferraris as part of NART (?) and it possible he was just testing that car for a possible purchase???...Mr. Fulp did own a 410 superamerica that was white, but i never saw that car. If I am wrong about the color,well, let me chalk that to bad memory after at least 25 years maybe many more. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1331 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head and all of my stuff is at home (I'm working right now). Was the 250MM a coupe or spyder? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1233 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wayne, You Da Man!!! lol You know, now that I'm thinking back that far (20 yrs, (my how time flies when you're havin fun) I seem to recollect that Mecom bought quite a few cars simutaneously or in a short space of time from one persons collection from N. or S Carolina (or in that part of the country) so it may well have been the car Dr. I saw. Wayne, the list of cars I think associated with the one collection were as follows, (as best I can remember)1 PF Cabriolet, 1 250 MM, Agnelli 3 seater...and a few more I believe...ring any bells??? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1329 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, the bespoilered car that Mecom had was 8815. It was originally silver with a black stripe down the side (I have some old pics at home of the car in its original color) and was later painted red. The white car below is 8971 (still white today). Dr. Ibrahim, what color was the car that you saw? Chances are that it was the Agnelli/Mecom car, s/n 8815. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Junior Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 201 Registered: 12-2002 |
There is a 6-page feature article on this car in the November 2001 issue of "Thoroughbred and Classic Cars, pages 68-73, with 11 pictures. It is also pictured in "Ferrari, the Man, the Machines" (Automobile Quarterly book), page 303, listed as owned by G.E. Keeney, with California plates. This is apparently #8815. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1232 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well, if it had a glass, gold tinted (tinted with real gold) fixed moon roof, red, with 3 seats, it was the car given to Mr,. Agnelli by Ferrari, that was later part of the John Mecom collection I worked on. And yes the car looked almost just like the 206/246 Dino's. I would say it's possible it was intended to look like the Dino's and perhaps have been the design study that Fathered them. | ||
| Bryan Phillips (Bryanp)
Junior Member Username: Bryanp Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2002 |
365P s/n 8971 will be on display at the Chrysler Musem of Art in Norfolk, Virginia (with nine other Ferraris and Louis Klemantski photos) from April 13 through July 20. FCA Mid-Atlantic members are planning on caravaning down to Norfolk on May 17 to check it out. | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 241 Registered: 5-2002 |
the amazing part of this is that i remembered the car looking like aDino, but did not say so. Actually, the reason I started this thread is the other thread with the 12 cylindered Dinos. I am glad that I was not halucinating and that I did see that car...and it did look like a Dino. At that time in my life, I couldn't afford to buy even one wheel for that car...but itleft an impression on me and made me a Ferraristi for life...thanks for the posts | ||
| izel k. (Ferrarist)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarist Post Number: 186 Registered: 3-2001 |
Check out FORZA #34, page 90-91 . 2 small pictures from CI 2001. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 430 Registered: 2-2003 |
Coco used to joke that it was the perfect Ferrari for an Italian gentleman; the gentleman could take his wife and his mistress for a ride at the same time!! Another of the cornucopia of automotive delights I sat in at Chinettis as a kid! | ||
| Gary Reed (Gary_reed)
Junior Member Username: Gary_reed Post Number: 56 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dave, You just like this car because you would be able to cruise around with young "babes" on both sides of you!!  | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1328 Registered: 8-2002 |
Wspeer is correct. There are two of these: S/N 8815 was the 1966 Turin Show car that went to Agnelli. S/N 8971 was the 1966 Paris Show car that has been with the Chinetti family forever and was on display at the Concorso Italiano in Carmel in 2001, where I took a bazillion photos of it! | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 566 Registered: 5-2001 |
You are talking about my most favorite Ferrari of all! I really don't know that much of the history, but whenever I see the picture of one, I am mesmerized. If you go to www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html you will find a post on this car dated 3/20/03. Dave | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 186 Registered: 8-2002 |
i believe there were two of these cars made, one being for agnelli. the car that you are talking of once belonged to john mecum here in houston and the car was here for a number of years. | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Junior Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2002 |
A couple of pics   | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 423 Registered: 9-2001 |
It was at CI in 2001, a beautiful car. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 623 Registered: 8-2001 |
The 365P is pictured in the "Ferrari...The Man and His Machines",by Peter Lyons, page 257. It is white in color. The book states that it is a prototype, part of which went into the design of the Boxer. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 782 Registered: 10-2001 |
!!! this car is now worth around $2 millions ! | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Junior Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 178 Registered: 7-2002 |
1966 365P Berlinetta Speciale built for the 1966 Turin Motor Show | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 240 Registered: 5-2002 |
Eighteen years ago, i bought a house that was built for an avid Ferrari (NART) driver Buck Fulp. Mr. Fulp had a six car garage and a dirt track on the property, in addition to the regular garage where i house my Ferraris now. Mr. Fulp owned and drove many exotic older Ferraris. Many years before I bought the house that he built, I saw him drive and park a Ferrari in the lot belonging to the University Athletic Department. What I can remember about the car ( it was Dino looking) since it was more than 25 years ago, is that it had 3 seats, with the driver seat in the middle being flanked by two passenger seats. Anyone know what that car could have been...it was quite unique looking.. hope someone can tell me what it could have been |