| Author | Message | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 79 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I attended Russell Racing School in Laguna Seca back in 1994, it was a highlight of my life. There was 14 of us and 12 were going racing within a month. Our class was competitive and at the last session we all got to race the wings and slicks car. With Formula Fords you are paid back with smooth driving. The smoother you go the faster your times will be. Road America is one of my favorite tracks and has long straight runs. Concentrate on hitting your breaking points, turn in's and exit points. Remember to look where you want to drive. From my Vintage days the SVRA, VSCDA etc. gave us the correct lines for the track. If you are interested e-mail me your fax number and I will send you info. And be sure to have fun!! | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 471 Registered: 2-2003 |
Sean, you're absolutely right!! My daughter had Happy Gilmore on dvd, and it contaminated my mind!! | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 73 Registered: 2-2003 |
EFWUN you're thinking of "Tin Cup", not Happy Gilmore. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 468 Registered: 2-2003 |
Probably exactly true, Ken. For the public, he is an apparently nice guy, but to other racers, he is a real p***k. Sort of like that Don Johnson character in "Happy Gilmore", he's only nice when the cameras are rolling!! Understand, this was a real shocker and kind of a heartbreak for a 20year old who believed the public hype. GV just said to me, "I told you so!" | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 72 Registered: 2-2003 |
If you have aspirations to make it a career, and the $$, skippy is probably the way to go long term as Chris Parr pointed out. If you just want to have fun, race in a competative environment, learn more about car set up and get your hands dirty, the SCCA is the way to go. Half the fun to me was working on the car. There was nothing like working so hard on something, and having the set up come out so good, you can almost drive with your fingertips. My car looked really good the day before I sold it....sad, sad, sad day for me.  | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 818 Registered: 10-2001 |
A quick note: my wife had lunch with Mario Andretti (and a few other Cart guys; corporate thing in TX) last year and said he was very kind and sweet, unlike a few other CART guys I won't mention. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4303 Registered: 12-2000 |
Another one I like... "Racing, where you can make a million dollars from several million." | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 465 Registered: 2-2003 |
Rob S, I'd add one quote I love/hate: Q: "What's the best way to make a smal fortune in racing?" A: "Start with a large one!" | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 295 Registered: 7-2002 |
great school...did the 5 day with them at lime rock ...3 days racing school, 1 day car control clinic 1 day lapping...car control clinic was very good..got to trash a Viper coupe around the autocross and take the formula dodge out on a wet skid pad (it helped cool us down on the 84plus degree day!) Advice...listen,listen,listen....for lime rock...don't lift in the the diving turn...crunch down to 2nd gear for big bend with the formula dodge (advice given to me by a nascar guy that was taking the course with me) 3rd gear won't get you out of trouble... Don't drive like a maniac when leaving the track to practice the techniques you learned...you will get bagged by the local police... | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 475 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jon, I really enjoyed reading about your experiences on the learning curve of racing. Great advice! Sean, I also agree with your discovery of managing your own chassis rather than rent-a-ride. Totally depends on goals and expectations. "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" - anon "Auto Racing: turning money into heat and noise." - anon | ||
| I can't drive 55 (Sparetireless)
New member Username: Sparetireless Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2003 |
I would sign up for a lapping day immediately following the 3 day class. The class is really quite basic except for the last day, especially the first day moves way too slow. On the third day you can finally drive the car, even then the time on the track is very limited. If you do a lapping day the next day after the class ends you can really fly. I have done the 3 day at lime rock and a lapping day at Laguna and one at Phoenix. The lapping days are for real but still way too short. If you are like I am, older than about 23-25 you have no hope of being up front on the lapping days, you can stil fly but until you get the car going flat out, (you think) and see a 17 year old from Mexico City pass you on the inside and flip you off for blocking him, and then he passes you like you are parked, you have not really felt like you are over the hill. Have fun. | ||
| Dave Mills (360dave)
Junior Member Username: 360dave Post Number: 82 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hugh, you should be set with those shoes and gloves. I presume you have a helmet also. They will lend them out, but who knows how they fit, where they've been, etc. I did the 3-day racing school, in the formula dodge cars. Each day includes class time and driving time, and is very focused (e.g. each lap you stop, and talk on a radio to an instructor who's out on the track watching what you do). Great stuff, and it's got me hooked enough that I went down to Sears Pt this weekend to chat with the open-wheel guys... You'll get a significant discount on their rates if you register during a big-time event at the track. We've got 2 more events at Laguna this year. 6/1 (sunday in June!) and 12/5 if you're interested - http://www.ncracing.org/ Dave | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 556 Registered: 8-2001 |
Chris, I saw where Paul Edwards (Grant's Red Bull Teamate) got a good result in his first Nissan Telefonica race. I have not seen much reported on Grant lately other than some testing news with his new team Jenzer Motorsport in Formula Renault at Valencia. Has he had his first race yet? | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 555 Registered: 8-2001 |
Can't really say I know him well enough to make a claim either way. In my case I was introduced by a personal friend of Michael so he may have been polite as a gesture to my acquaintance whom he is good friends with. I did chat with him for more than a few moments which went beyond the usuall "fan" greeting and while he may have been totally disinterested in what I had to say he didn't lead on to it. I guess most of these guys get approached so many times that it becomes a hassle. That being said I have met some who were absolutely the nicest people on earth such as D.Bell and Hans Stuck (whom I got a ride with in a 959) and Parker Johnstone (whom I also got a ride with in a GTP car). My best experience was last year with 4 time Speed World Challenge Champion Micheal Galati of Champion Racing. The Audi Club of North America was holding it's National event at Summit Point Raceway and Michael was flown out by Audi NA to attend for a day. He gave everyone rides in their cars and spent the whole day talking with everyone. He drove my Challenge car for a few laps in one of the last run sessions but there was so much traffic (slow traffic as most were Audi street cars) that he really couldn't get a fast lap in. I said no problem I just enjoyed the ride with a race celebrity. In fact a friend was timing Michael and whe was about a second or two slower than my lap times in traffic. No big deal I thought, he's never driven here and he is in someone else's 100K play toy. After we got out he commented how much fun he had driving a real race car. He hates the Toyo street tires that the Speed guys had to run last year and commented how nice it was to run a car on real race rubber (this year the Speed guys are running Toyo race rubber). Much to my surprise he approached me about a half hour later and said the event organizers agreed to let him take the car out with me in it with no other cars on the track when the last run session was over. I was blown away. Here he had been giving rides all day and clearly looked tired and he was still willing to go back out. He blew me away with his speed. He was instantly running lap times that were identical to the lap record at Summit Point and in someone else's car and at a track he had never driven before. I can do 1:19's when everything is perfect with the car (most of the time 1:20's and 1:21's are the norm) and the lap record is a 1:17.34. He was doing consistent 1:18's on worn tires. At dinner that evening he made it a point to come over to my table and tell me to stop by the Champion trailer at the VIR race a few weeks late. This where I met D.Bell another stand up gentleman. A truly nice guy. Quite refreshing when I see all the spoon fed 19 year old kids in F1 who can't even say two words at a press conference. I guess it depends on how you got to the big time. Galati started out racing old beat up Honda Civics in SCCA. | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 579 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ditto on the Andretti's, never heard a kind word spoken. Derek Bell is a class act, my favorite racer, and almost a good friend! (Do not see him often enough) As for Skip Barber, excellent, my adopted son is Grant Maiman, go to www.grantmaiman.com and see what doors Skip Barber opened for him. Chris | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 459 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jon, I'm sorry, but the Andrettis are not my favorite people, really not nice guys with the exception of John. I first met Mario after my rookie of the year season in Atlantic. GV introduced me because he knew I was a fan of Andretti, and MA was extremely discourteous. He turned away in the middle of shaking hands with me, and mumbled something like, yeah, kid, great, whatever . . . Stand up, unpretentious guys like GV, Scheckter and Derek Bell later told me that MA was always like that. Sorry, but that is my opinion. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 553 Registered: 8-2001 |
Efwun, Interlaken Inn is still there (Lime Rock) and is still very nice in the summer time. Siebkens at RA is even better. I used to stay there during CART weekends and all the CART guys stay there. You can bump shoulders with them in the bar. I actually got to talk with Michael Andretti one year for a few moments and got my picture taken with him. Nice guy. Jon | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 552 Registered: 8-2001 |
Noel, Some of what Sean says is true, some of what others say is true as well. That being said I have done both. I initially took a Skip Barber Three day race school and then followed up with the car control clinic and several lapping days before doing a few race weekends. I ended up doing one SCCA school and then racing with SCCA at the Regional and National level the past year and a half with a Spec Racer Ford and am now contemplating a move to Formula Continental or Formula Mazda and waiting to get my Pro license. If you have no prior racing experience or have never been on a track then Skip Barber is the way to go. They go very slowly through all the basics and assume you know absolutely nothing about racing or track driving. it's a very laid back atmosphere and they make sure you learn everything in stages. I took the school having hundreds of days of track events but felt like I learned a lot and at a slower pace that I could handle. Instructors were first class and I became friends with a few of them. There were some people in my group who had never been on a track before and I could tell they were not overwhelmed by everything. I didn't need to take the SCCA school as successful completion of the Barber school (3 Day race) qualifies you for a regional SCCA license. However I wanted some seat time in my new car (SRF) which I had never driven and some idea of how a SCCA race weekend works. At first they wouldn't allow me to take the school due to my prior race weekends with Barber the year before but I knew the chief steward in my region and he let me in. If you have never been to a track or have no previous race experience let me clue you in. Don't go to the SCCA school. They say it's for beginners but the school I attended was made up of mainly racers from other series, racers who hadn't raced in a few years, and folks migrating from track days. Only about 25% of the folks there had never been to the track. At an SCCA school you are thrown to the wolves and are mixing it up with folks twice your skill level and five times the speed. In my group we had Formula Vee's running 1:35 lap times, SRF's running 1:27-30 lap times, and FC, FF, and FA cars running 1:10's. Huge discrepancy of speed and skill. By the end of the school we had about 7-8 really bad crashes in my group mostly from rookies not paying attention to the faster cars coming up on them. There was little talk of proper heel n' toe, correct line, and such. I was glad I took the school and did perfectly fine winning my class in the final race and finishing second overall behind a FA car but I can't image taking that school having never been on a track before. I would have likely peed my pants and went home early. When you leave Skippy school you have all the tools necessary to start racing but in my opnion you haven't actually raced yet in a full blown environment. My biggest criticism is their five practice starts which are a joke. You cross start finnish and can't pass after you reach the braking zone in turn one at Lime Rock. At an SCCA school you do practice starts all the way to turn 5 at Summit Point. I guess the biggest difference is that one school teaches you the basics of how to race and the other one teaches you to race in a RACE environment. As for comparison between the racing in Barber and SCCA there is simply no comparison. Barber has some talented folks that come up through their program but unless you race at their National level with the Forumla Dodge or Barber Pro series the regional series is pretty weak in my opinion. Yeah there will be one or two hotshoe karting kids in the series but they end up leaving for greener pastures and the middle or the pack to the back don't have near the talent you will get in an SCCA race. I had never raced before in my life and was able to qualify 5th, 7th and 3rd in my first three Skippy races and had a best finish of 3rd place. The guys who won the races and consistenly qualified in top 3 or 4 were no doubt people who will one day race professionaly and have more talent than I will ever have but the folks from position 5 on back didn't impress me or give me much trouble. My first few races in SCCA were an eye opener. I expected to come in at the regional level and maybe get a few top five finishes and some good qualifying runs. First five races I had a best finish of 12th in SRF and best qualifying of 9th. the average field for these five races was about 32 cars. The guys up front were nearly 2 1/2 seconds per lap faster and this was only a regional not a national race. I eventually worked my lap times down to about 1 second and half on the leaders but still have plenty to learn. At Skip Barber I was also off by at least 2 seconds on the front runners but still managed to qualify and win inside the top 5. The gap between the pole and the last car at Skippy is about 7 to 8 seconds in a good 20+ car field at a place like Lime Rock. At the last National I did we had just 4 seconds between the pole and the last place car which was a field of 41 cars. The top 10 were seperated by less a little over one second. I also felt that the Skippy school cars were too soft but that is be design I guess to allow students to reach the limits early. Same goes for the Michelin street tires. The actual race series car which ran on slicks seemed a bit better but still way too soft for a race car. I was also disapointed that their is literally no setup involved and no changes to be made to suit driving styles. The wings on the Skippy race cars provide no downforce and are merely for astetics. If you want to have some fun racing and don't harbor any professional intentions or any intentions to go to higher series and don't want to fool with working on cars and trailering than Skippy is not a bad series. However, I knew from the start that I wanted to eventualy move on to higher forms of racing including open wheeled competition. I knew right off that I didn't have the talent to run in the Barber Pro Series or make it to CART so for me it seemed logical to get into SCCA and work my way up there. The biggest problem with Skippy is that you learn nothing about setup and this limits you if you then want to go onto Formula Continential, Formula Mazda, or Formula/Toyota Atlantic. I stated out with SRF's to master car control and learn race craft. I wanted a cheap class to learn this as I didn't want huge crash damage bills that a Formula car entail. I had several off track excusions that totalled about 5K my first season in SCCA. A formula car would have trippled that amount. I also wanted to race car without any wings and downforce to begin with. I though about Formula Ford but SRF was cheaper even though there is less suspension setup involved. I am now going on to some type of Formula car with wings and hope to be somehwat competitive at the regional level. Bottom line is that Skippy school is a great place to learn for first timers and a great place to have fun with minimal hassle of working on a car, setting it up, or trailering it all over the place. If you find out you have some professional level talent (which will be apparent to the folks at SB at your first school) then the folks at Skippy will help you climb the ladder. However if you don't have that God-given Senna like ability I think Skippy school is good place to start for first timers but ultimately you will learn more in the long run racing in SCCA which I beleive is more competitive and hard nosed. Just my two cents worth. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 1988 BMW M5 Club Racer #44 1998 SCCA Spec Racer Ford #6 2003 FM or FC ?? | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 457 Registered: 2-2003 |
Oh, Sh*t, you asked about Elkhart!! Sorry, if Siebkins is still there, that is the ONLY place to stay. Again, 20 years ago, but bratwurst on their porch is the Road America experience (after the race of course, spewing brats on the false grid is really "gnarly!") | ||
| will h (Willh)
New member Username: Willh Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2003 |
Agree completely w/Sean on learning, not necessarily on relative cost! I ran in Skippy's race series to get to a variety of tracks, Laguna, Sebring, Lime Rock, Road America. But I really didn't start to learn set-up until I bought a formula car and ran arrive and drive w/a prep shop that provided car prep, car transport, driver coaching and data analysis. The game became 3 dimensional, shocks, bars, camber, caster, toe, wings, etc etc, much more car than driver, at least in my case! Budget & time available, as well as tolerance for the hassle of car ownership, how over the top do you really want to get with a hobby, are everything, I suppose. Road America one of my favorite tracks, the carousel, the kink and Canada corner one of the best complexes in north america IMO. Have a blast. | ||
| Mark Lindman (Markl)
New member Username: Markl Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2002 |
Sean, No question there are cheaper ways to go racing, but for someone looking to get maximum seat time with no bull •••• feed back on how you are driving, there is no better way to learn then with Skip. The cars are very well prepared and very stout. The racing is ultra competative and a total drivers series. If something gets bent you don't have to stay up all night fixing it or pack it up for home, you jump in another car, pay the accident deductible and keep racing. Just another way to go racing when you have limited time and want to spend it on the track. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4296 Registered: 12-2000 |
I agree with Sean to a certain extent. That's what I did, although as I can afford it I want to go through some of the pro schools mainly just for the experience of arriving and driving at distant famous tracks. Alan may just be doing it for that reason, money isn't an object and he doesn't want to deal with the constant headache (other man's fun) of maintenance. Many people like Skip Barber just for that arrive and drive ability, although you can do this with SCCA teams too that rent their cars out. My weekend cost is about $400-600. Here's my racing page... www.chicksdigitracing.com | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 66 Registered: 2-2003 |
Alan, The money you're speding on Skip Barber racing would be better spend on buying your own FF1600, or even FF2000 and racing in the SCCA. In addition, the money you spend flying to and from all the schools would cover the cost of a mechanic to prep. it for you. Now, instead of speding all that money and having nothing left, you can spend all that money, and still have your own car at the end of the season. Not to mention you'll get to race on slicks, play with the setup of the car more and race just about anywhere in the US or if you prefer, stay closer to Houston. There's a track in Dallas/Fort Worth, Outside College Station and in Tulsa OK. I speak from experience. I considered doing the skip racing school/racing series and realized I could buy my own car for what it would cost me to do the school AND got to several races. Also, your SB School is enough to quailify your for a regional (maybe National, can't remember) license with the SCCA. Once you get a car, join the club and fill out the paper work, you can race. You don't even need a new car. You can easily find a nice club Ford (FF1600 prior to 1984 I think?) and compete at the regional level. Good ones can be found for less than $10K. One last thing. If you plan to continue racing, stop buying the fancy stuff and get yourself a helmet. There is nothing worse than using a USED helmet safty wise. You can find a nice Bell, or Simpson for between $250 and $800, depending on how light weight you want it. | ||
| noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member Username: Noel Post Number: 169 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks Mark/everyone, it's a done deal, i gave them my credit card #. I can't wait, and all of the positive feedback is very reassuring. | ||
| Mark Lindman (Markl)
New member Username: Markl Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2002 |
Noel, You will have a blast! Most fun you can have with your clothes on. Did the 3 day school 10 years ago at RA and have been racing with Skippy 3-4 weekends a year since. Stay at the 52 Stafford in Plymouth. Great Irish pub, good food and very nice staff. I'll be at the May 31-June 1 Race weekend and will look for you. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 697 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dave- Thanks for the tip. I'm currently using the Sparco Replicat (non- nomex lined) as my driving shoe, but was told that a nomex sock would suffice (should there be a requirement.) My sparco gloves, on the other hand, are nomex lined, and FIA approved. Did you do the 3 day school? I just ran LS w/ the nor cal shelby club. What a great track! Are you hosting any events at LS w/ your group this year? Regards. | ||
| Dave Mills (360dave)
Junior Member Username: 360dave Post Number: 81 Registered: 1-2002 |
I just finished the SB Laguna Seca school a couple weeks ago. You'll love it. You can wear any shoe that works for driving (ie, is narrow with a fairly thin sole). Nomex isn't even discussed. So get some driving shoes, or worst case some wrestling shoes. Do not wear regular sneakers, your shoe will cover too many pedals.  Dave | ||
| Alan Ma Wong (Alanmawong)
New member Username: Alanmawong Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2002 |
I started doing Skip Barber about a year and a half ago and I love it. My only complaint is that they don't race anywhere near Houston so I always have to fly there. My next event is a race this weekend at Daytona. Includes a special class on drafting. It's so much fun that I am using money that is supposed to be going toward the 328 fund. They provide/require the minimum when it comes to safety gear (helmet and single layer driving suit). I have bought my own racing shoes, gloves, neck collar, balaclava and arm restraints. The balaclava is good so you don't have to put your uncovered head into a previously well-worn helmet! The Interlaken is still there, I stayed there back in August. It's OK, but it could use a little updating. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 696 Registered: 1-2002 |
Do they require Nomex lined driving shoes, or can you get away w/ a non-lined shoe while wearing nomex socks? I'm planning on doing this school this summer at Laguna Seca. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
Member Username: Efwun Post Number: 455 Registered: 2-2003 |
Is the Interlaken still there? I guess my memories are literally 20 years old, so it may be a dump by now. Wasn't too desperate back then. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 925 Registered: 10-2002 |
A nice 15 min. drive. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 879 Registered: 12-2001 |
Troutbeck? Troutback? Yep, i remember that place. Stayed there once when i was visiting friends in Stamfordville. Didn't realize it was that close to Limerock. Liked the Mayflower in Washington Depot, but that's not super close either. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 924 Registered: 10-2002 |
Stay at the Troutback Inn near Lime Rock. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 878 Registered: 12-2001 |
Get rested before you go; stay in as comfortable a place as possible while attending. (The motels near Limerock left something to be desired). It was in the high 90's when i took the 3 day course; dunno what the weather will be like where you are, but the more comfortable, well rested etc you are, the better you will perform. Also, if you don't have good driving shoes, this may be the time to invest in them, along with an appropriate helmet. | ||
| Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 250 Registered: 3-2002 |
Good advice all around. I just completed the school. The only other advice I would give is rent a car, stick shift, and teach yourself how to double clutch down shift, and upshift. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4288 Registered: 12-2000 |
Follow instructions and no matter how much previouse experience you have, don't brag about it or act like you do. Don't worry, if you already have skills, everyone will know right away. Heard too many stories of someone going to a driving school and acting like a hot shot because they've raced before or maybe even did a couple autocrosses. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 459 Registered: 11-2002 |
Have fun Noel, great school. Advise? Listen to your instructors. You'll have a blast. I have friends that have done their schools, competed with their Formula Ford series, they all loved it. The only negative I've encountered is only that some believe that Skippy doesn't teach trail-braking well, but I consider that a very minor criticism. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1021 Registered: 1-2002 |
Drink lots of water all day long each day. And NO burritos. Have fun!    | ||
| noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member Username: Noel Post Number: 164 Registered: 2-2003 |
I signed up for the 3 day racing school at road america(Wisconcin). Anyone have any advise on what to do/what NOT to do? Anything in particular to look for or avoid? |