| Author | Message | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2003 |
Carb cars for me. Do I have an amen? If the car didn't run so darn lean without the air cleaner I would leave it off permanently and put cheesecloth in the air scoop. That sound is sooooooo sweet. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 584 Registered: 5-2001 |
Matt, I don't have the car anymore. I think it was 25748, that rings a bell, and it was definitely an Oct 78 build date. I miss that carb sound, it really sounded more Ferrari-like when you stomped on it! Esp with no cats and the K&N! | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3670 Registered: 8-2002 |
David, What's you chassis number? Mine is 24825, June 78 build. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3669 Registered: 8-2002 |
David, Not sure the make and model but It was dyno'd after a tune up prior to a smog at blackhorse motors in LA. They corrected the HP to 252 at the flywheel. Matt | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 583 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh and Matt, my car was a california car too, delivered in San Diego. :-) | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 582 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW Matt, what type/brand of chassis dyno was used for your test? Wow, we better start a new thread... :-) | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 581 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well there ya go, we have one that is an anomally. But see, that is quite strange, that corrects to over 250 hp, which is way out of line with USA specs, in fact more with the euro cars which were rated at 255. I'd like to see more folks chime in with their results. I believe your results, I just do not agree that this is typical, correct or common to the 78-79 cars. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3667 Registered: 8-2002 |
David, My car is BONE stock and I got 215 at the wheel with cats for a Calif test only smog check. Matt | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 580 Registered: 5-2001 |
Chris, I am no expert, (Steve Magnusson IS, in my book)but here a few of the differences between 76-77 308's and 78-79 308's (USA): Cams, carb jetting(later cars are leaner), exhaust (thermo reactor versus cats), air pumps. The 78-79 cars lost hp do to more stringent emission requirements in the USA. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3666 Registered: 8-2002 |
My car had 215.6 at the wheel in Nov. 78 carb | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 80 Registered: 2-2003 |
Ferrari did build some 1980's carb cars, but I think they were only for the European market. | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 590 Registered: 3-2002 |
Bob, no, this is a carb car, not A FUEL INJECTED CAR. So it is a 1979 model. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1111 Registered: 3-2001 |
Just noticed the build date (picture) on this car is October '79. The build date on my 328 is October '88 but my car is titled as an '89. Wouldn't that make this a 1980 model year??? | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 589 Registered: 3-2002 |
Dave, thanks. I am not sure what the answer is. When you posted your hp figures before, I thought they were incorrect, but not so confident that I challenged them. I guess I was relying in the same book as John, what is the difference between a 77 and a 79? Thanks, Chris | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 579 Registered: 5-2001 |
Chris, Chassis dyno, but I made the correction. The actual rear wheel hp was 178. The shop said to factor 17% driveline loss....If you use 15% then it is only 209. But they have found that 17% for the Ferraris seems to correlate well. | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 587 Registered: 3-2002 |
Dave, is that an engine dyno or chassis dyno? If it is a chassis dyno your car at 214 at the rear wheel in making about 246hp at the flywheel. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 578 Registered: 5-2001 |
JohnR, sorry to disagree but that Bluemel's book has several factual errors, that being one of them. If you read the period articles from R&T and C&D you will see that the car is spec'd at 205hp. Further, I have seen four 78-79 308's (USA)on the dyno, and none of them did anywhere close to 240hp except for John Miles well "massaged" and updated/modified car. This includes my previous 78 308 which had a fresh service, new wires, extenders, no cats, K&N and rejetted carbs and it made 214 hp. This was after extensive dyno tuning. I posted this before, and have yet to see anyone with the dyno charts to prove me wrong. After all, why would Ferrari post less hp for their car. One interesting note, FNA (NOW0 states on their website that the later carb cars made 240 hp...which only further confuses people into thinking their cars make 240 hp. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 177 Registered: 1-2002 |
david handa, According to my calcs the US 78-79 carbed 308's (F106AE) motors had 240 hp not 205 which was the hp of the 1980 and later injected US cars. These figures are in the book "Original Ferrari V8" | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 318 Registered: 4-2002 |
$37.5k... if you want a museum piece that may be about right. If you desire a driver i'd pass on it in a heartbeat for a 35k+ miles 84-85 QV. Just my humble 2 Yen, Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| melo yelo (Meloyelo)
Junior Member Username: Meloyelo Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2002 |
I will pass on it. I want something a little more sorted out. It does appear to be a nice example for someone wanting an FCA Concours car. With a little work, it could be there. I think it will easily go for mid 30s, however I would only go as high as 31. Not sure about anything appraoching high 30s. But if someone is a do it yourself type, maybe. my | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 76 Registered: 2-2003 |
Chris, I agree that would be a nice car. Except for the following... I've decided my first needs to be red (although, both you and Scott's yellow cars looked really good on Saturday). The price is already at my budget limit. My search is in somewhat of a state of limbo until I get some personal business take care of with regards to my job. By the way. Kevin REALLY liked your car. He was running all over the house on Satuday playing, in his words, "The F-40 Game". It was hysterical. He and Matthew were running around with their hands on pretend steering wheels and talking like commentators on Speed Channel. | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 586 Registered: 3-2002 |
Sean! I was going to call you tomorrow! This is your car! Tell your wife you love her but.......... lol This would be a great 1st car! | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 75 Registered: 2-2003 |
Chris, I think that car would look really good on the Yellow flow with the Ferrari emblem underneath it in your new shop! | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1110 Registered: 3-2001 |
***** OK... the $Million Question. ***** Forget whether or not it hits the reserve price. What do you think the final BID will be when the auction closes on Monday??? I'm guessing $37,750. | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 585 Registered: 3-2002 |
I almost had a Car-B-Q story! I had a '77 308 GTB, I had just had a major service including rebuilding the carbs. I lived in Oklahoma but I dove over to Arkansas for a few miles of excellent roads. Once in Arkansas I filled up at the begining of the curviest section. I had only gone about 7 miles when I realized I had already burned a 1/2 tank of gas! I was hauling but hey, I knew I had a problem. I pulled into a little country store and before I could shut the motor off I had gas all around the car pouriong off the engine! After turning the car off and on a few times I realized the fuel inlet to the back carb (of course) had fallen off! I called my wife, who called the mechanic who gave dana a new carb fitting and after 5 hours on the side of the road Dana showed up. Have you ever taken the entire air cleaner assembly off with just the tools in your tool pouch? a damn slow job! 2 months later, I had a 348! So, like old girl friends, you always forget the bad and remember the good! | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 576 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh and Chris, I take it you have a personal "Car-B-Que" story to tell? :-) | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 575 Registered: 5-2001 |
I hear ya Chris, but the 78-79 carb 308's (North American) were way down on power, only 205 hp, same as early FI cars. Really need to get the early 76-77 carb 308's (240hp) or the later 83-85 QV cars (230-235hp) I like the 84-85 cars as that were the first 308's with rust proofing from the factory. | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 584 Registered: 3-2002 |
Dave, would agree with you on FI, just looses too much power and the great noises that a carb car makes. But I have carb horror story that requires me to defend your opinion! | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 574 Registered: 5-2001 |
The seats look about right for the mileage, consider that the car is probably sat in a bunch (picture owner sitting behind wheel making "vroom-vroom" noises), even if not driven, and cleaned occaisionally too, which WILL remove some of the dye. I bought a 15k mile garage queen (fully documented) and it had considerable wear on the driver's seat-back bolster. The paint is known to fail on the early cars (bad primer) so it may have been repainted completely or in places.... I'd have to agree with Chris, if you really want the nicest carb 308 around, this is probably the best car to start with. I don't see more than 5 or 6k worth of work to get it ready for the street. Of course there can always be surprises... :-) Personally, I find the FI cars to be better drivers. They don't sound as nice, but they operate more like a "modern" car... | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 583 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jordan, it can be pretty tough to tell. We have a guy here in kansas city that had a 328 for 13 years and only put 1,800 miles on it. So this could be real. The surface dyed leather can show wear with even the smallest of mileage. My 308 was a 1 owner with supposed orginal paint but it was starting to show some signs of cracking, so paint can be deceiving. I just happen to like this car because my first F car was a yellow 308 GTB that I regert selling. I think, from its description, it could make somebody an excellent 1st Ferrari.. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 659 Registered: 12-2002 |
Cant tell...It really was clean with the exception of the seats. Maybe hte owner just had a hard time getting out  The no service kind of makes me question it too...It aparantly hasnt had anything. I dont know what the write up on ebay says so I cant compare it... | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 582 Registered: 3-2002 |
OK Jordan, is it a nice car or a fake? If it is as described, its a deal, if it is a odometer disconnect car, send it to Florida and let those guys sell it! (Sorry Martin, I know you would not do that!) Damn, I was having fun! Oh well.......... | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 581 Registered: 3-2002 |
OK, so $35k buys it, $4-6k on service and you have a Platinum car at Cavallino. you could not buy an average 308 at $25,000 and get it to this level for the same money. This car is cheap, if you want the nicest 308, too much money if you are just going to drive it? I do not know, I always say there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Ferrari! (or airplane or boat!) | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 658 Registered: 12-2002 |
I should add, for the cars supposed miles, the seat were awful worn through. The guy also said it was the cars original paint but I could see evidence that may be against that. It only has one service record with it...aparantly the only thing done to it while the owner had it were oil changes. The guys at that dealership really are nice but I just think this car isnt worth it. They do however have a nice 456 and a 412 that have been sitting there a while. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 657 Registered: 12-2002 |
I just looked at this car in person today. It really is VERY clean, but the sales guy told my that it hasnt had a major service *EVER* so it is in need of one. Not only that, but its priced high at 37,9. Run | ||
| Chris Parr (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 580 Registered: 3-2002 |
I would feel very comfortable looking at this car, it may need some services, but $15,000, I do not think so. My first Ferrari was a '77 308GTB with only slighly higher miles, I spent just over $6,000, including the clutch to do everything mentioned earlier. The carb cars are certainly preferable to the injected cars, while it is difficult to put a price on car such as this, mid to high thirty's would still be ok, what is it worth to have the nicest, unrestored 308 GTB? mmmmmmmmm I do have a spare slot in the new garage, I wonder if Dana would notice? | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 573 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh, and I just noticed the tires have been already replaced with modern rubber, they are Michelin MXV 4's, a decent HR speed rated passenger tire (typically found on Honda Accords) | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 572 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW, I think your money would be better spent on a later 84-85 QV. You can find nice ones for low to mid thirties and that would be a better driving car all around. Fuel injection, power door locks, 16" wheels, and a number of other small refinements over the earlier cars. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 571 Registered: 5-2001 |
Based on my "eyeball" look at the photos, and wear spots, the mileage looks legit. Do remember that the later carb cars (78-79) only make 205hp. As others said, you will likely need a 15k service and all the coolant and fuel hoses replaced. Potential areas of concern would be the carbs (may need rebuilding), distributors (may need advancer work), and maybe some of the oil pan or shifter seals might start leaking (not a huge deal). Air con would need to be checked too. Oh, and anything beyond bvld cruising would mean new tires too. The car is probably worth in the low to mid thirties (a guess) as you don't find cars like this very often. If all the services were included (not likely) then it may be worth high thirties to low forties. I've seen plenty of higher mileage 308's, and it is difficult to hide the miles, no matter how much money you throw at the car. Take for example the seats. They have the right patina and bolster wear of a low miles car. They don't look brand spanking new, but not all worn out and resprayed either.... Just my .02 | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
New member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2003 |
How could someone only drive this car .45 miles perday not counting leap years? I wish I could live to see this car hit 20,000 miles. Erik | ||
| Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member Username: Ron328 Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2003 |
A gorgeous 308. Looks really nice in yellow (the word "nice" is an understatement). However, this car will probably be a driver's nightmare. Unless the final price includes a recent major and "some more" services, I'll stay away. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
Junior Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2003 |
Correction, Those are new, probably just to get it running. A retorical question, how would YOU know it wasn't 137,000 well maintained miles. Anybody can short stamp a maintenance book. How WOULD YOU KNOW? DJ | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
Junior Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 122 Registered: 2-2003 |
I noticed the plug wires were red. Stock color? The wires on my 78 GTS appeared to be original and were a dark green color. DJ | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 609 Registered: 5-2002 |
I agree w/Don... No car should really sit for that long.. May cost a great bit of $$ to bring to road worthiness.. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3655 Registered: 8-2002 |
Melo, It would need a Major and then some. Tires, brakes, every drop of fluid changed, carbs rebuilt, possible clutch, suspension work (shocks, bushings) the SB's done, possible transwork. A basic rebuilt. IF the work was done. mid 30-to 40K Without work. Mid 20 to 30. It's going to need about 15k in work to make it a driver again. | ||
| melo yelo (Meloyelo)
Junior Member Username: Meloyelo Post Number: 54 Registered: 5-2002 |
The price will be in the mid to high 30s - which I think is a little high. Maybe if that included the service. Am I wrong? No oil leaks at all. But if you start driving it, I guess that could change quickly. I am somewhat interested in the car, but would prefer a QV or 328. A carb model is my third choice. But the color is right. Any thoughts on this car? my | ||
| william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member Username: Wspeer Post Number: 199 Registered: 8-2002 |
the reduced speedometers were required for vehicles manufactured as 1980 models. ferrari doesn't normally stick to manufacture years, so all vehicles manufactured after 1/80 should have the 1980 speedometer. i am not sure when the rules changed back, but i believe it was in late 1981. | ||
| melo yelo (Meloyelo)
Junior Member Username: Meloyelo Post Number: 53 Registered: 5-2002 |
the 79s I have seen have all had the full speedo. I think it was 80 where that started but I could be wrong. Considering this car needs a full service, what is a fair price? Assuming all other stuff checks out? Matt - What is a "lot of work"? my | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 491 Registered: 9-2001 |
Shouldn't a 79 have a 80 mph speedo? | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3654 Registered: 8-2002 |
Looks nice.....BUT It needs A LOT of work to make it a driver again | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 433 Registered: 2-2001 |
I do like yellow 308s! | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 69 Registered: 2-2003 |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2410506715&category=6212 wow, only 3700 miles. |