| Author | Message | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 380 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bert, I'm interested in your replica process. You mention in another post below that the shield will be recessed due to the amount of filler you are going to use ... I assume to widen or flare the arches. Is it your intention to then use these filled guards as molds for fiberglass guards or are you going to run with the filled guards?. I assume you are going to use them as molds, as you will have wheel clearance issues ... unless you hack out the real guard and leave the filler unsupported ??? Plus making fiberglass molds is easy and fairly cheap (if you do not want to do it yourself). I had a mold made for an Alfa Sud bonnet many years ago and it was dead easy and cheap. Pete | ||
| Bert Kanters (Bert308)
New member Username: Bert308 Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin, I never planned to put a GTO badge on my car, after all it will keep the removable roof. Also it is only 4 inch wider and not 8, 17 inch wheels instead of 16, I don't plan the vents in the front hood and the rear hatch will be unchanged, I thought about joining the C-pillar to make it one piece, with the hatch opening only in between, looks much cleaner but then I though about all this cutting and welding in an area that is exposed to rain, heat and flexing -> rust. On the back it will have 308 and a black horse. I recognized the Carpenter kit on your car, but I have to say he took a lot of extra effort to get the details right. But nevertheless, I can see in a second, from any angle that it is not a GTO, the general appearence doesn't say "GTO" to me, no offence meant but it is because I can dream GTO, studied hundreds of pictures from both real and fake GTO's before I started my "project".  | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2002 |
Martin, just love that rebody! Beautiful! What is in the former trunk space? Anything? Engine mods? How did the 1/4 window engine intakes get installed? I take it they had to move the fuel filler neck and recess the window pane? Is the engine cover fibre glass? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4318 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hm, I know the 288 and F40 frame is very similar. Well, I guess I am wrong here then. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 505 Registered: 11-2002 |
One of the first things I learned while working with Ferrari was the strong family resemblances under the skins of 206, 246, 308 series, TR, Mondial, 288, F40, 348, 355, etc. The frames are incredibly similar, but this makes sense for a business that must keep manufacturing cost in line to make a profit. It's good, solid, proven engineering practice. Also, I agree the wheel base stretch is to accommodate the longitudinal drive train. Those components cannot shrink, and one must achieve proper axle alignment, hence the stretch. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4316 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bert, here are some shots of the 288GTO I have for sale. We will actually close this deal today. My understanding is the frame is not the same. There were a lot of mods done to it and it only bears resemblance to the 308. Doors are not the same as the 328. Different latch as well as the outer door panel is different on the real GTO. On this conversion that we have the base car is a 308 GTS (yes S) and the conversion was done by Jim Carpentier whoi I am in contact with. he has done an outstanding job in this conversion. I am very impressed. Bert, you will have to lose the trunk space to do the right thing. If you do not do the conversion right with the hood opening and the C-pilar I woulld not put GTO stickers on it. Leave the 308 stickers and just have a great looking 308GTS.        | ||
| Bert Kanters (Bert308)
New member Username: Bert308 Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2002 |
Branko, I'm still not sure about the vents. It is a lot of work to make it look convincing, then I have to think of a solution to prevent water dripping on my Marelli ignition modules or the rest of the trunk. It is a matter of how much fake do I want, no fake=no vents, a bit fake=vents with some airway to the rear wheels and brakes to suggest extra brake cooling (which is not needed at all in my streetcar) or real fake=vents but closed behind some black mesh cover. Have not decided yet. About the shields, on the picture they are the resin stickers, but I've won 2 real shields on ebay for 80 dollar, they are made in France but the seller can't deliver, promised 3 weeks and it is already 2 months. If the deal fails I will decide on how the rest of the car turns out, to see if it's worth investing $200-350 in real shields. Recessing will be easy, if I stick the sheilds on the metal, the surrounding layer of filler will be enough to have an indent :-) But now let me work on the car, full story when the thing is ready!  | ||
| Branko Medenica (Branko)
New member Username: Branko Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2003 |
Bert, I checked your profile and was also thinking about a 288 conversion. Are you going to cut in the three cooling vents in the rear side fender? Also, I noticed you added a scuderia shield to the side fender. Is it recessed? | ||
| Bert Kanters (Bert308)
New member Username: Bert308 Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2002 |
The reason for mounting the engine longitudinal is indeed easier acces to the gearbox and making enough room for the turbochargers and intercoolers. In the first prototype they used the original wheelbase and a ZF transmission (same ZF as in the Ford GT40 and DeTomaso Pantera) but found there was not enough interior space left, also the ZF was to tall so the engine hood would have to be altered with a bulge. So when Fioravanti and his team started the design, they got an extended 308GTB frame to work on. Also the engineers decided the ZF was to tall, so Ferrari designed and build their own transmission, which made it possible to lower the engine 5 cm, lower center of gravity and a flat engine hood. Interestingly, the GTO was never designed as such, they just started building it on the extended 308 frame, with the given numbers for wheelbase and track. They build prototype panels and if those were oke they stayed on the car (like the 3 vents behind the rear wheel), if not it was changed for something else. Basically same as I'm doing :-) (click profile) The only drawings Fioravanti made were AFTER the prototype was ready, manufactoring drawings. from the book "Ferrari GTO" by Lewandowski | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 313 Registered: 9-2002 |
Martin. It is my understanding that the passenger compartment tub is the same as a 308. The windsheild and door glass are the same as on the 308,288. The pop-up head lights are also the same. The doors also appear to be that of a 328 series car aswell as the gauges. I have read that the reason of the extra 4 inches is because of the trans and also because the rear section was designed to drop out of the car like the TR and 348 etc. The 288 shares a fair amount of parts from the other 3 series cars as far as I can tell. | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 210 Registered: 7-2002 |
Remember the trans on the 308 is under the motor. On a 288, it's behind & dry sump. One reason why the 348 engine sits so much lower (5 inches I think). | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4314 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, you have to clarify your point a little here. The 288GTO although it looks like a 308 on steroids is in fact a complete different car. I mean nothing is from the 308. Not the frame, not the engine not the tranny. There is body resemblance but that is all it is. Some of the design study that Pinninfarina did for the 308 (which was not approved by Ferrari) finally went into the 288GTO, like the front vie of the car and the bolsted sides were directly taken from a design study done by Farina in late 70s for a race car version. When it comes to the frame there is no cross over from the 308. I have never had a 288GTO apart to tell yuou exactly wher ethe differences are but I am told they are substantial. Materials used are greatly different, the engine is different and the way the tranny is mounted is completely different. To your question, the reason for the extra 4 inches is the tranny. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 794 Registered: 10-2002 |
Not totally sure, but I would guess, that you could put the 308 engine longitudinally. You'd probably had to sacrifice the trunk for it. The reason why the GTO was longer was IMHO to make room for the whole turbos, cooler and exhaus system, which is a lot bigger/longer. | ||
| James Adams (Madmaxx)
New member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2002 |
Was the 4" stretch of the 288GTO frame needed to fit the engine/transaxle in a longitudinal layout? Is there any way to mount the stock 3L motor longitudinal (assuming you had a correct transaxle for the application) without this stretch? Firewall pushed forward or "notched" for clearance? Just curious  James |