| Author | Message | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2003 |
Good idea Martin. Let the broker do what they do best and leave the Ferrari-specific stuff to you. Isn't it amazing how much of a "no brainer" it is to airfreight the car versus a ship? Especially when you consider the car rocking back and forth 24 hours a day in the container for a week or so, and the overall length of time it takes to get something from one port THROUGH another. Best wishes | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4453 Registered: 5-2001 |
Andy, I will use a broker in this process. Just wnated to know what the price difference will be between the airfreight and the ship. Dennis, the car was for sale for a while however the owner really was not interested in selling. He had used the car for some lower end competition in the past years. The car itself has an interesting history with known European drivers but was never a #1 car. Ran in the pack up front though, so it is strong. I will be asking $ 75K for the car when it is here. If the car sells in the season good, if not I will spank her around the track dates in Florida throughout the winter myself and sell her next season. I love the paint scheme. The black makes the car look great with the florescent green. Here is the DOT link BTW: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ | ||
| Dennis (Bighead)
Junior Member Username: Bighead Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2003 |
A few comments: 1. Martin, I've seen the pics of that particular car a LOT, over the last two years. The pic (dunno about the actual car) was posted at one giant German dealer's website for a long time, but no further info was available on it. Also stumbled upon pics of it on a couple of other sites; memorable due to the unique paint/color scheme. Glad to hear that it's finally found a home. 2. Frank, the "coke can" rule may or may not be a rumor, but in case you didn't read it, Michael Sheehan wrote two articles for either FML or SCM (I think the latter) on importing an F50 race car, and I dimly recall him discussing the coke can rule in the article. FWIW. 3. I know someone who imported two 355 Challenge cars from Europe, as RACE cars. Don't need conversion, as others here have noted. The problem is convincing the DOT and EPA that the car is a "race car"... having a competition history helps (there are quite a few Challenge cars in Europe that were never raced, used only as street cars). Also, the more race-ready it is, the easier it will be (e.g., no A/C, stripped interior, no soundproofing, etc.). 4. Also as previously noted, ain't no way to convert and certify for legal road use and still make money, not in this market. Interesting thought, though, to import a 355 Challenge for sale to drivers looking for a DE/club event car, or for SCCA racing. Still, with US challenge cars selling for $55k-$90, prices must be REALLY low in Europe for a deal to make sense. Martin, please keep me apprised of the details of the car, and how much you'll be asking for it. I'd love to have a track-only car to play with my friends (tired of getting spanked in my street car). vty, --Dennis | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2003 |
Frank - Thanks for the additional detail and explanation Martin - I had suggested the option of a broker as the simplest "one stop shop" approach. If you would prefer acting as a "contractor" - arranging and supervising the processes, I can understand. Best Wishes, and I hope the car ends up in the Northeast so I might see it at club events. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4451 Registered: 5-2001 |
Okay, here is how it works. For future reference I will post the link to the DOT when I get back to the office. You can import race cars and they do not require conversion. The car has to be clearly a race car with race equipment and possibly even a race history. There are two ways to import race cars: 1. temporary, which Frank's comments will qualify. Pretty much what Ferrari does when the F1 comes to town for a few days. No big deal all you do is post a bond. 2. permanently, which means you have to get DOT and EPA releases. Those require that it is clearly a race car and does not have road-use equipment and has racing components. Roll-bar, seats, fire system, etc. They also would like to see (if available) racing licenses from the importer and past racing history of the car to prove that it truely is/was a race car all its life. You can go past that DOT/EPA release if you have a letter from the manufacturer stating that the car you are importing was built by the manufacturer as a race car and not a road car! On a Challenge Car that may be hard to get, if you are importing a old F1 car I am sure you can get that. Who would want to drive an F1 to work in rush hour every morning  Thanks for all your help guys. Frank, I will contact her. Always had a ting for Valeries. Andy, I actually have a call in with Lufthansa Freight. My dad worked for them for over 40 years. They used to ship cars for employees for cheap but stopped that a few years back  I remember I had a Miata flown in from the US to Germany that way. A good friend of my family is working as one of the head hunchos at Lufthansa Freight in Frankfurt. Maybe that is the easiest way (fast too). | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 230 Registered: 11-2002 |
If you have a problem with the link try: http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cfrassemble.cgi?title=200019 Or go to www.access.gpo.gov - go to title 19 and do a search using word "race" | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andy - That's about right...Lufty charges about $3k per pallet (P-Cars take a pallet each) and about 2K for broker / duty. The coke can rule is a rumor...sorry guys....I have imported (as a licensed customs broker)over 50 cars, including the Lambo series about 5 years ago or so... Cars over 20 years old are exempt from everything and a race car falls into a class which is restricted merchandise or can qualify under what is called a "use" classification which permits it to be used, and only used, for a certain purpose. Depends on what Martin plans to do with the car once it gets here...sounds like re-sale for street use...if so...gotta convert. You can read all about it...CFR Title 19 Part 10 and Part 24. http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=35563115759+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve FL CHB Lic #10050 | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2003 |
Martin, I have a very good friend who imported three Porsche SuperCup Cars this time last year. He had never done it before and used a broker. We both could not believe how inexpensive the process was. The cars were shipped via Lufthansa, all paperwork handled, insured and all taxes and tariffs paid for under $5,000 each car (including air freight)! If you want to contact him, I am sure he would be happy to share his experience and contacts with you. Just let me know. Andy | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4604 Registered: 12-2000 |
You don't have to convert it! If it qualifies as a race car. How it qualifies as a race car I don't know. It's been written about many times in Forza and Cavallino, everytime I've heard about the coke can rule. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 228 Registered: 11-2002 |
Forgot to mention - you can bring the car in duty free for 6 months while looking for a buyer outside the US....or enter the vehicle as a bona fide race car predicated on it never being registered for street use.... | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 227 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin - You will have to convert it...or bring it in as a race car / show car. If you bring it in under race / show: You will need to import the car under a Temporary Importation Bond (called T.I.B.) You will have to get a Customs Broker to issue a surety bond equal to two times duty and value. The broker will issue: 1. CF 3461 & CF 7501 2. Statment why imported 3. Statement that it won't be sold in USA (Consumption not permitted under TIB). The car will be imported under tariff heading 9813 and must be exported after 6 months - no substitution (can't export a different 355). After 6 months Customs will look for proof of Export CF 3495 + Export Declaration. Liquidated damages against bond if you fail to export. They are good at what they do, so looks like you will have to convert. If you want more info, contact customs broker Val-Mar in FLL. (954)252-1224 (I think). Ask for Valerie...she's a real sweethart...all she does is importing of autos and yachts. Tell her you know me and she will take care of you..give you all the prelim info for free. If you need more help after speaking to her, send me a PM. FL | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2401 Registered: 2-2001 |
Martin, want me to test it for you ? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1088 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ross The last year that race cars, with road equiptment: lights, turn signals,horn, etc. were legal to register for road use in the US due to emmission and safety requirements was for all intents and purposes 1967. That's one reason 1967 and earlier racecars are extra valuable. Best Jim | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4447 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ross, in 1996 the federal laws required a OBD2 system to be installed. This is a dioagnistic system so all mechanics can hook their computer on that thing and read what is wrong with the car. Of course you would not bring your car to the gas station next door to diagnose but it was intended for all the other cars. Makes it more uniform and gives options to the owners. Since this is a 1997 it would have to be conformed to that standard which ius very expensive. Conversion (David, help me if I am wrong) is about $25K. Not worth it for this car. As Rob said. This is a track car and meant for that. No interior, no carpets, no AC, they actually put the power steering back in for the 24H race, no radio (just kidding) Seats are bucket seats, actually this one only has one. So the conversion here is not feasable. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4597 Registered: 12-2000 |
very common question, not much time now, but simple answer Ross is... If you're Like James G. and want a race car for the street, then that's an option. I think that's cool as you can always get more miles and use from the car if you can drive it on the street. Also easier to get around to car shows. However, the flip side is what do you really want the car for without compromises. I have a 328 that's a great reliable street car with A/C and won't cause any unwanted attention. I also have a challenge car that has no compromises for the race track. A pure street car and pure race car, that's what I like at this time. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1115 Registered: 3-2002 |
it may be easier to bring in as a race car, but aren't these cars road legal in europe, and therefore should be possible to be road legal in the states. i would think that would make the value potentially higher. so wouldn't you want to do whatever mods needed to make it both a race and road car? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4446 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks Noel, David Castelhano is also a US Converter and can help here as well. Sicne the car will come to Miami I would prefer to deal with him, besides I know him personally and have the highest regard for his work. Race Cars should not have any conversion done. Ther eis a process to do it and I need to get the phone number so I can talk to them for that process. Will call my shipper as well. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4593 Registered: 12-2000 |
race car shouldn't have to have anything done. | ||
| noel smith (Noel)
Junior Member Username: Noel Post Number: 220 Registered: 2-2003 |
Martin, call JK technologies in baltimore, they are euro coversion people(they did my car), they are the people that know the people at the DOT and EPA, and they'll know what needs to be done if anything. Lois is the only woman there and she is very nice. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4445 Registered: 5-2001 |
David, good to see you here. Welcome! I wanted to call you as well. Surely is a race car, nothing but! Can you provide me with a phone number for them in Florida? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4583 Registered: 12-2000 |
Do they still have the coke can rule? ...if it's really a race car then it should be low enough for a coke can not to roll under it. That's our highly skilled and scientific gov at work. | ||
| David M. Castelhano (Servizioman)
New member Username: Servizioman Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin, You must contact both DOT & EPA and get permission to bring the car in with a race car exemption. Both agencies will require a complete set of photos establishing that the car is a racing car. The lady at EPA is the toughest one, she works 3 or 4 days a week. A good Customs Broker should know the rules or I can walk you through it. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4444 Registered: 5-2001 |
The car has ran the Euro Challenge Series in 1997 and 1998 and was converted for the 24h Nuerburg Ring Race in 2000. It ran the 2000 race and finished, also ran another 2 more 3h races. I need some advise on importing this race car to the US. Who has imported race cars before? What to look for? It will be for sale for about $75K when here. Options: - large fuel cell - hydraulic jacks   |