| Author | Message | ||
| Trevor Ely (Bmwm3n528)
New member Username: Bmwm3n528 Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2003 |
well, in response to your first question at the beginning of the thread, i would go for the 355 no doubt. Keep in mind though these cars are 3 entirely different beasts. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
New member Username: Mattg Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2003 |
what if you lease to have a lower burn rate but with a low balloon that you plan on paying down to keep car at lease end??? isnt this the same as financing but with a lower monthly burn?? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 276 Registered: 11-2002 |
Adrian, whatever you do, DO NOT lease it. Leasing a used vehicle is disaster. The banks make fun of it, it's so bad. You are getting ripped off if you lease any of the cars you are considering. Finance your purchase and your payments won't be too bad. | ||
| Craig Williams (Craigw)
Junior Member Username: Craigw Post Number: 133 Registered: 4-2002 |
Adrian, my 94 348GTS clutch was replaced 4 months ago and still bites very high up. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1132 Registered: 3-2002 |
adrian, lots of good advice, but i'll throw my 2 cts in as well and agree with martin and ken: get a 92 or younger 348 tb (no need to tempt leaks where you live), and enjoy. it will be the lowest cost and easy entry into the f world. then once you get used to peculiarities of this make, but want more power etc, move up. the advantage is that with the 348 you will take less of a hit on re-sale than with the others, and you will find a wider buying audience. the black version in a 348 is also advantageous because the lower spoilers will blend into the body without having to paint them - which is a pain. | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 402 Registered: 1-2002 |
If you are asking me I will let you know when it comes. Right now, I am still in love with my 89 328. Expect the 348 to arrive in the next two weeks or so. | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2003 |
How do you like your car, Jason? Have you come down from the high yet, or do you still get a thrill everytime you drive it? Any regrets, any advice? Congratulations, btw. | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 398 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art: Yes. belts are already scheduled for July. Until they are done, the car will get minimal use. I still have the 328. I spoke with the Denver dealer who has serviced the car and it checked out pretty well. In addition, I spoke with the prior owner who traded for a TR. He said that he had no problems with the car but only drove it about 600-700 miles a year over the last four years. We shall see, nothing money can't fix if necessary. Hope I didn't make a foolish mistake. If so, too bad its not tax deductible! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1449 Registered: 6-2001 |
JScott: Aren't the belts due now? 30k or 8 years? If one of those breaks, its a 15k fix, or more. Art | ||
| Ken Lee (Kenster888)
New member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2003 |
jscott, I think pricewise you did allright (below low retail according to nadaguides.com), but I probably would have gotten a PPI especially for purchasing a car sight unseen. And how to remove that awful thing in the center console. Don't forget to show us pictures. | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Junior Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 160 Registered: 4-2003 |
I should add mine is a 94. DrS | ||
| Greg V. (512tr17teeth)
Junior Member Username: 512tr17teeth Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2003 |
IMO, I think the TR's are worth the money. After all, they do have that famed 12 cylinder sound!! | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 397 Registered: 1-2002 |
Paid 50K last week for a 92 348ts with 20250 miles. I will do the belts when it arrives. Think the deal was fair but not outstanding. Anyone think I did better than I think? | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Junior Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2003 |
I got my 348 spider for $70,000 US on Friday. it had 19500 and a new top and the 30000mile service. DrS | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Junior Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 115 Registered: 5-2002 |
That has got to be nice, just to be able to get a ferrari in a few weeks notice... haha I want to be old and have a high-paying job... Make sure to get a PPI, though. | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well, I went to see a red 348TS today. It is beautiful and the engine seems in beautiful condition. Only question is the clutch, whcih I will have a mechanic look at if I make an offer. Red on black. The Testarossa sold this morning right after I called. Ah well, I am in many ways happier as I don't think I am ready for it, and it looks too new to drive regularly as I plan to. Also saw a beautiful Dino 246. Came with a complete analysis of all the potential things wrong/needed to make it a concours car. Same price as the 348. To my eyes, perhaps the most beautiful shape I have ever seen on a car. Would love to do it except I am concerned about constant maintenance if I were to drive it. I will probably get a car this week, so will keep you informed. Thanks again to all your input. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2194 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have had a 328GTS, 400GT, TR, 330GTC, 348 Spider and now a BB512i. If I had it to do over I would have bought the TR first as it gives you the real taste of a Ferrari. At todays prices the TR is a bargain with good ones being sold in the low $50k range. | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin, what would a 348 be worth with that mileage? TS version, 1992. Thanks | ||
| Lawrence Yee (Ferrariguy)
Junior Member Username: Ferrariguy Post Number: 125 Registered: 8-2002 |
Martin, I think 60k is in Canadian dollars which would be low-mid 40s in USD but I agree, 60k USD is way too much for a 348tb IMO. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
New member Username: Milo Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2003 |
I don't know that a $60K asking price is "WAY TOO MUCH" or even "insane" for a TB. The TB seems relatively rare in number and there are not a lot of them for sale (that I can find anyway). 20K miles is a nice round number too, not too high, not too low. Perhaps others could offer more proof to TBs going at a lower rate. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4476 Registered: 5-2001 |
Adrian, don't know how your prices are up in CND but $60K for a TB is WAY TOO MUCH down here. Especially with 20K Miles. That is lower end Spider prices already! Keep looking around. Don't fall for the "I must have now"-trap! The right car will come along. $60K for a 20K miles TB is insane! | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2003 |
I am going to drive a black on black 348tb today. It is at the Ferrari dealership. Was dirty when I saw it but could not tell the condition. Asking $60k US about 20k miles. Will come with a FNA 1 year limited powertrain warranty. Will let you guys know. I really liked the Testarossa simply because of the condition. It is ABSOLUTELY MINT!!! However, I think that the advice to start with the 348 is the right one. BTW Martin, we did speak on the pone a few days ago. Thanks for your help and honest opinion. If only it were easier to import, I'd get my cars from you. Class act!!! Goes for all of you who contribute to this forum. Such willingness to share opinions and experiences is indeed wonderful. Hope to be able to do the same in the future. If anyone needs help with audio/video/home theater, please do not hesitate to email me or ask. That's my specialty. Thanks again! Adrian | ||
| Brian Jackett (Brian_jackett)
Junior Member Username: Brian_jackett Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2002 |
We have no issues with 355's 94 + in the UK. Asking around here at dealers not one has ever had that problem. Also the pre admission control means a faster 355, I beleive. | ||
| Glen C Winters (Wildwarrior)
New member Username: Wildwarrior Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2003 |
Personally, I would drive each car if possible then you will know how you fit in her,ride,power band ect.They are all sweet cars in their own right.It is like comparing my M5 BMW to my friends 3 series. Both are fun to drive however they have different dynamics. I find my 512 Tr to be driver friendly any where in traffic to the open free way.She is still not quick enough for my power hungry soul, but I don't believe when I get used to a car that they ever are, if that is your thing.Over all I love my 512Tr she is truly an awsome car and a blast to drive. | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 276 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have had my 348 Spyder for 2 years now and never let me down in any way. The car has covered close to 30,000 miles and still on its original clutch. The car will have a major service in the Jan 2004. The car is excellent............. I do change oil, plugs,clean filter every 3,000 miles though. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2003 |
Adrian, My clutch performs very well and grabs smoothly but with authority. I still have the dual plate dry clutch, it has about 4k on this one. I just had it out to replace a seal at the back of the clutch housing and it still looks new with a lot of meat on it. My 348 was a daily driver before I bought it. And it rund tremendous, smooth startup, idles no problem, and strong engine. The suspension is in great shape and it handles, well I just couldn't believe the handling the first time I drove one. I realy think these cars need to be driven, so that they get their bugs worked out. Shop around, inspect, and don't be afraid of mileage. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
New member Username: Milo Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2003 |
I can agree with a 348 as a great starter being that it is what I just bought four weeks ago for my first. The TR's are too big for my tastes and the 355 is more than I wanted to pay out of the blocks. The 308 and 328 were a little underpowered for what I wanted. My 348 has been trouble free for over 700 miles. I know that is not much but some of my fears are slowly fading about all the 348 troubles. It is a December 1990 model with just over 9100 miles and climbing. And those side strakes! A pain to clean but I believe they are really what grabs peoples attention. I was told Sunday that the looks are very fresh despite being 13 years old. | ||
| Ken Lee (Kenster888)
New member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2003 |
Craig, the MSRP for your car is well over $100k. So you are driving a $100k+ car, you just didn't pay for it  Good looking car BTW. Arian, which Ferrari you get is mainly personal preference and the size of your bank account. Once settled on a model, find the latest and the best example you can afford. Leasing is not a good option, and probably will have milage restrictions. If you equally like the 348 and the TR, personally I would take a 89-91 TR over a 89-91 348 (assuming same condition, milage etc). But definitely would take a 92+ 348 ('most' of the bugs were fixed) over the TR. I had the same dilemma between the 348 and the TR, but I decided on getting the 348 because it was the best and the latest example I can find (mine is a 94 factory challenge, only 13 were produced in ts form). I am so happy with my 348 and I never regretted not getting the TR. Just my personal opinion. I just hope that whatever model you end up with you will be happy with it. I guess that's the bottom line. | ||
| Craig (Beachbum)
Junior Member Username: Beachbum Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2002 |
for the money i dont think you can do better than a 348ts, being able to take the hard top off is just to cool, i just got back from a chocolate eclair run and a couple commented on what a great looking $100K car it was, take your time, do your home work, find the right car and youll love it i must admit id love a 355gts but for almost double the cost, for me its not worth it, maybe when they come down to 75Kish ill start looking the only problem is all my friends kids want me to pick them up from school | ||
| Jens Haller (Jh280774)
Member Username: Jh280774 Post Number: 526 Registered: 9-2001 |
Adrian, Martin is right! At the moment the 348 is by far the best value for money starter you can buy. Prices have really bottomed out with it while the 355 continues to depreciate and will do this even more in the following years. The TR is a great car off course if you accept the heavy 80ies look. Again the maintenance is much higher with any 12cylinder model than with the 8cylinder. Certaintly I am a bit biased since I took a 348 as starter Ferrari as well but I never really looked back since the two years I have bought it. It gets big attention everywhere and is definitely reliable if maintained by the book. Don�t use it as a daily driver though but guess it can be done without a problem (except high maintenance costs due to shorter service intervalls!) Off course it�s all a matter of personal taste but the 348 is in all cases the "cheapest" choice and not that much slower than a 355. Note that the 348 did better lap times at Fiorano test track than the normal TR due to better handling Con saluti cordialissimi, Jens Haller | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 236 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hi Martin  Send me a PM when you get a minute... | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4462 Registered: 5-2001 |
Adrian, I think we talked a few days ago. Of the 3 choices I would start with a 348. They are inexpensive and very reliable. The TR is a great overall car but can be a mouth full to maintain. The 355 although refined is more a modern car. You will pay for that though with $30K in added price. As a starter Ferrari I think you are best off buying the 348, get a 1991 or younger and see how much fun they are, then you upgrade to either a TR or a 355. The TR is in my opinion not that good of a daily work day driver. Has a restricted sight from the cockpit, but then the power is awesome. As for the clutch that may be just an adjustment problem. I know everytime I did something on the clutch the clutch felt different. Takes driving it in to adjust to your needs and wants. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 235 Registered: 11-2002 |
Adrian - Got a 355 and love it...go out and test drive one. As mentioned, 355 has power steering...348 does not. BTW the power steering is variable, full power at dead stop and the faster you go the less power assist... I try to stay away from first year production anything, the 95 355 did have valve guide issues, however if replaced then you should be OK. 95 also has OBD I computer, 96 and up have OBD II. Some say 95 has a little more power. If budget permits, I would say 96 or newer 355. Re: Shifting...348/355 will shift hard from cold start until gears warm up..this is normal. Takes about 5-10 minutes of driving to warm up. Many here by pass 2nd gear until car warms up. Not an expert but drove 348 with a "high" clutch and was told sign of replacement due... I drive my 355 at least every other day if not daily. High performace car that is civilized for daily traffic use..ie good a/c, does not overheat,etc etc. Last thing, if you go with either 348/355 make sure car has full 30K timing belt service done. Regardless of miles the 5 year "clock" has expired and should have been replaced. Let us know how your search turns out. FL | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vincent, What's the clutch on your 348 like? Does it grab at the top of the travel? How long have you had it? Any issues with it? Would you do it all over again with hindsight? Finally, I noted on another thread that a 348 had stress paint cracks between the bottom of the C pillar and the body. The dealer says most of the 348/355 he has seen has the same, once the engine has been taken out. According to him, while the chassis is on the lift, the sides bow down and this leads to the cracks. Do any of you have this problem? Thanks SO MUCH for all the replies. I will be driving the 91 tr this week. I don't anticipate tracking the car, primarily using it 2-3 times a week to work on the highway during the season. I am a little concerned that the tr may be too much for me to handle. Ah well, the problems we have! | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2003 |
Adrian,  Handles like a dream! I'm a little biased. But 12's are awesome. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 706 Registered: 12-2001 |
Vincent, yes that's right. I didn't catch that he was looking at a regular TR. In that case I would have to say 348. Great driving cars, not at all deserving of the bad rap they somehow have aquired. Plus, you still get the cheese graters. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 119 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hey, Adrian is looking at a 91' tr the 512 didn't come out till summer of 92. Is that right? | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 705 Registered: 12-2001 |
512TR. The most beautiful modern Ferrari made in the last couple decades, IMO. | ||
| Peter (Bubba)
Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 298 Registered: 5-2002 |
I say go with the 512TR if you find a decent one at a reasonable price. It's real blast to drive in the streets. I live in Hong Kong, which is about the most crowded city in the world, and the 512TR still rocks! It's also hard to beat in the looks department. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2002 |
Ernie, Beg to differ with you on the power train warranty and Ferrari's lack of support. I Bought my '97 355 from Ron Tonkin in Portland last July and had them add the Ferrari "Powertrain Plus" warranty. This was an additional $2200 at the time. I live in Atlanta and last month had FOA do a tech inspection for a track day I was going to attend. They found a leaky power steering rack. Cost of the rack they said was around $3k plus ten hours labor @ $100 hr, plus misc. parts. This looked to be an over $4000 job on a car I only had 5 months. I inquired with FOA and looked at the Powertrain Plus booklet on the systems covered.... My steering rack was covered. FOA had no problems with FNA on this (as it was an FNA authorized program). FOA made this a pleasure! (Thanks Chris!). Dodged the $$$ bullet. The cost of the warranty paid for itself twice over it's cost (and I originally before this was thinking for the small ammount of yearly mileage - less than 5000 - I'd never use it ) Glad I spent the bucks now! I heard that FNA will soon be offering bumper to bumper on authorized previosly owned Ferraris sold through it's dealers....can't tell you time or details. All in all, I had a great experience with the warranty, speed in which the repairs were carried out, and the service from Ferrari of Atlanta! Jeff Davison | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2003 |
Adrian, have you driven all three? It sounds like you are capable of owning either the the TR, 355, or 348. Given that I'd say get the one you think will be the most fun for you, it sounds like you acttually want to drive your future f-car. I have a 348, partly because I like the model and the design changes that came with this new 8cy design and partly because I could afford mine. 355's are more powerful but the handling and feel you get from the unassisted steering in a 348 is so much fun, and mine shifts really cleanly especially once you've warmed it up for a few miles. i have much more fun on twisty back roads than trying to get the car to 160 or peeling out from stoplights. But that's me. Drive them all and pick the one you'll enjoy the most. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4642 Registered: 12-2000 |
I still have the shakes a month later after driving a Ferrari 12 for the first time, that low end power is just awesome. I drove this Testarossa in a very very urban area and it wasn't that much harder to get around than the 328, besides the power, that's was impressed me the most. Now maybe if it was out on the track the light weight 328 would shine through more. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 981 Registered: 12-2001 |
Big difference between the 8's and the 12's, not just a question of a little more power. The 8's run on revs, not much torque; the 12's are all about torque, muscle car kind of launch you and throw you back in your seat torque. Before you get too carried away (why would anybody want anything less than warp speed at all times), the 8's are smaller, more tossable (but as you may have seen, they got bigger, from the 328-348-355). The mid engine 12's are also a separate species of 12, uncanny sense of balance, wide, crazy view out the front, but it will not forget, as you might, that all the weight is in the back, and the center of gravity really isn't as low as it tricks you into believing. Willi is an expert driver, so he can get the most out of the car; my bet, you'll have your hands full with a mid-12, trying to keep the speed down while you revel in the apparent balance the car has, given its size. Hard to say which approach is more appealing; my boxer, which was more primitive than the TR, was extremely involving to drive. Is a 91 a 512 TR or just a TR (spelled out?). Price seems high if its not the later model... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2421 Registered: 2-2001 |
I would suggest a 512TR or a 355. %12TR has A LOT of power, so you might want the 355 to work up to it | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ernie, Have you had any issues with your 348? How does your clutch engage, up near the beginning of travel? Also, does your 348 have stress cracks at the back where the C pillar meets with the body? What other things do you like/dislike about your car? Finally, what do you think of the potential value of the car in 2-3 years? How long have you had it, and how has the resale value been? Thanks | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 638 Registered: 11-2001 |
Adrian I have a 348, but If I had the funds I would get a 355. Like Art said, make sure it is a '96 or later. As far as the powertrain waranty. Don't fall for that trap, it is nothing but a big lie. If you ever have any waranty issues, they will do everything that they can not to own up to their end of the deal. Then if they do fiiiiiinally own up to it, it will take forever to get the car fixxed. Oh and the don't think that they won't try to find some other stuff wrong with the car that isn't covered by the warranty. Plain and simple don't get the warranty. Also don't lease. You said it your self, it is just a two year rental. The TR's are nice cars, but they are about as much to maintain as the 348's. How ever they are monsters on the topend. So again I say buy a 355. If you look hard enough you can find a nice 355 in the high $80's, but it will have some miles on it. If it does have mile on it it is actually better, cause the cars get better the more they are driven. How ever make sure that you have all the documents for engine service. Also make sure you get a PPI, before you get the car. Good luck. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 819 Registered: 8-2001 |
355 Buyers guide from Forza Magazine is posted on my site: http://www.exoticcarforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3172 (If you register you will see the pictures, no need to post if you don't want to- we just set it up that way so people can't link to the pictures and use our bandwith.) | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1431 Registered: 6-2001 |
I'd stay away from the 95 355. Those cars had isssues, and unless the valve guides, cylinders, suspension, etc. have all been corrected, you could be in for an expensive lesson. Forza has buyer's guides. They did both the 348 and the 355. I don't recall the issues, but I'd give them a call, get those issues, and go through them, so that you understand the problems with each of the models. Both cars are great, but each have their own set of issues, and before you put out your money, make sure that you know what you are getting into. Art | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2003 |
Went shopping again today. This is starting to consume me! I am new to Ferrari ownership and I am trying to do the right thing. I hope you can help. I like the relative smaller size of the 348 vs the TR, and the lower price is very attractive. I have driven only 1 348 and I am not sure if it is indicative of others. For example the clutch engages very high and the shifter is notchy. Love the sound though. So far I have seen 3 348s, 2 at independants and 1 at the Ferrari dealer. While at the dealer, I saw an ABSOLUTELY MINT 91 TR. It was AMAZING! Price is about $80k US, about 10k miles. Here's my dilemma. I was planning to buy the car outright, thinking that if I owned it, I would somehow enjoy it better. Leasing seems to somehow diminish that feeling as I am just renting. Having spoken to a few friends and dealers, they are all recommending leasing as I can keep my cash and also pay the taxes only on the monthly payments. That being the case, I can consider a more expensive car. Thus the 355. Average price of a '95 12-15k miles is about $90k US. Hope to drive one this week. The Ccar I eventually decide on will be driven, Our Summer is not that long, and so I want to take advantage of the weather. I expect to put between 3-5k miles per season. I don't expect to track, though I may take the car to driving school. Which car would lose the least in depreciation, allow me to have the most fun, and be the most reliable? To make things a little more complicated, the 348 at the Ferrari dealership would have a 1 yr warranty on limited powertrain. It is about $3,500 US more than the others, but is in black. The TR is also from the dealership but does not have a warranty. What would you do? |