| Author | Message | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2002 |
the 308 look great but only 1k per year was put on it..which means it did a lot of sitting..i bet that 15k service was done aboiut 4 years ago..if the seats have no wear, does that mean they were sat in a lot?  | ||
| Howie F. (Brokerofexotics)
Junior Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2001 |
Here's an '81 308 GTBi on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1820744800 | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dave, Thanks for the input! I have pretty much narrowed the choice to a '76 or '77 GTB or a QV GTB if one can be found. I figure I would have to pay high 20's for the early car and mid to high 30's for the QV. I guess a QV would be my choice but given how rare they are its doubtful I would find one to my liking. I really dont want a perfect car. Its been my experience with othe cars that often the ultra low mileage cosmetically perfect ones are mechanical dogs. I want a car that is in excellent mechanical shape and very good cosmetics but if the carpets are worn or there are some paint chips its no big deal. Some Patina adds to the character! Terry | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2002 |
Terry, I have had a 77 GTB, a 84 GTS and currently a 85 GTB. Here's a few thoughts. The carb cars are the coolest for sure and great for tinkering. But you said you wanted to drive 10K+ miles a year and a QV makes more sense for that. The QV's are less tempermental, easier to drive and a little quicker though not enough that it should change your mind. Also, as Magoo said, most carb cars need a valve job somewhere between 60-80K. The QV motors will go way past 100K with no internal work mainly because of improved materials. If you do get a carb car, I would recommend a 76-77 since they have no cats. A QV GTB is a rare animal in the US. Everyone wanted to be Magnum P.I. I can tell you from experience that the GTB's drive way better than the GTS's, even in everyday driving. If you have relatively long legs you should fit fine. My son is 6'1" with long legs and fits easily. However a 5'11" friend of mine has short legs, long body and he does not fit so well. I have driven about 10 308's and each one is a little different. I would try to drive as many as you can so you can judge when you have found a good one. I think upper 20's should get you a solid, fully serviced carb car with 30K miles or so. It wouldn't be perfect for that money unless you got lucky. Make sure you do a compression/leak down test before you plunk down the cash no matter how nice it looks or drives. A comparable QV should be 5 to 10K more depending on condition and servicing. Dave | ||
| Steven Pham (Stevendp)
New member Username: Stevendp Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2001 |
Thanks for the info! It is Advertise as a 308GTBi. Maybe its an aftermarket add on? I'll call on it today to get the specifics. Thanks again! | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 347 Registered: 9-2001 |
Year 1982 Model 208 GTB Turbo Turbocharged V8 Valvetrain DOHC 2 Valves / Cyl Displacement 1990 cc / 121.4 cu in Power 164.1 kw / 220.1 bhp @ 7000 rpm | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 345 Registered: 9-2001 |
The 208 Turbo you can very easily find in Europe at a reasonable price. From what I have heard, they are a little more problematic than the 308. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 344 Registered: 9-2001 |
I do not think there is a 308 turbo. Is it the 208 turbo you are talking about? | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 344 Registered: 1-2001 |
Steven, From what I remember, the turbos were 208's to meet the 2L european laws. It made the car less expensive to register- insurance too... At one time I thought we had a person from the UK here with one. | ||
| Bill Stevens (Pig4bill)
New member Username: Pig4bill Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2002 |
Headroom must be a YMMV type of thing. I remember Magnum's head stuck up over the top of the windshield. I sat in a fixed-roof 348 and it was very tight. A 360 just barely cleared my noggin and it's supposed to be roomier than most Ferrari's. I tried on a TR once, no chance I'd fit unless I cut a hole in the roof. | ||
| Steven Pham (Stevendp)
New member Username: Stevendp Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2001 |
Does anyone have information on the 308 turbo. The reason I ask is because there is an '80 308 GTB turbo for sale in the local paper. If I recalled correctly the turbo model model was made only for the European market. Are parts hard to find for this particular model? | ||
| Vince Canipelli (F308vc)
New member Username: F308vc Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2002 |
I love my 80 308gtbi....I drove Pcars for 26 yrs, all the time knowing that I dreamed of a FERRARI. The 308 was my dream and the GTB was the only way. I think it is the winner in looks over the GTS, plus th roof will NEVER LEAK !!!! Also in '80 only 24 were born !!!! I LOVE MY 308 GTBi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2361 Registered: 2-2001 |
Terry some of the guys have pulled the engine and have done the complete top end removing the heads doing a valve job and replacing the guides and seals. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2002 |
Magoo, thanks for the input! In Georgia pre- 1978 cars do not have to pass any emissions testing. This coincides nicely with the '77 models having more power anyhow... so I will probably look for a '76 or '77 GTB. The fact that these cars seem to be cheaper is just a bonus. One of the most important things I want in the car is SOUND! Its gotta sound right and have plenty of volume! Having to replace valve guides and seals would appear to be not a huge deal? Can the heads be removed without pulling the engine? Would it just be easier to go ahead and pull the engine? Do people pull heads and do a top end rebuild or do most people just go ahead and rebuild the entire engine? Its an old racing trick to redo the heads but leave a solid and smooth bottom end as is... What should an excellent condition '77 GTB bring? Is rust a big issue on that vintage car? I will be more concerned with mechanical condition than cosmetic though I want an excellent car in both regards. A few scratchs in the paint or scuffs in the interior are easy to live with then than an engine that blows blue smoke! Thanks, Terry | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2357 Registered: 2-2001 |
Terry, In my opinion I like all the carbed 308s. I have a 79 308 GTS. My car is a low mileage car and I haven't had any leaks when washing the car or getting caught in the rain. If one does you can replace the seals. No problem. The A/C. My car runs 58 degrees at the center vents. With all the glass exposure it is a little difficult here in Florida for the A/C to cool down the cockpit as a modern day car. But to me it is still comfortable. Since the temp is 58* at the vent I think a higher blower speed would recirculate the air faster and cool down the cockpit sooner. I intend to modify my blower. As far as the 2valve 308s are concernd the biggest problem is their valve seals and eventually the valve guides. When high mileage,say 60 or 70,ooo miles you can look for seal and guide wear. But as far as the lower end is concernd they are virtually indestructable. There will be cam seals and water pump seals and timing belts to change but all in all they are great cars. As has been said ,"You will love the sound of those carbs," also no computers or sensors to fool with. A good ole' example of a yesteryear car and futuristic styling. I think you will be happy with a carbed 308. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
New member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2002 |
Terry, I have a stock 1976 Fiberglass GTB (USA version). I'm relatively new to the Ferrari family, but I can offer these few observations regarding the early 308 GTB. As you're mechanically-inclined, you should have little trouble doing your own servicing. There are no catalytic converters and the only emissions device is the 70s style air pump. The four double barrel carburettors, once properly adjusted and synchronized, tend to stay that way. And they make a wonderful sound under acceleration. As far as the air-conditioner goes, we had a couple of upper 60s days here in the Northeast and the air-conditioning works marginally. Perhaps the system needs some recharging and perhaps my mechanic has some freon for it. I feel, as do others, that horsepower is not a key issue in the selection of an early 308. This was one of the better performers in its era, but over a quarter of a century has passed. Its design is timeless and its performance is consistent with its attributes. I think you'll enjoy what it does and the sound it makes when it's doing it. Ferrari did make a GTB QV. See the Model List on this site (found on the top of this page) to see the production numbers. There is a fine website called "The Ferrari 308 GTB Register" which provides a lot of information on the early GTBs in the 308 series. The address is: http://www.r-design.net/308/index_e.html There is also a fine Road & Track article on the 308 series from the March, 1997 issue which can be found on the Northwest Region Chapter of the Ferrari Club of America's website at: http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/308_buy.html The owner's manual lists three different engine-start procedures: (1) Over 60 degrees, (2) Under 60 degrees, and (3) Hot engine start. Following the recommended procedures is helpful. Longevity is related to regular periodic care and maintenance. I think the engine and drivetrain are well designed and built. My car was driven and serviced regularly during its 22,600 miles and has remained problem-free. Its service history is pretty much unremarkable save a broken passenger-side vent control cable, cigarette lighter replacement and a few other minor repairs which were taken care of early in its history. It appears that my 308 GTB has been reliable for its previous owners and, hopefully with the same care it's always been given, will remain so for me. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 680 Registered: 12-2001 |
Terry, Greg is right though. When the rain gets onto the engine and you drive it afterwards the engine heat can bake it into the paint and on various other parts of the engine. It is your choice but I think it is a factor especially if you like to keep your engine very clean. Ferraris can be expensive to fix. I do all of my own work and the parts aren't to highly priced but some are. You really need to shop around. If you do your own work it should be fine. They will have little problems that aren't very hard to fix but can be time consuming. Like I said the QVs are very reliable in that case. I think the carb cars are very reliable as well but I have had quite a few electrical issues. You are discussing performance and the carb cars stock come with 14 inch wheels. The QVs came with 16in and some have 390mm metrics. The 16s are the wheels to have IMO but they are fairly expensive if you want to purchase stock Ferrari 16 in. wheels. Once you spend enough time with your Ferrari you learn its quirks and what to expect from it. It is not like any other car IMO. I am thoroughly enjoying my Ferrari experience. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks for all the info.... keep it coming. As to my preferences, I certainly dont mind a stiff clutch, no power steering, hard brake pedal and a general lack of luxury options (aka heavy crap). To give you an idea: My 911S is being built with a 2.7RS spec engine that should give about 220bhp. It has the Mag case 901 transmission, poly bushings throughout the suspension with large torsion bars and racing anti-roll bars. It also has a sport mufflers that serves as an always on stereo system. No power options of any kind. No AC. The only thing it will have is heat. The doors have a pull strap and nothing else. It weighs 1900lb..... This car will serve for autocross, track days and general terrorization of the neighborhood. In a Ferrari I want the fastest car I can get for the buck. I really like the GTB look. I dont need a radically modified car but I dont care anything about power options. If they came without power windows thats what I would want, just less stuff to break. However I do want to drive it year round and AC is a must. If need be, I will install custom hoses and larger blower/vents. If thats possible and it will help...??? It rains and the engine gets wet, so? Is that a problem? Surely simply getting wet is not detrimental to the engine??? I would probably not drive it on days when the weather was just horrible but I would no doubt drive it in the rain sometimes. I guess mechanically what I am wondering is do these cars have serious problems that result in frequently stranding their owners and costing thousands to fix? I dont mind tuning webers and changing belts but I dont want to face an engine rebuild because its worn out at 60K miles. Thanks for all the input! Right now I am leaning towards a '76 or '77 GTB. www.forza.weblobby.com has a good looking red one with 36k miles for $29k asking. I would think this was about a $25k car? What do you guys think? Terry | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 216 Registered: 3-2001 |
Hey Rich, I think you covered it all. What a guy. I agree with what everyone said. The engine compartment too is open to air and if it rains and the car is parked water can easily get on the engine. The engine compartment can get quite hot too and this could bake on to the plenum paint as well as other components. I am fit into a 308 just fine and I am 6'2-3". The top will leak in the rain though. When I would go around corners I would get a numbers of drops in my lap plus they fog up nicely in the rain. I think QVs are more useable as daily drivers. The start much quicker than a carb 308 and are less of an effort to drive. By this I mean, clutch effort, shifting, etc. It really depends on what you are looking for. Please ask as many questions as you would like before making a purchasing step. Carbs sounds great too! | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 296 Registered: 10-2001 |
Terry, I think you'll find that the majority of the members here do not drive thier cars in adverse weather...not because they don't perform well, but just because they will get dirty. The Weather Channel is the first step I take before taking the F-car out! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2264 Registered: 2-2001 |
Some Michelotto 308s can keep up with 360 challenge cars on the track. Fast. I'm 6'1" but more legs and could fit with the top up with a helmet no problem. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2001 |
Well I'll be the stick in the mud... I'm 6 foot but I just fit my 77 308GTB. I guess it really depends on whether you are evenly built, or more top, or more legs... As far as 308's power, the 75-77 had the highest HP numbers. It dropped in 78 because of emissions, and then dropped even further when they went to FI to pass emissions in late 80. The power picked back up in 83 with the 4 valve heads... If I were looking for a bitchen little ride, number 1 on my list would be a glass body Euro 76 308GTB, lighter and quicker than any of the 308 series except for the Michelotto 308 cars. Number 2 on the list is a steel body 77GTB. Sucking carbs rule... If I were looking at an injected car, I would bypass the 308qv and move right on to a 88 1/2 328GTS that has more power than the 308qv as well as the updated suspension. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 343 Registered: 1-2001 |
I'm 6'4" and fit into my 328GTS tight, but fine. I found I am able to carry the targa top behind the seat if I turn it around and slide it toward the drivers side, so the back of the drivers seat goes into the "dish" of the top. This means the passengers seat can't go all the way back but what the heck... my wife is 5'-3" anyway  | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1830 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think I read that the 240 that Ferrari claimed in the early 308s was a number that was incorrect. It was significantly less. More in the 210 range. Power is really not the issue though. I tend to stay away from the HP questions. Who really cares. A tracktor has 1000HP and you can outrun it with a goped. The GTB is a very nice car but I have to agree with Richelson, the GTS will give you much more comfort. Buy a foldable emergency top. I will get one soon for my TS. Just in case you have the top home and get into a shower. I saw one on a 308 this saturday and it looks awesome. As for daily driver, sure why not. Rain in a GTS is a big no-no. It leaks into any GTS, be that the 308, 328, 348 or 355. The seals and run-offs are crap! Proves it does not rain a lot in Italy! AC? No A/C on a Ferrari was good until 1989, with the 348. The new ones are better than most cars I believe. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 136 Registered: 12-2001 |
I like the GTB over the GTS for looks and I have no problem with head room at 6'2" - 220 lbs. The only thing I dont like about any of them is the seating position. My right leg is against the shifter all the time and I move out of the way before I can shift. Not to many easy mods for significant gains in power. Pull the engine and make internal changes for good gains. The drop in power for 78 -79 was due to camshaft changes. The euro had the best ones. The 76-77 US cams had much higher lift than the 78-79 but all else remained the same. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 510 Registered: 9-2001 |
Terry sounds like you are a perfect fit for a ferrari. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 679 Registered: 12-2001 |
Later US spec 308s 78-79 were 205hp I believe. A finely tuned carb car can perform very well. The QVs are a more refined modern 308 IMO. They accelerate quickly, much easier clutch effort, easier shifting with a much longer shifter, updated interior, 16 inch wheels, better braking IMO, etc. I figured I would add some extra info. The QVs also have a lower final drive ration of 4.06:1. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 678 Registered: 12-2001 |
Good questions Terry. I will try to answer some of them. Is the A/C good. Not really the front vents are very restrictive. If you remove them or the hose going to them it will help but it isn't the best. Yes you can get a GTB QV. I would recommend the GTS for your height. I am around the same height and the top can be removed which gives lots of room. The GTBs I thought would have more head space than a targa with the top on but I didn't think so. Every GTB I was in my head would hit the roof where as on my GTS with the top on it is fine. I usually leave my top at home unless I am staying out for quite a while. The 30K can be done by a DIY. I just finished mine with lots of help from the guys here on FC. The timing belts and tenionser bearings are the main concerns. After you complete it once it isn't as difficult as previously though. If you like to tinker get a carb car. On a Stock injected 308 the timing is set and can't be altered. There are aftermarket systems that can be installed that will give adjustable timing but it can get costly. The carb car IMO is the tinkering man's dream. The FI cars once set the Bosch Inj. is normally good to go and will not need and service. The carb car you can change the points to electronic ignition, Crane XR700, adjustable timing, changing jets, syncing carbs, etc. Now the QVs can be modded too but it is different. Most guys are porting heads, direct fire ignition, superchargers etc. Hope this helps. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2002 |
Im new to the list and have read tons of similar posts in the archives, but wanted to ask a few questions.... I am giving serious thought to buying an early 308 GTB. I am 6'2" tall so the GTS with the roof behind the seats may not leave enough legroom to be comfortable and I think the GTB looks better. Do the US spec carb cars put out 240bhp? Are the carb cars quicker than an '84 or '85 QV? Did Ferrari make a QV GTB? I am reasonably mechanically inclined and not afraid to get my hands dirty so having to work on the car myself some is not frightening. I have a good shop and full set of tools, also have rebuilt/restored E-Type Jags and 911's. I currently have a '69 911S hotrod project that is apart receiving a complete restoration including 2.7RS spec engine. Will maintaining a 308 be within the capabilities of a hobby-mechanic? Is a 30K service within the enthusiasts capabilities? If I buy a 308 my intentions will be to drive it pretty much as a daily car. I have an old Isuzu Trooper that I use as a hack, but I want a car I can really drive. Is it unrealistic to expect a 308 to be usable as a daily car (10K + per year)? I have had a bunch of different 911's including a '79 SC, '88 Carrera and a '95 993. The 911's all responded to hard and frequent driving with no complaints or maintenance issues. My '88 911 had 145,000 miles on it and the only maintenance it ever had other than normal was a new clutch. It drove as new when I sold it... I read on here guys talking like 60,000 miles is a major achievment for a 308 and it really makes me wonder if these cars are reliable or just very beautiful mechanical money pits? Is the AC on an early 308 any good? I live in Atlanta and during the summer AC is required. Will the system in a 308 keep you cool? If not are there any common modifications to make the AC more efficient? I am one of those guys who cannot resist tinkering with my car. Are there relatively easy ways to increase the power in the early 308 engines? Are suspension upgrades available? I doubt I would track the 308 as that is what the 911 is for and I am looking at getting a Club Ford to race but I do want a car that handles well and is reasonably quick. I read some magazine articles that indicate a 308 is a pretty reliable car but I was hoping to get some feedback from actual owners. Do any of you guys drive your cars daily, rain or shine? Also, how much should I pay for a good solid early GTB? I do not want an ultra low mileage car. Its been my experience with Jags that cars which spend most of their time sitting have big mechanical issues while cars that are driven are more reliable. However, I would want something under 50K miles with full service history. Is that what I should be looking for? All opinions or suggestions are welcome! Terry |