| Author | Message | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 157 Registered: 5-2001 |
Terry, Having had three TR-3A's, brought up to B-specs, and moderately massaged, I know the feeling of these nuckle draggers. However, the most exciting car to drive and throw around, at low to moderate speeds, has to be a Lotus Seven. You sit on a thin cushion on the floor where driving at sixty, feels like a hundred. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 89 Registered: 1-2002 |
Terry, You hit upon one of the reasons I don't own a newer Ferrari than my 328. I used to have a 348 Factory Challenge car that needed to be driven very hard and very fast to be satisfying. 355's and 360's are even worse! I drive the 85 QV mostly because I don't have to worry about it much and I can have a lot of fun without going to jail should I be caught. And if the traffic or other factors keep me from driving fast, it doesn't bother me so much. It is also a lot of fun on short twisty tracks where top speed might be 85-90. Ferraris go after 4 senses (sight, sound, touch and smell). They call to me and say "let's play" in a way that no other car has for me. German cars are cerebral IMO which is not bad, just not as much fun. Dave | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 105 Registered: 3-2002 |
Peter its a lot more expensive in the US hehe  | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2002 |
Excellent point Bret! I do plan on doing my own maintenance and if the car is down for several weeks while getting it done its no biggie as it wont be my only car (I'll never be without a 911). Bill, I am not argueing your point really. I do think a Pcar gives much better performance for much less maintenance costs.... but it also does not look as good, make the Ferrari sounds or just seem as "cool" overall. One of those things where the one may be a better car in every way on paper but you would choose the other to drive anyway (at least sometimes ;) Dave, I agree with your point as well. For me, its not coming down to a choice of a P-car OR a Ferrari. I already have a 911 hotrod (at least I will when I put it back together) and I want a 308 as well. I figure then I can have the best of both worlds: the 911 for raw performance to be used in autocross and on track days and the 308 specifically because it is fun to drive and makes great sounds while NOT going that fast! One of the few things I did not like about my 993 was that the car was TOO fast for a frequent street driver. By this I mean that in order to really feel like you were pushing the car and to be engaged with it you had to drive at insane speeds. Doing 120 on 2 land twisty back roads is nuts. It was a blast on the track but on the street you could never really push it at all. In a 308 I want a car that is quick but more importantly gives engaging driver feedback, fantastic sounds and tons of fun at LOW relative speeds. I dont want to go 150 on the street, I want it to feel like and sound like 150 when really only doing about 80. I think a 308 will do this nicely. My father has a fantastic 1960 Triumph TR3b that makes you feel like your cornering at warp speed in full 4 wheel drift when in reality your not doing 40. Amazing fun! Terry | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2299 Registered: 2-2001 |
A 308 is very affordable if you do all your own work and get parts from wholesalers. It still is more expensive than a new car or a normal car, but manageable. My experience is that it only becomes very expensive when you start modifying things beacuse you have some sort of derranged fascination with constantly increasing speed. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2001 |
I have made a survey on maintenance cost for 308/328, 348 and 355 here in Sweden. What will the total cost for ordinary service at recommended intervals, replacement of cambelts and one clutch change over 100,000 km (62,500 miles) be according to price list at an authorized Ferrari service? Per 1000 miles it will be (about) in $: 308/328: 290 348: 375 355: 180 I believe it�s more expensive in US though. As we all know this is not the whole story about Ferrari maintenance cost but it could give you a hint of the lowest possible cost. Ciao Peter | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 687 Registered: 12-2001 |
I am not sure why but this question seems to always come up. A Ferrari is a Ferrari. Like Magoo said enjoy the car for what it is. If you feel that you are not comfortable with Ferrari parts/service prices it is understandable but we are talking about cars that are 20 plus years old too. If you are looking for modern cheap power there are many other options. I don't feel there needs to be an excuse for a Ferrari. My 308 feels and drives much better than my friends newer Porsche IMO. Porsches may be cheaper to maintain but that wasn't what I was looking for plus I see numerous 911s everyday and they don't spark interest in me. I don't think there is a better engine sound than on a Ferrari. I think if you are unsure about the $$$ of the car it isn't the time to buy one. After reading your posts it may be best for you to wait. I do not intend for this come accross the wrong way but this is my take on the matter. | ||
| Bill Stevens (Pig4bill)
New member Username: Pig4bill Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2002 |
Terry, I said the more extreme, the higher the maintenance costs, not specific to brands or models with bigger engines. You admit the 3.0 liter Ferrari engine is the match, or better, of the the 3.2 Porsche engine. Better brakes on the Porsche has nothing to do with the major maintenance expense of the engine. When you compare a GT2 to a 360, note that the limited production GT2 has to resort to turbocharging to surpass the 360's horsepower, and the "plain" Twin Turbo has about the same horsepower as the normally aspirated 360. You reinforce my point when you bring up the NSX. Extreme performance = high mantenance costs. A redline over 8000 rpm doesn't come cheap. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 88 Registered: 1-2002 |
Terry, It should be mentioned that even 308's were very limited production cars and even at very high prices, there just aren't enough of them to spend huge piles of money on engineering without making them vastly more expensive. The old joke is GM would give a team of engineers millions of dollars and 3 years to design a water pump. Ferrari hands an engineer a piece of paper and tells hin they want a water pump design in 3 days. When you look at Ferraris in that perspective, I actually think they have done a good job. The drive lines are generally bullet proof and overall, despite fit and finsih flaws, I have found them to be solid, tight cars, even after many years and lots of miles. Unlike Honda, Ferrari does not make millions of cars and have engineering to do what Honda did with NSX. That said, I have driven NSX's and S2000's and they just don't deliver the adrenalin. Without a doubt, several car makers offer more performance bang for the buck. Hell, a mildly worked over Civic can embaress a 308. I keep trying to find cheaper, more practical alternatives myself. Last fall I got to drive my 308 and a 99 M3 back to back on the track. No comparison performance wise, but the 308 was so much more fun! Porsehes are wonderful cars and will always appeal to wider audience than Ferraris, even if prices and performance were equal. Most of the high costs on Ferraris is actually labor, not parts. Stuff like valve adjustments, belt changes, etc. are time consuming. Ferraris are not for everyone. You have to love them for what they are and forgive them for their shortcomings. Drive a few and see what you think. Dave | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1065 Registered: 2-2001 |
Actually the engineering is equal to a Fiat. I have worked on them both and was the Service Director at a Fiat Dealership and there is an amazing similarity. The Ferrari is just prettier. Most Fiats had an electrical system that was a true nightmare. They had relays that operated relays that operated relays that no one was sure exactly what they operated. When you turned the switch on on a 131 I swear that SOB would click for 5 minutes before the starter would work. No wonder they failed here. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bill, The only problem with your hypothesis about Ferrari maintenance compared to Porsche being the same as Honda maintenance compared to Porsche... is, well, 2 things. First you promote a supposition that the Ferrari is a higher performance vehicle than the Porsche and thus is expected to have higher maintenance. However, I believe if you were to take a bone stock 1985 3.2 Carrera and a bone stock '85 308QV, put them on Road Atlanta with equal talent drivers and have them race over 20 laps the 911 would win by a fairly large margin. Mostly due to brakes... I actually believe that if you compare most any Ferrari to its equal or closest rival in price from Porsche, the P-car will come up quicker in most counts. IE, a new GT2 vs a 360... Also, If you compare maintenance costs on a Porsche 993 to that on a NSX, the Porsche will come out looking like an incredible bargain. Actually, the 993 would look pretty good in maintenance costs when compared to an Accord! P-Cars are to a large degree drive and forget. Change the oil every 12,000 miles and dont worry. Im not saying a P-car is better than a Ferrari or trying to bring up any such argument, its pointless. I love them both and ultimatly want to own excellent examples of them both. However, while Ferrari IMHO takes the cake hands down in pure sex appeal and visual excitement the P-Car is equaly dominating in pure engineering excellence and off the shelf track performance. One thing for sure, any 911 driver would laugh out load if told it was expected and normal to have to spend $4000 for every 12K driven in maintenance. I didnt spend that much in 80K with my '88 911 and in pure performance numbers an equal year 328 has nothing on it. I want a 308 GTB very much because they are incredibly beautiful and make wonderful sounds but I am beginning to wonder if the actual engineering is any better than a run of the mill Fiat given the maintenance issues people apparently have all the time. Terry | ||
| Mark (Study)
Junior Member Username: Study Post Number: 221 Registered: 10-2001 |
Bill was right... until Honda brought out the NSX and showed that it is realy just a matter of smart smart engineering. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 350 Registered: 9-2001 |
Daniel, I am with you. From my experience I have learned that the Ferrari Shops are more expensive but a LOT better than all the others. I also prefer to pay more but have my car exactly as I like. | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
Junior Member Username: Dbr328gtb Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2001 |
To maintain my 328GTB to both mechanical perfection and cosmetic upkeep (to about the 95 point level) costs me about $3000/yr (@4000-4500 miles/yr). This would be alot lower if I didnt use a factory auth dealer, but their service is so good and enhances the value of the car. For me this is fine as I get to experience the joys of Ferrari. Just the price of admission to own the finest marque in the world! | ||
| Bill Stevens (Pig4bill)
New member Username: Pig4bill Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2002 |
You will see the same type of post on a Porsche site by a current Honda owner. "Yikes! I only have to change oil twice and plugs once to go 300,000 miles in my Accord". The more extreme the performance car, the more expensive the maintenance. At one extreme you've got Hondas, et al that go half a lifetime between rebuilds. At the other extreme you've got Top Fuel dragsters that go 440 yards between rebuilds. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2002 |
Yikes! $10K in maintenance for 30K in miles driven? Thats about 10 times more than on a 911 for the same miles! And thats if your 911 is an older one that needs a valve adjustment every 15K. P-car depreciation has never existed for me really. Every 911 I have ever sold brought at least what I paid for it, except my 993 which I had wrecked and had fixed. It brought about $3K less.... Buy used and smart, a P-car wont lose you any money. I will do all my own maintenace on a 308 when I buy one but I sure hope it doesnt need as much work as it seems some have to do. I reckon I better get the 911 restoration done before a purchase! Terry | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 86 Registered: 1-2002 |
Marcus, Over the course of 30K, you need a 15K service (1500-2000) a 30K service (3000-3500) and in between fluid changes and such for 1500 total. You can expect ot go through a clutch (1500 or more if you need a flywheel). If you are hard on clutches, expect more. Expect one to two water pumps (350 per rebuild) You can save labor on one if you do it when you change belts (smart). Probably need one or more sets of brake pads, but these aren't bad if you don't use Ferrari store pads. You will probably need wires and rotors once along with 2 sets of plugs. (600.) You can expect some breakage, but most things aren't too bad to repair. From my own experience, and observing others, I think 10-12K per 30K miles is a good estimate. Not cheap, but depreciation isn't as bad with these as some others, including P-cars. Dave | ||
| HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
Junior Member Username: Heath Post Number: 140 Registered: 2-2001 |
Water pump for 3 liter engin from Evans in Ohio $345.00 2 1/2 hours and one cut finger to put it on. Maint.cost for ferrari's are no more than for any other fine piece of machinery. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2001 |
Steve is right, we've proven on here a few times that Euro models follow different model year designations. Back on the topic of maintenance costs, the water pump I had replaced 8 months ago for about $1500 appears to have gone out again today. Cross your fingers for me that it's just a leaking hose. But the hoses aren't old either. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 666 Registered: 1-2001 |
Again, you guys need to realize that we live all over the world with different definitions of "year" possible (production, registration, model). In the US, 328s are classified as 1986-1989 "model years" only -- elsewhere, I think an early production 328 made in late 1985 could be considered a "1985" (I think this is also why there are 1980 carbed 308s and 1982 308QVs outside the US). I kind of like the old Ferrari system where "model" was the primary definition and "year of production" was a secondary factor. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
New member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2002 |
By the way Jim, beautiful Ferrari! | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
New member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jim, It is not that I am worried, I just like to do some research and know what I am getting to-like you said there were some surprises. There is a 1985 GTS-GTB, check it out. I appreciate everyone's help-you guys and all very nice! | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 346 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think the first 328 GTB was from 1985. Jim will you please check it? | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 343 Registered: 9-2001 |
I agree with everything that was written here specially with Anders. It is true, a 328 is the right car to be caught by the Ferrari Virus. I also feel the same as you when you say the next one will be a Testarossa. Perhaps I will go for a 512TR :-) Go ahead, buy yourself a 328 and enjoy her! They are fantastic cars. Anders, next time I need a major service in my Ferrari I have to go to Sweden. I paid for my major service (30.000 Km) +- euro 10.000,00 in Portugal. | ||
| Anders J Lamberth (Andersjl)
New member Username: Andersjl Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2001 |
Hi Marcus, To begin with, excuse my broken English. I could answer you in Swedish, but I thought this could be a bit too difficult for you guys out there :-) Before talking about maintenance costs, you have to remember that the biggest "cost" owning a car is normally the loss in value: typically 20-30% PER YEAR the first years for a standard car, and for a more exlusive one, it might be even worse. Buying a Ferrari which is about 10-15 years means that the loss in value is more or less 0. I bought my 328 GTS -87 about 2 years ago. It had done 26.000 Km, so I decided to take it in for a "big maintenance check": oil, filters, cam-belts, brake pads etc. It all costed about $1.500 at a Ferrari-garage here in Sweden. I have not had any problems with the car, and I have now added another 10.000 Km. I am very happy, not only because of the reliability, but for the joy in having a Ferrari. Just stopping to fill up gas is a pleasure when people walk up to you, asking things about the car etc. -Get one ! Now I am looking for a Testarossa too. Be aware, owning a Ferrari is like a contagious decease... Just make sure you have the blessing and understanding from the family. I have two small daughters, 5 months and one of 3 years. The oldest one is chasing me like: "Dad, can we take a ride in the Faaiijjj ?" -So I had to install a baby-seat, and it works fine. -It�s just great. Brgds Anders in Sweden | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 339 Registered: 7-2001 |
My other thought is that if you're worried about the maintenance costs, a Ferrari might not be the car for you. I've had mine since August and have put over $6k in it. I knew much of that was coming, but some of it was a surprise. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 338 Registered: 7-2001 |
The first thing you need to know is that there is no such thing as an 85 328. 1985 was the last year for the 308 QV, the 328 started in 86 and ran thru 89. If you're interested in the cars, many of us will be at Dyno Day at Norwoods on the 20th, I'd suggest you come by. It looks the 1:30-3:30 slot has the most cars at this point so that might be the best time to stop in. Should be fun! | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hi Marcus, Welcome. I am a user in Dallas also. There are quite a few users in DFW with 328s so you should have no problem getting info. I will listen in too since I am looking for a 328 GTS. Rob Lay is the mananger/creator of this site and he is also located in Dallas and owns a very nice 328. We have had a few get-togethers in the last couple months, usually around F1 race watching. Keep your eyes out on the DFW area of the site for the next event. Ken Thomas | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
New member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2001 |
I tracked all my maintainance costs for 60000 miles and got $.70 per mile. This includes 5 sets of tires, 3 belt changes, 2 clutches and everything else except gas. It is probably high to very high compared to others since I have extensively tracked the car and really overmaintain it since I see 8000plus rpm more often than average I would think. Reliability has been good. One new starter drive and water pump seal. I do not hesitate to drive 400 miles to the Glen, play for a weekend and drive home. The car is essentially bulletproof and very well developed being the last model of a long 308/328 production run. It is a great starter Ferrari. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
New member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2002 |
I am new to this site and I have been reading some threads (everyone seems very friendly-hope to meet some of you in the Dallas area sometime), I belong to NTAG (North Texas Audi Group) and wanted to know some costs for this particular model as well as reliability. I have never owned a F-car but would like to in the next year(this model). Any help would be greatly appreciated! -Marcus | ||
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