New Motor Trend test, Murci-575M-Vipe...

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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through April 30, 2003 Taek-Ho Kwon 75  1  4-30-03  3:14 pm   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco) Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:59 pm:    Greetings: Everyone should support the marque they like. None of these cars are made the way they used to be. The mechanical components of your favorite marques cars that were exclusive of other less expensive brands are for the most part over. Lamborghini will probably have some Audi parts soon; if not already. The same probably holds true with Ferrari and Maserati. You probably cannot find that pure hand made automobile anymore where the aluminum panels were beat by hand and installed slightly less than perfect. I don't even have to go into painting. Also the days are ( for the most part ) over where your car can compete succesfully on Sunday around a track with hay and drive to work on Monday. Of course try and "special order" your car with racing parts and you will not get a return call from the factory. Don't even mention the DOT and EPA. You cannot even special order GT-3 racing seats ( available on the order sheet in Europe ) in the new 04 GT-3. Like several posters here have said there are alot of (hot) cars manufactured today. Soon we are going to have hot-rod Cadillacs on the street. 200mph 500bhp Corvettes are coming to your local Chevy dealer sooner than you think. If you want a car that makes you feel that you have a race car ~ thats great. Of course you can track it and drive it. But it (ain't) like the 60's when the track cars were also in some catagories street cars. again you cannot order that car with a large gas tank, off road exhaust etc.... Lambos are not race cars. But current regular production Ferraris are not either. And you have to compare stock to stock when comparing models. Ralph TomD (Tifosi) Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3464 Registered: 9-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:27 pm:    stupid question: of the marques that are rated by theses mags, which one is the only one that does not support these mags with signficant advertising - either for the specific cars or cars under the same corp umbrella Lucas Taratus (Karmavore) Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 157 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:22 pm:    "Don't give up your day job" He doesn't appear to have one. None of us do. Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:19 pm:    Is that a version of the old refridgerator joke Allan? LOL Don't give up your day job Pat Pasqualini (Enzo) Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 471 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:14 pm:    Tony- It pulls really hard in a straight line! allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 450 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:05 pm:    I dont know, hows your Fiat X/19 running? Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 9:02 pm:    Nice Lambo Pat-Does that one have a PTO? It looks like it could turn on a dime. Pat Pasqualini (Enzo) Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 470 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:53 pm:    Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:52 pm:    Allan, since your wife drives the ferrari-why don't you let her sit down a the keyboard and you go sit in the SV (like the big black letters! is it "so vain" or "so vacuous"?) and look at yourself in the vanity mirror? Pat Pasqualini (Enzo) Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 469 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:51 pm:    So are all the crops plowed now since you are back posting more Lambo propaganda? allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 449 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:43 pm:    Not one horse, several! Also you forgot about the gold rolex. Dont think we'd ever meet though, as i dont hang out much at the Barnes and Noble looking at F1 magazines, trying to convince people my roadcar was equal. Pat Pasqualini (Enzo) Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 468 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:40 pm:    Would he also have horse crossed out on his door? I think we have seen this guy haven't we? Ernesto (T88power) Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1447 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:27 pm:    I can't wait to finally meet Allan in person one of these days. He probably walks around with a t-shirt with a photo of his supposed Lambo title in the front and a photos of magazine articles in the back, with red Lambo driving gloves and a BIG Lambo keychain hanging out of his Versace jean pocket. Ernesto DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3790 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:24 pm:    Blah... i'm taking my secure self to the driving range to hit some balls... i'll leave you with this: if i was the owner of a Lamborghini, Ferrari & a Lotus (among whatever else you have), i'd be out driving one, not sitting on here, securing my image as an exotic owner... allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 446 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:23 pm:    Actually, my helicopter is better than yours! allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 445 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:21 pm:    Would you prefer we do slot cars? More your style. Funny, all sorts of excuses, magazines dont count, street encounters dont count, only F1 racing victories count. DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3789 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:20 pm:    Patrick, it's not plastic, it's polymer... Ernesto, i just see him ignoring the question or bullsh!tting about other things... Maybe he's just jealous 'cause he doesn't own a helicopter... Ernesto (T88power) Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1442 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:18 pm:    LOL... Magazine racing is fun! allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 444 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:17 pm:    Des, Im not the only one who doubts Ernestos ownership. Its one thing to be outspoken and speak from experience, another to speak from model making. Heres another good article! Make note of the comment in the left corner! Ernesto (T88power) Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1441 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:16 pm:    DES, Allan is that type of person who when he was kid he had to have the best toy. And not only that, all the other kids had to like his toys or he would put them down and break their toys. I would love it for him to prove that I dont have a 360. Let's see what the fool comes up with. Ernesto Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy) New member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:16 pm:    I don't think he ernesto owns a saturn either...who would want a plastic car? DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3788 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:15 pm:    Mr. G. - any chance we could get you to start an off topic thread on what it's like to drive an Enzo or a Zonda...? (The Enzo portion would certainly be appropriate for General Discussion, though...) i can't imagine that you just took the Enzo "around the block", the Zonda, either... i've heard some really intense thing about the Zonda... DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3785 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:08 pm:    Allan... Any reason why you went through all of that trouble to post a picture of your title to prove that you own a Lamborghini, but won't cough up why you think Ernesto doesn't own a Ferrari...? The only thing i'm positive that Ernesto doesn't own (unless he stole mine and someone else's idea), is an ice cream parlor called 'Scoops & Spoilers' (which would be theoretically located next to 'The Challenge Grill & Bar' - or whatever it was called)... Can you finally unveil your reason for attempting to discredit this member's ownership...? allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 442 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:05 pm:    Oh Ernesto, time to lay off the crack pipe. Go polish your models. Ernesto (T88power) Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1440 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:54 pm:    Allan, you are sorrier and more pathetic that I thought! You actually posted your title to prove that you have a Lambo!! LOL!!! My oh my, you certainly have an inferiority complex. And I'm sure you've had that ready for months until the perfect opportunity came by for you to post it. I can't think of anyone else who would post something like that, just to prove to someone else that you own something. BTW, how do we know that your father doesn't have the same name as you and that you are posting your daddy's title? You can scan all the titles and magazines in the world, you are still a idiot. We understand that. Ernesto Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:45 pm:    Porsche made tractors too, but they've actually won races with their cars. Its OK to love a Lambo. I'm fond of my Massey Fergusson. Thanks for the scan of the title (I believed you owned one just by your attitude). Why no Mossler fans? That sounds like the one to have. DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3779 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:31 pm:    Mr G. - i'm LMAO over here...! Every once in a while, you say something that's just beyond the level of humor that i've allowed myself to expect from you; i'm on the floor over here, you have no idea... Erik, i can respect and understand what you're saying (and it's nice to know that you're not just jumping on the bandwagon; that you're your own, mature individual - i respect that), but like Rob said, this is the last of a gross of straws from Allan... There's another "lambo" thread that is the infamous Lamborghini/Ferrari thread, here - it will be a long time before it's forgotten; search for it and see if you can stomach the whole thing... It was ridiculous... Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy) New member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:26 pm:    Gee that mag looks Familiar...it even has my name on it! I like the shape of the 575M more,but I would prefer owning the Murcielago. It's faster,sounds better,and will probably be more enjoyable overall. allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 441 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:25 pm:    Des, please dont get all excited as i didnt intend to really prove anything to you, more of a call out to our buddy Ernesto. I did find a roadtest where a Ferrari won, it was against a Fiat, but they did find they shared alot of parts. Found another where a Ferrari lost a Toyota Mr2, and a Syclone. HMMMMMMM nothing but negativity. Erik (Teenferrarifan) New member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:23 pm:    This thread is making everyone turn against each other just for what they are saying. I love a good argument, but we aren't arguing about anything here just stating things about each other back and forth. It is one thing to criticize cars, but to attack people when you don't even know them just from what they post. I am not taking anyone's side I would just like to see facts exchanged about these three cars, and I really don't car what type of car you own as much as what your opinion is about the car. I sure don't own a 550, but I think it is one amazing car. I come here to learn about f-cars and what people think about them. I am in high school I hear insults(and give some) all day long. Lets not make this Jerry Springer Online. Erik James Glickenhaus (Napolis) Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1153 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:22 pm:    Des I feel like the time I got a Sat. email from my son from Everest Base camp. You're going to make it, you really are. Best Jim allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 440 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:18 pm:    Heres the Numbers: Hey why no Ferrari on the cover? James Adams (Madmaxx) Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:14 pm:    How that lotus allan? I'm just too friggin big for one! GT3 seats would help, but still felt like a sardine! Don't try to stir up too much here man, all cars are good. James DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3777 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:13 pm:    ROTMFFLMMFFFARTFO...! Allan, i figured once you read my post, you'd quote your serial number or something - little did i know that you'd go through all that trouble to prove to me that you have a Lamborghini...! Who am i...? LOL... Why do you feel the need to prove yourself to me...? How insecure do you feel that you need to do something like that...? ...you know, now that i think about it, maybe you ARE insecure, and that's really why you did that... Now i feel bad... i shouldn't be sitting here, ragging on you... All the material possessions in the world won't make someone feel secure on the inside, just on the outside, where other people can see you in your cars... i'm just a lowly fella from the other side of the country, why would you feel the need to do that, to prove yourself like that...? Dude, i'm sorry... If you ever wanna talk, if something's ever bothering you, just email me, [email protected]... There's no reason to feel insecure, but it explains why you come here, dumping frivolous statistics about straight line races between different exotics... Most of us aren't into that and that's not what Ferraris are about... We like Lamborghinis, too, and you have a nice one; but even with that, you shouldn't feel the need to judge yourself or others by how long it takes them to get to 60 mph from a standing start... Allan, i'm sure you're a good person, inside and you just need some direction, some boost that you ARE an okay person... It's alright, dude, really... We're here for you... If you ever wanna talk or you're ever having a problem and not sure who to turn to, just let us know, ok buddy...? Rob Lay (Rob328gts) Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4694 Registered: 12-2000 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:13 pm:    LOL Allan, I set myself up for that one. allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 439 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:01 pm:    Oh, boy this is getting GOOD! Everyones got their panties in a bunch! Well i guess id be mad too IF MY ULTRA EXOTIC F1 SPIRITED RACE CAR GOT BLOWN AWAY BY A TRACTOR! Hey Des, is this enough proof for you? "The Don" (Mlemus) Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4313 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 6:23 pm:    Will someone wip out a ruler already. We have this same discussion EVERY two months. All cars have good and bad points. Hell, There are ricers that think they are the bomb as well so leave it alone already. That goes for you to Allan Matt Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 318 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:58 pm:    Thanks for the kind word Dom! Great to see you active in the chat. Cheers Dom Vitarella (Dom) Junior Member Username: Dom Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:43 pm:    I respect all cars. I love most ferrari's, lambo's, and even the viper. There are certain models I would prefer over others, but each car has its good and bad points. This is my opinion. I'm not the biggest fan of the countach, for example, but I would love a Miura. Re: Viper- I was at a track event at buttonwillow, and met a nice guy with a viper. Really knew his ••••, and was a great driver. Managed to get 2nd fastest time of the day, behind a very suped-up corvette. I got a whole lot of respect for that car after seeing it on the track. I probably wouldn't buy one, but I still respect the car for what it is. Taek- I think you've been a very helpful person on this site, and you were especially helpful to me when I was buying my GT4. Anytime you are in So Cal, look me up, and we can go for a ride. Can't we all just get along... Dom stephen r chong (Ethans_dad) Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 242 Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:40 pm:    Reminds me of the old TT Supra posts. Remember those flames? James Adams (Madmaxx) Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:36 pm:    There are some good photos of the CC on the VCA website (www.viperclub.org). Some of the members have already taken delivery of their CC's. I am NOT a fan of the SRT-10 however, but that is a different thread all together. James Matt (Matt_lamotte) Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 343 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:33 pm:    DES-The Mike Tyson of Ferrari Chat! Puts your ass in the corner and tells you how it is and how it's going to be.The man has a keyboard of steel! I'm pretty confused today with Allan myself. I've talked to him on LamboChat and he's pretty cool over there. I see no reason to start the debate back up but he's definitly fed the fire this time. Allan are you just having a bad day? Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 315 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:32 pm:    That's right James. The production C5s have the hydroformed chassis, very different from what C5Rs use. I actually wanted a Competition Coupe badly, but they were only selling to those who were going to race them and had a team standing by. Jere Dunham (Questioner) Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 519 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:27 pm:    Allan, If I may be so bold as to add something to this. If we want any more s**t out of you, we will unscrew your head and dip it out...... Thank you. I feel better now. James Adams (Madmaxx) Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:26 pm:    Yes, Oreca did a very good job! However, when chysler cut the funds and switched over to their "prototype" class (what a joke) the magic was gone. A new Comp Coupe derived car will be the next racecar from chysler to compete. One cool thing about the viper race cars is that they were built using existing car frames. The C5R on the otherhand was a completely new car from the ground up using a tube chassis and no OEM anything James Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 314 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:19 pm:    True James. Oreca made it work didn't it. Those Vipers are no joke. James Adams (Madmaxx) Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:09 pm:    1) Sounds like crap = 4litre 5cylinder on both sides. No crossover. Corsa fixes that right up 2) Cockpit gets hot = Yep Remove the cats and the heat is reduced 80%. Your not used to having a 20" long tubular cat so close to your legs 3) Res = The V10 odd-fire design creates the resonance around 3K. Corsa all but elimnates this. I run pretty much wide open pipes with a crossover in the rear. Loud as a sombitch, but works wonders. 4)Handles like crap = You have to know how to handle the car. Do not expect to go full blast into a corner. This isn't a vette.. no TC to save ya LOL. A viper's lap time actuall beat the Z06 and was only a second shy of the 911 TT car by MT. 5) White faced look like crap? Ummmm.. no offence, but F-cars have had the mega-80's red-glow gagues for quite some time. 6) If you want heal-toe, buy a lotus. Seriously, the pedels are not that bad once you get used to them. Granted they are spaced apart and far left. This is a modern muscle car. 7) See above 8) Brakes = yeah, they suck. A Lot. No question there LOL 9) Insurance is cheap. I pay ~100$ a month for full coverage w/ no deduct on mine. And I'm under 25 to boot! 10) Shifter = There is no linkage. Oh... and we've had Allan over on our side of the house too, so don't feel bad LOL I love Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, and Mopar. They are all diferent, designed to do different things. HOWEVER, stereotyping never does anyone any good. Be careful stating all vipers suck at the track, someone may take you up on that James Erik (Teenferrarifan) New member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:57 pm:    Will do it is a great way for me to get my post count up. This way I can one day catch DES.(Just kidding) Erik Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:54 pm:    Wish I knew Rob. Erik, start up a thread about the driving impressions. I'm really curious to see the differences because I have never driven the 575. It'll give us both some insight. Marq J Ruben (Qferrari) Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 335 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:54 pm:    Great post, DES. Well said; very true. J Claxton (Clax) New member Username: Clax Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:53 pm:    I just saw Fiddler's picture in the other thread, and I swear I saw him driving a Mazda Miata this past weekend. Sean F (Agracer) Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:51 pm:    "There is a limit to how quick street cars can go" oh god, lets not start the F=ma thread on torque and BHP again. I thought that would never end..!! Rob Lay (Rob328gts) Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4690 Registered: 12-2000 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:49 pm:    DES, very well said as usual. Taek, as DES says, I don't jump over every person, this was just the final straw of many with Mr. Allan. He'll be back again and again spewing the same. Why he doesn't sell his Ferrari and go elsewhere, I don't know. DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3774 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:45 pm:    LOL, Marq... Marq J Ruben (Qferrari) Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 334 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:43 pm:    DES, please tell us how you really feel... J Claxton (Clax) New member Username: Clax Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:39 pm:    I have an important question, and pardon me if it has already been asked. Why is 0-60 and 1/4 mile so important? Street cars can only generate so much traction. There is a limit to how quick street cars can go, regardless of how much horsepower you pump into them. If I really cared about 0-60 and 1/4 mile, I wouldn't buy any of these 3 cars! I would buy a Supra, and tune the hell out of it. I would tromp all over Enzo's, McLaren's, you name it. But seriously, who would rather drive a Supra than a true exotic? I like Lambo's, but does anyone really need to stand on a soapbox and proclaim Lambo victory over Ferrari? Personally, I prefer Ferrari, but different strokes for different folks. For some reason, some people just find it necessary to make an attempt to instill their preferences on other people. I'll never understand that. DES (Sickspeed) Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3773 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:36 pm:    This is such horrendous, malicious bullsh!t, i'm glad you started it, Allan; the last few days have been pretty rough and you just ended my search for someone i could cock over and squeeze a turd out on... You're right in the respect that if someone else posted these numbers, regardless of whether Ferrari was on top or bottom, you wouldn't be catching this heat... But you're catching the heat 'cause you're an instigator; you ONLY post crap like this when the article promotes numbers that favor a car other than whatever Ferrari was in the running... That makes you an instigator and that's why you so DEServe the heat that's in this thread... Sh!t, you should get more... While we're at it; if you would be so kind as to substantiate your claim that Ernesto doesn't own a (1:1) Ferrari, i think we'd all appreciate it... i'm tired of seeing the little remarks, here and there... Allan, do YOU really have a Lamborghini...? Or a Ferrari...? Or a Lotus...? Or whatever else you claim you have...? Can you prove it...? i remember when i first came here and the first time i checked your profile... "Whoa!", i thought, "this guy has all sorts of awesome cars...! He's someone i'd like to meet to hear his opinions on the different cars, his experiences, etc...." But fortunately, i've met other, more down to earth FerrariChatters and i've learned a lot since i've been here... As of today, i have three (maybe 4) seperate, set dates to meet different people on FerrariChat, over the next 6 months; all of my experiences hitherto have been great and i foresee the same results in the future; i'm glad you're not any of my experiences, past, present or future. With all of this bullsh!t aside, you should know that for a non-owning enthusiast, you are a tremendous let-down and a loser; if you were the only exotic owner i'd ever met or spoke to, i'd probably be convinced to spout the same inane nonsense that you do... How sad is that...? i don't own an exotic, nor have i ever driven one (accept for an NSX), but i know there are few people who have feelings for these cars like i do... You're definitely not one of them... i love Lamborghinis more than you ever could, and i've only seen a handful, never even sat in one; i'll probably love Ferraris more than anything, forever, no matter what... You give off this impression that the cars in your driveway are nothing more than status symbols and i'm willing to bet that's the only reason you bought a Ferrari (if you really own one)... Your initial post glows brightly with anti-Ferrari undertones, then you shift your position and say you were highlighting the viper... i've heard a lot of great feedback on Vipers but i would take a 246 (you know, the 'fake' Ferrari) before i'd take the newest, most powerful Viper... Comparing numbers makes no sense, Motor Trend obviously has no idea what Ferraris are really about or they're just trying to meet a quota for that month's issue... No one else comes on here posting these numbers, so that also tells me that you're unaware of what Ferraris are all about... This straight line, under 10 seconds crap is crap - Enzo isn't a legend 'cause he (inadvertently) failed at making great 1/4 cars, he's a legend 'cause he succeeded at making THE ABSOLUTE BEST racecars... Have you ever taken your Lamborghini on a track...? Do you use the NOS then or just when you're straight-lining it against some high school old kid, in his import...? With absolutely no track experience, EVER, i'd probably eat you on a track, in your own Ferrari, against you in your Lamborghini... Stop peddling your anti-Ferrari bullsh!t here... We're tired of it... We know what Ferraris are really about and if we don't, then we're here to learn... Some of us love Lamborghinis and never compare them to Ferraris in the way that you do... i think the Countach is one of the most exotic-looking automobiles the world has seen or ever will see, but that doesn't make them better than Ferraris, not even in my own, personal opinion... No one's opinions matter, opinions are just opinions... But the facts remain, Ferraris are a race-history legend and well beyond any realm of any other exotic, past or present; comparing 0-60 and 1/4 mile times is just laughable... Laughable bulls!t. Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:28 pm:    Thanks Matt... By the way my opinions are based on general feeling. I don't have much track experience (3 outings) and don't understand car dynamics the way a racer or some journalists would. It would be interesting to see how others would rate their experiences, see how mine measure up. Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:26 pm:    Well, if it's safe to post again... I have driven a Murcielago and a 550. A 575 is next in the test drive list. The 550 was a better GT car while I felt the Murcielago was an outragous machine. It does what it looks like it's supposed to do, and it does it quite well. It attracts a lot of unwanted attention though. Think of a Diablo, just much tighter build. Acceleration was suprisingly similar to a 6.0 Diablo, even though engine output numbers look lopsided in the Murcielago's direction. The 550 I drove was a coupe 6 spd. It handled extremely well and felt very comfortable at speed or crawling around town. It takes the bumps better than the Murcielago too. Much more liveable. Matt (Matt_lamotte) Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 342 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:24 pm:    Guys I have to stick up for Taek on this one. Although I don't know him having seen some of his post here as well as LamboChat i don't think he has bought into the Lambos rule everything part of it. Allen on the other hand does seem to have some pretty strong feeling but I wouldn't let it bug you guys to much. Just words on a screen when you get down to it. Michael Wogronic (Michael_fvm) Junior Member Username: Michael_fvm Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:20 pm:    Erik, I noticed your post and then noticed your name was "TeenFerrariFan." If you are a teen, it is funny how you contribute more mature posts than us "adults". Its sad that too many of these threads have turned into "mine is better than yours." Anyway, I have extensively driven both the Murcielago and the 575M...and...I like them both. These are two cars that have as many similarities as they have differences. Each has likes and dislikes. What I may like, someone else may not like. It comes down to a matter of preference. Regardless, they are both terrific vehicles. Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:18 pm:    I'd have a few extra ones for the road Allan...always a good idea. The Viper is more of a Lambo anyway.Didn't Lambo do the V10 development work for Dodge? Of course they did. I think Lambos are the flashiest fastest tractor cars in the world, bar none. The Ferrari vs (insert your car here) stuff is all bogus. There is no maker that has done what Ferrari has. I bet the new VW-Lambos will be even better. I heard the Galardo is available with a bud vase allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 438 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:07 pm:    Let me show you what happens to Lamborghinis when you turbocharge them: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~fp3k-htt/pme_web_top_us.htm Haha, Bob Norwood, thats a great guy to take comments from, his bombs blow up on every corner. Well, i hope you guys had a nice day at work, im just sitting here, sippin margaritas by the pool, now its time to go have lunch. Think Ill take the Lambo, dont wanna have to worry about running into any of those pesky BENZES!lol Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 305 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:05 pm:    "If you feel he (Allan) is not presenting his point in the best way, then comment on that, not on Lamborghini Owners or the cars or their provenance." From another post of mine. I actually value my reputation in this site because when I have comments I would prefer to have the answered honestly and with friendly tones as they have been done so far (until this post). So Dan, I'm sorry, but it's not enough. I consider myself one who has contributed well to this site and answered posts with my best intentions and honest opinions. Even if it is supporting Lamborghinis. Rob Lay (Rob328gts) Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4689 Registered: 12-2000 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:05 pm:    OK, agreed. Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 4:00 pm:    I don't support bashing. I support Lamborghinis. As for Allan, I have to admit the guy straight up pisses me off. "Allan, you really like to rub in the fact that people have wanted cars, don't you? Not exactly the nicest thing in the world to do. Especially when you got some on that list too." (From an earlier post of mine in this thread) I have only said that I agree with some information Allan has mentioned. Go back and read some of my threads. I give a rats ass about Allans integrity. I don't even know the guy. What I do know is that Lamborghini makes a kick ass car, as does Ferrari. Tenney (Tenney) Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 353 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:58 pm:    Think the world of the Maranello, but would agree with Allan and others that a boost in performance wouldn't hurt it. Oh, and one of the cool things about the Viper is that it is a Dodge. Rob Lay (Rob328gts) Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4686 Registered: 12-2000 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:57 pm:    Taek, Allan was bashing Ferraris, you're just supporting his bashing. Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 303 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:57 pm:    Thank you Erik!! Finally. Erik (Teenferrarifan) New member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:55 pm:    I don't think we should knock lambo's on this thread, but let people know why the 575m is/isn't better in our opinion. Lets not make this a lambo is or isn't lets use proof and first hand experiences. How many people have driven both and what are your opinions? Erik Rob Lay (Rob328gts) Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4683 Registered: 12-2000 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:55 pm:    There Allan goes again bashing the Ferrari, love it for what it is or sell it, you don't deserve it. [Toggle Allan's level on] "Lamborghini is nothing but a mass produced kit car. I've run 1,800 HP through Ferrari engines with no problems. We put a turbo on a Lamborghini once and first time we start it up at low boost it twisted the block." -Bob Norwood 03/2002 [Toggle Allan's level off] Dan (Bobafett) Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 491 Registered: 9-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:54 pm:    I think it's time to move on... --Dan Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 302 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:52 pm:    Rob I hardly restated the same thing. I referred to ricers. You threw in Lambo owners. Tell me how I've bashed Ferraris in this thread. I've only given opinion and stated that opinion is all it is. "To each their own". Sean F (Agracer) Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 105 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:51 pm:    Rob, where is JRV's site? Rob Lay (Rob328gts) Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 4682 Registered: 12-2000 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:49 pm:    Taek, "Ferrari owners get bashed" We're use to it, from Lambo owners and ricers. I think I said about 100 messages ago something about everyone else is on the offensive except Ferrari. You just restated the same thing and that proves my point. Without a doubt Ferrari is the single most "compare to" marque. Matt (Matt_lamotte) Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 341 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:48 pm:    So has anyone had any good races with a Lambo? Just kidding Rob just kidding! Carry on with this never ending bottomless conversation that was already fought out months ago. Two great companies making great cars that are capable of very amazing statitistics in all fields of performance. Unfortunatly one model from either company does not dominate every aspect of performance and probably never will so this discussion is doomed to bounce from one statistic to the next. Lambos win some and Ferrai win some. I like and respect both. For those of you enjoying this debate http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/185886.html Same thing really, just a different day Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:42 pm:    Ok-here's an unmodified one...Those Lambos can sure haul •••• allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 437 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:38 pm:    Tony, dont make me break out some pics of you and your boyfriend and modify those. allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 436 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:36 pm:    I figured id go to take my ferrari out for a spin now and see what all the hoopla is about, but i forgot, its not here, its in the shop, where it immediately went after purchase, due to the fact it was too slow. allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 435 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:36 pm:    I Marq J Ruben (Qferrari) Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 333 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:32 pm:    Excellent, Tony...absolutely excellent!...and probably nearer the truth than Lambo owners would ever admit. Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 300 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:32 pm:    You guys should go to one of those ricer forums and see how Ferrari owners get bashed. I see a lot of similarities here and it's pertty disconcerting. This has been my first foray into some of the fights in this board, but I think there is no justification for a lot of this crap. Some of you scream class, but show none in this thread. Glickenhaus throws his facts in there, and lets his experiences speak for themselves. That is class, not "tractor DNA" comments. Rob, I respect you for opening such a convenient and helpful ferrari forum. But 2.5 years in this board does not mean you have met a good sampling of Lambo owners. Especially since a lot I know don't even mention they have one. James Glickenhaus (Napolis) Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1152 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:27 pm:    Alan Did I miss something? You said: "I disagree, the ferrari is not even close. Ferrari needs to get its ass in gear. They were great cars up until the Testarossa and F40, and then, they lost sight of what an exotic car should be" I mentioned the F50 and the Enzo. You replied: "James, in my eyes the F50 nor the Enzo are anything to be proud of. Extremely low production, extremely high price." I'm confused I thought that was the definition of an exotic car. Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:26 pm:    Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice) Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 299 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:25 pm:    Ernesto, I was considering purchase of a 575M but I'm going to wait after seeing depreciation of the 550 and maybe another higher iteration. I do like the 575's looks better than the Murcielagos too, unless the Murci barchetta comes out . I have driven all kinds of cars, from tiny engined Abarth's to the prewar Bentleys my dad collects. In new cars I've had my share of experiences. Although I hate to say it in the way I've been bashed in this thread, Ferrari has come to be the brand I like most. If you look at my recent threads, most have been buying questions on Ferrari cars. I want to close my wife on getting a 456 for the family, and a 512M for fun. Just because I agree with comments Allan made I'm getting bashed. What's right is right. No matter how he presents it there is truth in a lot of what he has said. Ernesto (T88power) Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1437 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:24 pm:    Your right, Luke. LOL Ernesto Lucas Taratus (Karmavore) Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 151 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:22 pm:    "Your right John, i have no class, but i do have a Ferrari." - Allan ----- Insulting someone because they use the word 'your' when they meant 'you're' is expectable. Insulting someone because they don't own a Ferrari is ridiculous. Luke. Pat Pasqualini (Enzo) Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 462 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:21 pm:    SOME Lambo drivers are like school on Christmas= No Class Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt) Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:20 pm:    Lets just finish the topic of who has more class.. Pat Pasqualini (Enzo) Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 461 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:20 pm:    "Drivers Wanted" Ernesto (T88power) Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1435 Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:17 pm:    Taek, the Murcielado is an awesome car, very fast and will undoubtedly attract lots of attention when you drive it around. I just prefer a 575M, which in my opinion looks a lot better (I have seen both in person). Never driven either, but in comparing a Diablo VT to a 550 (drove them both) I would take the 550 many times over. Like you said, to each his own. BTW, now that Lambo is owned by Audi/VW, they have a lot to worry about. The upcoming VW/Audi supercar will be based on the Gallardo, same chassis, engine (with more horsepower), and drivetrain. This is the same crap VW does with the rest of their models. Why would you want your Lambo to share underpinnings with a VW? That is ridiculous, and if that is the future of Lambo it is very sad indeed. Ernesto PS: If the Murcielago outsells the 575M, then please post some figures. It would be news to me. Jay P. Ross (Eilig) Junior Member Username: Eilig Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:17 pm:    "...in my opinion, the Viper is an awesome performance bargain and its numbers were very close to the Murci, infact, too close. Sadly, the Ferrari was not even close, in any area." Are you kidding me? Have you ever driven a Viper? I drove a 2001 Viper GTS. Here are my top 10 reasons to hate a Viper: 1) Sounds like crap. 2) Cockpit gets super hot, even on a cool day. 3) Exhaust resonance interrupts conversations, even at idle. And not a "good resonance" either. 4) Handles like crap, super nervous in the twisties. 5) Gauges look like crap. 6) Pedals not setup for heel and toe at all. 7) Super narrow driver's floor around pedals, and clutch pedal offset too far to the left. 8) Brakes are crap, didn't even have ABS until recently. 9) Actually costs more to insure than most Ferraris. 10) Shifter linkage feels like crap. Comparing a Viper to a Ferrari 575 is a total joke. Go drive them both on the same day, then tell us what you think. John Force's Funny Car will blow away all three of these cars, but which would you rather take on a drive? I'll take the 575 please, thank you. allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 434 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:16 pm:    Your right John, i have no class, but i do have a Ferrari. allan fiedler (Allanlambo) Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 433 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:15 pm:    Ernesto, the 575 does not outsell the Murcielago. I am not only a passionate Lambo owner, but a passionate Ferrari owner. Hey, my wife likes her Ferrari!