| Author | Message | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2003 |
Sounds like the broker is going to pay for the labor, no? Even if the car was there, the Broker would do it himself, personally? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3503 Registered: 9-2001 |
Im confused, how is the broker going to do the service - ??? plus he is not in CA. 328 do not need engine outs but labor is still the biggest cost. To counter his offer - ask him for 3k back - now and call it a lesson learned - if you don't want to pursue it | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 149 Registered: 4-2003 |
Charles, that sounds promising. The engine out service is mainly labor as the nomenclature implies... Engine out. They will need a new belt, tensioners and seals. Above and beyond that it may be a good time to look at your waterpump, and clutch since you are right there. Hey, at least it will give you some time to enjoy the car and save for the service for next year. Cheers! | ||
| Charles Davenport (Cd328)
New member Username: Cd328 Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2003 |
I was living in upstate NY when I bought the car and just moved to Ca. I paid for the car with a personal check to Arkansas. The broker told me that the paint was only a few months old, he spoke to the body shop that painted it and they told him that they did not polish it, so I guess that is pretty simple, he also told me that since I would have to do a service next year(and I knew this going in) that he would do the service for me if I paid for parts. ??? Chuck | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 909 Registered: 5-2001 |
Great advice from Art even if he can't spell. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 326 Registered: 1-2003 |
You may have some protection of funds used in the transaction if you used a credit card (In which these funds can be disputed) for part of the down payment. | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
New member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2003 |
Art - That is good advice | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1497 Registered: 6-2001 |
Charles: I assume you are a California resident, and your check for the auto was payable from a California bank. If those are correct, these are what I think your options are: 1. If the written representation was that the car had a fresh service, and it had not, that is a misrepresentation. Under California law, you have the right to recind the transaction, or obtain compensation to obtain the benefit of the bargain. 2. As to the paint issue: If it is just "dull" and can be buffed out, then you are stuck with the paint as is. I would NOT drive the car until you get this resolved with the broker. Driving the car could be construed as acceptance and waiver of the defects in the vehicle. Lastly, the broker placed the auto into the stream of interstate commerce. That means that because the vehicle was sold in California, the California courts have jurisdiction, and can resolve your claim here. Make sure that the attorney you may hire restricts the pray for damages to under $75,000.00, because if you ask for more, you could easily end up in Federal court, exactly where you don't wish to be. Once you set this up, have the attorney write the broke, and in a professional manner, tell him what you intend to do, and ask him to make the car as represented. The downside is indeed what everyone here is telling you: you should have gotten a Prepurchase Inspection. Since this is your first buy, its probably a lesson learned. Hope this helps. Art | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 146 Registered: 4-2003 |
Charles, I respect your decision at this juncture to not reveal any names. The second you do the damage is done and any ammicable compromising is out he door. What did the broker say when you called him???? | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Junior Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 173 Registered: 4-2003 |
"I think I will with hold the name of the broker until I get something resolved." In gods name why??? Things to consider are these.... Some one here may be a good customer of theirs and could help you with leverage. Some one here could be a potential customer of theirs and need your advice. Some one here could be a past customer of theirs and have had a similar exp, and can help you with yours. In my view, to withhold this info is both ludicrous and foolhardy. IE kind of dumb. DrS | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 323 Registered: 1-2003 |
Though your situation is unfortunate and you did get a lesson out of this, you could have purchased a like car with records, better than average paint and belts with only 10K miles on them......then POP! A belt goes! You just never know. An experienced detailer or body shop may be able to polish up your paint. If you are handy with motors, there are plenty of threads that go into detail on a do-it yourself belt replacement. All-in-all, the car is probaly OK and you may be upside down in its value for a while. Balance the doom and gloom posts with positives. In the long run, you will be OK. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 108 Registered: 3-2003 |
Chalk it up to experience. If you hadn't realized that Car Dealers shouldn't be trusted to look out for your best interests at least you know now. Let's hope he throws you some money to help with your situation. Otherwise there isn't any benefit to witholding his name. This site is for the benefit of Ferrari enthusiasts not creeps who misrepresent their products. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2002 |
You might just ask to negotiate a lower price-the broker likely has that cash sitting in his hand-Ask for the money for the belt service and take the rest as your lesson for not having a PPI. I also bought an F-car sight unseen-would have been almost impossible to fly out for a quick look, but did get a thorough PPI by a recommended ferrari dealer and talked to them about the car. I'm not rich enough to take the chance of getting screwed. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3821 Registered: 8-2002 |
You didn't buy it from the Auto Toy Store, did you...? | ||
| Charles Davenport (Cd328)
New member Username: Cd328 Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2003 |
Very well thanks for the advice, I think I will with hold the name of the broker until I get something resolved. However, if I see there name come up on this forum I will definately comment on it. Chuck | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3490 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am sure many of us would like to know who the broker was | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1002 Registered: 12-2001 |
Well, it seems that both fresh paint and belt service are subject to objective determination: i don't know what the service interval is for the car or whether the belts should have been changed again, given intervening mileage.If a 3 year old belt service in this case means that it shouldn't need belts,now, then the service was either not done or done poorly. The "not done" is subject to a claim, the done poorly, probably not. As to the paint, it could be a fresh bad paint job,which you are stuck with or if its not fresh, you have may have a claim on that, as well. As to the disclaimer of warranty, it sounds like a plausible argument can be made that but for the written reps (and the mileage), no warranty was being made. I would work with both the broker and dealer in a nonconfrontational way to get some satisfaction (eg will a first rate detailer be able to bring out the shine in the paint?), before you go nuclear, but send a letter without much delay, to create a record before you have the car too long, or put any serious miles on it yourself. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3489 Registered: 9-2001 |
though its too late now, many of us are always willing to eyeball a car for a potential purchaser so even if you don't want to spend 300 for the PPI (which you should do) you at least have a second opinion on the car | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2231 Registered: 9-2001 |
Not trying to be rude, but if you bought the car sight unseen with no PPI then you kinda got what you deserved. I have bought several Ferraris from out of state and have always had a PPI done, went and eyeballed the car myself, or both. Unless you have something in writing documenting what was promised by the seller you're out of luck from a legal prospective. However, the seller may still be willing to make you happy from a good will prospective. Good luck. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1016 Registered: 11-2001 |
when i was 355 shopping i dealt with a dealer who swore up and down that this car i was interested in was in "perfect" condition. "PERFECT". thankfully i put it into PPI at a factory shop and they put it up on the lift and just called me right then and there to enumerate a zillion abuses and problems before they spent any more time on it. needless to say i passed, and when the dealer called me back with another "perfect" car, i was duly educated as to their use of the english language. good luck sorting out your deal, charles. doody. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3486 Registered: 9-2001 |
damn, you could have gotten Bobs (?) car in texas about that - hey anyway you have paid full price now the question goes back to what was promised and what end up being deleivered. | ||
| Charles Davenport (Cd328)
New member Username: Cd328 Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2003 |
Paid $49k no PPI Chuck | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2229 Registered: 9-2001 |
Did you have a PPI done by a professional ? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3484 Registered: 9-2001 |
and if you don't mind - give us an idea of what you paid - that will at least give us an idea of where you are coming from. ie if you paid 60 then maybe you should be pissed and have your head examined but if you paid 30k maybe you just accept it | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3483 Registered: 9-2001 |
how do you know it needs belts? | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Junior Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2003 |
A nasty letter from an attorney should get them to cough up at least some of the money to freshen up the paint and get the servicing done. Or do you want to return the car? Rgds, Faisal. | ||
| Charles Davenport (Cd328)
New member Username: Cd328 Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2003 |
yes just new paint and fresh service Chuck | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1001 Registered: 12-2001 |
Was any description in writing? | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 138 Registered: 4-2003 |
Charles, I spoke to SEVERAL Dealers that said " I am describing the car, 100% acuurately because after I ship it I do not want to have to take it back. Alluding to the fact that they would easily take the car back. Immediately call the dealer and tell him your concerns. The paint is subjective, and maybe a polishing could rectify the condition. In regards to the belts, you did not know that they would need to be changed after examining the service records?? That one seems a little more cut and dry, as you probably should have known the time/mileage interval. In California (and many other states I am sure) , the As Is verbiage is a moot point and is redundant. ALL USED CARS SOLD IN CALIFORNIA ARE ASSUMED "AS IS ", thus the term Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) prevails 100% of the time. Legally, I do not think that you have a lot of recourse. I would however, IMMEDIATELY call the dealer and tell him your concerns. Best case scenario, you are out the cost of shipping. | ||
| Charles Davenport (Cd328)
New member Username: Cd328 Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
Out of state sale, and from a broker. It is a nice car and just what I wanted but it was not as described chuck | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1160 Registered: 3-2001 |
Chuck, I hope you get some good advise here... this is why I've always recommended to potential buyers to invest in cheap airfare and have a first-hand look. It's cheap insurance compared to what you're going through now. The term "Excellent Condition" is a relative term and means a lot of different things to different people. Hope you get it worked out! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3811 Registered: 8-2002 |
Charles, welcome to FerrariChat...! Sorry to hear that your transaction didn't result in a manner that was otherwise prescribed by the seller. You're certainly in the right place for helpful answers to questions like this and many others... Hope things look better from here; keep us "posted" (sorry you had to deal with that pun after your first post)...  | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 406 Registered: 1-2002 |
Charles: Where did you buy the car? Dealer or private sale. Was it a California car or out of state? | ||
| Charles Davenport (Cd328)
New member Username: Cd328 Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2003 |
I bought an 89 328 GTS with 48k miles with new paint and a 3 year old service. I get the car and the paint looks dull and I am told that the belts need to be changed. Now I paid a top price for it and was wondering if there is any recourse. I did get a bill of sale that said "as is" Chuck |