| Author | Message | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1201 Registered: 10-2002 |
WM The track is in Cuddybackville,NY about 1.5 hours up RT 17 Ellenville,NY exit. You can rent the track for the night for $2500. Includes carts for 12 people. More people at $100 per. They have karts for kids as well. 6pm-11pm. By that time your arms will be sore. If your a pro you can rent a shifter Kart thats faster than Alan's Lambo for an additional $400. but the regular ones are plenty fast and fun. We're setting up a couple of dates in July and you and any other FChater's are welcome. I'll call you monday at work. Best Jim | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1015 Registered: 12-2001 |
Jim: where is the "local" cart track? And can you rent a cart from them? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1198 Registered: 10-2002 |
Another good way to learn driving is by trying Karts. They are a lot of fun and you can rent and try them very reasonably. Last night a group of friends rented the local Kart track. We drove untill our arms fell off at $225. per. Karts really teach you control, smoothness and opposite lock. Best Jim | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 396 Registered: 2-2003 |
Phillip, autocrossing sounds like its right up your alley. Having an instructor is great.. you can learn how to manuver and then you can practice how to manuver your own car in a controlled environment. Don't listen to the nay-sayers. If your a soccer mom driving your Quest van to practice with the kids, thats one thing. Learning how to drive properly and in a Ferrari is a good thing. Sunny | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 289 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's the idea, you snap ends at 80+ in the parking lot, learn what the car feels like when you're headed to that point, and learn how to avoid doing it when on public roads. This is step 1, get the car out of control in a safe place. Step 2 is to learn how to get it back in control (driver's ed) Then, once you're safe enough, (track driving is DANGEROUS, make no mistake.) take it to the track with a good instructor and learn how to REALLY drive! Here is that video clip btw. http://www.dreamwithyoureyeswideopen.com/ferrarichat/carousel.mpg Best! Ben. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2003 |
You can be responsible for Ben, (a self-proclaimed Neopyte when it comes to driving) as the rear end snaps and he swaps ends at 80MPH.. Yikes. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 286 Registered: 6-2002 |
I disagree, I've learned a great deal by sliding my car around in abandoned parking lots. It teaches you real world, street control limits, and I would recomend ANY new driver in any vehicle practice it regularily! Now, the track will teach you to actually be a good driver. There is no substitute, but the parking-lot antics are good as well. BOTH should be mandatory for driving a Ferrari. Philip- driving/oversteer/ is fine for the car, and a hell of a lot of fun. While driving at 10/10ths on the street all the time is plain stupid, what the heck is life for when you're given a Ferrari, the PCH, and a clear patch? Toss the car around a bit, just do it responsabily, and make sure you're not endangering any one else. Heck, I *accelerate* off many off-ramps that I know, it's FUN, and allows a great blast to the car's limits. Here's a clip of me getting a little sideways (NOT the fastest route incidentally, I should have widened my line a bit to go faster, but it was pretty cool despite.) at about 100mph coming out of turn 6 at Sears Point. I belive you can hear my passanger scream. Now THAT's fun! Best! Ben. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2242 Registered: 9-2001 |
While sliding looks cool, its not the fastest way around a paved track. Smooth steering inputs and as little sliding and wheelspin as possible is ! | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2002 |
Philip, Drive in a local autocross, have your alignment set a bit more aggressive, adjust your tire pressure's . Lastly 30 or 40 mph is too damn slow to have any real fun when hanging the tail out. One thing that drives me nut's is to see any supposed sports car driven like a little old lady is behind the wheel. Think about when you see someone in a sports car brake when they are going 50 and the on ramp is marked for 40 mph.Drive hard ,drive fast, otherwise why buy the car. If you don't track your car and you are getting more than six months of tire life ,well you ain't trying hard enough. If you break something on the car they have a little something in the industry known as spare parts. Someone I know has a great saying :" Once you take a hit of the go-fast crack pipe you will never stop ". If you want to learn to hang the tail out at 40 mph at least hose the parking lot down. Sliding a car in the wet is a good way to feel the car. Remember you feel what the car is telling you in your butt . If you have a local kart track that's a great way to learn to slide. WFO | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1011 Registered: 12-2001 |
hugh, brian, thanks. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 299 Registered: 3-2002 |
Whart asks: "This post, and the responses, raise some good issues. In a modern car, are lap times ever increased by tail out/drift maneuvers?" Yes. First, "drift" is caused by slip angle, not by sliding/skidding. If you are not in a drift through most corners, then you are wasting time. You get the most out of your tires when drifting. Second, even a bit of sliding/skidding can be very useful in certain situations. Typically its used in order to "rotate the car", more quickly lining you up so that you can get back on the gas much sooner, lengthening the following straight. This is definitely NOT an every corner, or even most corner situation. Rather, its a specialty situation. And on-track, its an advanced maneuver. At autocrosses, its tried much more often, though only the more advanced drivers really use it to advantage. But many more use it... 'cause its just plain fun. Whart continues his inquiry: "Have any of you done the "skid pad" stuff at Skippy or the other driving schools? What did you learn?" Yes. See my previous post answering Philip's question. I basically give a major part of the skid pad lesson there. Whart asks: "Oh, yeah, one other question. What does heel and toe have to do with drifting?" Absolutely nothing. Heel and toe is caused by the need to operate three pedals with two feet. You need to do this as you are braking hard into a corner and you need to downshift. Obviously, you need one foot on the brake... no letting off there. You need one on the clutch. But if you do the shift without matching engine speed (keep in mind we are operating at high RPMs), you are going to add a bunch of engine braking as you release the clutch, shifting the overall braking bias at a really *bad* time, not to mention putting a lot of wear on your clutch... so, you use the heel of your brake foot to blip the throttle as you release the clutch. Generally, there should be no drifting going on at that time... at least not until you are a rather advanced driver... and even then, the object of the heel-and-toe is just to not destroy the drift by unbalancing the car. HTH. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 298 Registered: 3-2002 |
Philip... [applause]... glad to see someone who wants to drive their Ferrari... [applause]... glad to see someone mature enough to know he should experiment and practice handling the car... [applause]... glad to see someone smart enough to know a big empty parking lot is the perfect place for that sort of thing (far better than even a track). Ignore all naysayers in this thread and go out and have fun with your car! Now to your question... don't focus on trying to get the car to "swing"... rather, focus on learning how to generate "slip angle" and on shifting the weight of your car from front to back to create over/under-steer. First thing to do... get some cones or other markers that will allow you to set up a 100 to 200 ft diameter circle that you can see while driving. Given the right parking lot, sidewalk chalk will work okay, but cones are best. Second, practice driving at a moderate pace around the circle... you want to be able to hold the car as close to the cones as possible without hitting them. Increase speed slowly until you can just barely keep the car on the tight line around the cones. Third, note where you have the wheel turned... do not move the wheel... give it a little more gas... your car will understeer... that is, the speed will exceed your front wheels ability to turn-in a bit... you will start moving away from the tight circle to a larger circle. Now let off the gas (gently)... the weight will shift a little to the front... that extra weight to the front will cause a somewhat abrupt turn-in... bringing you back to the that tighter circle. At this point you are throttle steering! That is, you are controlling the direction of the car with the throttle rather than the steering wheel (remember, in all the above, you never moved the steering wheel from the position you had it while doing constant speed around the circle). Play with this a while. Give gas more abruptly... that will shift the weight to the back, creating an initial sharp understeer; similarly with more abrupt lifts. Continue to experiment until you are too dizzy or you lose it and spin out. Its great fun and very instructive. Repeat in the opposite direction. Note that going around the circle counter-clockwise is much easier than clockwise (driver on inside of circle is easier to see the circle). After you've had fun with that, drop me a line and I'll give you lesson two. As for your objections to track days, I understand. But consider finding the area autocrosses! Autocrosses are organized by people like you and I who see the value of pushing your car to its limits in a nice big parking lot. They set up various courses with cones in open parking lots, set up timers, and everyone competes for the best times. Its great fun and great practice driving. AND its cheap... often as little as $15 or so. There are at least 6 autocross organizations in Ohio. Start with Columbus SCC... next event is May 26... http://www.cscc-scca.org/ and also look at http://www.ovr-scca.org/racing_solo2.asp . BTW, if you have access to a great big parking lot, you may become best friends with those autocross organizers!  Have fun! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 472 Registered: 4-2002 |
You know.... some of you guys are right. I re-read the posts and what Phillip is doing in a parking lot is not going to hurt him or the car. Its not going to teach him anything about how to drive and its not really going to give him any realistic feel for proper handling.... but it will be lots of fun. When I think back to all the stupid things I used to do in cars before I discovered the track, its a bit hypocritical to yell at him for doing the same. So.... I wont. Still, Phillip my boy: GO TO THE TRACK. You will love it! Most PCA track weekends cost less than $300. They will welcome a Ferrari. You will get some great instruction. You will discover exactly what the phrase "to go faster, you must first slow down" really means. Read what Hugh has been saying and you'll have a good head start. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 143 Registered: 4-2003 |
Doody, yeah but he wanted to do powerslides in reverse....Like in the movie "Risky Business" with Tom Cruise. You know in the P 928, in that big huge parking lot, for a half hour. Hey I am kidding of course.. Have a good weekend ye all. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1017 Registered: 11-2001 |
geez guys - lighten up. a big empty parking lot is a FINE controlled environment. it ain't a track for sure, but it certainly doesn't warrant the kind of scoldings philip's getting. and i certainly am old enough to know better, and my spelling is rather impeccable, thank you very much ;-). and one can learn a TON by experimenting in a controlled environment safely and intelligently. there's no magic here - it's just physics. putting your ferrari into a spin in a big-ass, empty parking lot isn't exactly the end of the world. and knowing the limits of your car is just incredibly important - regardless of whether you're on a track or just on the street. it's better to be prepared for an eventuality and not encounter it than to encounter it and not be prepared. i've seen plenty of folks freak out when they've lost control on snow, for example. my advice to these people is to go find a big, empty, no-obstructions parking lot and keep losing control until you figure out how to deal with it. it just isn't rocket science. lay off the poor guy! he's trying to do the right thing and folks are stomping on him with two feet for no really good reason. doody. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1189 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh I am quite sure that you and others on this forum could lap some posters in a neon even if those persons were driving a 962 which probably wouldn't be pretty... Best Jim | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 763 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>Hugh If you have enough grunt you don't even have to lighten up the old rear. (Just don't forget to dial in that opposite lock as you work the loud pedal) Best Jim<< Jim, you're absoloutly right! But, unfortunatly (or fortunatly) my little track piggie isn't as endowed under the loud pedal as I'd like; not a bad thing, as having to maintain momentum to keep the z06's behind me, has matured me into a driver that can appreciate smoothness. Best Regards, Hubert. | ||
| Ken Ghiringhelli (Kenny94945)
Junior Member Username: Kenny94945 Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2002 |
If I may, Philip asked how to get the feeling that the back end is swinging. No one mention driving a figure 8. Somewhat low speed...just need to find a parking lot. Besides hitting concrete wall, the worse that should/ could happen is that you flat spot your tires if you spin out. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 142 Registered: 4-2003 |
Here is the point, really (a simplistic but illustrative version). As your car transitions through a turn (or really even going straight), your tires have maximum traction capabilyty of 100%. Let's say you have entered a turn and now the load on your tires is "using" 60% of all of the available traction, ANY ADDITIONAL input (ie braking, acceleration, weight transfer, steering wheel movement, etc) is an ADDITIONAL load and is transmitted to the tires. Once you exceed 100% of the tires traction capabilities, guess what, you have broken traction. If you enter the turn and you are carrying so much speed that you are using 98% of the tires traction, ANY SMALL input will cause a tire to exceed 100% traction capabilites and you will break traction. Soooo, using this formula, you could do 20 MPH, turn right, and stab the throttle and you would defintely break traction. Question is.....is that what you really want to do?? The RIGHT way to do it, takes a lot more skill. Why?? Imagine that you are at least a proficient race car driver. You have so much "Feel" for the car that when you enter a turn, your inputs are so refined that you are using 98% of the traction available. Here is the problem: If you are doing it "right" and you are smooth and proficent with your inputs, YOU ARE GOING VERY FAST. ANY ADDITIONAL INPUT AT THAT SPEED WILL CAUSE THE CAR TO LOSE TRACTION AND MAYBE IMPOSSIBLE FOR EVEN A EXPERIENCED PILOT TO CONTROL. Here is my point. You mentioned 30-40 MPH as your speed. At that speed you would need TO DO RADICAL manuvers to break the rear end loose (ie, extremely sharp turning radius, combined with stabbing the throttle) to get siginificant oversteer. If that is what you want to do. Knock yourself out. I think it would be stupid. On the other end of the spectrum, if you want to learn how to drive your car proficently, your vehicle speed will naturally increase and REACTION/SKILL demands will increase exponentially! you DEFINITLY do not want to take an off ramp (or any turn for that matter, including on the track) at a high rate of speed and try to find out what will happen. I guess what I am saying is if you want to do 30 MPH in a parking lot, you will be doing donuts. If you want to drive the car a speeds, YOU WILL NEED A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT...THE TRACK. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1184 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh If you have enough grunt you don't even have to lighten up the old rear. (Just don't forget to dial in that opposite lock as you work the loud pedal) Best Jim | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Junior Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 126 Registered: 2-2003 |
My PLAN: Read every book I could find. Talked to everybody that would share ('hangarfly') Driving school on track - Jiminey, Lord knows many are less than two 308 distributor caps and wires...and a longer lasting investment. Most Ferraris are beautifully balanced - but as was said before many modern tires let go abruptly making self instruction much more dangerous than may seem. This PLAN saved my bottom when I had a 911. They really need to include driving lessons with that car as they have a couple of wt transfer characteristics that become apparent even at non race speeds. hope this helps | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 762 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bill- Yes and no. Getting sideways, tail wagging, etc. scrubs speed and time = slower lap times. However, there is, as I'm sure you know, a difference b/w drifting a car, and getting "rotation." The idea of adequate rotation is a paramount suspension set-up issue most prominent in FF cars, and here getting the tail to "step-out" actually helps lap times, but getting there safely, and w/out snap oversteer is a fundamental property of an "neutral" FF car . Re: heel/toe and drifting. Most "drifters" I know (my friend Dave is a member of Running Free, a Tokyo based drifter club) induce a drift by getting the rear light (braking) dropping into a low enough gear, and pull it off by mediating the drift with the throttle. There's more to it, than that, but it's the jist. | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Junior Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 199 Registered: 7-2002 |
Philip no flaming for trying here!, Innocent till proven guilty so I always assumed it was/ is in a safe place! four ways to play 1. Lift off oversteer Turn into the bend under power, as soon as you have turned come immediately off the gas, the weight will transfer forwards onto the front wheels and lift the rear, as the car starts to slide apply opposite lock and a little power and carry the slide through on a balanced throttle 2. Turning on the brakes In effect the same thing as lift of Oversteer but brake hard into the corner and turn whilst still braking, then as the rear starts to move come off the brakes and follow the instructions above 3. Power Oversteer Important to minimise understeer by having the engine 'on cam' otherwiseit will just wash out Slower in to corner (for a 90 degree maybe 30 to 35mph but in as low as gear as you can (1st or 2nd), at the apex floor it and then catch as in option 1 4. Scandinavian Flick Great fun but make sure you have loads of space as it take practice, approaching a right hand bend positio nthe car in the middle of the 'track', under power flick the steering approx 1/4 turn to the left, unsettling the car, as the rear starts to slide, apply 1/2 turn of right lock and all the power you can muster in effect using the pendulum effect of the weight at the rear enjoy!!! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1004 Registered: 12-2001 |
This post, and the responses, raise some good issues. In a modern car, are lap times ever increased by tail out/drift maneuvers? I agree that the 348, and the other mid-engine ferraris are not as predictable as front engined cars when the rear gets loose. When i did Skippy, the cars were set up so that it was pretty easy to drift them thru the "S" curve at Limerock. I don't think its that easy in a mid engined ferrari. The Maranello is much more predictable, and i have, on tight twisties, had occasion to drive at the edge of traction a few times. It was not a significant movement, though; when i was taken around the Glen in my car, the instructor seemed to have to drift it in that big first turn, which frankly, scared the hell out of me, cause its such a big, heavy car. Have any of you done the "skid pad" stuff at Skippy or the other driving schools? What did you learn? Oh, yeah, one other question. What does heel and toe have to do with drifting? I thought the point of that was to be able to slow down using the brake, and blip the throttle at the same time when downshifting, to set yourself up to accelerate as you go thru the turn? | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4374 Registered: 8-2002 |
Kevin, I could go after your spelling..... m | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2489 Registered: 2-2001 |
Phillip, go to the track, You should have No problem getting the 308 to slide, those things are very slide happy Its dangerous on the road and the greatest danger is you miss the swing, it turns into a spin & you hit something. You can push the limits much better on the track and have more fun & less worries | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 145 Registered: 9-2002 |
Matt, I could go after your punctuation, but I won't. We're here to talk about cars. How do you know my age? Nevermind... Kevin | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4371 Registered: 8-2002 |
Kevin, Your age is showing in your post. "The instuctor said I can expect to reach speeds slightly north of 100mph. Guess where the track is set up? In a parking lot" Key word is INSTRUCTOR | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 143 Registered: 9-2002 |
Phillip, I personally don't agree with all the self-righteous responses to your initial post. How can making some 30-40mph turns in an open parking lot that can accommodate 3200 cars hurt anything or anyone? Make sure the lot is free of people and obstacles...then use your head. This is the way you are supposed to learn the limits of your ABS, rain driving, etc. I have my first stab at Formula 2000 driving tomorrow AM. The instuctor said I can expect to reach speeds slightly north of 100mph. Guess where the track is set up? In a parking lot! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1492 Registered: 6-2001 |
Phillip: Listen to Terry. Additionally, if you're doing this in the Ferrari, the 348 is noted for having a bit of a problem when they get loose. At the bear minimum, I'd get a book on driving the racetrack. I'd also try a gokart for a bit to see what a spin looks like. Art | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 471 Registered: 4-2002 |
Phillip, Stop it before you hurt yourself or the car. Contact the Porsche Club, BMW club, Tracquest or one of the many other "track day" organizations. Sign up for a track day event. Tell them you are a novice. They will put an experienced driving instructor with you. He will teach you step by step how to properly drive your car at high speed, in a safe environment. Trial and error is the WRONG way to learn to drive quickly! "swinging" the rear out and "cutting" the wheel are TERRIBLE things. Anything that will cause rapid or abrupt weight transfer from wheel to wheel wrecks your handling. Learn to drive correctly. Its much easier to learn properly the first time than to try and unlearn bad habits later! Another point: Oversteer in a modern Ferrari (or pretty much any modern sportscar with modern tires) is an extremely abrupt thing. Typically by the time the rear end begins to try and swap ends with the front, control is gone. "drifting" the car is not something that happens at low speeds. It also requires a very well balanced car, a skilled driver and a racetrack. I admire your desire to push your cars limits. Im not all trying to discourage you from pushing it further. If you take my advice and get involved in track driving you are likely to find it an addictive and extremely fun hobby. Get involved. Learn how to really drive your car quickly. You will be AMAZED at how fast you can really drive! One interesting thing about track nuts is that once you start doing lots of track events and your driving skill improves you will find you no longer drive "fast" on the street at all. The reality is that once you learn to really push your car to its limits, it will also become obvious that to do so on a public road would result in a fatal accident within the first few miles. You simply cannot really push a fast car on the street. Do yourself a favor: get involved in track day events! Tell us where you live. Im sure there are people here who can point you in the right direction for your area. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1736 Registered: 7-2001 |
If you want to learn to swing your rear end out, follow me around for a couple of days. It seem to happen every time I drive it! :-) | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 76 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think heal and toe downshifting is usually done before entering the turn. If you want to get a feel for what the car will do, find an empty large asphalt space-(maybe a company parking lot on the weekend) that you can use to make a big circle. Try your turns at a steady speed, slowing down and under acceleration. When your close to the limit, backing off the throtle abruptly may cause the rear end to come out as you are overwhelming the rear tires by asking them to generate lateral forces and deaccele. forces. I'm not sure most ferraris are good at drifting-usually mid engined low polar moment of inertia cars move out into a skid quickly. | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 186 Registered: 2-2003 |
Yeah, I realized the clutch thing would be bad....guys I'm sorry I started this thread...I just meant it as a question.....But to re iterate...I'm not on an open road at all......My fathers friend is a pastor at a large church...about 3200 every sunday.....there is a HUGE, open parking lot, and of course it's completely empty about 5 days out of the week....a couple of days last week, we went out there, me in the F Car, him in a BMW and set up cones and an "obsticle course" and just experimented a little bit.....we weren't "hauling ass", doing doughnuts or anything like that....I've just never experience, an "oversteer" and I was trying to find out how to handle a situation should one unexpectedly arise..........that's it.....thanks for the advice, sorry to offend. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 141 Registered: 4-2003 |
Phillip, your question is how do I get my car to oversteer? First and foremost, all of your braking/shifting should take place before the enterance of the turn. Your goal is to set-up before you enter. The heel to toe technique matches the engine RPM to the lower gear (downshifting) as to not break the rear wheels loose under braking. Do not hit your clutch through the turn. Unless of course you are trying to cause oversteer, NEVER do that on the track if you are trying to pull a good lap time. If your car is set-up "nuetral: no push, no oversteer", than you will probably want increase your turn in speed (as 30 -40 MPH) seems awfully slow to cause oversteer. (unless your turning radius is so sharp that you are doing donuts, and then yes that would be childish, stupid, and dangerous. Pick a larger, open area, try a higher turn in speed, keep a moderate arc to your turn, if you want you can stab the throttle at the apex of the turn, but don't hit your clutch. That is foolish | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2002 |
Philip, The way you learn the limits of the car is not by charging into a turn at 40mph and swinging the back. What you should do is take the turn at 15mph. Then come back and do the same line at 20mph, and increase the speed 5mph every pass. Keep in mind you have to keep the same line. Also, every turn is different. Camber, turn radius, and type of pavement can make a tremendous difference. The best place to try this stuff is in a track. If you don't have money for track time, too bad. Wait, save some money and take it to the track. Last thing we need is more people seeing a red Ferrari hauling ass in public roads, and adding to the stigma of irresponsible sports car drivers. Cheers | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2003 |
Don, I am not trying to do this on a habitual basis, nor am I doing it on open roads......I was just trying to "familiarize" myself with the car and it's limits so that I can be a safer driver.......I've only had the car a few months and sometimes, I still don't feel like I know how she would react in an emergency or any given situation.......don't have access to a driving school, and probably couldn't afford it at this time......I'm not trying to do this to impress anyone, it's in private, on a closed "track" and I'm just learning the car............. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3816 Registered: 8-2002 |
Philip, can't speak of damage, but i can say this... Wait... Your car is rear wheel drive, right...? Ok, good... If you're making 90 degree turns, i don't now how much swing you'll get, but if the turn you're going into is more acute, get a little heel/toe action going and the ass of the car should be swinging like nobody's business... i can't heel/toe to save my life (i think it's because my pedals are too wide), but i do the next best thing; i slow down enough, so that i won't slide in the turn and cause some major problems... Then, while i'm in the turn, ready for gas, i blip the throttle to get some high revs, throw it in gear and off i go... If ihad rear wheel drive, the ass of my car would be very promiscuous (read: all over the place)... i'm not sure how well you'll fair without any clutch work, but who knows; the people here seem to know a lot of neat stuff... Let us know how you progress... | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4369 Registered: 8-2002 |
Take your car back to where you got it and give them the keys. You do not deserve it. It is not a ricer. What you are doing is dangerous, dumb, expensive and childish | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 184 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi guys, I've been experimenting with my car......really trying to get a feel for it, and one thing I'm having a hard time with is learning the limits of turning.....I've tried to get the back end to "swing" a bit....I'm not working the clutch at all....mainly going into a turn I've given her some gas and cut my wheel, trying to swing the back end around....done it a couple times......not often at all......any hints...is this bad to do...I'm usually around 30 - 40 mph....is this silly, possible damage....just wondering |