| Author | Message | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1250 Registered: 4-2002 |
Re: Mixing dino and synth - At one time, this was apparently a problem, maybe still is for some brands. But every can of modern synth that I've ever looked at says it's OK. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1249 Registered: 4-2002 |
Oh, BTW, the last time I had someone else change the oil, it was by my regular mechanic. He did it for free. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1248 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've tried the suction gizmo, and it seems to get as much out as the drain plug. After draining, I refill with 9 quarts, and it's at the same place on the dipstick as when I refill after draining via the drainplug. My only real concern is that perhaps some 'gunk' in the bottom of the engine doesn't drain out as well. So I alternate methods. But the suction method is much easier. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 148 Registered: 1-2003 |
Tony- In your case go ahead. Be sure to keep the connection of the two drain lines secure as it does make a mess when uncoupled!! | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2002 |
I would think it doesn't get all the oil out (though they say it does), but then how do I know the drain plug does better? The only thing I worry about with changing it myself is stripping a 30+ year old thread. I would think that frequent easy changing of the oil would be worth the possible downside. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 147 Registered: 1-2003 |
Tony: I use that system for my two boats and jet ski and it works great for Marine applications. I suspect that I can't get all the oil out, but when you change the oil every 50 hours it doesn't matter as much. In closing I would use the drain plugs for the best result. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2002 |
Has anyone used the suck out through dipstick method? I'm thinking about asking for one for father's day, and then I could change the oil every week. | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 794 Registered: 11-2001 |
Speaking of synthetic vs. mineral.... I have a whole case (or two) of Agip SINT 10W-40 sitting on the shelf. Was planning on using it for the 308 oil changes...BUT...my mechanic recommended (and uses) Castrol GTX for the 308 QV's. The plate in the car recommends Agip SINT 10W-50. Should I use the 10W-40, or stick with either the recommended 10W-50...or keep on using Castrol mineral? Would hate to see the Agip oil go to waste on the lawn mower.  | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 208 Registered: 4-2003 |
Brian good info. on the lubricating/anti-friction poperties of synthetic versus minerals. One point that is not to be taken lightly is that synthetic oils have a much lower tendency to gum up, and tend to leave all suround parts, cleaner. As you have probably experienced with your two-stroke shifter kart, if you have ever taken apart a top end/exhaust on any non-synthetic, you will find chunks of debris that looks as if has been brought back to its original fosil state. Before the days of synthetic oils, some people would add a quart of ATF(Cheys not F-Cars of course) to a badly gummed up engine (the ATF contains detergents) and run for a half hour before their oil change. Although the anti-friction properties maybe similar, dismantling an engine that used a synthetic oil would certainly yield a cleaner botom end, valve train, and oil gallies. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1418 Registered: 11-2002 |
Brian Great Post!!!!!! You highlighted all the major points and dispelled the urban myths and hype all in one post, good job. Regards, JRV | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 472 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have used Redline synthetic oil in every car I owned, including my current 308 - no probs! (last time I bought Redline over the counter at local motor cycle shop, the clerk asked "what have you got - some kind of Ferrari or something?") All oils are mixable, there was an article some time back in a tech magazine detailing how one could mix several types of oils based on their individual properties and come up with a near perfect blend...if I add dinosauer juice to synthetic, I use Kendall GT-1. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1180 Registered: 3-2002 |
brian, thx for that info. one more question; is there an issue with mixing mineral and synthetic? for example, if you realize you are down a little, and can't recall what oil they put in at the last oil change, does it matter if you put a quart of synthetic on top of a quart of minderal (if thats indeed what they put in at the dealership?). | ||
| Brian Willis (Lmpdesigner)
New member Username: Lmpdesigner Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2002 |
To all: Don't worry too much about all the hype over Shell Helix. It is a standard synthetic oil. (Long chain aliphatic olefin polymer) like Mobil One, Castrol Syntec, etc. Any good synthetic oil will work in any new Ferrari. (Actually any good mineral oil will work in any new Ferrari just as well.) The advantage of the synthetics are better pour points (They flow better at low temp, -44 F. vs -27 F.) and have a higher flash point (482 F. vs. 430 F.) but I don't now anybody who runs their Ferrari at those extremes so the advantages are somewhat academic. Synthetics also have better shear capacity (2500-3000 PSI) versus mineral oils (500-1800 PSI) so they are better under heavy load or when there is a lack of adequate oil flow. Synthetics also have better viscosity control and less viscosity breakdown. But---If you change the oil at short intervals and keep away from extremely hard, continuous running then a mineral based oil will work just as well as is needed. Remember this, our highly stressed Ferrari Motors are about as stressed as a WWII Merlin V-12 in a Mustang P51--and those planes ran on mineral oil--they just changed it often. In fact synthetic oils were initially made for aircraft gas turbine engines. For everyone with a Ferrari out there--buy a good synthetic oil. (I like Mobil One and most of the race cars I have been involved with use it) but change the oil resonably often. 2500 Miles is a good number. Synthetics will last a lot longer but this is cheap insurance. Remember--even putting in Castrol GTX and changing it out would be better than using Shell Helix and not changing it . For pre 1980 cars you may run into some oil seepage if you swap to synthetic oils but I have never run into this problem myself. I think most people worry about this too much. Jsur use any good oil and change it as required. Your car will be fine. One final point about Ferrari voiding your warranty if you don't use Shell Helix. This begs the question---How could they ever find out if you didn't tell them. Sounds like F.O.A. scare tactics to me. Tell them to F.O. | ||
| Gary Reed (Gary_reed)
Junior Member Username: Gary_reed Post Number: 66 Registered: 2-2002 |
I change my own oil in my '83 308 QV. A Baldwin filter is about $9.00 and 9-quarts of Castrol GTX 20-50 run about $17.00 (or,even less when it's on sale). So the total cost is $26.00 or less. I change the oil/filter ever 2,500-3,000 miles. My Ferrari mechanic does -NOT- recommend using synthetic oils in 308's. | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2002 |
Same as with Matt L, the manager does it and I do watch. They're very careful and have never had a problem except with one of the old UFI "bad o-ring" filters, which wasn't their fault. | ||
| Carl Rose (Carl_rose)
Junior Member Username: Carl_rose Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi everyone, This is such a topical post. Changed my 328 yesterday - using AGIP factory stuff & UFI filter - for about $70. Far less if using Castrol. Have prepared another "how-to" article (pictures & text) if you'd like a copy email me at: [email protected] Will finalize & get to Rob later this week for permanent posting. Carl | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 192 Registered: 4-2003 |
That is a good point. You don't want the 17 year old flunkee with a hang over doing it. The older more experienced tech should be OK if you watch him. The old used oil is the worst part of the job for sure. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4453 Registered: 8-2002 |
P Thomas, I used them from time to time, I just made sure that I showed one guy what to do and how do it. Once I was o.k. with him then I would only go when he was there. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 191 Registered: 4-2003 |
Those $7.00 per hour monkeys at some of the "Oil Changers" have striped my drain plug, under or over tightened my filter, and a ton of other really stupid stuff. I personally do not trust them to come anywhere near my f-car. They can do my Ram2500 and my wife's Expedition, but hands off the f-car. Just my opinion. | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2002 |
If you change your oil every 2,500-3,000 miles, you don't really get the extra benefit from synthetic oils anyway. A good dino oil (I use Valvoline Racing or Castrol GTX) does just fine, and is cheaper even with the more frequent changes. I just take the 308QV down to the local Jiffy Lube or Express Oil Change, but I bring my own oil and filter. Beats crawling under the car! Or if I just want a quick change, I may do it myself with a vacuum pump out through the dipstick tube (LiquidVac). | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 381 Registered: 9-2002 |
Shell as far as I know does not make the 5w-40 engine oil anymore. The F-dealer here in Canada told me to use 5w-50 in the newer Ferrari's. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1754 Registered: 7-2001 |
Norwoods does mine for about $100. No synthetic oil though. I don't want it, they don't recommend it. I buy oil filters locally for about $8. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 187 Registered: 4-2003 |
Did Dave ever share his info. on where to get the Shell oil?? Or is this hear say??? | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 398 Registered: 4-2002 |
David (and all), >>> I was told without using the Helix it would void the factory warranty.<<< Not sure if this is legal and also could be argued on top of this FNA's protective measures concerning acquiring the oil at appropriate rates/prices. Am surprised with all the crying going on here here a simple threat of class action lawsuit does not ensue. Then again my 308GTS QV enjoys Amsoil 20-50 synth racing oil and that is not cheap, yet not at Helix pricing(!)... and is probably better than Helix anyway :-) Wake up guys, YOU are ALLOWING yourself this type of ABUSE by FNA. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Peter Pütz (Pp_berlin)
New member Username: Pp_berlin Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2003 |
Selenia Racing 10W60 13 Euro/litre Nothing other !! Peter | ||
| Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member Username: Chaysintexas Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hmmm. My most recent oil change for my 308 was under 35 bucks, including the filter that I supplied. They even vacuumed the car out and wiped the windshield. $300? Yes, that's lunacy, but then again, many exotic car owners have more money than good sen$e, so I guess it all comes out in the wash. When you see those exotics for sale that say things like "Have $32,117 in maintenance and repair receipts", you now know how they got there - likely by paying 6-7-8 times the going rate for everything from a quart of oil to a winshield wiper blade. | ||
| Richard T. (Tom) Gripe, MD. (Gripet)
New member Username: Gripet Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2002 |
$900 for 1500 mile oil change $3800 for 15000 mile tune up | ||
| Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Member Username: Gagatep Post Number: 312 Registered: 8-2002 |
Local L.A. mechanic charged me $150 total for a 348 $30 for Ferrari filter $7.50 per quart Mobil 1 | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 142 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm going for Mobile 1 after the warranty period is over. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3521 Registered: 9-2001 |
sometimes kmart has it on sale too | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1039 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mobil 1 5W 40 at K-Mart? whaddayaknow! anybody know any reason why we should give a rat's ass Shell synthetic -vs- Mobil synthetic for cars already out of warranty? i can't imagine a rational argument for one over the other.... doody. | ||
| Crusing (Crusing)
Junior Member Username: Crusing Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2002 |
Used Shell 10-40w non-syn. That is what FOS had been using. Is the Helix just for new F-cars? | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 263 Registered: 11-2002 |
Shelton - $16.99 per liter | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 262 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes David, but how much..$20 /qt????? I'll check what Shelton sells it for just for the heck of it. Mr. Doody - my 355 calls for 5-30 and also hard to find...but found Mobile 1 5-30 and 5-40 at, are you ready...K Mart! | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 140 Registered: 1-2003 |
Mr Doody: Shelton Ferrari has the oil by the Litre 12 to a case. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 139 Registered: 1-2003 |
The only place I was able to find the Shell Ultra Helix was thru a Ferrari dealership. We buy all my company gas at one Shell dealership and the owner was not able to get me the Helix. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1038 Registered: 11-2001 |
any info on oil source MUCH APPRECIATED. the 355 and 550 are spec'd for: Helix Ultra SAE 5W 40 API/SH-CD but i can't find anybody that makes or sells 5W-40, never mind synthetic -vs- non or shell -vs- others. i've even taken to asking at shell stations, and they of course look at me like i have two heads . doody. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 138 Registered: 1-2003 |
10 litres Shell Ultra Helix @$18/L, $30 Filter and mechanics time for my 360. I was told without using the Helix it would void the factory warranty. Mobile 1 for my ZO6! | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2002 |
I too would like to know where outside of F Dealers one can get Shell... Matt - you for got one things: $15 for filter $50 for oil(based on $4.30 per quart for Mobil 1) ------------ $65 dollars per change The satisfaction of doing it yourself - priceless | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yeah, but if someone wanted the alusive Shell, where?? | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 206 Registered: 2-2003 |
FYI....Target has the Mobil 1 Synthetic 15W50 on sale very often for 2.50 a quart!! Pretty good deal.............. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 182 Registered: 4-2003 |
Where?? If that is true, nobody knows where it is readily available. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1426 Registered: 1-2002 |
The Shell Helix stuff has recently undergone a DRASTIC reduction in price, now that FNA is not the only US distributor any more... Nothing like competition to improve the breed! It is now about ~~4.50-6.00 a quart, I believe. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 181 Registered: 4-2003 |
The "official" oil to use is a Shell product. That stuff goes for $25 per quart. Many others on this board are not using the Shell oil. Just a good synthetic. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4430 Registered: 8-2002 |
$40 for jackstand (4) one time purchase $50 for floorjack (1) one time purchase $12 for 12MM allan key (for block drain) _____ $102 one time $15 for filter $50 for oil(based on $4.30 per quart for Mobil 1) ------------ $65 dollars per change | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1159 Registered: 3-2002 |
yes, buts that what it will run you.....welcome to fworld, where oil and filters magically cost more..... | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1458 Registered: 2-2001 |
My dealer charged me $550 for my first oil change. Never took it back again, have done it myself since. About $100 for DIY. Ernesto | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 136 Registered: 3-2002 |
assuming you do not want to do it yourself, how much should an oil/filter change be on a v8 fcar. is $300 total lunacy? |