| Author | Message | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2003 |
ML, I do not think that anyone was insinuating that you made these problems up. I think that people that have owned MANY P cars including myslf are sharing that their experience and exposure to other P car owners was radically different then yours. That's all. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2002 |
James I was looking at a 91 C4(awd)911 coupe a couple of weeks ago. I choose a diffrent car over it but the dealer called me this weekend and the car is still for sale. I didn't get to the point of having a p.p.i. done but did get a good look at the car and it appeared very straight. It is a one owner with all records etc. 53k miles and the dealer just did the 60k service. If you are interested call 1-800-9luxury and ask for Paul Havens. I am not affiliated in any way. As with any used car you look at make sure you have a P.P.I. done. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 535 Registered: 11-2001 |
You know, I did not make up those problems with the 911 I owned. I drove it 115,000 miles over 9 years and took very good care of it, but the problems did come up. May be it was a lemon, who knows, it was yellow. And as for whether the 3.2L carrera will ever hit $12K, well ... I sold mine for $12K. Let the market rule! I bet I can get a 87-89 for $12K in 10 years. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 206 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nick, I agree. Valve guides at 25K?? I think not. Valve seats MAYBE if you neglected the valve adjustments. SC timing chains skipping, yes that hapeened. The all inherant "seeping motors" no major leaks though, yeah that happened. Valve guides, tranny problems. No way. I used a 1983 and a 1978 as my primary car and could not kill the thing. I used to call it a Volkswagon on steriods, it would break! | ||
| nickm........ (Nickm)
Junior Member Username: Nickm Post Number: 230 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have had MANY 911's (dozens of them) and have never had any troubles with the 915 trans. I have known several people who did a chevy 350 conversion. They had problems making everything work properly but NEVER problems with the trans. Those Chevy engines put out alot of HP. Ive also never heard of bad headstuds in the SC model 911's. Also, valve guides only last 25K miles???? Hmmm. Sounds like you may have bought a car that was seriously abused. From my 911 experience, those cars are almost indestructable. | ||
| dave wilson (Dlwilson)
New member Username: Dlwilson Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2003 |
I find these recent 911 postings interesting after reading the forums on rennlist and pelican parts for the past several years prior to buying my '77 911s with the 2.7 (owned for 2 years and runs great no problems except oil leaks) Many hardcore porschephiles admitted to secretly wanting a 308/328 but didn't have the money or were afraid of unreliability. I am still looking to buy a reasonable price/ condition early 308gtb low to mid 20k, please let me know of any! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2003 |
I agree with Terry. The stud problem with the barels pulling away from the case was an "S" problem pre '78. The '78 to '83 SCs were pretty dang reliable after the Carerra tensioner upgrade was done to the car $400-$500. The G-50 Trans sure shifted smoothly and I know people that banged gears all day everyday and never had a problem, the motors were rated at 230Hp??? So I guess that would be part of it. The 3.2 Carrera motor was a Turbo engine, without the turbo (I heard that part and now I am guessing). Anyone? | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 484 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mitchell.... The '84 Carrera was the first year for the 3.2 and they did have some issues with valve guides. However most of those vintage cars have had the guides replaced with the updated parts and should have no further issues. Your rear main seal issue and perhaps even some of the transmission issues could be because it was a cab. The Cab chassis flexes much more and placed more stress on the engine/transaxle. The 915 transmission is usually pretty dang tough. I know guys racing their 911's with over 350hp running the 915 and going many seasons between rebuilds. They are by no means a really smooth shifting box... but they dont have a reputation for poor reliability. The G50 is tons better though. Also, my 911 has the older magnesium cased 901 transmission with the dog-leg first gear and I love it. The rod bolts on the 3.2 are not really that weak. Dont rev it to 8000rpm.... but I revved my '88 to 7K all the time and never had any issue. Head studs can stretch, but again its not that common and once replaced with the updated parts you never worry again. A 3.2 Carrera depreciate another $10K. Never happen. that would make them $12K cars. You may be able to get a 250K miles never rebuilt, worn out car for that but the nice and well maintained '87-'89 cars will stay in the $20K - $23K range. They have a big following and are the last of the true "classic" 911's. It sounds like you had a bad experience. I have heard the '84 cars were somewhat weak with all the new changes for that year. I also agree that hte A/C prior to '86 is a complete joke. Still, the '88 to '89 Carreras are fantastic cars. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2003 |
P-Cars=Dime a dozen. They are like a..holes (and opinions) EVERY HAS ONE. I am done with P-Cars for a while. Great daily drivers but too common for my taste. | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member Username: Ironjoe Post Number: 160 Registered: 12-2001 |
Itialians Design.... Germans Engineer... Need I SAY MORE... JUST LOOK AT THE 308'S BRAKES, FROM AN ENTRY LEVEL PORSCHE 914...wHAT WERE THEY THINKING....I STILL LOVE 911'S N 930'S ....... | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 470 Registered: 2-2001 |
I had a '69 911E that was built with 'S' package, and when I restored it I updated suspension to 'S' spec and built an S motor; and updated tensioners (try buying an 'updated' fuse block/belt sys/window regulator for you 308 from Ferrari!-all of which is available from/for Porsches). Absolute bullet proof car! Stay away from 74-80 SC series, bad case studs. I would buy another 911 in a heartbeat, not so sure about another Ferrari though. Ferrari has the beauty and the mystic, Porsche the quality and customer service. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 302 Registered: 9-2002 |
I was planning on getting one once, and everything I read said to get 87 - 89 they were by far the best Porsche to that date. Happy hunting, Guards red with tan int. OH YA!!! | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 534 Registered: 11-2001 |
OK I agree that the Porsche is a nice, exciting, and well designed sports car. Here is another take with my experience. I owned a 84 Carrera (3.2L) cabriolet for 10 years. Oil changes cost nothing, I do my own. Stretched head studs replaced, $1500 material and machine shop services Tranmission rebuilt 3 times, finally replaced. The 915 tranny is very very very fragile with all that power. Rod bolts are notorious for breaking if you overrev, so I never did. Rear main seal leak once every 25K miles Cab top leaks, and cannot be sealed. AC is a total absolute joke, so I roll down the window and avoid 90+ days. Valve guides only last 25K miles, and then they make valve noises And if you ever rebuild that engine, it costs as much as a Ferrari to do right. $5K if you do your own. I was driving the heck out of that car, putting on 25K miles a year until I figured that it just could not take that kind of use, so I bought a BMW for everyday use. That Porsche is now gone. I hear the 88-89 Carrera are much better, but ... the comment about them being fully depreciated is a little ... optimistic. They still have another $10k to go, I think. | ||
| James Adams (Madmaxx)
Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks for the info guys! i'll lurk around that site and gather info. She is really interested in a coupe rather than a drop top. The only convertable she likes is a 56 T-bird  James | ||
| David C. (Worth_it)
Junior Member Username: Worth_it Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have had at least 1 1984 - 89 P-car in my garage for the last 14 years - I agree with most of the previous comments. The Carrera style was mechanically a superior car to the SC ( up to 83 ) Cosmetically the cars were similar but 84 up received the Bosch Motronic system and other improvements. There is a big difference between the SC and Carrera below the skin - As for maintenance - here is a list of records on my 84 Cabriolet - since 1990 - Oil Changes � 47,49,57,61,66,70,72,77,81,86,89,92 Valves adjustments � 47,57,68,79,92 Clutch � 66 Air Filter � 66,87 K& N Filter Installed Fuel Filter 66, 92 Brake Pads � front 89 Rear 89 AC Charged � 47,86, 89 Converted to R134 Spark Plugs � 66,92 Alternator � 72,89 New Belts � 72,89 Front Bearings � 49 New Tires Front � 76 Rear 53,63,76,87 Alignment � 47,68,76 Lid struts � 47 Short Shift � 48 Repair Oil Pressure gauge wire � 57 Replace Oil pressure switch �66 Updated PCV System � 66 Replaced A/C fan switch and console � 77 Replaced Oil Return Hoses � 87 As Terry and P.Thomas said - these cars keep on going, just do the routine stuff. Not as much attention needed as an F-car. Parts are plentiful but not as cheap as a Ford. Odds are you will not need many. Forgive me for this - but My 348 Spider is now my toy of choice and the 911 Cabriolet above is for sale if anyone is interested. Photos can be seen at http://www.sportauto.cc/C099kpor84prp/index.htm -they are helping me market the car ( for a fee if "they" sell it ) I would love to know that another "car person" will enjoy her in the future. Sorry if this is rude to mention. Overall they are great - but they are NOT the same as a F-Car. | ||
| David C. (Worth_it)
Junior Member Username: Worth_it Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2002 |
Madmaxx, You've got mail - | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 189 Registered: 4-2003 |
Terry good summurization. Not to be too anal, but the required valve adjustment is due to the fact that those era P cars ran a tight vavle clearance (.004). Exhaust valves seat with time. Therefore a neglected valve adjustment would ultimately lead to an exhaust VALVE SEAT (not guide) premature wear. ie you would "burn" a valve. Sorry, just wanted to clarify. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 483 Registered: 4-2002 |
The best 911 in the range your talking about would be an '88 or '89 3.2 Carrera. They have 231hp, are among the best built, most solid cars on the planet and they drive great. These cars have the G50 gearbox and hydraulic clutch which are much nicer than the earlier cars. They also have an A/C system that works great.... prior to 1986 A/C is a joke. The 3.2 Carrera body, engine and all the details was the culmination of 15 years worth of evolution and refinement. By '88 and '89 Porsche had those cars PERFECT. I drove an '88 Carrera as my daily driver for 3 years. It had 88K when I bought it and 135K when I sold it. The car ran and drove like a brand new vehicle when sold, despite much hard driving including MANY days at the track. No squeeks, rattles or mechanical issues. Other than normal maintenance I had no mechanical expenses. The build quality on those cars is pretty much the best you will find on any car. Period. Your ears will pop when sitting inside the car and closing a door... Every little detailed is put together like a swiss watch. The engines are good for 200K+ if maintained. Evaluate a car based on maintenance records and receipts for work rather than just miles. 911's are famous for going really high miles and still being very tight, fast cars. Just make sure you dont get one that has been abused and not maintained. An example is they need valve adjustments every 15K miles. This costs about $500. If skipped for too long, it can lead to valve guide wear... Parts cost is very reasonable. The cars are not hard to work on. There is a great online P-car community (Pelican parts... Rennlist... etc) and the PCA is a great group! Figured out that Im a 911 nut yet???? I have a '69 911S with 2.7RS engine. Its a totally different animal from the '80s 911s. Search around and find a good '88 or '89. A top quality car should go for around $23K. They have been going for that price for over 10 years.... its fully depreciated. Given the low maintenance costs, the overall cost to own and drive one is minimal! | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2002 |
Is she at least over 17?? :-) Luke. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 190 Registered: 12-2002 |
Is she at leats over 17?? :-) Luke. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 267 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh my Gawd.... I know someone will chime in OT - anyway, have and had many - mostly turbo's. By in large, newer is better. SC up to 83 is OK if it had Carrera chain tensioners upgrade Carrera replaced it in 84. SC is good reliable motor, has nice flairs on the rear and is affordable - as all P cars in that era, the AC sucks..even after adding extra condensors... Otherwise can't think of much more to add outside of the turbo models... | ||
| Nick Berry (Nickb)
Junior Member Username: Nickb Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2002 |
Your better off asking the question on one of these forums. http://www.rennlist.org/ | ||
| Richard T. (Tom) Gripe, MD. (Gripet)
New member Username: Gripet Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2002 |
Go to Rennlist.com You'll find all the necessary info there. Good luck | ||
| James Adams (Madmaxx)
Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2002 |
Figured some of you guys might also venture into P-car world. My wife likes the older body style 911. The ones from the mid 80's mostly. Right now she drives a jeep, but I was thinking about getting her an older 911 for her birthday. Any caveats to be aware of? Maintanence a pain on the older cars? I'm not looking for a turbo of anything high end, as I really don't want to turn her loose in anything very powerful. Parts expensive still? Thanks James |