| Author | Message | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Junior Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 122 Registered: 3-2003 |
Ummm, did you read the first reply to the original post? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3610 Registered: 9-2001 |
I can't beleive it has takin 44 posts to answer the question of where FOSF is??? I am throwing the OT flag - wheres the sirens  | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1064 Registered: 11-2001 |
martin "low four figures" will probably not fly. they can take it from you for free. in fact, if you end up in court and lose (wildly likely) you may end up paying their attorneys' fees and other damages if you're not careful. you probably want to consult your lawyers before you do anything rash here - lest you find yourself walking funny. doody. | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2001 |
Martin Remember, YOU may not see the situation as blackmail or squatting it's how the CUSTOMER sees it. Your intent is to prosper from this or you wouldn't have said, "I believe over a period of time the name will pay for itself." What you are doing is not viewed favorably by the general public. It may be clever to send people to your website but it's not good for business. A lot of this misdirection is used by the Porn industry. For example, there was a site HBOforkids. A porn company setup a site HBO4kids. You can imagine how many parents were upset. Now of course your site is not a porn site but your misdirection could be perceived as underhanded. I'm not passing judgement. This is your business and you will run it your way. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3953 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mr. Doody, i'm trying, it's just not so easy, sometimes... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1063 Registered: 11-2001 |
DES DES DES.... when WILL you learn? doody. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1062 Registered: 11-2001 |
I bought my '77 Euro 308 from them. The picture of my car (on my bio) is between their two buildings, an extremely nice setting for a car dealer. in 2000 i almost bought a condo in the complex visible beyond your car in your profile pic! if you can deal with the fog, marin county is superbly wonderful. doody. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3952 Registered: 8-2002 |
See, now i figured it would be in San Francisco... Go figure... | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2003 |
What's going to happen is somebody is going to type in FerrariofSanFrancisco and get Miami. They will then go to FoSF physically and just happen to mention what happened with their web experience. After this happens a couple of times and they feel they have lost a customer or two they will come after you. Either that or they will just simply blow you off as insignificant and pose no threat to their goals and leave you alone. I think you are risking the chance of alienating yourself by generating ill-will between yourself and other dealers. What you are doing seems a bit underhanded and deceitful. Like someone said earlier, you may not be a dealer I'd want to work with. Just my 0.02. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4586 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, thanks guys. Great to see how much response you can get on such a topic. I will call Brad today. As I said I think they should own their name. Just my 2c. As for legal terms the legal ideas expressed here are interesting. I find in favor of a law that protects businesses from unethical use of such a name. Since I am established in the business and since I am not implying to be SoSF on my website trying to defraud or create false impression, but you clearly see "Welcome to Cavallino Motors in Miami" these would not apply. I do not see this as blackmailing or squatting. I did not register the name JUST to offer it to FoSF. I see it as a marketing tool and just feel that FoSF should own it. They will get a fair offer today to buy the name if they are not interested I will keep on using it. No harm done. I believe over a period of time the name will pay for itself. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2003 |
No clue on that... I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I just remember reading something about cybersquatting being somehow illegal so I went looking on the net and found that. After reading some of the document it looks like there are several loop holes and ways around the law. | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 403 Registered: 1-2003 |
Craig...For Martin to 'cover his butt', can he not simply draft a quick website under that domain just to post his pleasure in dealing with Ferrari of SF? To me, that would seem to fill a 'use' requirement. Would I be correct? | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2003 |
These two paragraphs seem applicable: (V) the person's intent to divert consumers from the mark owner's online location to a site accessible under the domain name that could harm the goodwill represented by the mark, either for commercial gain or with the intent to tarnish or disparage the mark, by creating a likelihood of confusion as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of the site; (VI) the person's offer to transfer, sell, or otherwise assign the domain name to the mark owner or any third party for financial gain without having used, or having an intent to use, the domain name in the bona fide offering of any goods or services, or the person's prior conduct indicating a pattern of such conduct; | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2003 |
Just for the record: The U.S. law, formally known as the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act, gives established businesses a legal remedy against fly-by-night operators that register the established entities' likely domain names with the intent of selling those names to the expected owners for exorbitant fees. You'd have to read the entire Act to determine what is meant "established businesses", "established entities" and "exorbitant fees". http://www.gigalaw.com/library/anticybersquattingact-1999-11-29-p1.html | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 400 Registered: 1-2003 |
I bought my '77 Euro 308 from them. The picture of my car (on my bio) is between their two buildings, an extremely nice setting for a car dealer.Check it out! Brad, the GM is an extremely polished guy and a very fair man to work with. | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 399 Registered: 1-2003 |
I bought my '77 Euro 308 from them. The picture of my car is on my bio is between their two buildings, and extremely nice setting for a car dealer.Check it out! Brad, the GM is an extremely polished guy and a very fair man to work with. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2003 |
Squatting is not worth the effort. If FerrariOfSanFrancisco is taken (which I wouldn't want anyway because it is too much to type) I would try FerrariOfSanFran and if that was taken I would try FerrariOfSF. It is too easy to find alternatives. This happened to Champion Apparel (a company where I used to work). Champion.com was taken so they just took ChampionUSA.com. Problem solved. I think squatting is unethical and goes against the free spirit of the Internet. I commend you on your capitalistic idea but your execution leaves something to be desired. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4584 Registered: 5-2001 |
that is just plain wrong according to my ethics. | ||
| Nick (True)
New member Username: True Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2002 |
Martin, I'm not a lawyer, but if Cavallino is trademarked by you, then yeah, you should be able to get it. If you have trademark infringement on them, disputing the name with WIPO would be the first step. Anyone who does names for a living usually just gives the name up with they recieve the WIPO papers.... | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4583 Registered: 5-2001 |
So Nick, I can sue the guy that owns cavallinomotors.com? Just take it away from him and be done with it. Great country we live in. Tillman, thanks, that used to be a dealership in CA. I guess they took the same faith as most exotic car dealerships. I have not checked with them for a while. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 619 Registered: 11-2001 |
"I know I would pay good money for Cavallinomotors.com " FYI: The domain does appear to be for sale. (usual disclaimers -- I don't have any interests, etc) | ||
| Nick (True)
New member Username: True Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2002 |
Being in the Domain industry (I work at an ICANN accredited registrar), I see this on a daily basis. IF Ferrari of San Francisco wants the name, they just have to sue you to get it. Assuming Ferrari is a trademarked name, you wouldn't win, and if they wanted to hit you for damages, they would get that as well. These are all pretty much internet laws and 99% of the time nothing ever happens. We have some large clients that register expired names...after going through a couple of these, any trademark names are simply deleted/turned-over now cause they know they can't win. So to echo everyone else's comments..if they wanted it before, they could have had it. If they want it now, they still could have it. Emailing them with trades is looked at as blackmail..not a good idea! As I said above..99% of the time nothing happens (as im sure it will here), but if you ask someone who has been sued over a trademark domain they will tell you its not worth it. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4577 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry Teak, did not read your post properly. Old eyes | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4576 Registered: 5-2001 |
JD, this may have been taken a little out of context. My opinion would be if I typoed that in and found a dealer in Miami owned the name, that FoSF would look dumb for not having picked up their name in the first place. I don't think they are dumb. Actually I found the name by coincidence since the name had expired along with Ferrari of Los Gatos.com but there e know why. Somebody else had picked that up already before I could. Same reason here. I think ther ewill be people just plugging that in and it can give you advertising. I realize though that they no longer exist. Art, I will call them tomorrow if I do not get an e-mail response. Don't know who had the name before I picked it up. Maybe somebody had it registered provate before and was trying to sell it to them for a Gazillion Dollars. FerrariofMiami is privately owned by somebody in OH. In all I really would like them to have their own name as the web address and since I would be happy to trade for a few parts they will get it really cheap. No Million Dollar thing here. No 6 or 5 figures. low 4 will do and that in parts. How fair can you be. I know I would pay good money for Cavallinomotors.com Martin | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 170 Registered: 2-2001 |
Martin I can understand both sides of this situation. You are a businessman and saw an opportunity and acted upon it. Nothing wrong with that. But what bothers me is that I see a "different side" of Martin that I didn't see in your previous thousands of posts. Your comments like "...rather steal your clients!", "what a bunch of dumb a*sses not taking their dealer name", "...So guys you might now want to mention my name there anytime soon." are somewhat disappointing from a sponsor on FerrariChat. You are obviously proud of what you done. This Thread does not show your "good side" Just my .02 | ||
| Noelrp (Noelrp)
Junior Member Username: Noelrp Post Number: 243 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have a feeling that FofSF has already looked at it and decided not to pursue the domain name (they are in Silicon Valley so I'm sure their savvy clients have brought it up countless times). All I can say to Martin is *Good Luck* with whatever you do with it. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 407 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin, take it easy. Don't be so quick on the defensive here. I said that IF you would use their name to take business away from them. Also mentioned that that DOES NOT sound like what you're trying to do. I'm trying to point out things that can get you in ugly circumstances. If you don't want to hear them then I don't see the point of the thread. If you do care to hear them... There have been countless squatters, especially in the CA Bay Area. Many have been sued and almost all have lost. Gone are the days that Disney would pay millions of dollars for Disney.com. Nowadays, if you did have Disney.com and you used it to sell Mickey plush toys, they would sue you and take the name away from you and any profits you made. And you'd get stuck with attorney costs because they would win. I'm just saying...Be very careful on how you deal with this situation. This is a factory owned store and therefore have very deep pockets. Personally, I think it's a nice gesture in your part to offer the name since you ran across it. But I'm with Faisal on this one. I'd be very surprised if they offer anything at all for it. Especially since they have had a number of years to pick it up. Cheers | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Junior Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 116 Registered: 3-2003 |
Looks like you have it all figured out. Good luck. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1574 Registered: 6-2001 |
Martin: Why don't you just call them? It would make it a lot simpler, to ask them if they want the site. By the way, their aren't 20 miles North of SF, its only 10. Check your odometers guys. 20 puts you past San Rafael from SF. Art Art | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4571 Registered: 5-2001 |
Faisal, see if I type that in and get to a deale rin Miami I would think "what a bunch of dumb a*sses not taking their dealer name" Since you will see CA inventory in my Consignment list you may be buying closer to your house than by driving up to their dealership. I have a 95-355 in LA, a 308 in San Fran and another 97-355 in LA. Since MAtt may be selling his 308 I know of another one in the LA area. What I am saying is they are right there. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4570 Registered: 5-2001 |
As for legal issues I invite them to sue me. Since I am not advertising with it and offer it for sale to them where should be the basis. I would gladly have the domian name appraised and sell it at appraised value to them although I am confident that my offer is better than what i believe the name will come out to be as an appraisal. The same logic could then apply to all those companies that have national flower services and advertise at local flower shops etc. My www.4Ferrari.com could then fall under that criteria. I would be happy to have that worked out in court. In fact I would countersue for attorney costs. | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Junior Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2003 |
Plus, you're right on the other side of the country. If I typed in San Francisco as part of the URL and got someone in Miami, I would think they're pretty sneaky...not the kind of person I want to buy a high-end car from. | ||
| GThomas (Ferrariartist)
Junior Member Username: Ferrariartist Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2003 |
just my 2cents on the subject: if they wanted it they would have it by now... my guess is is that Maranello kicked ferrari of north america off of ferrari.com a couple of years back and decided that ferrarina.com would do for both FNA and Ferrari of San Fran. as well... since their inventory shows up in 'marketplace' and their address and contact numbers in 'dealers' as i say just my hunch... not that i have an inside track at the factory... no pun intended... GT | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin, First of all, what you are doing is very common. It's called squatting. If you use that domain name to take business away from them (which doesn't sound like what you're trying to do), there will be legal action against you. Next, your average Ferrari buyer will do his due dilligence in car research before jumping into a new purchase. If you call FoSF they will ask you to visit FerrariNA.com if you request a web site. Also a lot of their clientelle is through referrals and repeat customers. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4568 Registered: 5-2001 |
They don't have to offer me anything. I don't mind having the name at all. I just feel that they should own it and use it, common sense. I am not asking for a new 360 Spider in exchange. A used one will do (just kidding) | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4567 Registered: 5-2001 |
Faisal, I think it will be more than you think. First it is bad advertising if you do not have your dealership name as a webname. I would love to have mine but it is taken. So I usually advertise with www.4Ferrari.com and that goes with my telephone number in all ads. How easy is it? Take 800 numbers. One of my 800s for my real estate biz is: 888-ICT-LAND (ICT being my main corp. I get 2 calls at least daily for 1-888 HAT LAND (same number), except they have a different 888 number. While you may type that in and find you ended up on a different website, you will likely check it out as well since it is related. And I can assure you you get different prices with me than FoSF. So even if that customer then ends up finding FoSF they are informed about other dealers, making it much more dificult to sell to that client. Anyhow, it costs me $15 a year and them possibly thousands! As far at the $50 offer...thanks but no thanks, rather steal your clients! | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 404 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin, They are a factory store. They really won't care if they have ferrariofsanfrancisco or not. I doubt they'll even offer you what Faisal's proposing. Cheers | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Junior Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2003 |
How many sales have they lost from not having this domain name? And how many do you think you are going to deprive them of--even if your website points to a different dealership. I doubt many people buy cars based on where the web takes them...? I would offer you 50 bucks if I received your email. Once. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4566 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am not sure if these guys are going to be too happy with me. I sent them an e-mail offering them to sell the webdomain to them. Offered them parts in exchange. So guys you might now want to mention my name there anytime soon. I don't get it, how can they NOT make sure to have that name. If someone in SFO is looking for a Ferrari they may just type that in there and BANG they end on my site. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 403 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin, Try to find them through www.ferrarina.com instead of www.ferrari.com. Go to the dealers tab and select california. You'll find Ferrari of San Francisco. You'll also find that Bentley of Silicon Valley is mistakenly still listed as Ferrari of Los Gatos. Cheers | ||
| Paul Bianco (Paulie_b)
Junior Member Username: Paulie_b Post Number: 98 Registered: 1-2003 |
Martin wants to know if you have any pictures of the young lady. Das goode! | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Junior Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 110 Registered: 3-2003 |
Martin, they are in Mill Valley. 20 Minutes north of San Francisco, after you cross the Golden Gate Bridge. They have lots of cool cars. And hanging above one of their doors is a scale model of an F1 car that was used for wind-tunnel testing. They have some nice cars and luggage and other accessories upstairs. The offices have nice scale models and posters too. They have an Ethiopian girl working there who grew up in England and spent time in Italy...she speaks English/Italian/Swahili--all with a lovely trilling accent! It's a nice place to visit. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin - They are the only remaining factory owned dealership in the US.. I got my car from them...how can you forget my cool lic plate frame? (lol) Brad is the GM, if you call tell him I said hello, he's a former Miami guy... RE: FNA Web - They are listed on it, don't know why you did not see it... Got your phone call - check your PM for info. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1569 Registered: 6-2001 |
Martin: They are on 101, about 10 miles North of San Francisco, on the frontage road, west side. The guy you may want to talk to is Brad Goldstone, 415-380-3900. Art | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4564 Registered: 5-2001 |
That is interesting. If you pull up dealers on the Ferrari owners site you do not find SofSF. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ferrari of San Francisco is ... in Marin county, 20 minutes north of the golden gate bridge. They are there, owned by the factory, full of great cars. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4563 Registered: 5-2001 |
do they still exist? I just bought the webname: www.ferrariofsanfrancisco.com just wondering. |