| Author |
Message |
KCCK (Kenneth)
Member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 343
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:45 am: | |
In HK the tax is more than 100% now.
The 360 willl probably cost more than $US300,000. |
robert biscan (Tn_ferrari_bob)
New member
Username: Tn_ferrari_bob
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:15 am: | |
I was on the list for a 360 at FOA with no deposit but put 10k with my order 6 wks. ago. When I was in Brazil you can get a 360 spyder just by saying yes and ordering it. No list. Hasn't been one there for quite some time. The dealer looked at me funny when I asked about it. The price is double due to taxes being 100% on an imported car. they want the cars built in brazil and the jobs that comes with that. I say the 360 will be last to be replaced and then the coupe will come first. |
KCCK (Kenneth)
Member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 341
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:55 am: | |
Good. I found the EDIT button. |
KCCK (Kenneth)
Member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 340
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:53 am: | |
Cancelled |
J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 178
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:43 am: | |
Martin
The production cuts are for 2003 and USA dealers. Of course 2003 is not over yet and we don't know the final producion numbers. Also, as we know, Ferrai of Italy can change their mind anytime and increase production.
All I know is what the dealer told me. The sad reality for the dealer is that he is receiving 1 spider in the next 7 months.
It would be nice if Sean Harris would comment on this Thread. But it's not expected. A dealer would have everything to lose and nothing to gain by commenting. |
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 4590
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
production cuts?
I read they had a slight increas ein production in their last fiscal year. Wasn't that in FORZA ?
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KCCK (Kenneth)
Member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 339
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:20 am: | |
Ferrari has to rapidly upgrade their models across the board, if it is going to keep up with the competition.
Lambos have a tradition of going "one-up" on Ferraris. Ferrari historically behaves as if it does not need to look at anybody else, because it sets its own standards.
It is always possible to put in a bigger and even more turbo-charged engine. So I suppose it is always possible to produce a faster and even more powerful car. It is perhaps also always possible to come up with a flashier and more outrageous style. If "one-up" should become the norm, this "armament race" will never end.
The trick, however, is in finding the right balance between a dream-racer and a practical transport, a compromise that would fetch enough share in the targetted market to give it sufficient critical mass. In this sense, even the Lambos do represent a compromise. It is perhaps less of a compromise than the Ferrari 360s. But it is still a compromise all the same.
At the other end of the spectrum, you have Bentley, Aston Martin, and now even Audi, joining the fray. These new entrants will be eating more at the market of 456s and 575s than the 360s.
The 456 costs so much more than a 360, that it keeps one forever wondering where does all the extra money go. Or whether Ferrari has decided to charge that much money, just for the sake of it.
The appeal of the 456 is that it is a 4-seater automatic and that it is elegantly yet modestly styled. To those people who wish to own a Ferrari but perhaps not the eye-catching attention that comes with it, this makes a welcome change from the mainstream or purist "Ferrari" image. It is a question of personal taste, or need. It is a case of horses for the courses.
The 575 duplicates more or less the same appeal of the 456, although it is faster, a 2 seater, and has the latest F1 transmission. Inevitably, therefore, it overlaps with the 456 market.
But the 575 is less expensive than the 456, so that makes it difficult for the 575 to be called the "flagship" of the regular line. The 456 is more expensive, but it is less modern, less powerful, and less of a performer. So that makes it equally difficult for the 456 to be called the "flagship", either.
The end result? The 575 hurts the 456 market without creating one for itself.
That leaves the 360 to be the "bread and butter" model for Ferrari. But look at the growing competition. These days, anything less than 500 bhp does sure appear to be fast getting out of date, and quickly into the realms of oblivion.
The question is, how much longer can Ferrari go its own way without appearing to be bothered by its other competitors? |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 542
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 10:52 am: | |
Local dealer here takes a 10K deposit to get on the waiting list (you must specify which model). It is refundable until you order colors and options, then you are expected to make good when car arrives or lose deposit. Also, if you order wierd colors, they may ask for more deposit money when you order. All seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Speculation has always been the 360 replacement will arrive late in 2004 and probably be in Europe for a while before US shipments as has been the policy in the past.
Dave |
David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member
Username: Racerdj
Post Number: 161
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 10:20 am: | |
With the laws of supply and demand, I would welcome a cut in supply for all of us with current models and the affect of the value of our current car. Not to the point of making Ferrari ownership extremely difficult and rare. |
J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 176
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 10:12 am: | |
David
After reading my own post, I should have been more clear. The 27% allocation reduction is on all models not just the 360. The dealer was explaining to me that he understood reducing production on the 456 and 575 but why not UP production on the 360?
As an aside, this is a large Ferrari dealer and this dealer will receive just 1 spider for the rest of year.
The customer who walked away from his deposit was trying to limit his losses. When he ordered the car, 575 sales were still good but 6 months later values on the 575 changed.
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David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Junior Member
Username: Racerdj
Post Number: 158
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 8:57 am: | |
JD- I would believe your info as Shelton Ferrari told me that the rumors of the 360 replacement being late this year or next year as far as they knew were not going to happen. I am on the 360 replacement list and they will not take a deposit at this time. Why would they be getting 3 Stradale's this year and 9 in 2004? I would be interested in why the 360 Spider cuts? I agree that the 575 needs to be updated if in fact the sales are dead. I would doubt the deadness of the 575 sales though. Let's keep up the intelligence reporting as one said the Ferrari Dealer's sometimes are the last to know! I think it's time to revive the 360 LIST thread! |
J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 175
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 8:35 am: | |
Jay
As soon as a customer actually orders a car, the dealer asks for a deposit, usually $10K. Sometimes the dealer waves this deposit if you are good customer.
This is not to be confused with the deposit to get on the "list" to order a car. |
Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Member
Username: Jfraser
Post Number: 354
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 2:06 am: | |
It varies from dealer to dealer.... |
Jay P. Ross (Eilig)
Junior Member
Username: Eilig
Post Number: 140
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:58 pm: | |
..."I was told that some customers did not take delivery of their 575 when the car came in and they walked away from their deposit..."
I thought Ferrari dealers don't take deposits (?) Or does this vary from dealer to dealer? |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1438
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:26 pm: | |
Seems reasonable to assume that the 360 won't be replaced until they have a model challenge ready to succeed the current cars. |
J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 173
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 10:07 pm: | |
I keep in contact with 4 to 5 Ferrari dealers on a regular basis. I'm sharing this information based on speculation only. As you know, the Ferrari dealers are the last to hear anything from Ferrari of Italy.
Ferrari of Italy has stated there will be 3 new models in the next 3 years.
Fact: the 456 will be replaced in 2004. There is probably no debate over this.
2005: Will it be the 575 or 360 that gets replaced? I have heard from 2 dealers that the 575 SHOULD be the car to be replaced. According to these dealers, sales of the 575 are "dead in the water". I was told that some customers did not take delivery of their 575 when the car came in and they walked away from their deposit. Sales of the 360 are still strong so it makes sense to replace the 575 in 2005 and the 360 in 2006. Also, the dealers told me that the 360 Spider has never had a full year production run. The 360 Spider came out late 2001. Then Sept 11 happened and production was cut in 2002. And production has been cut again (I heard 27%)in 2003. The production cuts in 2003 make no sense considering the long list for the 360 Spider.
So the big question is, which car gets replaced in 2005?
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