| Author | Message | ||
| Don Netko (Jet328gts)
New member Username: Jet328gts Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2003 |
I have been looking for a very nice 328 GTS for some time. I have seen a few lower priced cars that need major service or have poor paint/dings etc. I did see one 1986 with about 30K miles that is mechanically excellent, service/belts recently completed, but with a few door dings and fair to average paint. What do you think such a car may be worth in today's market? Thanks | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 421 Registered: 1-2003 |
My '77 Euro 308 was $15K, but I knew I would put $20K in it right off the bat! I did..I'm happy and would not sell it for less than $35 (if I had to)  | ||
| Jeff (Jeff_m)
Junior Member Username: Jeff_m Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2002 |
For someone who already owns 7 Fcars whats another 10k? If I remember correctly, weren't you saying a while back you were buying a 355 since perfect cars were selling in the 60's? I would like to know where you shop. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 884 Registered: 10-2001 |
It comes down to this: you buy a $22k 308 and fall in love. It needs this; it needs that. It's like you dog, you gotta get it healthy. Before you know it you have $35k in your $22k car. I agree with Dave. A nice 308 will cost in the low 30's (or more if you screw up!)no matter what you buy the car for outright. It's cheaper to buy a great car at a higher price and pay a lot less to get it where you can live with it. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1179 Registered: 3-2001 |
It all gets down to each individual's expectations. There are always "steals" and "deals" out there but go take a close look at these cars. I've said it before, EXCELLENT condition is a relative term. Nobody wants to feel ripped off... but if you want a great car, be prepared to pay a premium. IMO, it's worth it... and much cheaper in the long run. Take Martin's 328 below, "perfect example $43,000 will buy the car today!". If it was truly "perfect", I've got to think the car would have sold months ago. And Martin, pls don't take that the wrong way... I think you're as straight a shooter as they come. But if you're having trouble selling a 22K mile, "perfect" 328 for $43K, it must have some flaws. | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 335 Registered: 9-2001 |
I agree with Dave. I just bought my '85 308 last June after a year search and close-up inspections of about 12 308's. Anything I saw for under $24k was essentially junk--or, I should say, needed a lot of work. Excellent carbed models Isaw were in the mid-upper 20's and can even get prices in the low $30's. QV's are largely $35k and up. Re: ebay--most of those cars don't sell for the final offer seen. Of course there are always exceptions and rare super-deals, but this was my experience last year and I don't see numbers changing that much--especially with re: to QV's. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 546 Registered: 1-2002 |
Martin, Didn't you say that 328 needed belt service? Bruno, Here's a few examples I know about first hand. Locally, 6 months ago, an 89 GTS red/tan with 7K miles and service just done sold for low 60's really fast with back up buyers. It was near perfect, but not perfect. 10 months ago, I sold my 85 308 GTB for 36K. It was nice with 40K miles, but a long way from perfect but with pretty fresh servicing. Took me a week and I had a backup buyer. I figure an 86-87 328 GTB would have sold 40-42K, so not much difference and I don't think the market on 308/328 has fallen off at all in last year. More recently I saw a 77 308 at Tillacks that was low mileage and very original, but bronze. It had also been long neglected mechanically. It has since sold I believe in the 23-25K range. However, it needed probably 10K worth of work to bring everything up mechanically and freshen the car, and it still would not have been perfect. Getting back to Bruno's question, I have had 3 308's and 2 328's, so obviously I like these cars. The 328 is overall much better built, easier to live with and much less "needy" maintenance and repair wise. I think, in the long run 328's are actually cheaper to own. I would certainly wager that you cannot find a turn key ready, sound carb 308 for 22K let alone a perfect one. I think you can find a nice 328 for 40K albeit with higher mileage and/or off color and/or needing major service but certainly not perfect. Nice, no stories cars with fresh service sell for really good money and quickly. Having bought both near perfect cars for strong money and needy cars cheap and can say that the cars I paid strong for were better deals in the end. Just my 2 cents. Dave | ||
| Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 363 Registered: 2-2002 |
I have to defer to Dave328GTB's statement: "I am willing to bet my idea of perfect and your idea are not the same." Definitely disparity there; usually is...the buyer and the seller's version of perfect.... | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 238 Registered: 7-2002 |
Agree with Terry. it is all down to the individual car. Buy cheaply and you'll likely pay dearly. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 500 Registered: 4-2002 |
Very nice 308 carb cars for $22K ? Sign me up! I'll buy them at that price purely to flip for a profit. Its true I see '80 - '82 injected cars for that. Usually with no recent belt service, no full maintenance receipts, decent paint and interior and it runs and drives ok. Solid #3 condition "drivers". I have a '77 308GTB that will be for sale within the next month or so. It has exceptional paint, a great interior, (Chiaro blue with tan interior) 46K miles and full books/records with a completely known history. Its receiving a full belt service now. Its also receiving new ceramic coated headers, all carbs rebuilt and rejetted, all fuel lines replaced, cam covers and belt covers powder coated, engine bay detailed to better than new standards, new full rotary A/C conversion, single distributor "Millermon" upgrade with MSD, new 16" repro wheels with new tires, Italian Design threaded body shocks that are 6 way adjustable for bump and rebound and uprated springs. I have ALL original parts and they are included. Everything that has been upgraded could be put back to stock in an afternoon. Within the last 6,000 miles it has received a clutch, water pump, cam drive bearings/seals and tons of other stuff. The stack of receipts is impressive. IS this car worth $22k? I think exceptional cars bring much higher prices. Average cars bring average prices. This is true for 308, 328 or Daytona. Its also true in each case that the average car cannot be turned into the exceptional car for the difference in price. So, is the guy buying the $22K 308 getting a better "deal" than the guy who may pay $35K for my 308? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4609 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, come my direction. 1987 328GTS 22K miles, perfect example $ 43,000 will buy the car today! | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1788 Registered: 7-2001 |
You could have this debate all day. Is a pristine 328 worth as much as a well driven 348? Or a pristine 348 Spider worth as much as a driven 355tb? If you find the car you want, at the price you want then it's worth it. I do understand where you're coming from. I'm wrestling with buying a new daily driver. Would I rather have a 3 year old S-class, or a brand new A4/G35/etc? | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 882 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm not sure any Ferrari is 'perfect' even when new! LOL. I bought a perfect 30 year old Lotus and $15k later it's even more perfect. I think a 25 year old Ferrari will be about the same. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 544 Registered: 1-2002 |
I would like to buy a perfect 308 for 22K and a perfect 328 for 40K. I am willing to bet my idea of perfect and your idea are not the same. Dave PS cash IS waiting | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 126 Registered: 4-2003 |
Doing a quick search at CarBuyer.com shows 308 QVs going for $35k-$45K. A typical 328 seems to be going in the mid 40s or higher with one person asking $82,000 for a 780 miles specimen. FWIW. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 837 Registered: 3-2002 |
I may be wrong, but won't the maintenance costs of a 308 vs a 328 eventually narrow that cost gap? | ||
| Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 362 Registered: 2-2002 |
Oops! Jus' saw that ya already own 2-308s! Jeez...I now understand your query better. Good Luck on a decision! | ||
| Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 361 Registered: 2-2002 |
Agree with ya, Bobd...on both statements. Bruno, since you don't think the price premium btwn the cars is worth it, save your money and get a nice 308. You said you were well-aware of the differences, so it sounds like the logical decision for you. And, yes please, "most dealers will let a perfect example go for $40k"...; point me in the right direction. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1177 Registered: 3-2001 |
Bruno, congratulations on your 7 Fcars... but I'm a little confused. Why are you looking for a 328 if you don't feel they're worth more than a 308? What's your point here.... I don't get it? | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1116 Registered: 5-2002 |
ALREAY OWN 2- 308'S. ALONG WITH 5 OTHER FCARS. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1138 Registered: 5-2001 |
Is your est. of 22K for the 308 excluding the 4V model? I have seen the 2V inj. and a select few 2V carb cars in the low 20s but not the 4V's. About the lowest I have seen these get for a good example is 28k or so. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1176 Registered: 3-2001 |
[[[ It seems to me that a 328 is not 15-20k more car than a 308. They are so similiar (and I am well familiar with the differences) to where a 328 does not warrant (to me) that much of a premium. ]]] Bruno, sounds to me like you've already made your decision. You claim to be very familiar with the differences between the 308 and 328. I'd suggest you keep 15K in your pocket and go find a clean 308 with a desirable color for $22K. Regarding 328's, you also mentioned, "most dealers will let a perfect example go for 40k"... and individuals are selling "perfect" 328's for $37K. Can you pls tell me which dealers are selling "perfect" 328's for $40K? And what individuals are selling perfect cars for $37K? I'd like to go pick up a couple of those cars (no brown ones pls). THX! Good luck! | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2003 |
Of course this isn't about the cars themselves but the current market and what it will bear. Current asking prices suggest a 12K spread on average (using your source). That is where the market is right now. And just like the stock market this spread may go up, down or remain the same. If you never sell then go ahead and buy now and never look back. It will not matter to you what the market does. Or wait and see if the market will bring them closer together. In order to make a better decision I would suggest you look at historical data. You would then be able to trend the market and see if your assumptions are correct. You may find that the spread as been $12K for the last 10 years. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1115 Registered: 5-2002 |
Craig for all those reasons I still say no it isnt. Remember not an everyday car. How often do you realize these differences. Well going to look at 1 now. sounds nice but it's brown???? Be gone most of afternoon but appreciate more input. Will check all post to this thread. And hey if anyone is selling or knows of a nice car drop me an email. I'm in Pennsylvania. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well if more power, better driveability, better build quality plus five more years of technology knowledge mean anything then yeah 2x might be worth it. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1114 Registered: 5-2002 |
http://www.manheimgold.com/car_lo.html to aid in value comparison. Now throw all my numbers out and use these. Is the extra $$ worth it? | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1113 Registered: 5-2002 |
I wasnt looking at 4v prices but I just looked at ebay and hmn and would say about 26k will do a nice car. So a 4v 308 at 26 a 328 at 38. 12k more. I say it is still to much of a premium. And if there is a mint shape 4v at 30k then a mint shape 328 will be 44k.Again the actual prices dont matter it's the spread I'm debating. Is it worth it . Should I still be looking to buy a 328 now? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1137 Registered: 5-2001 |
Is your est. of 22K for the 308 excluding the 4V model? I have seen the 2V inj. and a select few 2V carb cars in the low 20s but not the 4V's. About the lowest I have seen these get for a good example is 28k or so. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Junior Member Username: Milo Post Number: 122 Registered: 4-2003 |
I agree... compare the 328 to the 308 QV and the price gap will be much smaller. You should find very clean 308 QVs in the 30s. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1112 Registered: 5-2002 |
ok use that, a 2v to a 328. is the 328 worth almost 2x the price of a 2v. I think no. I'll take to 2v cars 1-gtb 1-gts. | ||
| Crawford White (Crawford)
New member Username: Crawford Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2003 |
I think you're comparing 2 valve injected 308's to 328's. That's where the big spread is. A QV 308 is going to be much closer in price to a 328. The people who look at these cars and say "WOW" will not be the ones who buy them. A serious buyer will decide if he wants to spend the extra $$ for the upgrades of a 328 over a 308, leaving (to an extent) looks aside. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Intermediate Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 1111 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have been looking vigorously for a 328 the past month. It appears that most dealers will let a perfect example go for 40k and about 3k less from an individual. While I am not posting to debate current market values. (although if you check my previous post about 330,355,etc I was dead on with where I predicted the values would be down to now). But enough tooting my own horn "TOOT, TOOT" values mean nothing to me after I buy an Fcar as I rarely sell them. I am a pure collector. To the point. A very clean 308 can be had for 22k (again the actual dollar amount doesnt really play as we are going to debate the total spread. If you want to believe a 308 is 26 k and a 328 is 46 ok.) A very nice 328 can be bought for 38k. It seems to me that a 328 is not 15-20k more car than a 308. They are so similiar (and I am well familiar with the differences) to where a 328 does not warrant (to me) that much of a premium. Now while the 328 is newer that might justify a little more money but hey in 10 years the spread will not be as close. unless 308's drop down to 15k then a 328 maybe will be 25k. Not looking to upset current 328 owners but logic tells me this is what is going to happen. And there is a lot of them out there. Look at it like this,you drive into a parking lot everyone looks at the 308 and go's wow. Does the 328 get anymore wow. And you got 15k or so more $$ in your pocket. Reminds me of a tv commercial. And I know about the performance difference. But hey get a carbed 308 and work it a litle. But to me that small performance difference is not worth the $$$ as how often do you beat the car. Well thats it. And yes I am still looking for a 328. |