| Author | Message | ||
| robert di meglio (Robdimeglio)
New member Username: Robdimeglio Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2002 |
richard,no offense intended with regard to your 246gt. if you read my original post, i described it as a nice driver - just not up to concours level. i agree that it drives well. however, i also felt that for me to be happy with it i would probably have to put another 5K into it, assuming no hidden issues mechanically. fully sorted i would not want to spend more than low 50K range for a nice but not concours 246 coupe. this would mean offering you a purchase price below 50K. as i did not want to insult with a low ball offer, i just left it at that. other people in the marketplace may disagree with what a 246 coupe should cost. you may well find someone who will pay your asking price. however, it is generally well known that gts cars go for about 20K more than coupes. top level condition and a full history are also factors that influence some of the high ASKING prices currently seen in the market. in summary, my comments are only one studied opinion. best wishes with the car. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have an excellent female's attention already. ;-) And we have a Porsche 996 convertible that does just fine for that! | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 471 Registered: 6-2001 |
The coupe is certainly just as cool. Enjoy it!! The only thing about having the top off in the summer in NYC is that you get plenty of female attention. That can be good or bad depending upon how you look at it, and what the females look like. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
Solly -- we have 2 convertibles so am actually looking for a coupe -- plus saving $30k don't hurt. Thanks for the advice though -- I'll use it! Scott | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 470 Registered: 6-2001 |
Spend the extra and get the GTS. I've never had a leak although sometimes the latches squeak-easily curable with some lubricant. I drive mine in the rain often. Get new wiper bldes. Service records not critical (unless car had a major restoration and rebuild, and you are paying the price because of that). Mine had none. Unless the previous owner(s) were psychotically anal there will be a lot of missing info anyway. Things to look for: 1) Rust:sills, window frame, front and rear arches 2) Oil leaks. a little oozing is normal, a big puddle after standing overnight is not 3) Do compression test all cylinders with leakdown. Unless engine waas recently rebuilt don't expect perfect compression in all cylinders, but do assure that they are all in the same range 4) Does it have the original "dinoplex" ignition, or did someon already swap it out to a newer, better unit? Check for a coil upgrage as well 5) Get in and run it at 4000 rpm or better-typical operating range for a Dino. They HATE low revs. Should be smooth and responsive at anything over 4000 RPM, with no hiccups, normal oil temp and pressure, and normal water temp. I typically run mine at 4-5500 RPM in everyday driving. 6) Don't worry if you can't get into 2nd gear when car is cold. none of us can. It gets better as it warms up. Nothing like taking that top off on a sunny july day and cruising. go for it. Dino's are a blast. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yep the house is on 10 acres so I have room the "THE garage". So far 3 spaces are full -- 2000 Porsche 996 Cab, 2003 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 1995 Mercedes E320 Cab. Stall #4 will be a Ferrari!  Scott | ||
| Dennis Arner (Dennis_in_se_pa)
New member Username: Dennis_in_se_pa Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2003 |
Sorry Scott but - a house with no garage? Not passing judgement here, I just don't understand. What car nut buys a house with no garage? The next house I buy will be dependant upon the garage! We need more garage and less house, at least that is my perspective. Oh, unless you are planning to build "The Garage". Then all is understood. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks for all your help -- we are just buying a house now that has no garage, so once I get the garage built I'm going on a serious Dino-hunt!! | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 224 Registered: 10-2001 |
I've never understood the need for a huge stack of past service records. Within a few hours, one can determine what has been done to car and/or what needs to be done. Very little on a car like a Dino comes with a "time limit" that will tell you "oh, it hasn't been changed in X years so it has to be done now". If the car drives well, suspension components are good, compression check shows strong even numbers, doesn't leak excessively or run too hot, then just buy it. Anything else that might be wrong is easy to repair. I'd be more suspicious buying a car from someone who paid $35k for a rebuild. (I rebuild a dino engine with all new internal parts - except cams which you can get for $1k - for less than $6k including machining: not counting labor since I disassembled and assembled under the watchful eye of a friend, but it wouldn't take more than 30 hours anyway). This sort of owner obviously had more money than time on their hands when it came to understanding and taking care of the car. I prefer previous owners that understood the car enough to take care of it personally or at least understood it enough to not get taken to the bank by some mechanic somewhere. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have adriven a couple and they're a blast. Of course nothing compared to the 996 in my garage but like everyone says there's nothing like a Ferrari. I'm going to take my time to find the car for me - whether it's today or in a year. Thanks for all of your help | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2003 |
Agreed!!! Have you driven any yet? | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2002 |
Adrian I certainly understand that a perfect vehicle is not to be found, and one close to perfect would get a serious premium! But to have records that service was actually performed is certainly something that I would consider to be important... | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3653 Registered: 9-2001 |
no need to start an argument - you guys are not really far apart on your views. but in the end the value of a car is what someone is willing to pay for it on a given day, nothing more than that. asking prices, indices etc are only a guide. You cannot compare pristine GTS cars to limited record GT cars, plus remember people pay premiums to buy from Karem and other dealers like him because they know they are getting a solid car and the seller will stand behind them, not so with individual sales. BTW they sell alot of these cars at BJ auctions, you might want to check that out | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2003 |
Scott, for what it's worth, a car of this age will have issues sooner or later. The age of the components, not to mention the earlier understanding of design and lower manufacturing quality means that even if a part has recently been replaced, there is a good chance that it may still fail. My car came with a stack of imvoices about 1" thick, showing what the previous owners did. When I studied the invoices, I saw the same parts replaced a few times in a 10 year period...clutch cable as an example. Having said that, find a mechanic who knows these cars intimately and can give you a proper PPI. This will help alleviate some of the concerns. And finally, buy with open eyes. Realise that the car was NEVER perfect, even new. Heck, they still aren't! | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2002 |
Richard, Your car interested me and I've just begun researching it. I want to invest what a car is worth, not what someone is asking for it. From what I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong) your car has few service records from it's long history. That's a worry. I would be interested in paying what it's worth -- I never said I'd only pay $45k for a 246GT, heck I'd pay $70k for the right one. Perhaps if you had emailed me back more information rather than going on the offensive here... I'm not sure you sound like someone I'd want to deal with if that's how you react to questions. The problem is that even a pre-purchase inspection can't tell what service has been done over the last 30 years -- and pretty much every guide says one of the most important things is service records. Also you never answered my question as to why you're selling after only 6 months of ownership? I appreciate the help of everyone on this board -- I've been researching the 246 for well over a year now and still looking for the right one. | ||
| Richard Gilmore (Astuteinv)
New member Username: Astuteinv Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2003 |
BTW I just spoke w/ Eddie Karam and he sold a 246GTS for $80,000 and he has a yellow GTS flairs and chairs for sale for $95,000. Cheers. Richard | ||
| Richard Gilmore (Astuteinv)
New member Username: Astuteinv Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2003 |
Scott, Good luck finding a Dino in excellent shape for as little as you want to invest. You get what you pay for. I have what I think to be one of the best Dinos in the country and am not willing to take less than I think it is worth. No rust, no accidents, smooth synchro's, top end rebuild by Alan Johnson at Ogners- feel free to call him. Mr. Roushe's publication has the average asking price at $60,735. I listed mine below that to account for no service records. FOA has seen the car and praised it highly. You can call Tom there Monday and speak with him. An interested buyer flew in from San Diego last Friday and said he looked at one out there that someone had spent $35,000 to rebuild the engine. He said mine was faster and sounded better. After he got home he emailed me : "I couldn't get the exhaust note out of my mind the whole way home. What a little beast!" He is going to pay for a PPI next week so we will see. I told him he not only needs to pay near the asking price but pry my fingers off the steering wheel! Robert - I didn't know you were an authority on resale values on Dino's! Go lowball a beater but don't knock mine pal. What kind of deal did you get on your Modena? If I were you I would stick to medicine! Good luck! Richard www.dino246gt.com Inspections welcome | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks for much for the info Roger! You saved me the time and money of a pre-inspection from FoA unless the seller is willing to sell for much below his asking price. I have already emailed the guy @ Ferrari register to find out the history. | ||
| Bryan Phillips (Bryanp)
Junior Member Username: Bryanp Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2002 |
I second Mr. Hart - Welcome, Gerald!! Scott - send the s/n to Denny Schue at www.dinoregister.com and he'll tell you what he has in the database. Bryan | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1079 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think we should note, with some fanfare, Mr. Roush's participation on this Board. | ||
| robert di meglio (Robdimeglio)
New member Username: Robdimeglio Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2002 |
scott, i am familiar with the car in question. looked at it about 3 mos ago and drove it. i would put the car in the nice driver category, in what appears to be in good cosmetic and mechanical condition. it is not a concours quality car, though. the biggest problem with it is the lack of comprehensive service records and some non-original modifications (minor ones). also, i believe the owner was asking 57K and after looking at it i thought it was probably worth no more than 42-45K. | ||
| robert di meglio (Robdimeglio)
New member Username: Robdimeglio Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2002 |
scott, i am familiar with the car in question. looked at it about 3 mos ago and drove it. i would put the car in the nice driver category, in what appears to be in good cosmetic and mechanical condition. it is not a concours quality car, though. the biggest problem with it is the lack of comprehensive service records and some non-original modifications (minor ones). also, i believe the owner was asking 57K and after looking at it i thought it was probably worth no more than 42-45K. | ||
| Dennis Arner (Dennis_in_se_pa)
New member Username: Dennis_in_se_pa Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2003 |
246 was the best looking Ferrari ever IMHO. OK, no 12 cylinders, we are talking visually here. I sat in one on a trip to Geneva Switzerland 30 years ago. I am still drooling thinking about the look from the driver's seat! GOD wants me to have one! Not just yet though! But I am working on it. I have a dream wife, and dream children. Compared to that the car is still important, but only so important. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2002 |
How rare is this maroon red? I love how this color looks on the 246...  http://www.dino246gt.com/ | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2002 |
How rare is this maroon red? I love how this color looks on the 246...  http://www.dino246gt.com/ | ||
| Dennis Arner (Dennis_in_se_pa)
New member Username: Dennis_in_se_pa Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2003 |
West Chester PA? 1 hour from me. I can check it out for you but I am a Ferrari rookie! Not this weekend though. Going to Watkins Glen with some Porsche buddies. | ||
| Gerald L. Roush (Ferrmktltr)
New member Username: Ferrmktltr Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
Eddie Karam, Karam Automotive, West Chester, PA 610-429-9990, fax 610-429-972. Car has been advertised in my Ferrari Market Letter since March 2003 so may no longer be for sale. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2002 |
How do I find this Eddie Karem? | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yea there's a Dino available but it has the Ferrari badge and horse, and they're drilled in -- wish they were adhesive so I could remove them. Just doesn't feel right... | ||
| Dennis Arner (Dennis_in_se_pa)
New member Username: Dennis_in_se_pa Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2003 |
Someday I hope to be able to get a 246 GTS. As opposed to an earlier post, I prefer the lines of the Spyder. This is not an expense, it is an investment, I just cannot "invest" that much at this point! I will have to settle for a 308 GTS for now. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1077 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think Eddie Karem has a pristine one. He is not cheap but you will get a good car.He is outside of Phila. and has a reputation for finding very low mileage ferraris. (That is itself another subject). As for adding Ferrari badges to a Dino, there's a veteran on this board that has almost convinced us to remove the Ferrari badges from anything less than a 12 cyl car and replace them with Dino nomenclature. (Frank- whaddyasay). I wouldn't do that to a Dino, but hey, its your money... And, welcome to the Chat. | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2002 |
How much does it devalue a Dino to have had a FERRARI script and Prancing Horse installed on the rear? And drilled -- not adhesive.  I think I'll probably wait and find one that doesn't have those on it... Thanks for the info -- I'm in no hurry and want to find a good one. If anyone comes across one... I'd prefer silver, grey, dark red, white or black. | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
New member Username: Audionut Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2003 |
Wow, an opportunity for a newby like me to give back, since this forum has been so generous in helping me with my 246 GT. I've had my car for alomost a week now, and I can honestly say that this is the first time in a loooong while that the excitement did NOT end with the purchase. I look for every excuse to drive the car. It is invigorating, exciting and bare bones crude. I LOVE IT! Unless you are very lucky or very patient, it will be hard to find one with COMPLETE, original and authentic service history. If you can find one that has been restored with evidence, the car will be a good candidate. Try to find a local mechanic who knows the model inside out. When you find a car, bring it to the mechanic for a complete and thorough inspection. If it is important to you that the car be as original and true as possible, be sure the mechanic is able to do so. I was very fortunate as the mechanic who inspected the car is himself a Dino fanatic and is looking for one. He is also the oldest licensed and trained Ferrari mechanic in Ontario. His report was over 15 pages long, very detailed (e.g. not original ashtray...) and complete. Finally, drive it for some length of time, and if possible, drive it a few times. Then immediately drive a current car and feel the difference. After the romance and aura wears off, be sure you really want to hear the engine and exhaust ALL THE TIME, because you will! The driving experience is totally different from what current sporty cars offer. Make sure you have the books and tools, and you have access to a mechanic who knows how to tune the carburetors. My car is currently running a little lean and sputters a little above 5000rpm. As a result, it does not have great pull above that. Will be going back for a tuneup soon. Also, check for worn rubber/suspension bits. Check out www.theautochannel.com/publications/magazines/forza/number13/index.html for Forza magazine's guide to Dinos. Also check the archives here for contributions by fellow chatters who were so kind to answer my incessant questions. Good luck! Adrian Low | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 542 Registered: 6-2002 |
Scott - my opinion only. Coupe is more aesthetically pleasing (for me). Coupe is stiffer. Coupe costs less. Coupes don't leak from top. Both will hold their relative value. Look for rust in rocker panels, doors, rear wheel well. All will have some rust - purchase should take in account this issue, and assume somewhere along the way you will have to cut the cancer out. Engine service - somewhere in its history - is important (head re-torqueing, valve shim adjustment). Buy one, drive it, have fun, and don't worry. Jim S. | ||
| Paul Wehmer (Pwehmer)
Junior Member Username: Pwehmer Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2002 |
Forza did a nice buyers guide issue a couple years ago. Should be on thier back issue list. | ||
| Terry Limehouse (Terrykarr)
Junior Member Username: Terrykarr Post Number: 128 Registered: 12-2002 |
This site can help you with production numbers. http://www.dinoregister.com/production.html | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2002 |
P.S. Does anyone know anything or have opinions on this car? Looks nice. I've been emailing the owner (who I assume reads this board). http://www.dino246gt.com/">http://www.dino246gt.com/ | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2002 |
n/a | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2002 |
I just found my production answer: 1969-74 246GT 2487 cars 1972-74 246GTS 1274 cars | ||
| Scott Mandell (Semandell)
New member Username: Semandell Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've been wanting to get a Dino for a while now, have read this board on and off for a couple of years, subscribe to the market letter, and of course search this forum. A couple of questions for you that know the Dino GT and GTS: Is there any year that is better than others? Or is newer (74) just better? What were the production numbers of GTS vs GT? I see a LOT more GTSs for sale (especially on market letter site) than GT's -- though of course GTS's get almost a 50% premium. Do the GTS tops have any leak problems? I'm leaning toward the GT because I already have 2 convertibles and wouldn't mind a coupe -- plus saving $30k on essentially the same car is appealing! Lastly is there a good "buying guide" on what to look for and/or have a mechanic look for when looking to buy a 246? I'm looking for a fun car to own for a long time, to use occassionally, and not to show. Thanks in advance! Scott (in VA) |