| Author | Message | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1328 Registered: 4-2002 |
Also to note on the Monday/Friday issue: Most major components (engines, trans, etc.) are usually made in separate facilities at some previous date. So your car may have started out being assembled on Monday, finished on Friday, using a engine made 3 weeks ago Monday, and a trans made 1 1/2 months ago on a Friday. I'd wager that the Monday/Friday content of cars is probably relatively uniform across all of the model in question. PS - ran across some old Corvette data. Line speed was 10-12 cars/hour. 8 hour shift gives just under 100 cars/day, which gives the normal Corvette production of 25K cars/year, or just over 30K/year with overtime. At a spacing of approx 20 feet, the line would run about 250 feet/day. Some work used to be done 'offline' (don't know if this is still true) such as painting. So the car essentially isn't moving during these operations. Anyway, as the assembly line is somewhere around 2 miles long, that's 5 working days. I'd heard that in total, assembly of a Corvette was around 2 weeks - not counting the componenets outsourced, which is damn near everything. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1327 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ross: This varies depending upon make/model of car, but cars aren't built on a Monday or a Friday. Most cars take many days to wind thru the assembly process, and generally every car is exposed to a Friday and/or Monday. I forgot how long they told me it took to build a Corvette, but I was very surprised. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 899 Registered: 10-2001 |
Old British cars become a lot more reliable once you replace as much Lucas stuff as you can. Concourse, Schmoncourse: it runs a LOT better! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 251 Registered: 4-2003 |
Years ago I spoke to a friend in Detroit. He said that when working for a American car Manufacturer, QC allowed a "Variance" in the amount of fasteners (bolts) that could be missing. That is like the old, "your car is all back together and it runs great." Just ignore that basket of "Extra" parts. You should not need them.Ha Ha. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4710 Registered: 5-2001 |
LOL Ross....the french cars....and who would want to buy one anyhow. When traffic gets heavy they run....weasles! | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1222 Registered: 3-2002 |
virtually any car built in britain will have issues. i know ford has tried to make some dramatic qc changes but there are probably still issues on new jags and astons and range rovers nevertheless. french cars are faulty as well, but they are usually so ugly that i've never bought one for my own use, and so have no personal experience with them. anything made in italy prior 92 would be full of faults. i draw the line there because i think montezemolo has done wonders for ferrari reliability. i think german, and increasingly american, cars' reliability depends on what day of the week they were built. by that i mean, i think about 20pct of the cars coming from mercedes or chrysler, are crap right from day one (built on monday and fridays), 60pct probably exhibit normal wear and tear issues that usually get fixed under warranty (built on tuesday, thursday, and maybe saturday and sunday), and 20pct are bullet proof (built on wednesday and thursday mornings). | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 341 Registered: 5-2002 |
I would say British, Italian and let us not forget FRENCH cars are among the least reliable. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2002 |
My brother's 88 carrera dropped a valve at 12,000 miles. Porsche authorized a rebuild not a replacement. It was at Holberts for a month or two. My 944 went through similar troubles. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 585 Registered: 11-2001 |
So Porshces with bad engines and seals, cars from Italy with bad Electrical components but people still buy them. I had a Porsche 911 back in the days but never had a problem with it except the A.C. didn't work well & the next owner abused it. | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 391 Registered: 8-2002 |
Funny, my Porsche was a piece of cr*p. So many of them had rear-main-seal problems as well as blown engines that the dealership was just replacing them with new engines instead of fixing them. Never an official recall by Porsche, however, most P-car owners know of the issues. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 582 Registered: 11-2001 |
Yes, Fiat, the X1/9 broke down a few times and even overhauled it, caught on fire, see you later. It was fun to drive although power is not great it handled very well. When my F-car had problems starting and engine lights started to come on the first thing came to mind was, damn, not again! something about cars from Italy, always seems something going bad. If it wasn't for the looks of the cars I wouldn't think twice of every buying a car from Italy. Not all Italian made cars are like that but surely most of them are esp. prior to 00. I notice poor quality connectors, switches, and buttons used throughout the cars. They seem to focus mostly on looks, handling, and some power but the most important thing overlooked is the reliability of most of these cars as it seems there is a clock in every car when the time runs out so does the reliability. I have worked on some electrical components and switches on a few Italian cars and I have to say they are extremely poorly made and were not meant to last. Have also owned 3 prior Italian made cars, all had poor wiring and switches, coincidence? definately not. Although the reliability is not there, we still buy the damn cars, and the question why? each has their own reasons why and will ignore other peoples neg. opinions on them. The question is what is more important, reliability, or performance and looks? I feel that if you buy an F-car or any car from Italy you would pass up the reliability and gamble on it and just buy the car and hope for the best. That is really what I feel and I'm sure most would agree to this. If not I would like to hear some true thoughts on this as it would be interesting to hear something else. Before ending this, I'm not saying that it's just the cars from Italy that have problems as other cars do have problems from time to time but the topic is on the Italian made cars in general prior to 00 as I haven't worked on any of the newer models. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 233 Registered: 4-2003 |
Sunny, I had a Fiat many moons ago. "Fix It Again Tony". | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 232 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dennis, after you read the article, let me know how you perceive the Author's perceptions. They seem quite skewed, and biased towards him really not being satisfied with the 996 in a general sense. He seemed pretty negative all the way around. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4665 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sunny, only British names come to mind  | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 891 Registered: 10-2001 |
My Lotus is 100% reliable between breakdowns. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 477 Registered: 2-2003 |
Lets open this thread up a little more.. What five marques are the least reliable? When the two words, cars and unreliable, are put in the same sentence, what do you think/know of? I know my daily driver is near the top of that list. Sunny | ||
| Dennis (Bighead)
Junior Member Username: Bighead Post Number: 103 Registered: 2-2003 |
To be fair, it's probably not a "complete engine failure", as much as one may like to beat on p-cars. I am a subscriber to EC, but am at Watkins Glen right now so can't check out the details of the article. What I can tell you, however, is that with the introduction of the Boxster and 996 (911), Porsche became much more aggresive about customer service and reliability. When a car suffered from certain problems, like some oil leaks or coolant seeping, Porsche simply authorized a replacement engine. Dropping the engine out and sticking a new one in is not a terribly tough job, and Porsche got the old engine shipped back for inspection. I suspect that they are doing the same for the new 3.6 liter 996 engine as well. If anyone actually cares, a google search will likely find a lot of Porsche sites discussing this policy. And it's not like "a lot" of Porsches were suffering from engine maladies; enough for people to notice, but still a very minor percentage of an all new lineage of cars. So, again, to be fair, this is probably a better example of Porsche going out of their way to make sure that owners are satisfied with their cars, rather than simply having dealerships taking a week or three trying to fix problems with newly designed engines. When do you think we'll see Ferrari doing THAT? vty, --Dennis | ||
| Don Vollum (Donv)
Junior Member Username: Donv Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2002 |
The engine in my 3.2 Mondial was replaced at 8,000 miles, according to the warranty book. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1345 Registered: 10-2002 |
Yes The timing belts in my TR broke at about 6,000 miles and required a complete engine rebuild which was done under warantee and the entire engine in my 308 was replaced under warantee due to high oil consumption. I have found Ferrari very willing to fix something that shouldn't have broken under warantee. Best Jim | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 231 Registered: 4-2003 |
As a current F-Car owner, and long time former P-car owner I occassionally pick up European Car Magazine from the newstand. On page #100 of the May 2003 issue, Author Dan Barnes offers a long-term summary of a 911 Carrera 3.6. Dan states, "The engine required replacement at 6,118 miles. That was surprising, but appearantly Porsche was prepared to deal with it, beacause just a few days were required for the R&R. The old engine was taken to Germany and inspected, and Porsche eventually relayed that the trouble was a failed auxilary shaft bearing." Has anyone out there heard of, or expereinced complete engine failure at 6K in an modern F-Car? |