| Author |
Message |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 3:01 pm: | |
Martin,
The official Ferrari dealers cannot charge more than list price for people who ordered the cars. They can, however, sell the same cars (previously-owned)well above list for people buying off the showroom floor.
I read that Enzo wanted a road-legal race car and he complained that the 288GTO was just too comfortable. The engineers honored his request and so the F40 was born.
F50s are superior to the F40 in most respects but they just don't have the Enzo touch. Thus, the F50s and any limited edition cars that comes after will not be as significant.
Now if they could get Herr Schumacher to work on a future car... |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 2:12 pm: | |
Ernesto, it will not be worth $50K in a year. I am sure of that.
The good thing is that you spend only list on the car. That is wise if you ask me. Never pay a premium to have a toy right away. Buring money. With the best job and the most money you make I can not see that happening.
I do know a guy here that does that. Bought an F40 for $400,000 (way too high) and put $25,000 into an exhaust and some other crap and then got tired of in 4 months later and sold it for $300,000. Sorry, it does not matter how much money you have, that is plain stupid! |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 2:07 pm: | |
Maybe I am wrong on the F40. Maybe this car will hold value and even go higher. It is a good car.
Now with Enzo being involved...so was he on the development of the 348, but that does not help that car a bit. In truth that was the car he was last involved in, although released after his death, the engineering started back in 1982 on the 348, he picked the design and was involved in the development of the 3.4L V8.
F40 or 288? Boy that is a tough one. I like them both for different things. How about buying both! |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 2:02 pm: | |
My sentiment exactly, Ernesto! |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:58 pm: | |
Frank,
The 288GTO is much rarer than the F40. However, the few that I've looked at had some significant quality issues. Body panels don't quite align, worn out interiors, questionable milage and engine conditions. Same could be said of some F40s. I would take a F40 over the GTO simply because of superior performance and it's Enzo's final vision.
Now if money's no object, I'd take both in a heartbeat. |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:55 pm: | |
I bought my 360 (at list price, may I add), not thinking about what it might be worth in a year, or two... or three. I bought it because I loved it. It is not an investment, it is a car. If my 360 is work $50,000 in three years, who cares? I make money on my job. That's what it's for: to spend it.
Ernesto |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:54 pm: | |
I bought my 360 (at list price, may I add), not thinking about what it might be worth in a year, or two... or three. I bought it because I loved it. It is not an investment, it is a car. If my 360 is work $50,000 in three years, who cares? I make money on my job. That's what it's for: to spend it.
Ernesto |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:41 pm: | |
If the new F60 (or whatever it'll be called) is all what it's cracked up to be, F50 prices might come down to more realistic levels as more become available.
Pre-owned 456s and 550s will be marked down simply because they are not exotic enough to most people even if they are rarer than the V8s. Prices on these have fallen already and the ones priced near new car prices are just sitting in the showrooms.
360 prices will come down a lot if more former dot-bomb millionairs start dumping them in droves to raise cash. In my area, I haven't met any 360 owners who works (or worked) at a dot-bomb.
The fact that the 360 will depreciate eventually does not bother me as an owner. I'm having too much fun with the car to worry about it. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:19 pm: | |
Willis, if I had the resources I would buy a 288GTO rather than an F40 ! It is a much better built vehicle and will stand the test of time better IMHO. It looks better too. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 12:55 pm: | |
I have to agree with Frank. The 288GTO and the F40 are pretty significant because Enzo himself was involved in creating them. The F40 was Enzo's vision of a modern road/racing car in the same vein as the 250GT SWB, 250GTO, TdF, etc. Add in the fact the the F40 was the last car Enzo "touched" make it that much more desirable.
I missed out on buying an immacculate F40 a couple of years ago. I could have bought it for around 250k (maybe even less). I'm really kicking myself for that one. It would be really nice to have the F40 keep my 360 Modena company. With the stock market and the economy continuing south, I just might get another chance. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 12:19 pm: | |
From the 80s the only Ferraris IMHO likely to appreciate are : 1)288GTO; 2)F40; 3)fiberglass 308; and that's it ! As far as which cars will depreciate: All the rest. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:50 am: | |
Price appreciation and depreciation of Ferraris should be a concern to collectors who want cars for the best prices.
I don't think anyone who simply wish to profit off "flipping" the new cars have any appreciation of what these cars are. All those Modenas with low miles on the market just make me sad. |
Jean-Pierre D. (Jp348spider)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:04 am: | |
Martin, I agree with you. I did not buy for an investment either but for the pleasure of driving.
You still do not want to waste your money. and I think paying 140,000K and up for a 355 spyder today is wasting your money since
1: you get the same pleasure driving a 80,000K 348 spider. Especially on american roads. In Europe it is another story...355 is cheaper there and you can floor it...
2: 355 is way overpriced right now (up to 160,000)and won't stay up there long.
Anyway..just keep driving and smiling |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 6:24 am: | |
But Jean-Pierre, you are not bullish on your 348 Spider either. Will not go down much further means that it may lose a few more bucks. So most of the post have been rather stagnant than bullish with their cars.
In the end I agree, who cares! I enjoy my car. I drove 8000 Miles last year and will have another 8000 this year. My car will lose value just because of that or make it impossible to sell the car in a few years with 100,000 Miles. Talking about depreciating. The money I make with the smile that this car puts in my face every morning driving 1.5 Miles to work?
Buying a 1991 Ferrari 348 ..........$ 56,000
Putting gas in the car..............$ 25.60
Insurance...........................$ 460.00
30K service.........................$ 8,000
making me smile driving to work.....priceless |
Arman N. (Yelo348spider)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 10:40 pm: | |
WHO CARES. Owning a Ferrari is not about making or losing money. If you can not enjoy driving these works of art then something must be wrong. Each model has its own greatness in my opinion. Just enjoy driving whhichever model you could afford. |
Tenney (Tenney)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 10:07 pm: | |
Appreciators (Perhaps slightly in current economy):
F40 - Fairly important historically. Somewhat rare (200-250 U.S.). Revered as one of the better "drivers" cars. Still priced under original MSRP.
330/365 GTC - Have been on the rise recently. Classic, less flashy design. Considered to be a fine driving road car.
Boxer(s) - Just seem underpriced. A decent amount of Ferrari for the dough.
Depreciators:
Most of the marked-up crop of current cars. 550 Barchetta and future F60 being perhaps a pair of exceptions. |
David Harris (Dakharris)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 7:28 pm: | |
Guys, it's not rocket science. If a 2001 Ferrari depreciates only 15% over the next 3 years (good luck), it is more than what I paid for my Mondial. With a little elbow grease and a few new parts, my car has increased over 25% in value since I bought it last March. The big dollar, newer street cars are going to depreciate. The older, cheaper cars don't really have any further to go down because they still have the yellow and black horse on them. I have the utmost respect for the newer models and would love to own a brand new Ferrari, but I don't want to spend that much money on what for me is a toy. |
Jean-Pierre D. (Jp348spider)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 1:57 pm: | |
I definitively agree with Tino regarding profiles and comments.
To prove it to you, I own a 1995 348 spider and I do not think it will go down much anymore if at all...
The reason why?
Only 1049 made and difference in value with the 355 much too great today.
The 355 is a better car but not $50,000 better. I can tell you...I tried both |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 1:53 pm: | |
not really Tino. i do not see a great future for the 348 that i am driving. neither do i see a great future for the 456 that i will eventually add to my stable.
The only person is the Mondial, which IH believe is a very good example of a car that will not lose any more value and may go up again.
How do you see your BB? Down, up or stable? |
tino stramotas (Bboxer)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 1:08 pm: | |
I've checked profiles of the pundits on this thread and it's interesting to see almost always people predict doom on cars they don't have (or want to own) and predict rosier futures for cars they have. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:44 am: | |
328 vs 348.
My 2 cents is that as you can see in this forum there are 328 lovers that would never move into a 348 and there are those that will always take the modern advances of the 348 for the same money. I personally do not think there will be much of a gap between the 328 and the 348, much as there is not a big one today.
They are both great cars and have each their advantages and their following. For a weekend driven 328 the AC does not make a difference. To me, driving every day it does. Heck I put the top back on the car becasue I do not want to sweat at 95°F and 110% humidity (feels like 225°F to me). |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 8:38 am: | |
Rob,
I am with Danny on the 348 (obviously).
Depreciating:
360 Coupe and Spider (big time)
355 way over priced
456 (will buy one once they have reached $70K)
550 will come down but not as hard as others.
F40
F50
Stagnant:
Testarossa
TR
348
308i
328
308qv
Appreciating:
308 Carb and fiberglass
Mondial Cconvertible
348 Speciale
348 Challenge (the real ones)
330 GTC classics
250 GTE classics |
Peter Boray (Gts308qv)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 3:19 am: | |
Top class 308(carb & QV) and average 328's are almost on par now. The best of the 308's will very slowly appreciate. GT4's are mostly static but original restored examples are starting to move up. Mondial's are still going down in the current market except the Mondial't'which has stabilised. Mondials will not really move up for at least 2 - 3 years yet. Only the later 348's are starting to appreciate. 400A & i cars are still on the downward fall as neglected examples hit the market.All the "house on wheels" cars such as 360 355 & 456 550 cars are still very much attached to the .com and share price index. If the US economy does not start moving from it's slump and the artificially inflated US Dollar re-alignes to a more realistic level allowing US industry to be more world competitive, we will see a lot more 'latest/greatest crowd' cars hit the market at deflated prices. Still too rich for me though ! |
Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 1:52 am: | |
How about the 328? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 10:11 pm: | |
Danny, you are probably right, it's been hit so hard the past several years. Some have said it will go below the 328 prices, but I think the modern lines and significant performance increase will always keep it $5-15k above the 328. |
David Harris (Dakharris)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 7:27 pm: | |
Over next THREE years:
Depreciators:
1.456
2.550
3.360
Appreciators:
1.308GT4
2.Mondial Cabriolet
3.308GTS (Carb.)
The new ones are so expensive, that they have a long way to fall. The older 308's have already hit bottom. The nice ones will be restored and the others will be "retired." |
DAVID B HOLMES (Dbh)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 6:37 pm: | |
MONDIAL CABS $30,000. FOR A FERRARI CONVERTABLE HOW COULD IT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT I THINK THAT THEY WILL GO UP IN PRICE |
Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 5:08 pm: | |
Rob,
I'm sorry, but have to disagree with 348s depreciating any more. In fact they have appreciated over the last year according to CPI.
Dan |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 3:57 pm: | |
I'll stick with the half way common cars...
Depreciators over next 3 years...
1) 355 (I love this car, so maybe wishful thinking)
2) 456 (not a car for the tifosi, targets more the latest and greatest baseball player crowd and it's not the latest and greatest anymore)
3) 550 (does target the tifosi, but not many of us with the money)
4) 348 (it's already been hit hard)
Appreciators over next 3 years...
1) 275
2) 365
3) 330 |