| Author |
Message |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 7:53 pm: | |
Can someone summarize this for us lazy people. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 6:58 pm: | |
Update -
FNA has responded, here is a link to a scanned document (it will take some time to DL):
http://152.119.239.10/docimages/p64/138826.tif
as well another by a California attorney who is now getting into the mix:
http://152.119.239.10/docimages/p64/138967.tif
-Ben |
Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 9:30 am: | |
Greetings:
>Observe what you stick the fork into your sunny side up egg this morning. "This is your brain with a bike rack installed".
Oh geez, Martin. I don't think I'll ever look at breakfast the same again!
Maybe any South Florida owners are going to an(other) event this year? |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 8:36 am: | |
Doc,
you are right about that. The thing is that this is nothing that FNA condoles or wants to accomplish´. They are against that practise themselves.
If I could smoke in another $30-$50K I'd do that too. That is business. Fact is that the car had to be registered for them to resell higher. So there goes the sales tax and lux tax that is added to the original MSRP and another sales commission and bingo
But then there is smart people like yourself who do not participate in this game and buy Euros and save BIG bucks (even after having to replace the headlights at cost etc) |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 7:52 pm: | |
Martin
You say US dealers cannot charge above sticker.This is true for new cars with deposits on them.So how come just about every authorized F dealer has 360's with a few hundred miles on them (now Used) for 30-50k above sticker(for the Coupes) and soon a lot more for the spider??? Where do these "flipped cars" come from? I guess occasionally someone on the list cannot come up with the scratch.So why isn't the next guy on the list given the option to buy at sticker? You know why------greed! |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 8:15 am: | |
Frank makes a good point here. Shows how short minded they really are.
My question is, if the car does not move in Europe that it is readily available for less money why would Ferrari Italy not re-direct them to the US market. The answer is, they do not care who they sell them to.
FNA gets a quota of cars per month. Thoses, as we all know, are pre-sold for the next years. By flooding the market what would happen? The answer is: nothing! Prices will drop, but FNA or their dealers can not sell above sticker anyway, so where is their loss?
In fact I believe that there are more people that will drive Ferraris than there will be by holding the imports back. And yes, more parts sold by FNA, more money made and everybody profits.
DOT has its good sides but also its bad ones. You can make a car as safe as you want to but when you install a bike rack on the back of that safe car it becomes a hazzard. Ever wondered what is going to happen if you rear-end a car with a bike-rack installed? Observe what you stick the fork into your sunny side up egg this morning. "This is your brain with a bike rack installed". Where are the safety concerns here?
Sorry to divert from the real issue Thomas. |
www.ameristarcapitalwholesale.com (Ameristarcap)
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:40 pm: | |
Dear Gene,
I would respectfully have to disagree with you on this point, I believe the disappointment that many of us feel, and many more of you will feel when you know the facts, with FNA is fully justified, and I can see where you maybe confused so please let me point out some facts:
1. DOT did not create these sets of laws; it was Congress that drew up the legislation and past it into law.
2. When you are dealing with DOT you are automatically dealing in the realm of Vehicle safety and nothing else! This is supposed to be serious stuff; we are talking about the lives and highway safety concerns of millions upon millions of American here!! FNA had the opportunity and responsibility during the model year 1999 and 2000 petition to try to block importations if there were true safety concerns with the importation of these cars, and they had nothing to say then! Everyone knows that the 1999, 2000, and 2001 models are exactly the same regarding safety concerns, where was FNA for the last two years prior? The answer is simple: controlling the movements of 360 Spiders and Barchetta cars.
3. DOT is not the proper forum for any auto manufacture, especially one as revered as Ferrari, to use our government agency (and your tax dollars) to try to try to control the movements of cars that they have sold to private individuals under the guise of "auto safety". For you to suggest that "They are merely using it to their advantage, an appropriate business decision" is not serious on your part is it? It is like saying we condone the process and the results of the O.J. Simpson murder trial. Something as serious as auto safety need not be turned into a circus and that is what FNA is trying to do.
Now if there were no rules, I could certainly live with that, but in the "here and now" that we all have to currently live in there is no time for wishing that we had no regulations. We are able to bring these cars in on the thinnest of legislative thread, and even that is trying to be cut out from under us! |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:22 pm: | |
IMHO FNA may be cutting off it's nose in spite of it's face. Just think about it. The gray market euro-spec Ferraris converted for use in the U.S.A. have no warranty. Given the complex computer controlled nature of the new 360's and 550's engine/drivetrain system, any major repairs are still going to have to be done at an authorized FNA dealer at the owner's cost. With the proprietary software in the cars as well as the dealer only owned diagnostic equipment, no non-FNA authorized shop is going to be able to do much more than fluid changes on the newer production cars whether U.S. or euro spec. That's money a new euro-spec owner is going to have to spend at a FNA dealer that the new owner of a U.S.-spec will have done under warranty at no charge. Only after two years will both the U.S.-spec and euro-spec owners both be paying for such repairs. That being the case, FNA dealers stand to make a lot more money off of euro-spec owners than U.S.-spec owners. Think about it FNA ! If making more money is your ulitimate goal and what else could it be, open the flood gates and let all the non-U.S.-spec cars come in. It will be your dealers making all the money repairing and servicing them. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:22 pm: | |
IMHO FNA may be cutting off it's nose in spite of it's face. Just think about it. The gray market euro-spec Ferraris converted for use in the U.S.A. have no warranty. Given the complex computer controlled nature of the new 360's and 550's engine/drivetrain system, any major repairs are still going to have to be done at an authorized FNA dealer at the owner's cost. With the proprietary software in the cars as well as the dealer only owned diagnostic equipment, no non-FNA authorized shop is going to be able to do much more than fluid changes on the newer production cars whether U.S. or euro spec. That's money a new euro-spec owner is going to have to spend at a FNA dealer that the new owner of a U.S.-spec will have done under warranty at no charge. Only after two years will both the U.S.-spec and euro-spec owners both be paying for such repairs. That being the case, FNA dealers stand to make a lot more money off of euro-spec owners than U.S.-spec owners. Think about it FNA ! If making more money is your ulitimate goal and what else could it be, open the flood gates and let all the non-U.S.-spec cars come in. It will be your dealers making all the money repairing and servicing them. |
Gene B. Radcliffe - 308 GTS (Brcbank)
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:01 am: | |
I think your anger is misplaced. The villan is the DOT who created the rule, and Congress and the President who did not act to reverse it, not FNA. They are merely using it to their advantage, an appropriate business decision. If the rule were gone we would have true freedon and choice to import at will and as the market dictated and FNA would have no rule to use. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 7:09 pm: | |
I'd like to see a more general assault on and general relaxation DOT safety requirements. In a truely free society, one should have the option of deciding how much safety one is willing to pay for.
Devices pertaining to second parties such as child restraint, light height, and crush zones, may be a different matter. Bumpers on the other hand, really only protect against property damage under the most benign conditions. Is it really necessary to legislate repair cost differentials? Why can't the owner make this decision? Why couldn't a placard, permanently and prominently mounted, listing areas of non-compliance, be sufficient to warn prospective buyers of potential hazards?
Bill |
www.ameristarcapitalwholesale.com (Ameristarcap)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 6:11 pm: | |
Hello Bret,
I think what Rob is trying to say is "don't throughout our Ferrari babies with the dirty FNA bath water". Which I completely support.
But you do have a point Bret concerning this issue, because DOT will not have direct contact with Ferrari Italy on this matter, all such contacts with DOT go through the US importer, in this case FNA, and that means in this matter FNA is speaking for Ferrari Italy. But I have also heard that Ferrari Italy has reserved comment on this issue and has said nothing outside of FNA. So Ferrari Italy could be or could not be involved, and there are positives and negative for the factory no matter which side they take. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 6:11 pm: | |
FNA is just being greedy. Italy Ferrari would probably have higher revenues, because the European cars would move faster and at a higher price. I'm not sure the exact corporate structure, but Stuart is concerned with only FNA sales. He gets paid to do a good job within that scope. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 5:48 pm: | |
Aren't they pretty much one and the same though? I get how the market prices favor FNA prices for US model cars if they don't allow any importation. I thought that Maranello would benefit from the added revenue generated by FNA while they have a lock on the US market. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 2:46 pm: | |
I think the problem is FNA and not Maranello. Free trade helps Maranello, but not FNA. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 2:35 pm: | |
I can see how Ferrari wants to make money, most big business are good at screwing people over and how they want to keep the Ferrari name really exclusive, but the whole thing is B.S. plain and simple. If there was no importing of Ferraris back in the day there would be no Ferrari now, I mean look at the US's share of the market, what is it like 25%. If you read about their history though it is so like them to pull stuff like this. I just think it takes away from the company because for a real diehard aficionado they might like the purity of the cars in their original design as the euro cars are. I don't think that Ferrari should take this away from people and I think the DOT should die so we could bring over true unadulterated euro cars. It was in one of the Forza's I think about Phil Hill and one of the racing managers told him to watch his back because Maranello is a very dangerous place, it just goes to show you how somethings never change. |
www.ameristarcapitalwholesale.com (Ameristarcap)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 1:08 pm: | |
Helloooooooooo Ernesto,
With regards to the 550 door beam supports, the fact is that the petitioner "J.K. Technologies" forgot to mention in its original petition that some of the 550 model cars must have the door beams installed on them when they are converted, because they don't come installed from the factory, that is the issue here. Not the DARK cloud that FNA tried to put readers under in the A.W. article. In which case it is an easy retro fit of the part on a 550. On all 360 models the door beams are installed at the factory.
Also JKT corrected the petition in a later communication to DOT, please see my other posting, as I will have a link to this document.
Ernesto thanks for posting the Auto Week article, that article is just the opening salvo to be written by Gritzinger on this matter, I hope he gets the time to do some real "investigative" reporting on this because there B. S. flying around on this subject and many of us would like the truth to come out from an independent source and blow the lid off this crap that is going on.
What is interesting to me is that if you read the entire 5 pages written by FNA to DOT, you will see that there are only 4 items (this takes up half a page of the 5 pages submitted) that are of concern by FNA, out of the 34 standards that have to be met. You will also see that JKT accurately answered those 4 concerns. |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 12:34 pm: | |
FROM AUTOWEEK MAGAZINE: (I thought it was particularly interesting, especially the side-impact doors on the 550).
09:47 Aug. 14, 2001)
Ferrari makes its case to block imports of gray market 360s and 550s
By BOB GRITZINGER
What makes a foreign Ferrari different from a U.S. model? It depends on whom you ask.
Importers of so-called gray market Ferraris say the expensive supercars today are �world cars� built for a global marketplace. They say a Ferrari intended for sale outside the States is capable of meeting, with only a handful of modifications, tougher U.S. safety and emissions standards.
�I would think there is no reason a European car can�t be imported to the U.S.,� said •••• Fritz, who�s been bringing in gray market cars for 25 years through his company, Amerispec, in Danbury, Connecticut.
In the past, Ferrari hasn�t taken issue with gray market importers. The company filed only limited objections and almost looked the other way as European-specification cars have been brought into the States and �federalized� for crash safety and emissions standards.
All that changed in late June when Ferrari took the unprecedented step of asking the U.S. Department of Transportation to halt importation of 2001 model Ferrari 360 Modenas and 550 Maranellos until the company could prepare its objections. On Aug. 10, the final day for public comment on the issue, Ferrari filed a six-page response�with promises of reams of additional technical documentation to follow�stating gray market imports differ from their U.S. counterparts in hundreds of ways and cannot be readily modified to meet U.S. requirements. In effect, for the first time ever, Ferrari is asking the federal government to deny the importation of Ferraris not originally intended for the United States.
David Wertheim, vice president and general counsel for Ferrari North America, said the petition filed with the DOT states that Ferrari believes 234 parts, with a suggested retail price of $56,584, are required to bring a non-U.S. 2001 model 550 into federal compliance. A total of 306 parts with a retail cost of $68,021 are needed for a 2001 model 360, Ferrari states.
As a result, Ferrari has serious reservations whether modifications to non-U.S.-spec cars proposed by importers are sufficient to meet U.S. safety and emissions requirements, said Stuart Robinson, president and CEO of Ferrari North America. �[Ferraris] are not world cars�they are substantially different from U.S. cars,� said Robinson.
Wertheim admitted all the parts listed don�t specifically relate to safety or emissions, but are included on U.S.-spec cars that Ferrari crash-tested to meet federal standards. As such, Ferrari believes the parts must be included to make a gray market car comparable to a U.S. model.
�It�s impossible to say that these cars are substantially similar with hundreds of different parts,� said Wertheim.
Ferrari also takes issue with some of the proposed modi-fications. For instance, the importer�s petition states doors on all 550s are identical, but doors on non-U.S. cars aren�t fitted with side-impact protection bars, Wertheim said.
�We have some serious safety concerns, and ultimately at the end of the day, it�s the Ferrari name that�s on the car,� said Wertheim.
Some importers, alarmed at the ugly turn of events foreshadowed by Ferrari�s request for an extension of the public comment period in June, have been feverishly working to fight any limits on the free market flow of Ferraris. In a letter to his congressman, Doug Pirrone, president of Berlinetta Motorcars in Huntington, New York, alleges Ferrari�s goal is �to control the market, insure a monopoly, fix the prices and eliminate all competition.� Pirrone�s letter alleges Ferrari obtained a court order banning the importation of non-U.S.-spec Ferraris, and that Ferrari planned to say aluminum used to produce European and U.S. 360 chassis differed, making the European model unsafe for U.S. use.
There is no court order, and Ferrari is not making a claim that chassis differ between European and U.S.-market 360s. Still, Pirrone�s concerns about Ferrari�s attempts to limit free trade have some foundation. Earlier this year, the company informed potential buyers of its limited-production $258,000 550 Barchetta they would be required to sign an agreement prohibiting them from reselling the car to anyone but their Ferrari dealer within the first year of ownership. Ferrari said the contracts, which prevent buyers from reselling their cars at a profit on the open market, are intended to prevent speculation in the exotic cars.
For Pirrone, �it�s just one abuse after another.�
Gary Roberts, a Costa Mesa, California-based importer, said with the gray market on the wane, Ferrari�s �control freaks� ought to cooperate with importers and let the free market take care of itself. �It�s bad show from Ferrari.�
But Ferrari�s Robinson said free trade isn�t the paramount issue�protecting Ferrari and its customers is what�s important. He said gray imports have no effect on profits for Ferrari�s U.S. dealers, but do affect the company�s reputation. �This is not a covert way of addressing gray importers,� he said. �This is just a way of informing the proper authorities of our concerns.� |
www.ameristarcapitalwholesale.com (Ameristarcap)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:23 am: | |
Hello Gents,
Hello Ben thanks for getting on this topic!! It is very very important!!!!
I am so sorry that I haven't been able to chime in on this one so far; I have been right in the middle of it all. Not that I have wanted to be, but I have become a part time lobbyist for this cause, which is now simply put, a fight to maintain your right as an American to import a car under the Federal Law guidelines provided by Congress and enforced by DOT.
In a nut shell the fight is this: Americans want the freedom and private property right to bring a car, originally destine for use in some other country other than the US, and bring it into the US. A document requesting the right to do so, for a particular car and model year, is filed with DOT. Dot reviews the document, accepts comment from FNA, and then in this situation plays the referee between FNA and the American people; DOT must try to decide who is right and who is wrong. After the decision is made, then we know if we are free to import or not.
Don't we have enough limits on what we can or can not do in this world already, without the paternalistic heavy handed FNA trying to pull a fast one on us by using a taxpayer funded American Governmental Agency as their sales and distribution tool? Shame on you Ferrari, this is really bad form. For FNA to shoot up to DOT a rebuttle document that is 5 pages long and only half of one page is focused on the issue is telling!
David Schirmer, you have very good ears my friend, what you heard at the Concorso Italiano is 100% correct!!! It was the CEO of Fiat United Kingdom standing on the runway, microphone in hand, with Piero Ferrari(Fiat owns Ferrari, in case you didn't already know) that pronounced to thousands of people at the event that the cars being produced and sold in Europe have to meet GREATER emissions standards than the ones in the USA, I not only fell out of my chair, but as I regained my composure, I almost began to rise and salute him! Finally the TRUTH!!!!!!
I will try to frame this in another posting because the implications are staggering, I am all most finished it, it is important that people know that the cars that we are all so touched by are one thing, and must be separated from B.S. and out right deceit that goes on behind the scenes!
This is a call to arms for those of you that don't wish to give away some more rights and freedoms. We need your help!!!! Please call your congress person and Senator, and protest over the phone and in a one page letter, I will be happy to post it at the DOT office for you. Please email or call me with any questions.
Thanks
Thomas |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:36 am: | |
Frank -
Funny isn't it that a '91 - 348 has ODB 2? (not sure about the 1990 intro year)
-Ben |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:17 am: | |
Leo, the reason a euro 1995 355 can not be imported is because it did not have OBD as required by U.S. law. From 1996 up the 355 had OBD. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 10:12 am: | |
Yeah, where is the difference between the 2000 and the 2001 ? The VIN has changed, maybe that is a safety hazard!
The cross bars on the 355 are missing. As far as I know they were added in the 98 also in europe to conform with the EURO safety standards.
The safety standards are not strickter. There is different crashes that the car has to withstand. Angle of impact, speed etc. They are just different for the homologation process for Europe and the US, that is all. I'd say the standards are pretty much the same.E urope follows US guidelines pretty much.
Hom much does it cost if someone backs into my bumper in the parking lot? There is $ 1500 repainting and if the bumper is cracked another $ 5,000. But then if the car was high enough it may damage the valace and the hood and the fenders, depending on impact at 5mph. So a repair can easily exeed $ 10,000 just in parts....and then the thousands I have to spend in legal fees because I killed that A**hole right there in that parking lot! |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 9:28 am: | |
More docs have been added today. I found #19 and #21 of particular interest. Basically the DOT wants to know "what's the difference between 2000 and 2001 360/550's?". What would make the 2001 not as simple to make legal as the 2000 they already have done.
MartinJW, MD - you are welcome, just trying to share something with the group.
-Ben |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:24 pm: | |
I seem to remember one of the presenters at Concorso Italiano mentioning that the European automobile standards are now stricter than the US standards. I agree with Jim E's statement that it would make sense to produce a car that meets world standards rather than different cars for localized standards. I sure don't understand the car importing business. |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:54 pm: | |
Thanks Ben
Makes for interesting reading.The arrogance of FNA is nauseating.If they tee off enough people it will backfire on them especially if this market continues down.
Wait until they try to sell those Masserati's next yr. |
Leo (Speedracer)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 9:11 pm: | |
Ferrari NA and all other car companies in the US produce bumpers to meet the minimum safety standards in the US. ..the F355 ,from the horses mouth of course it quite different in many respects...or I would have bought a 95 for 60 grand..gts from Italy and shipped it over.
Leonard. |
HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 9:00 pm: | |
YO LEO
US MADE CAR BUMPERS ARE NOT UP TO US BUMPER STANDARDS. JUST BACK YOUR SUV INTO A TREE, A POLE ANOTHER CAR WHATEVER AT 5 MPH AND SEE WHAT THAT COST YOU. |
Leo (Speedracer)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 8:40 pm: | |
Actually I know that on the 355 the doors dont have the horizontal cross member support in it for US standards, the front and rear bumpers are not up to US safety standard bumpers, and the emissions are totaly different also. This is from a friend of mine who works for Ferrari NA. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 2:35 pm: | |
I have heard that they are exactly alike. There is no difference whatsoever. This about the new cars. 360 and 355 and 550. Just a bunch of bull if you ask me.
I bought mayn parts for my 30K service in Germany. There may be other countires to buy them cheap in. I wanted to check in Prague but the dealer was closed when I got there.
I am so sick of this. That was one of the reasons I got out of the car biz. Too much fighting. If they think they are losing market share with the FNA imports, just divert the cars that are delivere d overseas to the US market and sell them here for sticker. That in itself is a rip-off but at least it is not that people have to wait 3 years for their cars and get offered grey-market imports for less. |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:55 am: | |
Do we really believe that Ferrari produces cars that are significantly different for ANY market? Simple production management would dictate that the cars be as similar as possible worldwide. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:40 am: | |
I just talked to Thomas (Ameristar Capital Wholesale) last night and he's been up to his neck in paper work and proceedings. He's going to post some messages soon with more information. It's simple as FNA loosing sales because of imports. The only impact to the big Ferrari is the market in USA is better and they ask a higher price. This negatively effects all of us, unless you work for Ferrari NA. More insight soon. What happened to a free market system? |
Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:27 am: | |
What exactly is FNA's problem here, anyway? According to their own documents, they state that conformance to US standards would cost owners between $50,000+ and $68,000. I don't believe that for a second, but by that line of reasoning, they would stand to make a lot of money on parts for cars that Ferrari had already sold. What is really going on? The whole parts pricing thing with Ferrari has started to annoy me anyway ... |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 9:49 am: | |
Where do you buy parts overseas? |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 5:57 am: | |
I am not able to opne these pages from my house but I can imagine what is in these pages. Having had an automotive import company myself back when the Dollar was favorable to import cars the other way we had to deal with manufacturers and their Importers as well. I had two law suits from Toyota and Mitsubishi for importing their cars. They were pissed that I actualy way able to get the cars when their own customers had to wait 2 years for the MR2 or could not even get the 3000GT VR4.
Schoolyard bullies!
Bad image for FNA. That is why I say screw them when it comes to parts. Becasue of the Dollar they make sooooooo much more money right now and are not reducing prices. Neither on their cars. This would be a good time to rethink the pricing policy downwards. Pftthh, that never happens!
Buy your parts overseas! |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 1:42 am: | |
I don't know how many of you are aware of the fight that is currently keeping Euro/Grey Market (2001 model year) Ferrari's out of the hands of their USA buyers. There is quite and extensive library of paperwork on this from both sides including letters from the Registered Importers, FNA, as well as Ameristar Capital Wholesale (one of our sponsors here). There are currently more than 15 original documents online. Instead of putting up links to each document, go to the following link:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/
in the center of the page in the box next to docket number type "9630" (without the quotes).
That will bring up all of the records for this issue, the most interesting ones are from JK Technologies and FNA.
Just thought I'd share and open the floor for comments.
-Ben |
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