| Author | Message | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 334 Registered: 4-2003 |
Good point. Drive these dang cars. We are not talking limited production, rare F-Cars here. Enjoy, I am. | ||
| E. Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
New member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2003 |
Thanks for the help and advice. I am one of those people who feels that Ferraris are meant to be driven. While I am not going to be taking it two miles to the grocery and back, I would have no problem hopping in on a Wednesday afternoon and running it up to the mountains and back for two hours. And it will almost definitely see the track from time to time. No racing, but definitely a little track time. It's just too well designed of a car to not use it in the environment for which it was made. I am early in the search still but your advice thus far has been priceless. | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 285 Registered: 5-2002 |
and then there are those car lovers who have several cars and have heated and airconditioned garages. Yes one of my cars is 30 years old and has only 17,000 on it. It runs great and I love it. And I don't care who believes the mileage and who doesn't. | ||
| Kuzi (Kzma)
Junior Member Username: Kzma Post Number: 173 Registered: 3-2003 |
I agree with David.......in 95' I had a 355B and never drove it (partly because it was always on a flatbed to the dealer  ). No really!! But I still never drove it even when things were fine with it...........................This past 6 months has reignited my flame for these autos and now I drive the hell out of them. | ||
| Norman Hartley (32storm)
New member Username: 32storm Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2003 |
Sorry, but I'm one of those owners that doesn't drive their car that much. Last year, i think I drove it 500 miles. A normal year is 1K. Car doesn't see rain, and yes I know it won't melt from the rain. However, I am a firm believer in running the car and driving it every few weeks, except during the winter. Then, it just gets started and moved to keep things moving so to speak. i have a 1984 that I purchased in 1995, and it only has aprox. 31K on it. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 846 Registered: 5-2001 |
Henry, I agree most owners fret way too much over the mileage thing, esp. people new to Ferraris. Most first time owners get a low mileage car, and then never drive it. Usually, if they trade up, and get another one, they start to loosen up, and drive them more.... | ||
| Chris Burch (Cyb)
New member Username: Cyb Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2003 |
I purchased a 532mi, F40 last August. At 1,500 miles, no problems whatsoever. Then had the major, F. mechanic said it was as new after looking "inside" of several components. Since the major I've driven it 800 more miles, still no problems. Wouldn't something have surfaced by now if storage was a problem? It had been stored/displayed in a living room up until last August. Could the fact that the car was stored inside w/ heat and air the reason it continues to drive/show as new? I can telly you this much however, it will be driven every nice weekend and then some. | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 344 Registered: 9-2001 |
Henryk--how damn frustrating! I'll probably run into the same nonsense whenever I decide to sell my car, because the milage is increasing in leaps and bounds--and I love it! I've put around 6500 miles on my car since purchasing it last June--and I couldn't drive it from Dec--March because of the weather. Anyhow--I agree, these cars are meant to be driven and the more you drive them, the better they run. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 768 Registered: 8-2001 |
Adrian: Thanks, but like I said.....not for sale! I'm enjoying both of them it too much. | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2003 |
Henryk, which of your Ferraris were you trying to sell? I am still in the market for a second car, and am trying to learn as much as possible. I see that you have a TR and a BB. What were the facts on the car you were selling? Any info you can privide would be very helpful. Thanks! | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 767 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doc: I had all the records. The car was a local one with only two owners, and serviced by the same dealer that it was bought new from.......how much better does it get? Still, I couldn't get past the mileage thing with the buyers. Of the 15, or so that called, not ONE came to see the car. They only wanted to negotiate a STEAL price (because of the miles) before coming to see the car. My impression is that owners who drive the car 500-1,000 miles a year shouldn't own a Ferrari....they are too paranoid in putting miles on the car.....they rather look at it in the garage......must be VERY boring!!!!!! The only excuse would be having a job that keeps one away from home, or, having multiple Ferraris. To the rest; Buy something else.....you don't desrve a Ferrari!!!!! | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 343 Registered: 9-2001 |
This milage thing with Ferraris aggravates me to no end ! Ferrari motors are just as ,or more, robust than any other engine if properly maintained. There is absolutely no reason why one should assess milage on a Ferrari any differently than anything else. After having looked at 308's for the past 2 yrs I don't believe the milage on at least half of the cars. The speedos are easy to disconnect and easy to roll back and , imo, I believe that it's done frequently. I looked at one car, which I didn't buy, and , one year later, saw it on ebay with 12 k miles less on the speedo! My opinion is to largely ignore milage, w/i reason, and concentrate on documentation, real inspection results, and performance. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 766 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thomas: You have just proven my point!!!!! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 327 Registered: 4-2003 |
"High" mileage is a relative term. For an F-car I think the average is 2K miles per year. I saw a 1999 Spyder the other day. Immaculate with 42K on the clock. Ran great, but 42K in 4 years. Yikes. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 764 Registered: 8-2001 |
I would consider David's situation an exception to the rule. While most people, and I, agree that driven, and maintained cars are better than garage queens for the most part, the determining issues STILL are, to prospective buyers the following three; MILEAGE, MILEAGE, MILEAGE......not necessarily in that order! While trying to sell a Ferrari, I decided to take it off the market, because, ALL the prospective buyers where turned off by the mileage.....they would buy it ONLY if they could steal it. They did NOT believe that nothing was wrong with the car, or that it didn't need some major repair. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 837 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually Charles, there a lot's of F-car owners out there, happy to just "own" a Ferrari and go out to the garage and look at it. Crazy, but true. Yes, there are creeps out there that unhook that little plug to the speedo sender too. I bought a 308 a few years ago from a friend's car collection. He had it for 12 years and put 7k miles on it. This is a 78 308 GTS with a total of 15k miles! Perfect cosmetics, stored in a heated garage with the rest of his cars, and started up and driven by his mechanic once per month. Needed a major service, and I replaced all the belts and hoses, but my mechanic was surprised at how good everything looked under the hood. I guess the point is storage conditions have to play a part in this. He had seen other low mileage cars that had lot's of problems with rotted rubber peices, rust and leaky seals. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 526 Registered: 11-2002 |
I would be suspicious of any older car with really low mileage. Don't you guys think it is a bit unrealistic to think the mileage on some of these so called low mileage cars is true miles? When I was looking to buy I saw a bunch of 90 348's that had less than 20K miles on them. That is just a little over 1500 miles a year. No one in there right mind would own a car that fun to drive and only put 1500 miles a year on it. I would bet most of the low mileage cars have had the speedo sensor disconected which would make me wonder what else the seller is trying to hide. I felt a lot better about the one I got with 45K miles on it because it just seemed more realistic. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 687 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think the best are those which are used reasonably frequently (for an F car) say once every week or two, where the journeys are not short, good operating temps are all reached, condensation doesn't build in the exhausts. They are stored in good environments. This can be achieved along with the mileage being kept reasonably low for the year. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 686 Registered: 4-2002 |
"Seems like the more previous owners a Ferrari has the better" Couldn't disagree more strongly, more likely to be a shed in my experience of looking for good used cars In my experience the No. owners is almost directly proportional to how bad the vehicles condition, problems stack up with owners. Occassionaly someonew will buy and sink thousands into it to pull it back to somewhere near good again but thats not the norm 'in my experience' Sorry chaps but if its got more than about 4 owners it would take some major bull on the phone to get me out to view it (the exception of course has to be ultra'rare vehicles where there isn't a great deal of choice) | ||
| David McAlexander (Stuttgartdavid)
New member Username: Stuttgartdavid Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2003 |
I'm with P. Thomas on this one. Corrosion from sitting kills - not just the powertrain, either, but every system on the car. Letting a cooling system sit idle really cuts down on its service life by allowing internal corrosion to build up from the coolant locally breaking down, yet remaining in continuous contact with the same bit of metal. Once finally fired up, that corrosion product breaks off and is pumped around to clog radiators and coolant passages like a bad blood clot. Same for brake system internals. Even (or especially!)electrical components break down from non-use - contacts corrode on everything from window switches to airconditioners to fuseboxes if not regularly cycled. I used to be the powerplants and airframes division officer for a US Navy E-2c squadron (go VAW-116 Sunkings!). We had birds that ranged in age from brand new to almost as old as I was, and their mission reliability was invariably dictated by how much and how recently they had been used. It was alway the hanger queens which had been sitting a long time that gave us fits, even if they were almost new birds - hydraulic leaks and tits up electrics. It was a viscious cycle -an old airframe that flew regularly, even if it was a really high time bird, was guaranteed to be more reliable, so it stayed up and got flown more, thus keeping it in good shape. The low hour birds that had been sitting usually gave problems, so they sat some more awaiting maintenance, and thus tended to continue having more problems keeping them down, even though we spent more time fixing them than their heavily used counterparts. In summary: Use it or lose it! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 309 Registered: 4-2003 |
Good point. However it is not just the seals. Even from humidity, think of how much your cylinder walls are prone to condensation/rust, etc. | ||
| Giang Hoang (Spidersense)
New member Username: Spidersense Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2002 |
Seems like the more previous owners a Ferrari has the better. Purchasers tend to have the cars inspected before buying, and serviced after buying. Tracked cars get even more attention. Anywho, from everything I've researched, the more the car is driven, the better. I mean, drivers are better than garage queens. I never let my car sit and I have all service records to show she didn't sit for extended periods of time. I actually have enough data points to get a good graph of the mileage (slope increased many folds after i took ownership). Many people like low mileage cars and some of those folks thinks a 16 year old car with 1000 miles won't need servicing for another 30K miles - scarey. A low mileage car would have nicer hard components (body, door hinges etc), but the soft components may need replacing (seals, gaskets, bushings). If I remember correctly, the magic number is at least 3500 miles a year. I wouldn't let the car sit for more than 2 weeks. James | ||
| PeterS (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 549 Registered: 1-2003 |
Keith nailed it! | ||
| Keith Maxwell (Keith_maxwell)
New member Username: Keith_maxwell Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2003 |
I've owned a lot of old cars, the only two factors that seems to affect reliability are original build quality and maintenance. If a quality car has been driven and maintained, it's almost always likely to be more reliable than any others - problems get sorted out. If it's anything but a quality car, or anything short of well maintained it doesn't matter if it has 2000 or 70,000 miles on it. | ||
| E. Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
New member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is there a good rule of thumb regarding mileage on pre-owned F-cars relative to reliability? My only comparable experience (at least that I consider comparable) is with Ducatis and, in my experience, driving/riding it regularly (at least 3 times a week, if not more) keeps things working smoothly and properly. Is this going to be similar with Ferraris? I understand that having the service records and history on the car is of paramount importance but assuming that everything else checks out, should I be more wary of garage queens or daily drivers? My philosophy leans toward getting a car that has been used more on the daily driver side of the spectrum but I would like input from experienced individuals. Also, what about the kinds of miles/duration of drives, etc.? Thanks in advance. |